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Post by femalebusiness on Aug 18, 2014 15:57:27 GMT
The autopsy report is just coming out. Six shots and the kill shot was to the top back of his head and exited through the lower jaw. He was over six feet so barring any new info he was killed from above/behind when he was down on the ground.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2014 15:59:36 GMT
Michael Brown may have been the lightning rod for this unrest, but debating whether or not he was guilty or provoked the shooting is missing the point of what is really going on in Ferguson. It points to much bigger issues - a profound lack of trust between a predominately white police force and the community, mostly non-white, that they are supposed to protect and serve. It's a harsh reminder that the race issues in our country - that so many are quick to say are behind us - are still very much a problem.
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Post by *KatyCupcake* on Aug 18, 2014 16:10:12 GMT
The autopsy report is just coming out. Six shots and the kill shot was to the top back of his head and exited through the lower jaw. He was over six feet so barring any new info he was killed from above/behind when he was down on the ground. I guess that's another way to view those results. What I read said the last shot to the head shows he could have been forward charging at or lunging towards the officer. So not really conclusive one way or the other- still reserving judgment on both men involved.
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Post by Anna*Banana on Aug 18, 2014 16:12:21 GMT
The autopsy report is just coming out. Six shots and the kill shot was to the top back of his head and exited through the lower jaw. He was over six feet so barring any new info he was killed from above/behind when he was down on the ground. Hmmm. Behind? Maybe he was falling forward? I think both sides are telling stories. I don't think we'll ever know the truth. Sadly. I am kind of tired of everyone cherry picking pieces of info as it trickles out with a pronouncement of: Aha! See?! It was ________'s fault! The facts are far from being known and while I am unhappy with how the Ferguson police have handled this I was reminded that they are a small town and have never ever managed a national situation like this. Big cities who deal with shootings like this have history and know how to manage them. I do wonder if some of the debacle is due to their naivete with national news type problems. It's been buggered up any way you look at it.
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Post by yoursweetwhimsy on Aug 18, 2014 16:57:27 GMT
Michael Brown may have been the lightning rod for this unrest, but debating whether or not he was guilty or provoked the shooting is missing the point of what is really going on in Ferguson. It points to much bigger issues - a profound lack of trust between a predominately white police force and the community, mostly non-white, that they are supposed to protect and serve. It's a harsh reminder that the race issues in our country - that so many are quick to say are behind us - are still very much a problem. Here is my issue regarding the race issue..This area lives up to the "racist stereotype". I live in St. Louis and can tell you that this is not a safe area, a lot of homicides, robberies, etc. So, all this energy is being put into "righting this wrong" and "stopping this blatant act of racism", why not get just as worked up and help stop the issues that perpetuate the stereotype. Work on programs, mentoring, etc. to get these young men and women following a different path. Because once all these cameras go away, this neighborhood is going to be worse, not better. Al Sharpton will run off to another media circus and these young people will continue in the way they have always known. There is a portion of people who will always be racist. But there is also a portion of people who would love nothing more than to hear success stories and to see that these young people have broken the cycle.
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scrappinmama
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Post by scrappinmama on Aug 18, 2014 17:11:09 GMT
You most definitely can break the cycle. I'm living proof. I went to college and worked hard to get out of that neighborhood. Mentoring is the key. But it goes back to the article I posted. Programs need to be funded. But in this day, programs are being cut or reduced.
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Sarah*H
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Post by Sarah*H on Aug 18, 2014 17:19:28 GMT
And the article I posted said that Michael Brown's community raised their own taxes to the highest level in the state in order to try to better fund the school but a higher percentage of nothing is still nothing. Institutionalized racism isn't going to be fixed with better mentoring programs and a can do attitude. As for the "racist stereotype," Just who is perpetuating that stereotype? Source
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2014 17:33:07 GMT
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Post by gmcwife1 on Aug 18, 2014 17:44:11 GMT
You most definitely can break the cycle. I'm living proof. I went to college and worked hard to get out of that neighborhood. Mentoring is the key. But it goes back to the article I posted. Programs need to be funded. But in this day, programs are being cut or reduced. I'm a minority that is also proof. My dh is a minority that was raised by a single mother and he is proof too. Neither of us attended college but we both have good jobs we've worked hard for and at. Dh is a Puerto Rican in law enforcement.
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MizIndependent
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Post by MizIndependent on Aug 18, 2014 17:47:40 GMT
Mike Brown Law. Requires all state, county, and local police to wear a camera."Due to the latest accounts of deadly encounters with police, We the People, petition for the Mike Brown Law. Create a bill, sign into law, and set aside funds to require all state,county, and local police, to wear a camera.The law shall be made in an effort to not only detour police misconduct (i.e. brutality, profiling, abuse of power), but to ensure that all police are following procedure, and to remove all question, from normally questionable police encounters. As well as help to hold all parties within a police investigation, accountable for their actions."
