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Post by Merge on Jul 19, 2016 16:55:17 GMT
Since when is "your word is your bond" a common phrase?? I've been hearing various people say that particular phrase my whole life. Especially if you want to make it first person 'my word is my bond' was very common. It in fact has roots in the Old Testament. It's sorta common in my parents/grandparents generation. I still think 'someone' should get an F/zero on that assignment but the phrase your word is your bond is a pretty old fashioned phrase. It not just those 5 words though, it's those 5 words in practically the exact same context as the other speech. Fascinating. Various online dictionaries say that it's an old-fashioned or formal phrase. Urban Dictionary has a listing that says: It's a maritime brokers' motto. Since 1801 the motto of the London Stock Exchange (in Latin "dictum meum pactum") where bargains are made with no exchange of documents and no written pledges being given. "My word is my bond" as brokers say (or "my word, my bond!")
And apparently the shortened version, "word is bond," is prevalent in hip hop music. I had no idea. Word is Bond
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Post by secondlife on Jul 19, 2016 17:02:39 GMT
Since when is "your word is your bond" a common phrase?? I think that is a very common phrase. Common words and phrases can still be part of plagiarized work. The question when it comes to plagiarism is not are the words you've strung together different or unusual. The question is are the words you've used words that were previously strung together in precisely that way by someone else before - and if they were and you reuse them without attribution, even changing one or two of them, that's plagiarism.
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Post by gar on Jul 19, 2016 17:25:47 GMT
I've been hearing various people say that particular phrase my whole life. Especially if you want to make it first person 'my word is my bond' was very common. It in fact has roots in the Old Testament. It's sorta common in my parents/grandparents generation. I still think 'someone' should get an F/zero on that assignment but the phrase your word is your bond is a pretty old fashioned phrase. It not just those 5 words though, it's those 5 words in practically the exact same context as the other speech. Fascinating. Various online dictionaries say that it's an old-fashioned or formal phrase. Urban Dictionary has a listing that says: It's a maritime brokers' motto. Since 1801 the motto of the London Stock Exchange (in Latin "dictum meum pactum") where bargains are made with no exchange of documents and no written pledges being given. "My word is my bond" as brokers say (or "my word, my bond!")
And apparently the shortened version, "word is bond," is prevalent in hip hop music. I had no idea. Word is BondYou beat me to it  It's certainly a word with history and has been around for centuries.
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Post by silverlining on Jul 19, 2016 18:18:06 GMT
I teach English composition to non-native speakers of English. This is definitely plagiarism. To answer Becky's question though about how to re-write Michelle Obama's words...the answer is you don't rewrite someone else's ideas, unless you are going to acknowledge them.
Now, if a student was really struggling about what to write, I might ask a few questions such as "Where did you grow up? Tell me a little bit about your parents. What values did they teach you? or What kind of person did they want you to be? Great! Those are good ideas! Now write them down just like you were talking to me."
The crazy thing about this speech though is that it was Melania Trump's opportunity to help the voters to get to know HER. To copy someone else's description of their upbringing and values is quite odd. It could have been her own heartfelt story about HER upbringing and HER core beliefs, told to millions of viewers. We could have been talking today about what a strong and thoughtful woman she is, and about the things we learned about her background.
She had no reason to begin with someone else's speech.
I don't blame her so much as I see this as a huge mistake on the part of Donald Trump and his campaign staff. They either gave her an assignment with absolutely no direction about how to do it, and did not review it or have a speechwriter assist her, or worse yet, they had a speechwriter write it who is clueless about plagiarism and about the tremendous value a well-written speech could have had. Either way it's just dumb, and makes me question the judgement of Trump and the people he hires.
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Post by elaine on Jul 19, 2016 20:14:17 GMT
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Post by crimsoncat05 on Jul 19, 2016 20:16:02 GMT
^^^ thank you for posting that, elaine- intuitively I KNEW the odds of putting that many of the same phrases and words together purely by chance is just not possible, but this shows mathematically just HOW not possible.
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Post by elaine on Jul 19, 2016 20:30:47 GMT
^^^ thank you for posting that, elaine - intuitively I KNEW the odds of putting that many of the same phrases and words together purely by chance is just not possible, but this shows mathematically just HOW not possible. When I first read this thread this morning, I knew I had learned the odds in a faculty training on plagiarism, but didn't have time to look for a source until now. For example, there is a string of two sentences in Melania's speech that have a whopping 22 identical words - with no breaks or even small differences - which the odds of that happening accidentally (I.e. Not plagiarizing) is mathematically as close to impossible as you can get.' I am guessing that mathematically the odds of Lauren voting for Hillary are MUCH greater than that whoever wrote Melania's speech did not plagiarize from Michele Obama's speech.
