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Post by ilikepink on Nov 29, 2016 21:15:01 GMT
jumping in a bit late.....
It's wrong, but legal, as decided by the SC. If we don't like the law as they ruled about it, then we as a people change the law--hence the bill that Hillary co-sponsored. Obviously it didn't become law, so it is currently legal to do the awful act of burning the flag. You cannot change the law by declaring so--even if you are the president-elect. It really reminds of what he said about 3-4 weeks before the election when the polls were turning in his favor - he said the election should be cancelled and he declared the winner. That Pissed me off A Lot-that's what dictators do--declare that what they say is the way things are to be. That attitude may work as a CEO, but not as a president.
Scary times are ahead.
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~Lauren~
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Post by ~Lauren~ on Nov 29, 2016 21:41:12 GMT
No, we wouldn't have voted for Bernie. However you had no other potential nominees because the DNC had promised the nomination to Hillary and nobody was going to step on her toes or thwart the party. Bernie just bucked the system and ran. When have you ever seen only one potential nominee like this election? The people can only vote for who is on the ballot. If no one runs, then it is hard to make other choices. I'm not a Democrat so I can't speak to the insides of their party. I personally think both major parties need an overhaul. I understand. But the fault lies with the DNC.
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Post by gailoh on Nov 29, 2016 21:47:33 GMT
Friends of mine in Cuba couldn't even utter the name of Castro without fear of arrest. A slippery slope. Friends of mine in Cuba couldn't even utter the name of Castro without fear of arrest. I feel for the regular folks in Cuba ...they have suffered under that leadership and still are and hope someday they get real freedom...that said this is my opinion on our flag and the brave men and women who fight for it...
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Post by withapea on Nov 29, 2016 22:06:17 GMT
I wouldn't burn a flag, it causes a visceral reaction and isn't the most effective form of protest. However it's legal to do so and I think it should stay that way. Veterans fight to protect our citizens and their rights, including the first amendment, which is vital. They don't fight to protect a flag or a bald eagle or the Statue of Liberty. A symbol is just that, if you want to effectively legislate reverence and respect for an object, that's not really freedom.
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MizIndependent
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Quit your bullpoop.
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Post by MizIndependent on Nov 29, 2016 22:17:26 GMT
I still think this scene is so very relevant:
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Nink
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Post by Nink on Nov 29, 2016 22:21:16 GMT
You can't cherry pick the constitution. Either you believe in all of it or none of it. If you embrace it because it entitles you to the right to bear arms, then you need to embrace it as it gives you the right to also burn a flag.
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~Lauren~
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Post by ~Lauren~ on Nov 29, 2016 22:22:18 GMT
The difference is that one is specifically stated in the Constitution (the right to bear arms); the other is an interpretation of one of the provisions.
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Nink
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Post by Nink on Nov 29, 2016 22:23:52 GMT
I still think this scene is so very relevant: I was totally thinking of this scene while reading this thread.
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Nink
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Post by Nink on Nov 29, 2016 22:30:26 GMT
The difference is that one is specifically stated in the Constitution (the right to bear arms); the other is an interpretation of one of the provisions. The second amendment has had its fair share of interpretation of what was meant by it over the years as well.
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used2scrap
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Post by used2scrap on Nov 29, 2016 22:35:52 GMT
You know, I too think he is an incredibly unstable person. However, what he says does not push any of my buttons even if I disagree with what he says. I just roll my eyes. He is so dramatic with his wording and his tantrums. And then he back peddles some of what he's said. I just don't find everything he says as horrifying as it actually sounds when he says it. I refuse to get all worked up every single time he says something stupid. I cannot quite wrap my head around thinking that what a Pres Elect/Pres/or any leader of a country says publicly does not matter. What if Pres Kennedy had angry tweeted the wrong thing during the Cuban Missile Crisis, even if he didn't mean it? Seemingly condoning sexism/racism/homophobia/xenophobia matter, and spouting off while the world is watching matters too. And the oath of the Presidency includes a willingness to support and defend the Constitution, so I think it matters if he is making contradictory statements prior to taking that oath.
