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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Aug 18, 2014 4:59:23 GMT
An unarmed kid, was stopped for JAYWALKING and is now dead. He was first shot while fleeing from the officer and was shot again WHILE HOLDING UP HIS ARMS, which is the universal symbol for surrender. Multiple eye witnesses saw him surrendering and is one of the many reasons the community is so outraged. Much of this is being disputed.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Aug 18, 2014 5:05:21 GMT
I'll bet you wouldn't be so quick to "question his character" if he was white. Do you also question the character of the police officer? You seem to know a lot about this young black man; have you met him? Is the death penalty (imposed by the officer) just punishment for stealing cigars from a store? You have him arrested, charged, convicted and punished; the only thing we know he's guilty of for sure is walking down a road while black. Sure she would! I too would absolutely question the character of ANYONE who did those things!! Are you stupid? Most living breathing people would too! And lizandjuan YOU are just as bad as you accuse the person you quoted--you have the officer pegged as blatantly racist!! You are not as clever and witty as you think you are!
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Aug 18, 2014 5:08:51 GMT
This is America- we don't give the death penalty for jaywalking, stealing cigars and being an asshole, or even resisting arrest. Laws apply equally. Even if they happen in a "bad" neighborhood, by a resident of said neighborhood (and I am not saying it's clear any or all of the above happened) you don't expect to shoot someone for it unless in any neighborhood you would get shot for it. Which is the issue, IMO- a resident of a predominately white, upscale neighborhood doesmt get the same treatment (ie, being shot to death) for similar actions. Black on black violence is not the issue here- take your smelly red herrings somewhere else. This is about police brutality and equal application of law. Police brutality??? Seriously??? There is factual evidence that Michael Brown FIRST attacked the police officer when the officer was doing his duty trying to get them from inhibiting traffic. Michael Brown is the one who set the chain of events into motion.
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Deleted
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Oct 10, 2024 18:23:45 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2014 5:10:25 GMT
There is always more to the story. That is not Michael Brown. It doesn't even remotely look like Michael Brown. Shoplifting doesn't merit death. The only person with the "grab the gun" story is the cop. Who didn't file an incident report, and has left town. At least two witnesses outside of Brown's buddy have come forward. He was running away when the first two shots were fired. . Running away...backwards.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Aug 18, 2014 5:11:43 GMT
Is the death penalty (imposed by the officer) just punishment for stealing cigars from a store? Can we please stop saying that is why the officer killed him? Lizandjuan has a comprehension problem. She doesn't read just responds with dumbass comment to inflame.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Aug 18, 2014 5:21:41 GMT
Good for you! I'm not making excuses for him or anyone else...my point is that there IS discrimination in this country. If Michael brown had been white, none of this would have happened, period. People aren't equally held accountable for their actions, period. And people who come from privilege will never ever get it, period. You cannot say that as a fact, period! you have absolutely no idea whatsoever if the same police officer would have asked white boys to get out if the road that were inhibiting traffic, and if those white boys would have attacked the officer the same result would or would not have happened. Period! And your last sentence is more stupid than the rest! Period!!! People of privilege?? You are ridiculous! Oh I think that most people "get it". But how do you explain those who think that the answer is to loot and riot and pillage and commit more crimes and arson and raise an entire county into terror? What class of people does that fall under???
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Aug 18, 2014 5:23:38 GMT
No. That is exactly what the officer did, and is what any officer who shoots and kills a person does. And you get stupider with each and every post. You are definitely one ignorant person. I feel bad for you.
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stittsygirl
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,600
Location: In the leaves and rain.
Jun 25, 2014 19:57:33 GMT
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Post by stittsygirl on Aug 18, 2014 5:41:38 GMT
Stepping back in just to say, since it appears many are still misinformed about (or are just choosing to ignore) what the three eyewitnesses have testified they saw, is that Brown was fleeing (and not backwards), the officer shot at him, Brown then stopped and turned around with his hands up, allegedly declaring he was unarmed, and was then shot several more times into the front of his body. If you look at the autopsy report, you can see for yourself how that scenario is quite plausible, including having his arm shot several times as if it were up near his head, where the final and lethal shots entered. This is what set off this powder keg. So far there has been no evidence presented that this officer had justification to continue to pump bullets into, and eventually kill, an unarmed man who by eyewitness accounts was stopped, facing him from a distance, with his hands up.
The autopsy report also stated there was no gunpowder residue on the body, implying again that he was shot from a distance, but they still need to test his clothing.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 10, 2024 18:23:45 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2014 6:09:08 GMT
So far there has been no evidence presented that this officer had justification to continue to pump bullets into, and eventually kill, an unarmed man There is another witness at the scene saying he was running and turned around and charged at him. When you assault an officer, attempt to get his gun and then leave and come back charging and refuse to stop when he says freeze, the officer has a right to protect himself. Allegedly.