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Post by mzza111 on Jul 19, 2016 20:39:29 GMT
I know the controversy over Melania's speech and the other thread, but I'm curious how you guys would rewrite these same concepts without plagiarizing.
How 'dat? Huh, I find it fascinating that you "rewrote" the original and not Melania's plagiarized speech.
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Post by mzza111 on Jul 19, 2016 20:40:34 GMT
Since when is "your word is your bond" a common phrase?? I think that is a very common phrase. Bwhaaaa, no.
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~Lauren~
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,876
Jun 26, 2014 3:33:18 GMT
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Post by ~Lauren~ on Jul 19, 2016 20:45:08 GMT
I really am surprised that people do not feel my word is my bond is a common usage
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Post by missmiss on Jul 19, 2016 20:51:28 GMT
I really am surprised that people do not feel my word is my bond is a common usage I know of the phrase but commonly used? I only hear it I am watching a movie. I never have had someone tell that to me face to face.
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Post by keesha on Jul 19, 2016 20:54:36 GMT
I can't help but think it's a win-win for them and wouldn't be surprised if they made the decision to use the speech after someone pointed out the similarities. They know how to use the publicity machine and love to get people riled up. DT has always shown us who he is. I guess it's more difficult to swallow now that there is an actual possibility he could be our president.
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Post by Zee on Jul 19, 2016 20:59:12 GMT
So no public figure can talk about the way they were raised ever again without cries of "plagiarism?" Are you purposely ignoring the complete lifting of entire sentence structures, not to mention words and phrases? I can guarantee you, I could write a speech talking about my core values without it sounding even remotely like either of the speeches you quoted. You're being a little dense.
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Post by whopea on Jul 19, 2016 21:00:14 GMT
I just can't get over certain people essentially saying "eh, no biggie". Of course if it was Hillary or Michelle Obama who had done this, they would be screaming their fool heads off with criticism. Smdh. I think the speech writer should be fired but I don't think this is a big deal considering the many other important things going on in our world -- the assassination of police officers, terror attacks in France, an attempted coup in Turkey, etc. To focus on such an insignificant issue is absurd to me. And yeah, Hillary hasn't ever lied or tried to hide anything, has she?
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MizIndependent
Drama Llama

Quit your bullpoop.
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Jun 25, 2014 19:43:16 GMT
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Post by MizIndependent on Jul 19, 2016 21:12:14 GMT
Huh, I find it fascinating that you "rewrote" the original and not Melania's plagiarized speech. I understood the question to be "how would you guys rewrite these same concepts without plagiarizing?" Since Michelle's speech is the original, seems like that was the one to be rewritten, not Melania's. Truth is, it was nothing but laziness on the part of the speech writer. And if Melania was the one to write it, she sure as hell should've had it properly edited. Schools run writing assignments through special software to detect plagiarizing, it should have been a literal no-brainer from Trump's campagin to do the same for this.
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Deleted
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Aug 18, 2025 19:43:32 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2016 21:12:33 GMT
I really am surprised that people do not feel my word is my bond is a common usage I know of the phrase but commonly used? I only hear it I am watching a movie. I never have had someone tell that to me face to face. I suppose it depends on what you do, in large part. Lauren in an attorney and I work in banking, and I would wager in both of those fields we are more likely to hear it than most other people (like when our older customers don't want to sign loan documents because their word is their bond and we shouldn't need any stinkin' paper  ). So to me, it is a common usage phrase, but I imagine for a lot of people, it's not.
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Deleted
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Aug 18, 2025 19:43:32 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2016 21:12:45 GMT
I just can't get over certain people essentially saying "eh, no biggie". Of course if it was Hillary or Michelle Obama who had done this, they would be screaming their fool heads off with criticism. Smdh. I think the speech writer should be fired but I don't think this is a big deal considering the many other important things going on in our world -- the assassination of police officers, terror attacks in France, an attempted coup in Turkey, etc. To focus on such an insignificant issue is absurd to me. And yeah, Hillary hasn't ever lied or tried to hide anything, has she? Yes, I'm absolutely sure that you would find this "insignificant" had Hillary done this..... This thread isn't about Hillary though....start your own Hillary bashing thread.