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AmeliaBloomer
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Post by AmeliaBloomer on Nov 29, 2016 22:53:30 GMT
Where does one go when stripped of citizenship? I'm guessing they wouldn't just rip off your epaulettes (figuratively speaking) and then hand you a Green Card as a compensation prize.
I'm also guessing this citizenship-stripping will be trotted out again, so we need some answers.
Will we contract with some population-depleted nation state? Or start our own outpost for citizen-less people? Maybe an Island for Malcontents...like the Island of Misfit Toys?
![](http://www.reallifetogether.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/misfit_toys2.jpg)
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~Lauren~
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Post by ~Lauren~ on Nov 29, 2016 22:55:17 GMT
The difference is that one is specifically stated in the Constitution (the right to bear arms); the other is an interpretation of one of the provisions. The second amendment has had its fair share of interpretation of what was meant by it over the years as well. Yes, but the amendment itself says that the right to bear arms shall not be infringed. There's interpretation about what that means. However, flag burning is not mentioned in the Constitution at all. It's a judicial extention of the right of free speech.
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AmeliaBloomer
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Post by AmeliaBloomer on Nov 29, 2016 22:57:58 GMT
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2016 0:17:37 GMT
You know, I too think he is an incredibly unstable person. However, what he says does not push any of my buttons even if I disagree with what he says. I just roll my eyes. He is so dramatic with his wording and his tantrums. And then he back peddles some of what he's said. I just don't find everything he says as horrifying as it actually sounds when he says it. I refuse to get all worked up every single time he says something stupid. I cannot quite wrap my head around thinking that what a Pres Elect/Pres/or any leader of a country says publicly does not matter. What if Pres Kennedy had angry tweeted the wrong thing during the Cuban Missile Crisis, even if he didn't mean it? Seemingly condoning sexism/racism/homophobia/xenophobia matter, and spouting off while the world is watching matters too. And the oath of the Presidency includes a willingness to support and defend the Constitution, so I think it matters if he is making contradictory statements prior to taking that oath. I didn't say it didn't matter. It definitely matters what he spews out of his mouth. He has shown us who he is during the campaign. So nothing surprises me anymore. And I won't allow him to get me fired up with his asinine views. I'm just sitting back and waiting until he takes office and see what sort of action he takes. But for now, I won't get my blood pressure up with his stupid tweets.
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Post by pierkiss on Nov 30, 2016 2:33:45 GMT
Lauren, you're being ridiculous. ETA: And, on a personal note, you're really ruining Alan Rickman for me. Lighten up, Gen, I'm teasing. I've always know Pierkiss has no sense of humor but I'm surprised at you. Gulfcoastgurl got it. Uh....ok.
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tincin
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Post by tincin on Nov 30, 2016 3:00:07 GMT
honestly, I wouldn't ever burn a flag myself (I don't think) but this idiocy almost makes me WANT to, just on principle. Because I can, and it's legally protected for me to do so. LOL I actually posted something similar to this on Facebook, it makes me want to burn a flag and wait to be arrested. WTH? This is the biggest problem we have? Save
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scorpeao
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Post by scorpeao on Nov 30, 2016 3:01:22 GMT
And y'll could've given us a better option than Hillary. There are many people I know who would have voted Democrat had y'all not picked her. Well, we really didn't. Remember, it was rigged so that Bernie wouldn't get nominated. But really, Lauren, would you have been okay with Bernie? I'm guessing you would've been even more shrill had Bernie been the nom.
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tincin
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Post by tincin on Nov 30, 2016 3:05:57 GMT
My husband fought for that flag...and back to the Revolutionary war we have family that fought for it, right up to even now with family in service...it should be illegal ... oh and before any of you slam me this is what " I " think...this has nothing to do with Trump...it has everything to do with honor and accountability for the ones who fought for it, came back broken and died for it, past, present and future... Actually he fought for this country and the right to burn that flag, you know, that whole freedom of speech thing? Save
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flute4peace
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Post by flute4peace on Nov 30, 2016 3:15:49 GMT
(Haven't read the other responses)
I think he's getting pretty good at deflecting attention off of himself - by using himself as the squirrel.
