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Post by monklady123 on Feb 8, 2017 10:55:11 GMT
Our district coughed up a HUGE amount of property tax money in recent years specifically for funding our local public schools. It absolutely infuriates me to think that any of that money could possibly be siphoned off and spent on vouchers for religious private schools. It will be no surprise if future referendums for our schools and kids will be voted down based on this one factor, and my kid and her classmates will ultimately be the ones who pay the price. Vouchers are fabulous. Parents can choose the schools they feel are best for their children. You have the same choice. I don't see a problem giving parents more choices. Vouchers may be "fabulous" in large urban areas where there are a lot of other schools (although I don't think they're "fabulous" even there...). But what about in smaller towns or rural areas? In the small college town where my dd is in school there are public schools, one private school (expensive), and I think a Catholic school. That's it. So where do those public school kids use their vouchers?
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Post by monklady123 on Feb 8, 2017 11:01:17 GMT
The whole thing about vouchers and charters that really ticks me off is that a system that assumes that a private or charter school will be better is a system that is placing the blame for students' failure solely and squarely at the feet of teachers. Again. The single biggest predictor of success in school is family income. Second place isn't even close - and BTW, second place isn't teacher quality, it's parental education level, and third is parental involvement. We don't have an education problem; we have a poverty problem and a disengagement problem. You could take every child out of every "failing" public school in this country tomorrow and put them in a charter or private school and very little would change. Charter school teachers do not have some magic wand to wave that suddenly makes a kid with dirty clothes, and not enough to eat, and no books in his home, and no one to read them to him if he had them, vault over the three grade levels he's behind. Address the root causes of poverty and you'll fix a lot of the problems in education. BUT depriving us of funding isn't helping, either. A good teacher can do a lot but she can't do it very well with 28 kids in a first grade classroom, no materials, a leaky roof, not enough desks, etc. And those problems will only get worse if we start siphoning money to charter and private schools under the misguided assumption that those teachers have some kind of magic that the public school teachers do not.
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Post by monklady123 on Feb 8, 2017 11:13:22 GMT
I don't think Foundation for Excellence in Education which is Jeb Bush's fits that description. I think Education Freedom Fund probably does - but keep in mind I'm not from Michigan. I've never heard of Betsy DeVos before her nomination so do not claim to be any kind of expert on her history. It says right on the home page of their website: That sounds pretty churchy to me. I've also seen somewhere the quote that she said -- or her organization said -- about "furthering the kingdom of God on earth" or something like that. Both that and talking about someone's "God-given potential" are "churchy" words. (lol) The thing is....as a Christian I do believe everyone has a "God-given potential". And I believe that everything I do that works for justice or helps the needy (donating to or helping at the food bank, etc.) or my substitute teacher job at elementary school is working to "further the kingdom of God on earth." That's my personal belief. However, unless I'm working at the soup kitchen sponsored by a local church I'm not going to put that out loud! As a substitute teacher in a public school I'm not going in there talking about God, I go there to help the real teachers teach these children language arts and math and social studies. I believe that anything we do that puts kindness into the world, that helps children, that helps the sick and needy, etc. is "furthering the kingdom of God." But I don't have to talk about that unless I'm in church, I just go do it. In my denomination we call this "living the Gospel". The Jewish people do the same although obviously they have another name for it (which I'm blanking on at the moment....) Not too long ago I got into a discussion with someone on a mutual friend's FB page. She made the comment that annoys the heck out of me, "we kicked God out of the schools and this is what happened...." I replied with my usual "how do we 'kick God out" of anywhere?" Then I said that we can't just go into public schools and require Christian prayer because so many children aren't Christian. Her reply to that was "and you've just identified the problem." She truly believed that the problem was that so many children are not Christian. At my school we have Jewish kids and Muslim kids and kids whose parents aren't anything in particular and kids whose parents are staunch atheists. DeVos and her type truly believe that all these children need to be under the influence of overt Christian prayers and practices. THIS is the scariest thing about her and her type. They believe that the country needs to go back to being a Christian country (their words -- "go back"). There is no room in their mindset for anyone who is "other".