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Post by Delta Dawn on Jul 19, 2016 21:15:21 GMT
I read about some idiot on Facebook wanting to charge Melania Trump with plagiarism and honestly while I hate Trump, wanting to charge her with it? What science fiction novel did that weird come out of? It's not a university course where you get expelled. You can't stop her from being Donald's wife. I didn't scream at the computer, but I did in my head.
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Post by elaine on Jul 19, 2016 21:16:46 GMT
I just can't get over certain people essentially saying "eh, no biggie". Of course if it was Hillary or Michelle Obama who had done this, they would be screaming their fool heads off with criticism. Smdh. I think the speech writer should be fired but I don't think this is a big deal considering the many other important things going on in our world -- the assassination of police officers, terror attacks in France, an attempted coup in Turkey, etc. To focus on such an insignificant issue is absurd to me. And yeah, Hillary hasn't ever lied or tried to hide anything, has she? Melania plagiarizing = give her a pass, there are so many more horrific things going on in the world Hillary emails = there is no thread where it is not appropriate to bring this up and discuss it, even in an ironic hand slapping post bemoaning discussing Melania's plagiarism because there are so many more important horrific things going on in the world. (A post which wins most unintentially ironic post of the week) Pence voting for Iraq War - simple mistake, he gets a pass Hillary voting for Iraq War - gross ineptitude that proves she shouldn't be president At least there is consistency in the double-standard.
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Post by whopea on Jul 19, 2016 21:28:05 GMT
I think the speech writer should be fired but I don't think this is a big deal considering the many other important things going on in our world -- the assassination of police officers, terror attacks in France, an attempted coup in Turkey, etc. To focus on such an insignificant issue is absurd to me. And yeah, Hillary hasn't ever lied or tried to hide anything, has she? Melania plagiarizing = give her a pass, there are so many more horrific things going on in the world Hillary emails = there is no thread where it is not appropriate to bring this up and discuss it, even in an ironic hand slapping post bemoaning discussing Melania's plagiarism because there are so many more important horrific things going on in the world. (A post which wins most unintentially ironic post of the week) Pence voting for Iraq War - simple mistake, he gets a pass Hillary voting for Iraq War - gross ineptitude that proves she shouldn't be president At least there is consistency in the double-standard. The difference between Melania's plagiarism and Hillary's emails are vastly different IMO. One is potentially a first lady who has no government service and the other wants to be President and has three decades in government service. The second is that Melania lifted a paragraph from another speech. Hillary exposed classified information to our enemies and lied about it. No magnitude of difference there. As far as the Iraq war, I've never criticized Hillary for her vote because I think she was correct. Her gross ineptitude that proves she shouldn't be president is found in multiple other places.
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Post by whopea on Jul 19, 2016 21:31:34 GMT
I think the speech writer should be fired but I don't think this is a big deal considering the many other important things going on in our world -- the assassination of police officers, terror attacks in France, an attempted coup in Turkey, etc. To focus on such an insignificant issue is absurd to me. And yeah, Hillary hasn't ever lied or tried to hide anything, has she? Yes, I'm absolutely sure that you would find this "insignificant" had Hillary done this..... This thread isn't about Hillary though....start your own Hillary bashing thread. Truthfully, plagiarizing a speech would be at the bottom of the list of the things that I think disqualify Hillary from office, so yeah, in the grand scheme of life, I would find it insignificant. (Michelle too for the record)
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Post by elaine on Jul 19, 2016 21:38:53 GMT
Melania plagiarizing = give her a pass, there are so many more horrific things going on in the world Hillary emails = there is no thread where it is not appropriate to bring this up and discuss it, even in an ironic hand slapping post bemoaning discussing Melania's plagiarism because there are so many more important horrific things going on in the world. (A post which wins most unintentially ironic post of the week) Pence voting for Iraq War - simple mistake, he gets a pass Hillary voting for Iraq War - gross ineptitude that proves she shouldn't be president At least there is consistency in the double-standard. The difference between Melania's plagiarism and Hillary's emails are vastly different IMO. One is potentially a first lady who has no government service and the other wants to be President and has three decades in government service. The second is that Melania lifted a paragraph from another speech. Hillary exposed classified information to our enemies and lied about it. No magnitude of difference there. As far as the Iraq war, I've never criticized Hillary for her vote because I think she was correct. Her gross ineptitude that proves she shouldn't be president is found in multiple other places. Yeah, that's your interpretation of things, not supported at all by the FBI. But I'm sure you are far more qualified to make that judgement than they are.  Anyhow, it is a really poor attempt to deflect from the stupid hand slapping. It never fails, when there isn't a good defense for someone's actions, to jump right to "there are children dying of cancer/various list of current tragedies going on, so how shallow you all are to discuss this when there are so many more important things going on in the world." It is a very thread-worn deflection, and looks even sillier when you ignore your own admonishment and throw up something that also pales in comparison to police officers getting blown away and terrorist attacks. The second comparison comes directly from the 60 Minutes Interview and is what the person you are voting for says/does. Hence the comment about consistency - between the man and the followers.
