Just T
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,815
Jun 26, 2014 1:20:09 GMT
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Post by Just T on Aug 18, 2014 20:59:02 GMT
PEArfect, I'm not sure why you found it necessary to be so sarcastic. Of course, everyone knows that the media sensationalizes everything. It seems like some people who are posting on this thread are taking what they are hearing on the national news and making it out to be the "real" way things in Ferguson are happening. I was only pointing out that if you aren't in St. Louis watching the coverage we get pretty much around the clock and only basing their opinions on what they hear in the national media, they aren't getting a true picture.
Just on the example I gave about last night: If one only saw CNN's coverage of "police in Ferguson cleared the streets with tear gas well before curfew," you may have a different opinion of the police than someone local who saw what happened before the police had to resort to tear gas. I was simply trying to give a reminder that things aren't always what they seem, that is all.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Aug 18, 2014 21:39:21 GMT
People of privilege?? You are ridiculous! Oh I think that most people "get it". But how do you explain those who think that the answer is to loot and riot and pillage and commit more crimes and arson and raise an entire county into terror? What class of people does that fall under??? Think what you want...you're just proving my point. You don't get it. And let's be clear that the violence and looting is a small group of people. Most are protesting peacefully. Again, I'm not defending Michael brown specifically, or condemning police. We simply don't know exactly what happened. But if you deny racial discrimination in this case, in this city, then you are a fool. You are claiming that it is "simply don't know exactly what happened ". Yet you are quick to claim racial discrimination . That makes you a fool-judging and condemning before facts are known. You are doing nothing more than giving trial via media and heresay.
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Post by Peace Sign on Aug 18, 2014 21:42:35 GMT
No. I'm saying discrimination exists AND that we don't know exactly what happened.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Aug 18, 2014 21:47:20 GMT
No. I'm saying discrimination exists AND that we don't know exactly what happened. No, you were quite clear I stating that I was a fool if I "denied racial discrimination in this case, in this city"
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Dalai Mama
Drama Llama
La Pea Boheme
Posts: 6,985
Jun 26, 2014 0:31:31 GMT
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Post by Dalai Mama on Aug 18, 2014 21:49:19 GMT
PEArfect, I'm not sure why you found it necessary to be so sarcastic. Of course, everyone knows that the media sensationalizes everything. It seems like some people who are posting on this thread are taking what they are hearing on the national news and making it out to be the "real" way things in Ferguson are happening. I was only pointing out that if you aren't in St. Louis watching the coverage we get pretty much around the clock and only basing their opinions on what they hear in the national media, they aren't getting a true picture.
Just on the example I gave about last night: If one only saw CNN's coverage of "police in Ferguson cleared the streets with tear gas well before curfew," you may have a different opinion of the police than someone local who saw what happened before the police had to resort to tear gas. I was simply trying to give a reminder that things aren't always what they seem, that is all. I typically fall on the side of media reflecting society. People have the attention span of sugared-up toddlers so the media have to condense the news into short sensationalized sound bites. Information gets lost.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Aug 18, 2014 22:01:30 GMT
One of the issues that I think is key and may have impacted greatly the out come is Michael Brown's state of mind at the time he was walking down the road.
You have a young man, who is impeding traffic. Not a big deal, right?
Cop approaches.
Young kid KNOWS he just robbed a store with violence and intimidation. Cop moves in (presumably for the jaywalking as reports were saying he did not yet know if the robbery)
So here you have this kid, who just robbed a store, exacted violence, and has a cop moving in on him, most likely thinking he us going to be arrested for the robbery that he committed earlier. So this kids mindset, that he was not going to go peacefully (thus the scuffle with the officer) coupled that he was violent towards the officer in an attempt to get his weapon, does not succeed, a few shots are fired and THEN Starts to retreat.