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stittsygirl
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,600
Location: In the leaves and rain.
Jun 25, 2014 19:57:33 GMT
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Post by stittsygirl on Aug 18, 2014 6:35:46 GMT
So far there has been no evidence presented that this officer had justification to continue to pump bullets into, and eventually kill, an unarmed man There is another witness at the scene saying he was running and turned around and charged at him. When you assault an officer, attempt to get his gun and then leave and come back charging and refuse to stop when he says freeze, the officer has a right to protect himself. Allegedly. I haven't seen nor heard that particular witness statement on any of the news sources I follow. If it's true, though, then Brown either charged the officer with his arms raised, or ran at him with his arms down but his palms facing forward, as four of the bullets that hit him entered the inside of his right forearm and upper arm. By by all accounts, though, after the first altercation Brown had initially left the side of the vehicle and was running away from it. Why then did the officer start shooting at him? Whatever the tussle was in the vehicle, Brown had not absconded with a weapon. The officer may have been injured, but was not shot. Nor did the officer know at the time about Brown's possible involvement in the robbery. What made the officer get out of the vehicle and start shooting at a man who had only been stopped at first for jaywalking? Whether Brown turned around and stopped in surrender before being shot to death, or turned around and charged the officer already shooting at him to try and save himself, the actions of the officer are still extremely questionable. And no where have I said an officer doesn't have the right to protect him or herself. Of course they do. I personally have yet to see compelling evidence that defense was what motivated this officer in this case, at least when he first started shooting at a retreating and unarmed man. Anger and frustration - yes, emotions which actually spawn non pre-meditated killings everyday in this country, which even police officers aren't always immune to, but should be held accountable for just like a civilian citizen would be.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Aug 18, 2014 7:11:39 GMT
So many insults toward me tonight; I'm beginning to think you might have a little crush on me. You're not going to pull my pigtails on the playground today, are you?
PS: I smell an alternate identity at work here. Hmmmm.
Can we get back to the OP's topic already?
Just yours. You are a fake.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Aug 18, 2014 7:13:27 GMT
And I care what you think of me why? At least I managed to fit my entire user name on one line. Like I said before, you fall short, so very short of being clever and witty. It's so sad to see you trying so hard too.
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Post by gar on Aug 18, 2014 7:29:51 GMT
How do you all see this going now the National Guard has been called in?
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Sarah*H
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,018
Jun 25, 2014 20:07:06 GMT
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Post by Sarah*H on Aug 18, 2014 10:57:23 GMT
Because the preliminary autopsy report said that he died from gunshot wounds but didn't say how many times he'd been shot. Curious, no? This new report says that at least one of the shots was through his palm and some in his arm - hands up. No gun shot residue on the body indicating he wasn't close to the gun. I don't have any idea how anyone concludes this doesn't match the existing narrative and frankly, if you say something like that without knowing any more than the rest of us do right now, it makes me feel like you are deliberately looking for something that will disrupt said narrative. I'm also unsure what is this "factual evidence" that the officer who shot him was attacked first. I know that's what the police chief has alleged but after everything he's said and done over the last week, I'm surely not inclined to believe a word that comes out of his mouth and I'll wait until the feds tell us what happened before I draw the kinds of conclusions I've read here. I've drawn plenty of other conclusions though.
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Sarah*H
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,018
Jun 25, 2014 20:07:06 GMT
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Post by Sarah*H on Aug 18, 2014 11:02:41 GMT
I thought the President should have nationalized the Guard last week but he probably had assurances from the Governor that he would call them in if necessary. And it's necessary. Ferguson is at the tipping point. Many parts of our country are at the tipping point. I can't even pull my thoughts together coherently these days. But we live in a world where people smugly call this boy a thug or openly speculate that he must have been on drugs before they know a damn thing about him beyond the color of his skin and what neighborhood he lived in. Post racial society indeed. What We Know About Michael Brown's School
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Deleted
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Oct 10, 2024 18:23:45 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2014 11:05:17 GMT
Stepping back in just to say, since it appears many are still misinformed about (or are just choosing to ignore) what the three eyewitnesses have testified they saw, is that Brown was fleeing (and not backwards), the officer shot at him, Brown then stopped and turned around with his hands up, allegedly declaring he was unarmed, and was then shot several more times into the front of his body. If you look at the autopsy report, you can see for yourself how that scenario is quite plausible, including having his arm shot several times as if it were up near his head, where the final and lethal shots entered. This is what set off this powder keg. So far there has been no evidence presented that this officer had justification to continue to pump bullets into, and eventually kill, an unarmed man who by eyewitness accounts was stopped, facing him from a distance, with his hands up. The autopsy report also stated there was no gunpowder residue on the body, implying again that he was shot from a distance, but they still need to test his clothing. It's also quite plausible that Brown was shot during the scuffle and physical attack on the officer within the confines of the police car. He ran to escape and it took a few seconds for the officer to get up out of the car. He yells for Brown to freeze...Brown then turns around to charge him, (as we overhear a witness on the scene state in a video) and is shot and killed because this man who had already assaulted a police officer and committed a robbery (though we still haven't heard from the officer yet to determine if he knew...he had a radio in his car...he may have even had a portable radio on his uniform...so it's quite plausible that he did know Brown was a suspect in the robbery)
If a man is already shot, and he comes charging at you, I'd bet my britches that you'd be afraid for your life as well. What was the officer supposed to do? Ask him nicely to stop? Buy him a dozen roses?