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Post by whopea on Jul 19, 2016 21:47:51 GMT
The difference between Melania's plagiarism and Hillary's emails are vastly different IMO. One is potentially a first lady who has no government service and the other wants to be President and has three decades in government service. The second is that Melania lifted a paragraph from another speech. Hillary exposed classified information to our enemies and lied about it. No magnitude of difference there. As far as the Iraq war, I've never criticized Hillary for her vote because I think she was correct. Her gross ineptitude that proves she shouldn't be president is found in multiple other places. Yeah, that's your interpretation of things, not supported at all by the FBI. But I'm sure you are far more qualified to make that judgement than they are.  Anyhow, it is a really poor attempt to deflect from the stupid hand slapping. It never fails, when there isn't a good defense for someone's actions, to jump right to "there are children dying of cancer/various list of current tragedies going on, so how shallow you all are to discuss this when there are so many more important things going on in the world." It is a very thread-worn deflection, and looks even sillier when you ignore your own admonishment and throw up something that also pales in comparison to police officers getting blown away and terrorist attacks. The second comparison comes directly from the 60 Minutes Interview and is what the person you are voting for says/does. Hence the comment about consistency - between the man and the followers. I guess that you and I read a different report from the FBI then, but whatever. Presidential candidates and their vice president selections can't agree on every issue or they would be clones. I don't think Hillary agrees with Elizabeth Warren, Tim Kaine or other potential running mates. on. every. single. issue.
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oh yvonne
Prolific Pea
 
Posts: 8,111
Jun 26, 2014 0:45:23 GMT
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Post by oh yvonne on Jul 19, 2016 21:50:11 GMT
I teach English composition to non-native speakers of English. This is definitely plagiarism. To answer Becky's question though about how to re-write Michelle Obama's words...the answer is you don't rewrite someone else's ideas, unless you are going to acknowledge them. Now, if a student was really struggling about what to write, I might ask a few questions such as "Where did you grow up? Tell me a little bit about your parents. What values did they teach you? or What kind of person did they want you to be? Great! Those are good ideas! Now write them down just like you were talking to me." The crazy thing about this speech though is that it was Melania Trump's opportunity to help the voters to get to know HER. To copy someone else's description of their upbringing and values is quite odd. It could have been her own heartfelt story about HER upbringing and HER core beliefs, told to millions of viewers. We could have been talking today about what a strong and thoughtful woman she is, and about the things we learned about her background. She had no reason to begin with someone else's speech. I don't blame her so much as I see this as a huge mistake on the part of Donald Trump and his campaign staff. They either gave her an assignment with absolutely no direction about how to do it, and did not review it or have a speechwriter assist her, or worse yet, they had a speechwriter write it who is clueless about plagiarism and about the tremendous value a well-written speech could have had. Either way it's just dumb, and makes me question the judgement of Trump and the people he hires.Cosign! This campaign almost completely in shambles in my opinion. I don't expect much better to follow.
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Deleted
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Aug 18, 2025 19:43:32 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2016 22:05:35 GMT
I just can't get over certain people essentially saying "eh, no biggie". Of course if it was Hillary or Michelle Obama who had done this, they would be screaming their fool heads off with criticism. Smdh. Maybe, just maybe, after seeing Hillary get caught putting the country at risk, having the FBI lay out in detail how she violated laws, what lies she told us, state that someone else would be held accountable, but deciding they're not going to hold her accountable, watching her husband and the AG have a highly suspect private conversation days before that decision, and the Left saying the same "eh, no biggie" to all of that, at this point, those "certain people" could give a flip flying fig that Melania lifted phrases from Michelle's speech. Perspective. And no, that's not defending her, it's just stating the painfully obvious.
