|
Post by pierkiss on Feb 8, 2017 18:49:52 GMT
Thinking about this further, there is something I haven't seen addressed anywhere. No one is taking into account the fact that ALL of the parents who are currently paying the full ride for their kids to go to private school will now, OF COURSE, take advantage of any state or federal education vouchers that become available to offset their costs. This is money that is currently being used to fund the public schools for all kids in public school (for the greater good, I might add) whether all the kids go to those schools or not. So since we're talking about giving vouchers to EVERY school aged child, all coming OUT of the public school pot but not necessarily going back IN to that public school pot, how is that going to benefit ANY public school child? Every public school is now going to lose funds to some degree, even the good ones, because every private school parent is going to take advantage of that new benefit. You are exactly right. This is why eventually the public schools will all fail, and all close. We send our kids to private school. It's not really any better than our public schools (we live in an area with excellent public schools gradeschool through high school). We chose the private school because it has significantly smaller class sizes, this the kids get more 1:1 attention from the teachers. I find that to be beneficial for my kids. But yes, if we're going to move to vouchers, then I will take my tax money and put it towards my kids private school tuition. I do not believe for a second that those viuchers will cover full tuition per kid per year. So we'll still have to make up the difference. And when I do that, our fabulous local public schools will lose out on that money. And they will become just a little bit less fabulous from that move. Now imagine that scenario happening 10-100x's over. The public schools lose out on TONS of money. Suddenly they become terrible schools. Terrible schools can't offer competitive academics or extracurriculars, nor can they attract the best and brightest teachers. And, without tax money, they can no longer afford to maintain their buildings. So theyre left with a building that will eventually fall apart. Of course, the only students left attending such a terrible school are the ones who come from families who cannot afford to make up the difference in school tuitions, nor afford to move to a better school district, kids with behavior problems, kids with disabilities, and kids with parents who just don't care. Who is going to teach them? Where will they receive their basic education? It is a downward spiral that will lead to public schools completely folding all over this country. It is hard not to look at this as people saying only some children are worthy of basic education in this country. Those who can afford to send their child elsewhere deserve it, and those who cannot do not. Because eventually that is what will happen. Public schools were founded on the assumption that societies generally do better when the majority of their population have a basic level of education. Why in the world would we take away a public school option? How is having a large segment of our society uneducated beneficial to us as a whole?
|
|
|
Post by pierkiss on Feb 8, 2017 19:04:44 GMT
People are making wild assumption about would and wouldn't be included in a voucher program. Some current programs require the student receiving the voucher to be a current public school pupil (negating the concern about private school attendees suddenly receiving vouchers) some limit the number of vouchers students from a particular school can receive (negating the 50% of students disappearing). I don't see vouchers as some magic bullet that will fix public schools, but there is currently NO federal voucher program - when and if Betsy DeVos proposes one - we can debate it's merits or lack thereof. For the 14 states that currently offer voucher programs they vary tremendously and many of the concerns people have with them are actually not part of the programs. I linked to a summary table of what they actually look like above. And as an aside - I am pretty anti-federal mandates for schools in general, so am not a supporter of a federal voucher program. I'll tell you what. I will be enraged if we move to a voucher system in this country and I cannot access it for my children because they already attend private school. And I'll bet I'm not the only one who has a major objection to that. Why shouldn't my family be able to use our tax dollars on our children's education when everyone else can? I love the public school system. Its a beautiful thing when it works well. Reform is needed, but I do not believe this is the way to go about it. It's going to be a dog eat dog world.
|
|
Rainbow
Pearl Clutcher
Where salt is in the air and sand is at my feet...