It's not hard to envision this either, a criminal who does not want to be arrested and taking matters into his own hands to prevent being taken in.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 10, 2024 22:30:39 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2014 22:22:53 GMT
One of the issues that I think is key and may have impacted greatly the out come is Michael Brown's state of mind at the time he was walking down the road. You have a young man, who is impeding traffic. Not a big deal, right? Cop approaches. Young kid KNOWS he just robbed a store with violence and intimidation. Cop moves in (presumably for the jaywalking as reports were saying he did not yet know if the robbery) So here you have this kid, who just robbed a store, exacted violence, and has a cop moving in on him, most likely thinking he us going to be arrested for the robbery that he committed earlier. So this kids mindset, that he was not going to go peacefully (thus the scuffle with the officer) coupled that he was violent towards the officer in an attempt to get his weapon, does not succeed, a few shots are fired and THEN Starts to retreat. It's not hard to envision this either, a criminal who does not want to be arrested and taking matters into his own hands to prevent being taken in. This pure speculation on your part as you were not there and did not take part in the events that led up to the killing of Michael Brown. There are only 2 people who know exactly what happened and one of them is dead. And to be honest we may never know the entire story for that very reason. That is why I think it's a good idea for ALL police to wear cameras when they are on duty.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 10, 2024 22:30:39 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2014 22:24:44 GMT
One of the issues that I think is key and may have impacted greatly the out come is Michael Brown's state of mind at the time he was walking down the road. You have a young man, who is impeding traffic. Not a big deal, right? Cop approaches. Young kid KNOWS he just robbed a store with violence and intimidation. Cop moves in (presumably for the jaywalking as reports were saying he did not yet know if the robbery) So here you have this kid, who just robbed a store, exacted violence, and has a cop moving in on him, most likely thinking he us going to be arrested for the robbery that he committed earlier. So this kids mindset, that he was not going to go peacefully (thus the scuffle with the officer) coupled that he was violent towards the officer in an attempt to get his weapon, does not succeed, a few shots are fired and THEN Starts to retreat. It's not hard to envision this either, a criminal who does not want to be arrested and taking matters into his own hands to prevent being taken in. You are doing EXACTLY what you are admonishing other posters and the media here of doing. Why is okay for you do speculate but no one else?
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Post by straggler on Aug 18, 2014 22:28:38 GMT
Do National Guardsmen have bullet proof vests on when they are confronting this type of situation? Just wondering if they have that type of protective wear.
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Post by *KatyCupcake* on Aug 18, 2014 22:32:00 GMT
Well you're right that it shouldn't. But there is every reason to believe that it did. That's why there is a civil rights investigation concurrent to the criminal investigation. What evidence do we have outside of this one incident that Officer Wilson was racist and targeted blacks?
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Aug 18, 2014 22:43:57 GMT
One of the issues that I think is key and may have impacted greatly the out come is Michael Brown's state of mind at the time he was walking down the road. You have a young man, who is impeding traffic. Not a big deal, right? Cop approaches. Young kid KNOWS he just robbed a store with violence and intimidation. Cop moves in (presumably for the jaywalking as reports were saying he did not yet know if the robbery) So here you have this kid, who just robbed a store, exacted violence, and has a cop moving in on him, most likely thinking he us going to be arrested for the robbery that he committed earlier. So this kids mindset, that he was not going to go peacefully (thus the scuffle with the officer) coupled that he was violent towards the officer in an attempt to get his weapon, does not succeed, a few shots are fired and THEN Starts to retreat. It's not hard to envision this either, a criminal who does not want to be arrested and taking matters into his own hands to prevent being taken in. You are doing EXACTLY what you are admonishing other posters and the media here of doing. Why is okay for you do speculate but no one else? Not speculating that this is what happened. Why is it okay that I cannot post a summation from a different point if view of what little facts are known?
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Post by *KatyCupcake* on Aug 18, 2014 22:50:49 GMT
Why is it okay that I cannot post a summation from a different point if view of what little facts are known? I personally don't think anyone should be posting speculation or a summation when so few facts are known. I don't know what happened and neither do you. I believe in justice. I just don't think justice will happen with all this speculation flying in so many directions.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 10, 2024 22:30:39 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2014 22:54:47 GMT
Why is it okay that I cannot post a summation from a different point if view of what little facts are known? [/quote]
I believe we can all agree that there are very few facts other than a cop shot and killed a kid. That being the case what point are you trying to make? And why?
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Dalai Mama
Drama Llama
La Pea Boheme
Posts: 6,985
Jun 26, 2014 0:31:31 GMT
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Post by Dalai Mama on Aug 18, 2014 23:06:23 GMT
People of privilege?? You are ridiculous! Oh I think that most people "get it". But how do you explain those who think that the answer is to loot and riot and pillage and commit more crimes and arson and raise an entire county into terror? What class of people does that fall under??? Think what you want...you're just proving my point. You don't get it. And let's be clear that the violence and looting is a small group of people. Most are protesting peacefully. Again, I'm not defending Michael brown specifically, or condemning police. We simply don't know exactly what happened. But if you deny racial discrimination in this case, in this city, then you are a fool. You are claiming that it is "simply don't know exactly what happened ". Yet you are quick to claim racial discrimination . That makes you a fool-judging and condemning before facts are known. You are doing nothing more than giving trial via media and heresay. You know, most of your contribution to this thread is calling other people stupid. So I've got to ask, oh wise one - what exactly is 'heresay'? And how does one 'give trial'? Now, like I said on another thread, I'm not one to correct grammar but if you are going to put yourself out there by calling other people stupid, you might want to ensure that you don't come off sounding like an eighth grade illiterate yourself. Just saying.