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Post by realm on Jul 19, 2016 22:12:02 GMT
It's really not that hard to express these concepts without using the same sentences- I mean I learned to do that way back when in school when doing research projects and you had to take the concept and reword/describe using your own words- use different words for the same concept, concepts in a different order- add/use different examples- really not difficult.
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Post by elaine on Jul 19, 2016 22:16:25 GMT
Yeah, that's your interpretation of things, not supported at all by the FBI. But I'm sure you are far more qualified to make that judgement than they are.  Anyhow, it is a really poor attempt to deflect from the stupid hand slapping. It never fails, when there isn't a good defense for someone's actions, to jump right to "there are children dying of cancer/various list of current tragedies going on, so how shallow you all are to discuss this when there are so many more important things going on in the world." It is a very thread-worn deflection, and looks even sillier when you ignore your own admonishment and throw up something that also pales in comparison to police officers getting blown away and terrorist attacks. The second comparison comes directly from the 60 Minutes Interview and is what the person you are voting for says/does. Hence the comment about consistency - between the man and the followers. I guess that you and I read a different report from the FBI then, but whatever. Presidential candidates and their vice president selections can't agree on every issue or they would be clones. I don't think Hillary agrees with Elizabeth Warren, Tim Kaine or other potential running mates. on. every. single. issue. Have you not been following the news? No one cares that the two disagree, but that Donald Trump, on national television clearly said that he views Pence's vote on the Iraq War as a past mistake that he doesn't care about, but that he views Hillary's same vote on the Iraq War as something he will never forgive and which makes her incompetent to serve as President. Two opposite standards for the exact same action by his running mate and Hllary. That he actually admitted to. On 60 Minutes.
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AmeliaBloomer
Drama Llama

Posts: 6,842
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Jun 26, 2014 5:01:45 GMT
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Post by AmeliaBloomer on Jul 19, 2016 22:37:49 GMT
Twice a year, millions of American university students sit down, read the essay prompt on their final exam, sigh heavily, and open their "blue books" to start writing.
If the (admittedly, spoonfed!) prompt for a mere one million of these students was...
"Pretend you are a prospective First Spouse. Write a paragraph explaining how the values with which you and your spouse were raised (working hard, following through on promises, respecting those with whom you disagree) affected your life...and how you would transmit this ethos to your children and all American children"
...I'm guessing there would be thousands of similar phrases in the million paragraphs, but no two would contain the same frequency and specificity of similarities like the two paragraphs we're discussing. (The chronological order of ideas would probably be uniform, but the prompt would drive that order. Mrs. Trump -or her writers - had no prompt.)
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Deleted
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Aug 18, 2025 19:43:32 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2016 22:54:51 GMT
Also, rewriting someone else's speech isn't the point, because that's still essentially stealing. This is supposed to be a wife talking about her background and her husband. Because we are different people, our minds work differently, our backgrounds and educations are different, and we all have things that make our lives and ourselves unique, it would be hard to come up with something so closely mimicking another person's work, without directly referring to it while writing one's own speech. I sure as hell hope we could all come up with some things to say that aren't retreads of someone else's experiences. If you started from scratch, it should be easy to come up with stories to share, lessons learned, etc. that would be phrased and ordered entirely differently. All of us have different specific experiences, even surrounding common values. ^^^^^^^^^ This! I would not EVEN care if she wrote a speech in her native language and had someone translate for her on stage. This was a golden opportunity to introduce herself to the public, share her story and perhaps HER visions for the next four years. Not only was it a canned speech, it was a COPIED canned speech! I am having a hard time seeing how Trump supporters can deny that. I swear I have had a serious conversation with myself wondering if I am being punked!?!?!?!?
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Post by whopea on Jul 19, 2016 22:55:54 GMT
I guess that you and I read a different report from the FBI then, but whatever. Presidential candidates and their vice president selections can't agree on every issue or they would be clones. I don't think Hillary agrees with Elizabeth Warren, Tim Kaine or other potential running mates. on. every. single. issue. Have you not been following the news? No one cares that the two disagree, but that Donald Trump, on national television clearly said that he views Pence's vote on the Iraq War as a past mistake that he doesn't care about, but that he views Hillary's same vote on the Iraq War as something he will never forgive and which makes her incompetent to serve as President. Two opposite standards for the exact same action by his running mate and Hllary. That he actually admitted to. On 60 Minutes. Forgive me for not watching 60 Minutes. For shame. And he has a double standard with his running mate vs. his opponent. Oh, the horror.
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