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pyccku
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,817
Jun 27, 2014 23:12:07 GMT
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Post by pyccku on Feb 8, 2017 11:24:26 GMT
I'm just waiting for the satanic temple to open up a charter school. Then we will see how quickly that wall between church and state goes up again.
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teddyw
Drama Llama
Posts: 7,052
Jun 29, 2014 1:56:04 GMT
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Post by teddyw on Feb 8, 2017 11:54:41 GMT
Maybe she won't last long. One can hope.
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Post by Merge on Feb 8, 2017 12:25:05 GMT
The whole thing about vouchers and charters that really ticks me off is that a system that assumes that a private or charter school will be better is a system that is placing the blame for students' failure solely and squarely at the feet of teachers. Again. The single biggest predictor of success in school is family income. Second place isn't even close - and BTW, second place isn't teacher quality, it's parental education level, and third is parental involvement. We don't have an education problem; we have a poverty problem and a disengagement problem. You could take every child out of every "failing" public school in this country tomorrow and put them in a charter or private school and very little would change. Charter school teachers do not have some magic wand to wave that suddenly makes a kid with dirty clothes, and not enough to eat, and no books in his home, and no one to read them to him if he had them, vault over the three grade levels he's behind. Address the root causes of poverty and you'll fix a lot of the problems in education. BUT depriving us of funding isn't helping, either. A good teacher can do a lot but she can't do it very well with 28 kids in a first grade classroom, no materials, a leaky roof, not enough desks, etc. And those problems will only get worse if we start siphoning money to charter and private schools under the misguided assumption that those teachers have some kind of magic that the public school teachers do not. This is what I've been trying to explain to people all day. It's just going to increase the divide between the haves and have nots, further ensuring the have nots will never have. It's sad, and why don't people care? Is it selfishness? In some cases it's selfishness, and in some cases it's just that they aren't aware of the drawbacks or haven't thought it through. Houston is kind of a test lab for urban school choice. We don't have vouchers (yet - Greg Abbott is working on it), but we have a school district with a robust magnet school program (some public schools pull students and funding from other public schools), and a wide variety of public charter options, including some of the most "successful" (KIPP, YES Prep, Harmony Schools). And we have a lot of small, independent charters as well. The charters also pull students and funding from the regular public schools. I've been able to demonstrate to some conservative friends and family members who thought that "school choice would be so great for those inner city kids" that things actually get worse for a large portion of the population when you skim the wealthiest, most motivated, most engaged kids and families off the top and put them and their funding in what is essentially a separate school system. What's happened is that some public schools have beautiful facilities with lots of electives offered, a gorgeous library, plenty of interventionists for any student lagging behind, etc., and others are left with no music, art or PE, no school nurse, no library, no interventionists, no counselor ... but they're all public schools in the same district. And the kids left in the neighborhood school stripped of all the "extras" are the ones whose parents work two jobs or who aren't around much for other reasons, and they don't have the time/means/motivation to go through the process to get them to a magnet school, and even if they did, well, Johnny has some behavior and/or learning issues and he'll get bounced back to his regular school by the end of the year. This is what happens with "school choice." It's really only choice for a few. And everyone else suffers.
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Post by snugglebutter on Feb 8, 2017 13:37:07 GMT
Merge, that's a pretty accurate description of our district too. (just outside of Dallas) The disparity just among the elementary schools is staggering.
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Just T
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,801
Jun 26, 2014 1:20:09 GMT
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Post by Just T on Feb 8, 2017 13:45:44 GMT
I am not much of a spreadsheet keeper, but aren't you the person who got on your high horse several years ago to demand that your daughter's school make her lunches (that she got for FREE by the way) accommodate her special dietary needs?
How would that fly in a private school? I live in an area with lots of private schools, both elementary and high schools. I know people who sent/send their kids to private schools. Most of them are very expensive, and I highly doubt they serve free lunches. And I doubt they will start just because people will use vouchers who otherwise can't afford those schools. I also highly doubt a voucher would cover the cost of tuition as most of them are at least $10,000 PER STUDENT. So how would that work in a family of say 3 kids? Do you think the vouchers are going to cover $30,000. Again, highly doubtful.