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Post by traceys on Aug 18, 2014 23:13:07 GMT
I believe in justice. I just don't think justice will happen with all this speculation flying in so many directions. I'm not sure either. I think many people have already made up their minds as to what "justice" is, and any other outcome is not legitimate.
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Post by *KatyCupcake* on Aug 18, 2014 23:20:34 GMT
I believe in justice. I just don't think justice will happen with all this speculation flying in so many directions. I'm not sure either. I think many people have already made up their minds as to what "justice" is, and any other outcome is not legitimate. Very true. I'm personally not ruling anything out. It could have been racial profiling by a power tripping cop gone from jerk to killer. It could have been a 6'4" 300 lb kid who had just robbed a store felt he was invincible and assaulted an officer. The evidence so far is being used to defend both positions and it's likely that the truth lies somewhere in between. So I'm going to stick to saying I don't know.
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scrappinmama
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,026
Jun 26, 2014 12:54:09 GMT
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Post by scrappinmama on Aug 18, 2014 23:46:54 GMT
I have seeking that we will never know the full story.
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stittsygirl
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,600
Location: In the leaves and rain.
Jun 25, 2014 19:57:33 GMT
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Post by stittsygirl on Aug 19, 2014 0:04:17 GMT
There is a gunshot wound in Michael Brown's arm that appears to have entered back-to-front, per the medical examiner and forensic pathologist, which would be consistent with the three initial eyewitness statements that Brown appeared to have been shot from behind as he fled, before turning around to face the officer. Autopsy Press Conference
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 10, 2024 22:30:39 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2014 0:07:30 GMT
I think I'll join the others in stopping my speculation and just wait for the factual answers.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 10, 2024 22:30:39 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2014 0:13:58 GMT
Not speculating? You must be joking. You are saying what the deceased victim's mindset was. NO ONE knows that. The only person who did is now dead.
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Post by M~ on Aug 19, 2014 0:32:54 GMT
Let me just paraphrase my Federal CrimPro professor for a minute: "Even a pig has rights." I'm not calling anyone a pig (either the police or MB), the point is that whether MB was guilty of robbing a store, looting, raping, murdering, etc. he had rights. Rights which the government (i.e., a police officer) had no authority to take away without due process. That, for me, is what this and any other case like this boils down to. There are parameters within which police officers are required to act; any action outside those parameters is absolutely, unequivocally wrong.
I have friends who are prosecutors and have friends who are defense attorneys. Neither set of friends place 100% trust in a police officer's words. Neither do I. The problem here is that the police is not acting with clean hands.
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ginacivey
Pearl Clutcher
refupea #2 in southeast missouri
Posts: 4,685
Jun 25, 2014 19:18:36 GMT
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Post by ginacivey on Aug 19, 2014 1:19:44 GMT
I agree with mrs t
i dont' think cnn is reporting the events the way the local stations are
have any of you watched any local reporting?
reading some of your conjectures makes me wonder
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Post by mollycoddle on Aug 19, 2014 1:27:42 GMT
I watched CNN last night when Don Lemon interviewed law enforcement and on/off today. I am trying to hold off judgment too. I hope the FBI and/or DOJ handles the investigation and there is transparency. There seems to be conflicting information mostly coming from the Chief in Ferguson. I think this situation was badly handled locally. Captain Ron Johnson of the Missouri Highway Patrol has been a voice of reason and is in charge of keeping peace during the protests. I said to my husband it feels like the 1960's again. I keep thinking of Chicago, '68.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Aug 19, 2014 2:11:46 GMT
I'm not sure either. I think many people have already made up their minds as to what "justice" is, and any other outcome is not legitimate. Very true. I'm personally not ruling anything out. It could have been racial profiling by a power tripping cop gone from jerk to killer. It could have been a 6'4" 300 lb kid who had just robbed a store felt he was invincible and assaulted an officer. The evidence so far is being used to defend both positions and it's likely that the truth lies somewhere in between. So I'm going to stick to saying I don't know. I can totally agree with this!