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Post by bc2ca on Nov 30, 2016 3:40:00 GMT
Where does one go when stripped of citizenship? I'm guessing they wouldn't just rip off your epaulettes (figuratively speaking) and then hand you a Green Card as a compensation prize.
I'm also guessing this citizenship-stripping will be trotted out again, so we need some answers.
Will we contract with some population-depleted nation state? Or start our own outpost for citizen-less people? Maybe an Island for Malcontents...like the Island of Misfit Toys?
![](http://www.reallifetogether.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/misfit_toys2.jpg)
DS and I were discussing this and figured the penalty could be you are set adrift at sea and declare refugee status where ever you wash ashore.
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tincin
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Post by tincin on Nov 30, 2016 3:53:51 GMT
Wasn't there a little town in Canada that was looking for people to move there because they were losing so many young people to big cities? I want to say Cape Breton, or something like that. Do you suppose they would take us, eh?
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flute4peace
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Post by flute4peace on Nov 30, 2016 3:59:31 GMT
What's he trying to distract us from? That's my first thought. He's thrown a straw man up to take focus off of what - his conflicts of interest? It's gotta be something because this is so stupid - even for him. Two words come to my mind: Flynn & Patraeus. Seriously he went from "lock her up" to "hire them" in a matter of a couple weeks.
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Post by Belia on Nov 30, 2016 4:43:09 GMT
Where does one go when stripped of citizenship? I'm guessing they wouldn't just rip off your epaulettes (figuratively speaking) and then hand you a Green Card as a compensation prize.
I'm also guessing this citizenship-stripping will be trotted out again, so we need some answers.
Will we contract with some population-depleted nation state? Or start our own outpost for citizen-less people? Maybe an Island for Malcontents...like the Island of Misfit Toys?
![](http://www.reallifetogether.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/misfit_toys2.jpg)
DS and I were discussing this and figured the penalty could be you are set adrift at sea and declare refugee status where ever you wash ashore. Honest to pete, that doesn't sound all bad at this point. I mean, if its a big enough boat and well stocked with provisions (aka tequila), I don't think I'd mind sitting out the next 4 years of this shit show on a boat.
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~Lauren~
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Post by ~Lauren~ on Nov 30, 2016 5:18:57 GMT
And y'll could've given us a better option than Hillary. There are many people I know who would have voted Democrat had y'all not picked her. Well, we really didn't. Remember, it was rigged so that Bernie wouldn't get nominated. But really, Lauren, would you have been okay with Bernie? I'm guessing you would've been even more shrill had Bernie been the nom. I've already responded to this. No, I would not have preferred Bernie. But the DNC made it clear that no one was to run against Hillary so the Democrats missed the opportunity to put up anybody that could garner votes from the independents and moderate Republicans. Basically, your party screwed you because it believed Hillary was owed the nomination.
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Post by lucyg on Nov 30, 2016 6:28:53 GMT
Well, we really didn't. Remember, it was rigged so that Bernie wouldn't get nominated. But really, Lauren, would you have been okay with Bernie? I'm guessing you would've been even more shrill had Bernie been the nom. I've already responded to this. No, I would not have preferred Bernie. But the DNC made it clear that no one was to run against Hillary so the Democrats missed the opportunity to put up anybody that could garner votes from the independents and moderate Republicans. Basically, your party screwed you because it believed Hillary was owed the nomination. You can keep saying that but it doesn't make it so. The truth is, many Democratic primary voters were clamoring for Hillary to run. Although you like to pretend there were only Hillary and Bernie running, there were actually at least two other Democratic candidates in the early stages. The voters, not the party, chose Hillary. And as has already been stated many times but you choose to go with your own version of the story: Bernie is not, and never has been, a Democrat. The Democrats allowed him to run as one, but they owed him nothing, including loyalty. If the DNC chose to stand with their own most popular candidate, I don't have an issue with that. Our problem is that we were blindsided by the effect of 25 years of Republican rumor-mongering, mockery, legal attacks, and outright lying on Hillary's candidacy. Six years of Republican control and your dedicated Congressional attack dogs still couldn't find something to charge her with? What a surprise. And today, yet another pea posted yet another long-debunked lie about the Clinton Foundation. I don't think Trump could have won this election without the support of the right-wing propaganda machine. My conservative Christian, steadfast Republican brother-in-law wrote in Bernie's name on the California ballot. Even he couldn't bring himself to vote for that sociopath for president. I'm very sorry for our country that you and 60 million of your friends were able to.