And let's talk transportation. Those I know who send their children to private high schools often drive them 30-45 minutes each way, and that's on a good traffic day. They don't provide bus transportation. So even if a family can squeak enough out of their budget to cover what the vouchers do not, what are the logistics of getting them to school, the money in gas, wear and tear on their car, etc, along with trying to get them to and from school around getting themselves to work. Not all cities have extensive public transportation.
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Post by Darcy Collins on Feb 8, 2017 14:02:55 GMT
I don't think Foundation for Excellence in Education which is Jeb Bush's fits that description. I think Education Freedom Fund probably does - but keep in mind I'm not from Michigan. I've never heard of Betsy DeVos before her nomination so do not claim to be any kind of expert on her history. It says right on the home page of their website: That sounds pretty churchy to me. Equating "god-given potential" to religion based organizations advocating for getting more kids into private, religious based schools? is a stretch. If you found the website I'm sure you can see they're more than that - Bill Gates is one of their major donors and he's certainly not a religious right wing nut.
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Post by mimi3566 on Feb 8, 2017 14:03:09 GMT
That's how my dd feels...she homeschools her kids and has done so for several years.
Sad, nonetheless for those that don't have that opportunity.
EXACTLY! Being able to home school is a privilege a great many people just don't have! I couldn't agree with you more. My dd is greatly appreciative that she is in the position both logistically, financially and academically to be able to do this for her children.
She is a scholar herself and at 35 is always researching and teaching herself everyday making her very qualified to teach. She is very disciplined and has a "classroom" at home as she has 3 boys at different academic levels which takes great discipline and organization to pull together. They belong to a co-op that gathers a couple of days a week for group classes such as Spanish and Art classes in addition to group field trips. They also organize holiday parties. The kids are getting a very good education in addition to socialization. She is very blessed and doesn't take it for granted.
She understands that DeVos' confirmation jeopardizes all the children that rely on the public school and is not happy about this at all.
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Post by mimi3566 on Feb 8, 2017 14:05:50 GMT
The whole thing about vouchers and charters that really ticks me off is that a system that assumes that a private or charter school will be better is a system that is placing the blame for students' failure solely and squarely at the feet of teachers. Again. The single biggest predictor of success in school is family income. Second place isn't even close - and BTW, second place isn't teacher quality, it's parental education level, and third is parental involvement. We don't have an education problem; we have a poverty problem and a disengagement problem. You could take every child out of every "failing" public school in this country tomorrow and put them in a charter or private school and very little would change. Charter school teachers do not have some magic wand to wave that suddenly makes a kid with dirty clothes, and not enough to eat, and no books in his home, and no one to read them to him if he had them, vault over the three grade levels he's behind. Address the root causes of poverty and you'll fix a lot of the problems in education. BUT depriving us of funding isn't helping, either. A good teacher can do a lot but she can't do it very well with 28 kids in a first grade classroom, no materials, a leaky roof, not enough desks, etc. And those problems will only get worse if we start siphoning money to charter and private schools under the misguided assumption that those teachers have some kind of magic that the public school teachers do not. This is one of the most thought provoking, honest response to the whole education system in this country. Bravo!!!
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Deleted
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Sept 28, 2024 13:40:37 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2017 14:10:19 GMT
I'm just waiting for the satanic temple to open up a charter school. Then we will see how quickly that wall between church and state goes up again. Exactly this! Christians think their religion is the only one that will pop up w/Church schools. But any religion can do the same and claim to the same funds since the government cannot favor one religion over others based on the Establishment clause. Saying only Christian schools can be funded goes smack against Establishment. Until they clean out the judiciary, at least.
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Deleted
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Sept 28, 2024 13:40:37 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2017 14:13:54 GMT
The whole thing about vouchers and charters that really ticks me off is that a system that assumes that a private or charter school will be better is a system that is placing the blame for students' failure solely and squarely at the feet of teachers. Again. The single biggest predictor of success in school is family income. Second place isn't even close - and BTW, second place isn't teacher quality, it's parental education level, and third is parental involvement. We don't have an education problem; we have a poverty problem and a disengagement problem. You could take every child out of every "failing" public school in this country tomorrow and put them in a charter or private school and very little would change. Charter school teachers do not have some magic wand to wave that suddenly makes a kid with dirty clothes, and not enough to eat, and no books in his home, and no one to read them to him if he had them, vault over the three grade levels he's behind. Address the root causes of poverty and you'll fix a lot of the problems in education. BUT depriving us of funding isn't helping, either. A good teacher can do a lot but she can't do it very well with 28 kids in a first grade classroom, no materials, a leaky roof, not enough desks, etc. And those problems will only get worse if we start siphoning money to charter and private schools under the misguided assumption that those teachers have some kind of magic that the public school teachers do not. I wish we could paste this on every light pole in America.