I wasn't there and am assuming you weren't there. My scenario is just as plausible as your scenario is.
Just looked at witness statements from the scene of the shooting
"I saw the officer proceeding after my friend Big Mike with his gun drawn, and he fired a second shot and that struck my friend Big Mike," Johnson told CNN's Wolf Blitzer. "And at that time, he turned around with his hands up, beginning to tell the officer that he was unarmed and to tell him to stop shooting. But at that time, the officer firing several more shots into my friend, and he hit the ground and died."
Says his friend was struck and THEN he turned around. Michael Brown was not struck from behind.
After that shot, Brown broke free from the officer's grasp, both women told CNN, and started running, but he only got about 20 feet from the squad car by Crenshaw's estimate.
"The cop gets out of his vehicle shooting," Mitchell said. "(Brown's) body jerked as if he was hit from behind, and he turned around and he put his hands up. ... The cop continued to fire
Again, he was not hit from behind.
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Post by Peace Sign on Aug 18, 2014 11:06:27 GMT
People of privilege?? You are ridiculous! Oh I think that most people "get it".
But how do you explain those who think that the answer is to loot and riot and pillage and commit more crimes and arson and raise an entire county into terror? What class of people does that fall under???
Think what you want...you're just proving my point. You don't get it.
And let's be clear that the violence and looting is a small group of people. Most are protesting peacefully.
Again, I'm not defending Michael brown specifically, or condemning police. We simply don't know exactly what happened. But if you deny racial discrimination in this case, in this city, then you are a fool.
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Sarah*H
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,018
Jun 25, 2014 20:07:06 GMT
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Post by Sarah*H on Aug 18, 2014 11:17:43 GMT
How many people are looting? How many people fired shots at the officers or threw molotov cocktails? Are the people who are doing these things actually from Ferguson? Before you start going on about classes of people and condemning a whole community, give definitive answers to those questions. Citizens protect stores from looters
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Post by PEArfect on Aug 18, 2014 11:53:48 GMT
Conflicting witness statements...imagine that.
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Dalai Mama
Drama Llama
La Pea Boheme
Posts: 6,985
Jun 26, 2014 0:31:31 GMT
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Post by Dalai Mama on Aug 18, 2014 12:22:01 GMT
Conflicting witness statements...imagine that. The witness statements are consistent - consistently contrary to what the police department is saying.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 10, 2024 18:23:45 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2014 12:28:15 GMT
Those witnesses also claim he was shot in the back which we know is not factual. There's also a witness whose voice is caught on a video stating that Brown was running at the officer.
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Post by anxiousmom on Aug 18, 2014 12:59:21 GMT
How do you all see this going now the National Guard has been called in? I have no idea, but my best guess is that it is going to really and truly inflame the situation. To send in soldiers is sending a tacit message that this IS a war zone and the distinction between what the National Guard does and what the standing army does is going to get lost. People were already upset by the idea that the police were dressed as soldiers, now they are getting the real deal.
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Post by rumplesnat on Aug 18, 2014 13:00:09 GMT
And let's be clear that the violence and looting is a small group of people. Most are protesting peacefully. The National Guard doesn't get called in to deal with a "small" group of people being violent and looting.
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Post by redayh on Aug 18, 2014 13:12:52 GMT
I love the way people act like they were there and know exactly what happened. Here are the ONLY facts we know. An unarmed 18 year old was shot by a police officer multiple times and is now dead. That is ALL WE KNOW for sure.
If you add anything else to that, its only your personal prejudices and presuppositions (whether they relate to Black teenagers or to the police).
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Post by Anna*Banana on Aug 18, 2014 13:22:50 GMT
I'm not sure that accepting both, that his stop may have been racially motivated and Brown responded threateningly, is impossible. I do believe his stop may have been racial profiling, but I'm not sure that Brown was not complying either. He was 6'4" and just shy of 300 lbs and if he did shove the cop back in the car and go after him and his gun, that would clearly illicit a response like that which happened.