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katybee
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Post by katybee on Nov 30, 2016 11:33:31 GMT
Absolutey. Send them all to jail. Also, if you wear an ugly button down flag shirt, but cute graphic tees should still be ok. Also, if you kneel during the National Anthem--because that's also a sacred American Symbol.
BTW: American flag= sacred symbol of all we hold true. It represents what's TRULY in your heart. Confederate flag=just a symbol. Just because you fly one doesn't mean you're racist. It does NOT represent what's truly in your heart. Just so we're clear.
#sarcasm #incaseyouarewondering
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Nov 30, 2016 12:40:23 GMT
I've already responded to this. No, I would not have preferred Bernie. But the DNC made it clear that no one was to run against Hillary so the Democrats missed the opportunity to put up anybody that could garner votes from the independents and moderate Republicans. Basically, your party screwed you because it believed Hillary was owed the nomination. You can keep saying that but it doesn't make it so. The truth is, many Democratic primary voters were clamoring for Hillary to run. Although you like to pretend there were only Hillary and Bernie running, there were actually at least two other Democratic candidates in the early stages. The voters, not the party, chose Hillary. And as has already been stated many times but you choose to go with your own version of the story: Bernie is not, and never has been, a Democrat. The Democrats allowed him to run as one, but they owed him nothing, including loyalty. If the DNC chose to stand with their own most popular candidate, I don't have an issue with that. Our problem is that we were blindsided by the effect of 25 years of Republican rumor-mongering, mockery, legal attacks, and outright lying on Hillary's candidacy. Six years of Republican control and your dedicated Congressional attack dogs still couldn't find something to charge her with? What a surprise. And today, yet another pea posted yet another long-debunked lie about the Clinton Foundation. I don't think Trump could have won this election without the support of the right-wing propaganda machine. My conservative Christian, steadfast Republican brother-in-law wrote in Bernie's name on the California ballot. Even he couldn't bring himself to vote for that sociopath for president. I'm very sorry for our country that you and 60 million of your friends were able to. Thank YOU Lucyg! Perfectly said. I'm sick to death of being beat down by conservatives who just cannot admit that their savior is a bat shit crazy loon who knows nothing about being president and throws out the "it's the Dems fault" or "Hilary did it" each time their idiot elect does something stupid. It didn't help either that Trumpster has the Russians and Wikileaks in his stable either.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2016 13:31:11 GMT
You can keep saying that but it doesn't make it so. The truth is, many Democratic primary voters were clamoring for Hillary to run. Although you like to pretend there were only Hillary and Bernie running, there were actually at least two other Democratic candidates in the early stages. The voters, not the party, chose Hillary. And as has already been stated many times but you choose to go with your own version of the story: Bernie is not, and never has been, a Democrat. The Democrats allowed him to run as one, but they owed him nothing, including loyalty. If the DNC chose to stand with their own most popular candidate, I don't have an issue with that. Our problem is that we were blindsided by the effect of 25 years of Republican rumor-mongering, mockery, legal attacks, and outright lying on Hillary's candidacy. Six years of Republican control and your dedicated Congressional attack dogs still couldn't find something to charge her with? What a surprise. And today, yet another pea posted yet another long-debunked lie about the Clinton Foundation. I don't think Trump could have won this election without the support of the right-wing propaganda machine. My conservative Christian, steadfast Republican brother-in-law wrote in Bernie's name on the California ballot. Even he couldn't bring himself to vote for that sociopath for president. I'm very sorry for our country that you and 60 million of your friends were able to. Thank YOU Lucyg! Perfectly said. I'm sick to death of being beat down by conservatives who just cannot admit that their savior is a bat shit crazy loon who knows nothing about being president and throws out the "it's the Dems fault" or "Hilary did it" each time their idiot elect does something stupid.It didn't help either that Trumpster has the Russians and Wikileaks in his stable either. I have yet to see anyone blame Hillary or blame the Dems because of his dumbassery. He acts like a dumbass all on his own. And while I have seen people blame the Dems for not having a better candidate to put up instead of HRC, I feel different and am still floored the Repubs. couldn't come up with someone better than him. I'm still in shock at all the other candidates that fell before him. Trump and HRC were the last 2 standing. And I still shake my head. I have read over and over people on here criticizing and questioning some of Trump's appointments, criticizing his tweets, saying they wish he'd keep his big mouth shut, etc., and that's from people like me that DID vote for him. Shit...I even said he was "an asshat that talks out of both sides of his f'ing mouth." What more do you want? People want to pick apart every.single.thing the man says and does, by all means, continue on. However, why is there this expectation that people need to check in daily and say, "you were right?"