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Post by compeateropeator on Feb 8, 2017 14:16:46 GMT
Our district coughed up a HUGE amount of property tax money in recent years specifically for funding our local public schools. It absolutely infuriates me to think that any of that money could possibly be siphoned off and spent on vouchers for religious private schools. It will be no surprise if future referendums for our schools and kids will be voted down based on this one factor, and my kid and her classmates will ultimately be the ones who pay the price. Vouchers are fabulous. Parents can choose the schools they feel are best for their children. You have the same choice. I don't see a problem giving parents more choices. As someone who has paid property taxes and never had a child in the school system I have always been told (and it has been my belief) that it is our obligation as country to make sure that all of our children have access to a good public education. That is the importance of public schools, they will educate all no matter where the parents fall in the "class" system and if you want something different for your child that should be your responsibility. Now instead of building up our public schools we are trying to tear them down at the expense of those children that need it the most and have no other "options". The education gap between the "classes" will increase and those kids most vulnerable (through no fault of their own) will have much less of a chance to succeed. For a country where many are so vocal about saving children, we seem to be hell bent on giving up on those that need help/saving the most. I would prefer my money to go to a good and vibrant public education system and not funding parents' choices. If your choice is to send your child to an alternate school or home school them that is your choice and should be on your dime.
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twinsmomfla99
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,078
Jun 26, 2014 13:42:47 GMT
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Post by twinsmomfla99 on Feb 8, 2017 14:21:51 GMT
I'm just waiting for the satanic temple to open up a charter school. Then we will see how quickly that wall between church and state goes up again. Actually, there are Muslim schools already operating in the United States that would qualify for these funds. I wonder what will happen when they apply for them?
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amom23
Drama Llama
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Member is Online
Jun 27, 2014 12:39:18 GMT
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Post by amom23 on Feb 8, 2017 14:23:43 GMT
From where I live there isn't anything but public schools within a 2 hour radius. How the hell is a voucher and "school choice" going to help my family? I'm waiting???
There are thousands of rural families just like us who depend on good public schools to educate our children. All of our tax dollars help fund our local PUBLIC school and our school is so much better because of it.
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Post by Princess Amy on Feb 8, 2017 14:37:44 GMT
The whole thing about vouchers and charters that really ticks me off is that a system that assumes that a private or charter school will be better is a system that is placing the blame for students' failure solely and squarely at the feet of teachers. Again. The single biggest predictor of success in school is family income. Second place isn't even close - and BTW, second place isn't teacher quality, it's parental education level, and third is parental involvement. We don't have an education problem; we have a poverty problem and a disengagement problem. You could take every child out of every "failing" public school in this country tomorrow and put them in a charter or private school and very little would change. Charter school teachers do not have some magic wand to wave that suddenly makes a kid with dirty clothes, and not enough to eat, and no books in his home, and no one to read them to him if he had them, vault over the three grade levels he's behind. Address the root causes of poverty and you'll fix a lot of the problems in education. BUT depriving us of funding isn't helping, either. A good teacher can do a lot but she can't do it very well with 28 kids in a first grade classroom, no materials, a leaky roof, not enough desks, etc. And those problems will only get worse if we start siphoning money to charter and private schools under the misguided assumption that those teachers have some kind of magic that the public school teachers do not. This. Exactly. I see crushing poverty daily as I provide early intervention services in home settings. These kids are behind from the day they're born. Families of all income levels are highly disengaged. Electronic toys, apps and tv will not teach your child appropriate developmental skills. I'm so frustrated and weary.
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Post by Darcy Collins on Feb 8, 2017 14:54:19 GMT
The other part to layer into this discussion about vouchers is how each states' constitution will factor in. I know a school district in Colorado piloted a voucher program and it was struck down as public funding of religious institutions was a violation of the STATE constitution. I think they revamped it so that the vouchers could only go to secular institutions.