Posts: 4,103
Jun 26, 2014 5:57:41 GMT
|
Post by Rainbow on Feb 8, 2017 19:11:53 GMT
I could also use a voucher if I decided to do so. Is the voucher money donated? From where? I am sorry, I don't understand your question. There would be no vouchers because you either use the public education provided or you don't. I am sure you could get donations or there are also scholarships if you wanted to send your child to an other type of school (private, boarding, Religous, etc.) or if you wanted to home school them. Who pays for the vouchers? How are they made possible?
|
|
|
Post by Darcy Collins on Feb 8, 2017 19:12:24 GMT
People are making wild assumption about would and wouldn't be included in a voucher program. Some current programs require the student receiving the voucher to be a current public school pupil (negating the concern about private school attendees suddenly receiving vouchers) some limit the number of vouchers students from a particular school can receive (negating the 50% of students disappearing). I don't see vouchers as some magic bullet that will fix public schools, but there is currently NO federal voucher program - when and if Betsy DeVos proposes one - we can debate it's merits or lack thereof. For the 14 states that currently offer voucher programs they vary tremendously and many of the concerns people have with them are actually not part of the programs. I linked to a summary table of what they actually look like above. And as an aside - I am pretty anti-federal mandates for schools in general, so am not a supporter of a federal voucher program. I'll tell you what. I will be enraged if we move to a voucher system in this country and I cannot access it for my children because they already attend private school. And I'll bet I'm not the only one who has a major objection to that. Why shouldn't my family be able to use our tax dollars on our children's education when everyone else can? I love the public school system. Its a beautiful thing when it works well. Reform is needed, but I do not believe this is the way to go about it. It's going to be a dog eat dog world. So if there is a federal voucher program to allow families at the 150% of poverty level to have vouchers to get them out of their horrible public schools you're going to be enraged? We paid private school tuition for more years than I care to count - I have zero issue with exploring options to help inner city - primarily poor schools. Let's face it - when people talk about the need for education reform - they're not talking about the areas with great public schools - so why in the world would you start throwing vouchers at people with great public schools who choose to send their kid to private school?
|
|
Rainbow
Pearl Clutcher
Where salt is in the air and sand is at my feet...
Posts: 4,103
Jun 26, 2014 5:57:41 GMT
|
Post by Rainbow on Feb 8, 2017 19:14:18 GMT
Now you are being ridiculous. Nobody is going to leave them with zero funding. And the option to move is there as well. You make your choices. Well it can leave a school in some dire situations. 1. School has 1000 students and district has a building for all 1000 students 2. 50% of the population leaves due to vouchers so school only has 500 students now 3. School District is still paying for the 1000 student school which it lost 50% of its funding. SCHOOL DISTRICT IS SCREWED! If they have less students then they need less money. Cue the next scenario.
|
|
|
Post by pierkiss on Feb 8, 2017 19:23:25 GMT
I'll tell you what. I will be enraged if we move to a voucher system in this country and I cannot access it for my children because they already attend private school. And I'll bet I'm not the only one who has a major objection to that. Why shouldn't my family be able to use our tax dollars on our children's education when everyone else can? I love the public school system. Its a beautiful thing when it works well. Reform is needed, but I do not believe this is the way to go about it. It's going to be a dog eat dog world. So if there is a federal voucher program to allow families at the 150% of poverty level to have vouchers to get them out of their horrible public schools you're going to be enraged? We paid private school tuition for more years than I care to count - I have zero issue with exploring options to help inner city - primarily poor schools. Let's face it - when people talk about the need for education reform - they're not talking about the areas with great public schools - so why in the world would you start throwing vouchers at people with great public schools who choose to send their kid to private school? Why shouldn't be able to use our tax money to pay for our kids tuition? Why should only those kids who are currently in public school able to use their trax money for private school? It doesn't make any sense to me. If those people are going to yank their funding for public school by using vouchers why shouldn't everyone be given that choice? Am I missing something? Honest question, not trying to be snarky. It seems like those of us who are currently sending their kids to private school would be punished by not having access to that money that they pay into property taxes.