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Post by PEArfect on Aug 18, 2014 18:12:14 GMT
"Brown was shot by white police officer Darren Wilson." Headline I read today. The media is not helping.
If Darren Wilson was black, how would it change things? Brown would still be dead. People would still be looting. Al Sharpton would not be involved (no race motivated agenda for him.) The color of the suspect or officer shouldn't matter. Investigate the shooting and move on.
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Dalai Mama
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Post by Dalai Mama on Aug 18, 2014 18:16:47 GMT
"Brown was shot by white police officer Darren Wilson." Headline I read today. The media is not helping. If Darren Wilson was black, how would it change things? Brown would still be dead. People would still be looting. Al Sharpton would not be involved (no race motivated agenda for him.) The color of the suspect or officer shouldn't matter. Investigate the shooting and move on. Would he still be dead? I'm not so sure about that.
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Sarah*H
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Post by Sarah*H on Aug 18, 2014 18:19:07 GMT
Well you're right that it shouldn't. But there is every reason to believe that it did. That's why there is a civil rights investigation concurrent to the criminal investigation.
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MizIndependent
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Quit your bullpoop.
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Post by MizIndependent on Aug 18, 2014 18:22:04 GMT
"Brown was shot by white police officer Darren Wilson." Headline I read today. The media is not helping. If Darren Wilson was black, how would it change things? Brown would still be dead. People would still be looting. Al Sharpton would not be involved (no race motivated agenda for him.) The color of the suspect or officer shouldn't matter. Investigate the shooting and move on. Would he still be dead? I'm not so sure about that. I think she's saying if the a black officer shot and killed Brown, would things be progressing the way they are now? Looting, protesting, rioting, Al Sharpton, etc. Probably not. I don't get the looting. The protesting, absolutely! I even understand the rioting, but how in the hell does it help that community for people to break into businesses and steal from and vandalize them? That is some serious, low class, despicable shit right there.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2014 18:28:02 GMT
I don't get the looting. The protesting, absolutely! I even understand the rioting, but how in the hell does it help that community for people to break into businesses and steal from and vandalize them? That is some serious, low class, despicable shit right there. Yes, it is, but don't forget that it's been widely reported that plenty of protestors tried to stop the looting, blocked stores, etc. to prevent vandalism. There are dirt bags everywhere who will take advantage of chaotic situations to steal. Fortunately, they are a small percentage of people. Sadly, it also happened recently in Washington after the devastating fires in the area of Pateros. Sleazeballs were sneaking back into the fire areas and stealing what was left from people who had evacuated. Disgusting.
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Post by straggler on Aug 18, 2014 18:29:46 GMT
No curfew tonight...I guess because they were all so well behaved last night in Ferguson! What a mess! And the snowball just keeps on rollin'.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2014 18:30:43 GMT
No curfew tonight...I guess because they were all so well behaved last night in Ferguson! What a mess! And the snowball just keeps on rollin'. The curfew only made things worse.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2014 18:38:20 GMT
So now we get to start the part of the cycle where business owners have to protect their life work with their own shotguns. Sigh.
Protest, folks. It's your constitutional right. You don't even have to be right or wrong to do so. You are allowed to voice your opinion on anything. But looting and throwing bombs and other harmful behavior is breaking the law. That's what brings military style tactics down on your head.
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Post by straggler on Aug 18, 2014 18:41:27 GMT
busypea, just wondering how you think a curfew made things worse? Some people did go home...others chose to disobey the law/curfew, so now we just have no law/curfew? Not being snarky, just don't follow the thought. I guess I equate it to kids...they don't obey the rules, so we do away with the rules? How does that help?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2014 18:48:52 GMT
busypea, just wondering how you think a curfew made things worse? Some people did go home...others chose to disobey the law/curfew, so now we just have no law/curfew? Not being snarky, just don't follow the thought. I guess I equate it to kids...they don't obey the rules, so we do away with the rules? How does that help? The curfew escalated violence rather than diminishing it. And it also completely ignored that the police's actions were making the situation far far worse, instead blaming it fully on the citizenry (only a small number of whom were engaging in violence/looting). From the article I linked above: "When word came that afternoon that the governor had announced a curfew, to take effect at midnight, the mood shifted to defiance and disbelief. Few thought that the curfew would do much practical good; many thought it was counterproductive, a move back to militarized police response earlier in the week. Curfew or no, the protesters felt that, with the exception of last Thursday, when Captain Ron Johnson of the Missouri State Highway Patrol, a black Ferguson native, took charge of operations, the amalgam of county and local law enforcement rolling through Ferguson had tried to clear the streets each day at dusk. On Johnson’s first night in charge, the police presence in the neighborhood was hardly visible; officers withdrew to the perimeter and removed a roadblock that had cut off Florissant Road, which runs just south of the QuikTrip. The protests that night had a giddy quality. Cars drove up and down the strip, the sounds of honking horns accompanying shouts of Brown’s name and “Hands Up, Don’t Shoot,” which has emerged as the signature slogan here."