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Aug 19, 2014 2:20:35 GMT
You are claiming that it is "simply don't know exactly what happened ". Yet you are quick to claim racial discrimination . That makes you a fool-judging and condemning before facts are known. You are doing nothing more than giving trial via media and heresay. You know, most of your contribution to this thread is calling other people stupid. So I've got to ask, oh wise one - what exactly is 'heresay'? And how does one 'give trial'? Now, like I said on another thread, I'm not one to correct grammar but if you are going to put yourself out there by calling other people stupid, you might want to ensure that you don't come off sounding like an eighth grade illiterate yourself. Just saying. One post where my words might not be clear to you and I am labeled and 8th grade illiterate. I thought better of you Dalai Mama. Giving trial via media = condemning, being judge and jury based on what has been portrayed in the media, which is what is happening EVERYWHERE on this issue. My apologies for not being crystal clear. Heresay-going by witness accounts of people who were not there, have gotten their information by so many sources that no one really knows what is true or not. I am really surprised that my little old illiterate self has to explain these two things, especially to you. Now for in general. Referencing the OP of what I quoted as a fool. I was not out just to calling her stupid (that was reserved for lizandjuan, because well, she was being stupid) I was referencing her words back to her based on her post, you can go look back if you are so inclined to read the actual context of the convo/thread.
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Post by M~ on Aug 19, 2014 2:24:28 GMT
You know, most of your contribution to this thread is calling other people stupid. So I've got to ask, oh wise one - what exactly is 'heresay'? And how does one 'give trial'? Now, like I said on another thread, I'm not one to correct grammar but if you are going to put yourself out there by calling other people stupid, you might want to ensure that you don't come off sounding like an eighth grade illiterate yourself. Just saying. One post where my words might not be clear to you and I am labeled and 8th grade illiterate. I thought better of you Dalai Mama. Giving trial via media = condemning, being judge and jury based on what has been portrayed in the media, which is what is happening EVERYWHERE on this issue. My apologies for not being crystal clear. Heresay-going by witness accounts of people who were not there, have gotten their information by so many sources that no one really knows what is true or not. I am really surprised that my little old illiterate self has to explain these two things, especially to you. Now for in general. Referencing the OP of what I quoted as a fool. I was not out just to calling her stupid (that was reserved for lizandjuan, because well, she was being stupid) I was referencing her words back to her based on her post, you can go look back if you are so inclined to read the actual context of the convo/thread. You're killing me. HEARsay. HEARsay. That is all. Please continue.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Aug 19, 2014 2:26:44 GMT
Not speculating? You must be joking. You are saying what the deceased victim's mindset was. NO ONE knows that. The only person who did is now dead. NO, I am most certainly NOT saying what the deceased person's mindset was--I would have to be psychic to do that--i was proposing another facet of conversation, just like many of the posters here are doing. I had overheard this being discussed while I was out this morning by a group of people and it made me wonder. I find it just as awful that people are speculating that the police officer is a racist, that he targeted the boy. I find it horrible that there are people who are protesting, looting, rioting, and burning shit down in that city. I find it terrifying that death threats are being made.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Aug 19, 2014 2:55:20 GMT
One post where my words might not be clear to you and I am labeled and 8th grade illiterate. I thought better of you Dalai Mama. Giving trial via media = condemning, being judge and jury based on what has been portrayed in the media, which is what is happening EVERYWHERE on this issue. My apologies for not being crystal clear. Heresay-going by witness accounts of people who were not there, have gotten their information by so many sources that no one really knows what is true or not. I am really surprised that my little old illiterate self has to explain these two things, especially to you. Now for in general. Referencing the OP of what I quoted as a fool. I was not out just to calling her stupid (that was reserved for lizandjuan, because well, she was being stupid) I was referencing her words back to her based on her post, you can go look back if you are so inclined to read the actual context of the convo/thread. You're killing me. HEARsay. HEARsay. That is all. Please continue. So glad that my spell check error gives you so much pleasure to point it out. You like picking on people don't you?
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Post by M~ on Aug 19, 2014 3:02:18 GMT
You're killing me. HEARsay. HEARsay. That is all. Please continue. So glad that my spell check error gives you so much pleasure to point it out. You like picking on people don't you? Not particularly. I'm a big advocate of only using words I know how to spell. Shrug. ETA: I highly doubt it's a spellcheck error. I don't think "heresay" is a word in the English language. Maybe heresy. As in "it's a heresy that you don't know how to spell hearsay." I've never heard of "heresay" though. (insert puzzled look)
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Aug 19, 2014 3:11:43 GMT
So glad that my spell check error gives you so much pleasure to point it out. You like picking on people don't you? Not particularly. I'm a big advocate of only using words I know how to spell. Shrug. ETA: I highly doubt it's a spellcheck error. I don't think "heresay" is a word in the English language. Maybe heresy. As in "it's a heresy that you don't know how to spell hearsay." I've never heard of "heresay" though. (insert puzzled look) Well, thanks for pointing it out. Again. When posting from a phone, it is a spell check error, but {shrug} I doubt that matters to you. I do deeply apologize that I cannot be 100% perfect in my grammar and spelling 100% of the time, like you are or are professing to be as grammar police. You just keep on making those corrections and call outs when you see it, it makes you look AWESOME!
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