|
|
|
Post by crazy4scraps on Feb 8, 2017 19:26:24 GMT
Well it can leave a school in some dire situations. 1. School has 1000 students and district has a building for all 1000 students 2. 50% of the population leaves due to vouchers so school only has 500 students now 3. School District is still paying for the 1000 student school which it lost 50% of its funding. SCHOOL DISTRICT IS SCREWED! If they have less students then they need less money. Cue the next scenario.This is not necessarily true on all counts. Some of these costs are basically fixed regardless of how many students attend the school. The infrastructure costs stay the same, there will still need to be teachers for each grade level and for various subjects, there will still be administration personnel who need to be paid. Granted some costs that directly relate to the number of students enrolled will be variable but a good number of the expenses to keep the doors open and the lights on for ANY number of kids will stay the same.
|
|
|
Post by Darcy Collins on Feb 8, 2017 19:34:38 GMT
So if there is a federal voucher program to allow families at the 150% of poverty level to have vouchers to get them out of their horrible public schools you're going to be enraged? We paid private school tuition for more years than I care to count - I have zero issue with exploring options to help inner city - primarily poor schools. Let's face it - when people talk about the need for education reform - they're not talking about the areas with great public schools - so why in the world would you start throwing vouchers at people with great public schools who choose to send their kid to private school? Why shouldn't be able to use our tax money to pay for our kids tuition? Why should only those kids who are currently in public school able to use their trax money for private school? It doesn't make any sense to me. If those people are going to yank their funding for public school by using vouchers why shouldn't everyone be given that choice? Am I missing something? Honest question, not trying to be snarky. It seems like those of us who are currently sending their kids to private school would be punished by not having access to that money that they pay into property taxes. I don't see it any differently than Section 8 housing vouchers or food stamps. There are a multitude of programs that direct our tax dollars to benefit poor families.
|
|
|
Post by missmiss on Feb 8, 2017 19:38:22 GMT
Well it can leave a school in some dire situations. 1. School has 1000 students and district has a building for all 1000 students 2. 50% of the population leaves due to vouchers so school only has 500 students now 3. School District is still paying for the 1000 student school which it lost 50% of its funding. SCHOOL DISTRICT IS SCREWED! If they have less students then they need less money. Cue the next scenario.Guess you forgot the part they still have the same bills for the building that holds 1000 students. If they lose funding but still have the same building maintenance and other bills then what? Back to same scenario. Building with 1000 Students (Random number) $50,000 a month Building loses 50% funding due to vouchers Building with 500 student still the same $50,000 a month. They can't build a new school.
|
|
|
Post by pierkiss on Feb 8, 2017 19:52:42 GMT
Why shouldn't be able to use our tax money to pay for our kids tuition? Why should only those kids who are currently in public school able to use their trax money for private school? It doesn't make any sense to me. If those people are going to yank their funding for public school by using vouchers why shouldn't everyone be given that choice? Am I missing something? Honest question, not trying to be snarky. It seems like those of us who are currently sending their kids to private school would be punished by not having access to that money that they pay into property taxes. I don't see it any differently than Section 8 housing vouchers or food stamps. There are a multitude of programs that direct our tax dollars to benefit poor families. If we're talking people making less than x get the voucher, then ok. I can understand and get on board wih that, maybe. But if we're talking vouchers for everyone (which is what I believe DeVos wants to do), then I have an issue with not having access to the vouchers everyone else gets just because my kids already attend a private school. Either way, I don't see a scenario where vouchers benefit all the people.
|
|
|
Post by 2peaornot2pea on Feb 8, 2017 20:02:34 GMT
In my region, the majority of high school students who attend private high school that go on to attend college enroll in public universities. Their acceptance rates are on par with students who attended public school. No better, no worse.