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Post by pierogi on Aug 18, 2014 13:37:09 GMT
That is not Michael Brown. It doesn't even remotely look like Michael Brown. Shoplifting doesn't merit death. The only person with the "grab the gun" story is the cop. Who didn't file an incident report, and has left town. At least two witnesses outside of Brown's buddy have come forward. He was running away when the first two shots were fired. . Running away...backwards. Have you read their accounts? Michael Brown was running away from the vehicle, when the officer opened fire. One said after the first two shots he turned and surrendered, hands up, but the cop kept shooting. The wounds back up the witness statement, not the cop's.
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azredhead
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,755
Jun 25, 2014 22:49:18 GMT
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Post by azredhead on Aug 18, 2014 14:59:45 GMT
. Running away...backwards. Have you read their accounts? Michael Brown was running away from the vehicle, when the officer opened fire. One said after the first two shots he turned and surrendered, hands up, but the cop kept shooting. The wounds back up the witness statement, not the cop's. No they don't -all it says is that he was shot from the front and that one of the gun shot wounds was Brown was leaning over. They don't even know if it was shot from a distance or close range because they do not have gun powder evidence yet. That's a very quick assumption. NO one knows and yes there are conflicting statements from witnesses. I really wish the news would report the WHOLE story and not just bits and pieces. And about the National Guard I like the statement from Ron Johson he's been trying to help them but the situations is out of hand. Based on the conditions, I had no alternative but to elevate the level of response." - Capt. Ron Johnson, Missouri Highway Patrol
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Post by *KatyCupcake* on Aug 18, 2014 15:24:07 GMT
I'm not sure that accepting both, that his stop may have been racially motivated and Brown responded threateningly, is impossible. I do believe his stop may have been racial profiling, but I'm not sure that Brown was not complying either. He was 6'4" and just shy of 300 lbs and if he did shove the cop back in the car and go after him and his gun, that would clearly illicit a response like that which happened. This is where I was until I factored in that the store robbery had happened less than 10 minutes prior and police had a description and a direction the suspect was heading. Makes sense then that officers in the area were all looking for someone of that description and not simply Officer Wilson deciding to stop Michael Brown because he was black.
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scrappinmama
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,025
Jun 26, 2014 12:54:09 GMT
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Post by scrappinmama on Aug 18, 2014 15:25:30 GMT
I haven't made up my mind about this tragedy. And make no mistake that this is a tragedy. An 18 year old is dead. First, let me say that I grew up in a ghetto. I am Hispanic, and was raised in the area where some of the LA riots took place. As someone who grew up in a similar environment, I witnessed firsthand, as police threw people on the ground and hit them with clubs, or pulled people over for no reason. Sometimes the person deserved it, but sometimes it was a totally innocent person who just happened to be Black or Hispanic in a poor neighborhood. I also want to say that I witnessed police officers, who were very kind and risked their lives to keep us safe from the gangs that surrounded us. A part of me can see how a cop would have targeted Michael Brown because of the color of his skin, or because he was poor. But another part wants to know why he charged at the officer, if he really did charge. Because at this point, what happened isn't clear. I do feel if Michael would have just done what the police said, he would still be alive. Does that mean that the police officer was right to shoot him dead? No. Has anyone read this article written by Kareem Abdul Jabbar? I totally feel that he got to the root of the problem. time.com/author/kareem-abdul-jabbar/
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Post by Anna*Banana on Aug 18, 2014 15:35:29 GMT
I haven't made up my mind about this tragedy. And make no mistake that this is a tragedy. An 18 year old is dead. First, let me say that I grew up in a ghetto. I am Hispanic, and was raised in the area where some of the LA riots took place. As someone who grew up in a similar environment, I witnessed firsthand, as police threw people on the ground and hit them with clubs, or pulled people over for no reason. Sometimes the person deserved it, but sometimes it was a totally innocent person who just happened to be Black or Hispanic in a poor neighborhood. I also want to say that I witnessed police officers, who were very kind and risked their lives to keep us safe from the gangs that surrounded us. A part of me can see how a cop would have targeted Michael Brown because of the color of his skin, or because he was poor. But another part wants to know why he charged at the officer, if he really did charge. Because at this point, what happened isn't clear. I do feel if Michael would have just done what the police said, he would still be alive. Does that mean that the police officer was right to shoot him dead? No. Has anyone read this article written by Kareem Abdul Jabbar? I totally feel that he got to the root of the problem. time.com/author/kareem-abdul-jabbar/That was an interesting article and I found it thought provoking in many ways. The only quibble I have, is that Hispanics out number blacks, as a "minority" and as higher number of poor. So, that kind of negates some of his argument that it's more about being poor that is targeted, than it is about just being black.
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