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Just T
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Post by Just T on Aug 18, 2014 18:50:42 GMT
How did the curfew make things worse? The first night the police backed off, once they did, the looting started up after midnight. One store was looted for the second time that week. That is why the next night, a curfew was put in place.
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Just T
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Post by Just T on Aug 18, 2014 18:55:35 GMT
Sorry, but the curfew did not escalate the violence. There was violence every night last week except one, the night the Missouri State Highway patrol took over. The next night, they police finally backed off a bit, and the violence erupted that night after midnight. So, the next night, a curfew was put in place to keep people off the street after midnight. It didn't help, and there was still violence the past two nights, so now the National Guard has been called in. Maybe the thinking is that with a military presence, there won't be any violence so a curfew is no longer necessary.
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Post by Anna*Banana on Aug 18, 2014 19:03:48 GMT
Well you're right that it shouldn't. But there is every reason to believe that it did. That's why there is a civil rights investigation concurrent to the criminal investigation. Every reason to believe it did? What are the reasons? I mean, I suspect there is racial profiling going on there, but unlike you, I don't feel "there's every reason to believe". I'd like to know what you feel the reasons are.
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Just T
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Post by Just T on Aug 18, 2014 19:06:13 GMT
Something else I think is important to know, and I think that the others on this thread who live in the St. Louis area will probably agree with me, is that what is being portrayed in the national media is not always quite exactly the way things are happening that we local folks see on the St. Louis news.
For instance, last night, my husband and I had the tv on one of the local stations when the police started shooting off smoke and tear gas. They did that in response to yet again, Molotov cocktails being thrown, rocks and bricks being thrown, and then, there were gunshots from the crowd of protesters. So, even though it wasn't yet midnight (I think it was around 9, but I'm not sure) and time to enforce the curfew, the police tried to clear the streets anyway. Maybe it wasn't fair to those who were peacefully gathering, but at that point, if they didn't, who knows what would have happened. They came on their bullhorns asking people to clear the streets. Once again, some did, many did not. So then, they resorted to smoke and tear gas. My husband and I watched this all unfold for more than an hour.
Then, this morning on CNN, all one of the reporters said was "the police used smoke and tear gas to clear the streets well before the midnight curfew." Those weren't the exact words, but close. No mention at that time of the violence that erupted that caused them to need to clear the streets. I heard it several more times, by different reporters. There have been other times too where the national media left out pretty important details to a situation, making it appear different than it really happened.
So, those of you who are following this closely by national news only, keep in mind that you may not be hearing all the details.
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Post by PEArfect on Aug 18, 2014 19:46:05 GMT
The media not reporting the whole situation, the whole truth? Just a sensationalized version? No way!
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scrappinmama
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Post by scrappinmama on Aug 18, 2014 20:14:11 GMT
You most definitely can break the cycle. I'm living proof. I went to college and worked hard to get out of that neighborhood. Mentoring is the key. But it goes back to the article I posted. Programs need to be funded. But in this day, programs are being cut or reduced. I'm a minority that is also proof. My dh is a minority that was raised by a single mother and he is proof too. Neither of us attended college but we both have good jobs we've worked hard for and at. Dh is a Puerto Rican in law enforcement. Of course I'm not trying to say that education is the only way to get out. But for me, staying focused in school as a kid, kept me out of the gang mess and drugs. And going to college was the key for me to get out.
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Post by straggler on Aug 18, 2014 20:22:36 GMT
Thanks busypea for the response. I think everyone thought Johnson's presence would do more than it has done. No way to measure that though. If the protestors didn't like the militarization of police, wonder how they will like the National Guard? Will the Guard members be armed? I see WalMart has built a bank of carts and cases of water to help protect their store. Ferguson will be bankrupt when this is over.
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Post by rumplesnat on Aug 18, 2014 20:47:37 GMT
I'm just curious as to what exactly the National Guard is going to do.
These criminals are not responding to law enforcement, so are we fooling ourselves to believe that they are going to all of a sudden show respect and restraint, becoming law abiding citizens simply because the military showed up?
Is the National Guard going to use more force? Make more arrests? Mow down the crowd with tanks? I seriously don't know what they can do differently.
Honest question...the mowing down with tanks part may be far reaching, but I really don't know what different strategy they could possibly have to turn this around.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2014 20:48:15 GMT
The media not reporting the whole situation, the whole truth? Just a sensationalized version? No way! This from the person who posted a photo of someone not even related to this case stating it was Brown. Irony at it's finest.
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Post by PEArfect on Aug 18, 2014 20:58:58 GMT
The media not reporting the whole situation, the whole truth? Just a sensationalized version? No way! This from the person who posted a photo of someone not even related to this case stating it was Brown. Irony at it's finest. Exactly my point! There's always more to the story. Ridiculousness on both sides.
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