If my child wasn't fitting in at public school, I would certainly look at alternatives. I briefly homeschooled both of my kids then transitioned them back into public school when the time was right. Public education works for a lot of people and I am thankful we have a public education system.
|
|
|
Post by cade387 on Feb 8, 2017 20:08:41 GMT
Public schools were founded on the assumption that societies generally do better when the majority of their population have a basic level of education. Why in the world would we take away a public school option? How is having a large segment of our society uneducated beneficial to us as a whole? Because we just voted in a Sec of Education who makes money on collecting student loan debt. So it is in her best interest for everyone to have to pay for private school, then make money on the loans and collecting on the debt.
|
|
|
Post by christine58 on Feb 8, 2017 21:17:57 GMT
anmore You are outside Buffalo correct??? I am thinking this is Williamsville right?? Nope - Ken-Ton. Former home of Steve Acromovitch, and Dr. "Cinco de Mayo" Jetter - both of whom bounced thru Hamburg. I would love if Martzloff came here. Eh...no you wouldn't~ LOL. He's just as bad from what I've heard. Lots of "cronyism" there.
|
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
Jun 23, 2024 3:40:45 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2017 21:45:33 GMT
Eh...no you wouldn't~ LOL. He's just as bad from what I've heard. Lots of "cronyism" there. Like Ken-Ton. Lots of repeated names on the payroll. Our school board president is married to one of our HS's teacher. Nepotism-r-us. We still have the crazy anti-testing people - now one on the school board - and one of NYSAPE's founding members - Eric Mihelbergel still lives out of district but sends his kids to our district because wifey is a teacher....omg we only come in second in dysfunction after Bflo. And I firmly believe (as does the press) that the teacher's union pushed our most recent Superintendent out. I keep warning Admin I have 8 more years in this district and I represent the kids' union. They need to come first. I like Martzloff. I have met and spoken with him personally. Sorry peas - this is region centric comment and probably boring.
|
|
|
Post by flanz on Feb 8, 2017 21:49:49 GMT
EXACTLY! Being able to home school is a privilege a great many people just don't have! I couldn't agree with you more. My dd is greatly appreciative that she is in the position both logistically, financially and academically to be able to do this for her children.
She is a scholar herself and at 35 is always researching and teaching herself everyday making her very qualified to teach. She is very disciplined and has a "classroom" at home as she has 3 boys at different academic levels which takes great discipline and organization to pull together. They belong to a co-op that gathers a couple of days a week for group classes such as Spanish and Art classes in addition to group field trips. They also organize holiday parties. The kids are getting a very good education in addition to socialization. She is very blessed and doesn't take it for granted.
She understands that DeVos' confirmation jeopardizes all the children that rely on the public school and is not happy about this at all.
![:)](//storage.proboards.com/5645536/images/MNrJDkDuSwqIMVw33MdD.jpg) I really admire parents like your dd and I can only imagine what a terrific education her children are receiving, esp. since they have the group classes for socialization built in. soooo much time in school is spent on moving from one classroom to another, dealing with issues.... I do believe that a focused few hours with a dedicated, capable parent teacher can accomplish more for most kids. Again, it's a luxury for a few, but i know that many home schooled high school seniors do brilliantly on their SATs and in college once they get there. Kudos!
|
|
peasquared
Drama Llama
![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star_green.png)
Posts: 5,513
Jul 6, 2014 23:59:59 GMT
|
Post by peasquared on Feb 8, 2017 21:51:19 GMT
You don't get it. In a rural area there is NO choice. And with all the federal funding being stripped away, what's left? Now you are being ridiculous. Nobody is going to leave them with zero funding. And the option to move is there as well. You make your choices.Sure, we'll move. Close up our business, lay off our workers, who have no other employers in the area, and they can all go on government assistance. That would be a great plan.
|
|
|
Post by crazy4scraps on Feb 8, 2017 22:13:48 GMT
I don't see it any differently than Section 8 housing vouchers or food stamps. There are a multitude of programs that direct our tax dollars to benefit poor families. If we're talking people making less than x get the voucher, then ok. I can understand and get on board wih that, maybe. But if we're talking vouchers for everyone (which is what I believe DeVos wants to do), then I have an issue with not having access to the vouchers everyone else gets just because my kids already attend a private school. Either way, I don't see a scenario where vouchers benefit all the people. I agree with you, but want to add that the reality is if the vouchers are being earmarked for those families making less than x, those are the very people who would be the least likely or able to actually USE the vouchers in the first place to get their kids out of an underperforming school. All of the barriers that are keeping kids from learning in their neighborhood schools will still be there for the low income voucher eligible kids, plus the added barriers of transportation to and from a school that's not in one's neighborhood, the vouchers not necessarily covering the entire cost of tuition/uniforms/fees, etc. and none of those things are anything a change of school alone can fix.