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Feb 8, 2017 15:09:06 GMT
From where I live there isn't anything but public schools within a 2 hour radius. How the hell is a voucher and "school choice" going to help my family? I'm waiting??? There are thousands of rural families just like us who depend on good public schools to educate our children. All of our tax dollars help fund our local PUBLIC school and our school is so much better because of it. I've been wondering about this as well. I would assume that not much would change in regards to funding since there are no other choices (at least no changes based on the voucher system-they could change the amount of overall funding, I suppose). I grew up in rural Iowa. Most towns didn't have other options, but there are several that do have Christian schools. My assumption is that the public schools in those towns would lose Funding (from the students who already go there, as well as students who would switch). Like others have said, this could cause big problems, even in schools that are doing well now. Where I live now, there is a large town that has failing public schools (particularly the elementary schools) and two other towns that are connected that have much higher rated schools. Many people are leaving the larger town to move to the other towns because of the schools. I get that (and I live in one of the other two towns, and have since prior to my kids starting school) but it is doing nothing to help the schools in the larger town. They now have a higher proportion of students who are not English speakers, have special needs, live in poverty or have uninvolved parents. And test scores that don't look good.
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pyccku
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,817
Jun 27, 2014 23:12:07 GMT
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Post by pyccku on Feb 8, 2017 15:20:36 GMT
I'm just waiting for the satanic temple to open up a charter school. Then we will see how quickly that wall between church and state goes up again. Actually, there are Muslim schools already operating in the United States that would qualify for these funds. I wonder what will happen when they apply for them? I'm sure they will. But I think the Satanic temple will do it just to stick a finger in the eye of those who think this is a great idea. They'll figure out just the right way to make the point and it will be very uncomfortable for some people to admit that they really can't defend denying them (that's assuming that the Constitution is still a thing).
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Post by crazy4scraps on Feb 8, 2017 15:25:30 GMT
Our district coughed up a HUGE amount of property tax money in recent years specifically for funding our local public schools. It absolutely infuriates me to think that any of that money could possibly be siphoned off and spent on vouchers for religious private schools. It will be no surprise if future referendums for our schools and kids will be voted down based on this one factor, and my kid and her classmates will ultimately be the ones who pay the price. Vouchers are fabulous. Parents can choose the schools they feel are best for their children. You have the same choice. I don't see a problem giving parents more choices. Vouchers are a fabulous deal for people who can afford to send their child to the private school of their choice anyway. For me and my family? Not so much. The base tuition at the three private schools closest to me cost roughly $4500, $4900 and $5500 PER YEAR, per kid. And that's not counting uniforms, transportation, lunches, annual student fees and all the myriad fundraisers all of these schools force the families to support every.stinking.year.all.year.long. My kid is in first grade, and to send her to even the cheapest one of those schools would amount to over $30K + for the next seven years, not counting the inevitable increases in tuition from year to year. And that's just GRADE school, all the private high schools around here are more like $12,000 a year or more base tuition. Any extra money we do have goes into a college fund so we can help her out paying for school later on when our only option is to pay tuition. Not to mention the fact that I'm still personally bitter over the fact that my parents basically gave what should have been my college fund to the lousy private grade school they sent me to for seven years, where I skated by year after year unchallenged, miserable and bored out of my skull. Sorry, but no thanks. We are extremely lucky that we were able to move when and where we did. We're in one of the best school districts in our state so our kid is able to enjoy a wonderful school experience at our community school. We have a friend that teaches special ed at an inner city (public) charter school that serves primarily low income kids from immigrant families. She fights and fights for those kids daily to help them get what they need. Some of the stories she has shared with us are enough to break your heart, but it's not due to her lack of dedication or anything with the school itself. Every issue those kids have is directly due to the fact that they are unable for so many reasons to come to school every day prepared to learn. Those kids have no other choice, vouchers will never change that, and for them that school IS their safety net.