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2016 16:18:05 GMT
Thank YOU Lucyg! Perfectly said. I'm sick to death of being beat down by conservatives who just cannot admit that their savior is a bat shit crazy loon who knows nothing about being president and throws out the "it's the Dems fault" or "Hilary did it" each time their idiot elect does something stupid.It didn't help either that Trumpster has the Russians and Wikileaks in his stable either. I have yet to see anyone blame Hillary or blame the Dems because of his dumbassery. He acts like a dumbass all on his own. And while I have seen people blame the Dems for not having a better candidate to put up instead of HRC, I feel different and am still floored the Repubs. couldn't come up with someone better than him. I'm still in shock at all the other candidates that fell before him. Trump and HRC were the last 2 standing. And I still shake my head. I have read over and over people on here criticizing and questioning some of Trump's appointments, criticizing his tweets, saying they wish he'd keep his big mouth shut, etc., and that's from people like me that DID vote for him. Shit...I even said he was "an asshat that talks out of both sides of his f'ing mouth." What more do you want? People want to pick apart every.single.thing the man says and does, by all means, continue on. However, why is there this expectation that people need to check in daily and say, "you were right?" Because everyday something egregious about Trump comes out. Like today's announcement that he and his kids are going sign "legal" papers to seperate him from his businesses because he doesn't want a conflict of interest. Just how stupid does he think people are? Does he really think by signing some document he will forget all his business interests? Forget who he owes money to? Trump does not need to be directly involved in his businesses to make decisions as president that will benefit his businesses. The only true way for Trump to avoid any conflict of interest is to sell all his assets and then the proceeds are reinvested and managed by a third party. Well we know that isn't going to happen. So for the next 4 years different conflict of interest stories will pop up. And we have to hope that his decisions that he will make to benefit his businesses will not put our country at risk.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Nov 30, 2016 16:24:06 GMT
Thank YOU Lucyg! Perfectly said. I'm sick to death of being beat down by conservatives who just cannot admit that their savior is a bat shit crazy loon who knows nothing about being president and throws out the "it's the Dems fault" or "Hilary did it" each time their idiot elect does something stupid.It didn't help either that Trumpster has the Russians and Wikileaks in his stable either. I have yet to see anyone blame Hillary or blame the Dems because of his dumbassery. He acts like a dumbass all on his own. And while I have seen people blame the Dems for not having a better candidate to put up instead of HRC, I feel different and am still floored the Repubs. couldn't come up with someone better than him. I'm still in shock at all the other candidates that fell before him. Trump and HRC were the last 2 standing. And I still shake my head. I have read over and over people on here criticizing and questioning some of Trump's appointments, criticizing his tweets, saying they wish he'd keep his big mouth shut, etc., and that's from people like me that DID vote for him. Shit...I even said he was "an asshat that talks out of both sides of his f'ing mouth." What more do you want? People want to pick apart every.single.thing the man says and does, by all means, continue on. However, why is there this expectation that people need to check in daily and say, "you were right?" What do I want? I want to be heard without someone telling me to "get over it", or telling me it's the "dems fault" for Trumpsters egregious verbal diarrhea and actions. It is NOT ANYONE's fault except his own of what comes out of his mouth.
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