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Post by Darcy Collins on Feb 8, 2017 15:42:44 GMT
Vouchers are fabulous. Parents can choose the schools they feel are best for their children. You have the same choice. I don't see a problem giving parents more choices. Vouchers are a fabulous deal for people who can afford to send their child to the private school of their choice anyway. For me and my family? Not so much. The base tuition at the three private schools closest to me cost roughly $4500, $4900 and $5500 PER YEAR, per kid. And that's not counting uniforms, transportation, lunches, annual student fees and all the myriad fundraisers all of these schools force the families to support every.stinking.year.all.year.long. My kid is in first grade, and to send her to even the cheapest one of those schools would amount to over $30K + for the next seven years, not counting the inevitable increases in tuition from year to year. And that's just GRADE school, all the private high schools around here are more like $12,000 a year or more base tuition. Any extra money we do have goes into a college fund so we can help her out paying for school later on when our only option is to pay tuition. ... I'm not sure why you think vouchers wouldn't help you. Of the states that passed them, many are equal to the per pupil funding for the state (which varies between $6,000 and 19,000 depending on state). Some cap the amount - but most of the caps are $4,500 or more. So you're an example of someone who actually COULD take the $4,500 voucher down to your local private school. Now the two private schools around here are $17,000 and 19,000 - I think the parochial schools are around $13,000 and there's a Jewish high school which is around $15,000 a year. Our state is low on per pupil funding - so even if the voucher was 100% of per pupil funding, it wouldn't pay the full cost of even a religious school.
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Post by Darcy Collins on Feb 8, 2017 15:48:53 GMT
I didn't realize just how varied some of the voucher programs are that different states have implemented. I also didn't know that some do not allow schools to charge more than the voucher (some states make that dependent on family income) - I also didn't realize that some states require a pretty robust accountability. There's a chart here on how different states have implemented vouchers: www.ncsl.org/research/education/voucher-law-comparison.aspxDo we have any Milwaukee peas? The district there appears to have rolled out a pretty robust voucher program - I'm curious what those in the area think of it.
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amom23
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Post by amom23 on Feb 8, 2017 15:54:06 GMT
Vouchers are a fabulous deal for people who can afford to send their child to the private school of their choice anyway. For me and my family? Not so much. The base tuition at the three private schools closest to me cost roughly $4500, $4900 and $5500 PER YEAR, per kid. And that's not counting uniforms, transportation, lunches, annual student fees and all the myriad fundraisers all of these schools force the families to support every.stinking.year.all.year.long. My kid is in first grade, and to send her to even the cheapest one of those schools would amount to over $30K + for the next seven years, not counting the inevitable increases in tuition from year to year. And that's just GRADE school, all the private high schools around here are more like $12,000 a year or more base tuition. Any extra money we do have goes into a college fund so we can help her out paying for school later on when our only option is to pay tuition. ... I'm not sure why you think vouchers wouldn't help you. Of the states that passed them, many are equal to the per pupil funding for the state (which varies between $6,000 and 19,000 depending on state). Some cap the amount - but most of the caps are $4,500 or more. So you're an example of someone who actually COULD take the $4,500 voucher down to your local private school. Now the two private schools around here are $17,000 and 19,000 - I think the parochial schools are around $13,000 and there's a Jewish high school which is around $15,000 a year. Our state is low on per pupil funding - so even if the voucher was 100% of per pupil funding, it wouldn't pay the full cost of even a religious school. So if we go with your theory and say said family can now afford to send their child to a private school - who's to say all these "private" schools are going to accept all these new students? I can't imagine they will have the space or staff to take all the former public school students. Private schools can pick and chose and do so. It's ridiculous to think vouchers are the solution to problems with the US education system.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Sept 28, 2024 13:40:37 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2017 15:54:17 GMT
anmore You are outside Buffalo correct??? I am thinking this is Williamsville right?? Nope - Ken-Ton. Former home of Steve Acromovitch, and Dr. "Cinco de Mayo" Jetter - both of whom bounced thru Hamburg. I would love if Martzloff came here.
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Post by crazy4scraps on Feb 8, 2017 15:56:37 GMT
It says right on the home page of their website: That sounds pretty churchy to me. Equating "god-given potential" to religion based organizations advocating for getting more kids into private, religious based schools? is a stretch. If you found the website I'm sure you can see they're more than that - Bill Gates is one of their major donors and he's certainly not a religious right wing nut. I respectfully disagree, when she herself has said that her goal is to "advance God's kingdom." From an article in Politico: Everything she has done has had religion injected into it. See also the following. I can't imagine someone like her would spend any time, money or effort on an organization that didn't support her primary goals.
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Post by Darcy Collins on Feb 8, 2017 16:02:28 GMT
Equating "god-given potential" to religion based organizations advocating for getting more kids into private, religious based schools? is a stretch. If you found the website I'm sure you can see they're more than that - Bill Gates is one of their major donors and he's certainly not a religious right wing nut. I respectfully disagree, when she herself has said that her goal is to "advance God's kingdom." From an article in Politico: Everything she has done has had religion injected into it. See also the following. I can't imagine someone like her would spend any time, money or effort on an organization that didn't support her primary goals. And I can't imagine Warren Buffet, Michael Bloomberg and Bill Gates would donate millions of dollars to an organization that does nothing more than funnel kids into religious schools. I think painting specifically the Foundation for Excellence in Education with every wackadoodle thing Betsy DeVos has ever said is wrong.
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Just T
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,801
Jun 26, 2014 1:20:09 GMT
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Post by Just T on Feb 8, 2017 16:08:04 GMT
I'm not sure why you think vouchers wouldn't help you. Of the states that passed them, many are equal to the per pupil funding for the state (which varies between $6,000 and 19,000 depending on state). Some cap the amount - but most of the caps are $4,500 or more. So you're an example of someone who actually COULD take the $4,500 voucher down to your local private school. Now the two private schools around here are $17,000 and 19,000 - I think the parochial schools are around $13,000 and there's a Jewish high school which is around $15,000 a year. Our state is low on per pupil funding - so even if the voucher was 100% of per pupil funding, it wouldn't pay the full cost of even a religious school. So if we go with your theory and say said family can now afford to send their child to a private school - who's to say all these "private" schools are going to accept all these new students? I can't imagine they will have the space or staff to take all the former public school students. Private schools can pick and chose and do so. It's ridiculous to think vouchers are the solution to problems with the US education system. That is an excellent point, too. Around here, getting into some of the private high schools is already SO competitive. There are numerous all boys and all girls schools, that are Catholic, and it is like trying to get into college at most of them. Kids spend their 7th and 8th grade year stressed out hoping they get into the school they want. How are those schools going to accommodate even more students trying to get in? And some of these schools (most of them) cost over $1200 a year. One that I know of is closer to $20,000. Those $4500 vouchers aren't going to do most people a whole lot of good once their kids are out of elementary school. I guess we will go back to the days of our my grandparents when it was not uncommon to only go to school through the 8th grade.
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Rainbow
Pearl Clutcher
Where salt is in the air and sand is at my feet...
Posts: 4,103
Jun 26, 2014 5:57:41 GMT
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Post by Rainbow on Feb 8, 2017 16:13:21 GMT
Vouchers are fabulous. Parents can choose the schools they feel are best for their children. You have the same choice. I don't see a problem giving parents more choices. What happens when the voucher you are given will not cover the full tuition for any of the other schools in the area and you can't make up the difference and the public schools have either folded or are completely shitty due to lack of funds and bad teachers? What then? I think they're pretty bad right now. I'm glad for more options. I very much doubt public schools will go away completely. Bad teachers? Start the process to get rid of them.
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Rainbow
Pearl Clutcher
Where salt is in the air and sand is at my feet...
Posts: 4,103
Jun 26, 2014 5:57:41 GMT
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Post by Rainbow on Feb 8, 2017 16:17:30 GMT
Or, let's say your kid has some kind of disability. Public schools all close, and all that's left are private and charter schools. And IDEA is now gone. There is nothing stopping the private and charter schools from refusing to accept that kid with the disability. It's too hard and too much money to educate non-typical kids. Even if you have a voucher that says you can have access to that school. What then? Does that child not also deserve to be educated in this country? Forgive me if I'm wrong, but your child has vision issues right Rainbow? I would think as someone with a child who has a disability you would be a little bit more concerned about this. Unless you homeschool. In which case it probably won't affect you. Public school will never totally go away. I don't see that happening. The kidlet does have vision issues and if her school didn't address it I would do it myself. There is always a way besides public school, it isn't the be all end all of everything. It is only one option.
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