|
|
|
Post by elaine on Feb 8, 2017 22:41:07 GMT
If we're talking people making less than x get the voucher, then ok. I can understand and get on board wih that, maybe. But if we're talking vouchers for everyone (which is what I believe DeVos wants to do), then I have an issue with not having access to the vouchers everyone else gets just because my kids already attend a private school. Either way, I don't see a scenario where vouchers benefit all the people. I agree with you, but want to add that the reality is if the vouchers are being earmarked for those families making less than x, those are the very people who would be the least likely or able to actually USE the vouchers in the first place to get their kids out of an underperforming school. All of the barriers that are keeping kids from learning in their neighborhood schools will still be there for the low income voucher eligible kids, plus the added barriers of transportation to and from a school that's not in one's neighborhood, the vouchers not necessarily covering the entire cost of tuition/uniforms/fees, etc. and none of those things are anything a change of school alone can fix. I agree. And then the public schools that they still have to attend, because the vouchers can't cover all the costs and transportation to private schools, will have their funding cut and fall even farther behind. Great idea. Not.
|
|
|
Post by 950nancy on Feb 9, 2017 0:38:42 GMT
Our district coughed up a HUGE amount of property tax money in recent years specifically for funding our local public schools. It absolutely infuriates me to think that any of that money could possibly be siphoned off and spent on vouchers for religious private schools. ![](http://i1168.photobucket.com/albums/r481/2peasrefugees/Smilies/censored.gif) It will be no surprise if future referendums for our schools and kids will be voted down based on this one factor, and my kid and her classmates will ultimately be the ones who pay the price. Vouchers are fabulous. Parents can choose the schools they feel are best for their children. You have the same choice. I don't see a problem giving parents more choices. Except the schools won't take many kids that should be able to attend so it becomes inclusive. I have seen this many times. Schools refuse to take a child who doesn't fit the standard? How is that fabulous? We had many kids who attended a charter for a short time. The school took the state funding for the year and the child ended up back in the public schools because the charter didn't want a low performing child, a special ed child, or a behavior problem. What happens when a school opens for Muslim children? Should voucher money go towards religious schools that people don't agree with? You sound a little uninformed.
|
|
|
Post by elaine on Feb 9, 2017 2:38:53 GMT
Vouchers are fabulous. Parents can choose the schools they feel are best for their children. You have the same choice. I don't see a problem giving parents more choices. Except the schools won't take many kids that should be able to attend so it becomes inclusive. I have seen this many times. Schools refuse to take a child who doesn't fit the standard? How is that fabulous? We had many kids who attended a charter for a short time. The school took the state funding for the year and the child ended up back in the public schools because the charter didn't want a low performing child, a special ed child, or a behavior problem. What happens when a school opens for Muslim children? Should voucher money go towards religious schools that people don't agree with? You sound a little uninformed. My guess is that with all the competition, private schools will only take kids with special needs - I.e., kids who are more expensive to serve - as a last resort. So, Rainbow/Bunny's daughter would only be taken in desperation by a voucher school.
|
|
scrapaddie
Drama Llama
![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star_green.png)
Posts: 5,090
Jul 8, 2014 20:17:31 GMT
|
Post by scrapaddie on Feb 14, 2017 4:20:25 GMT
What happens when the voucher you are given will not cover the full tuition for any of the other schools in the area and you can't make up the difference and the public schools have either folded or are completely shitty due to lack of funds and bad teachers? What then? I think they're pretty bad right now. I'm glad for more options. I very much doubt public schools will go away completely. Bad teachers? Start the process to get rid of them.Speak for yourself. I worked in an excellent public school.
|
|
|
Post by elaine on Feb 14, 2017 4:26:05 GMT
I think they're pretty bad right now. I'm glad for more options. I very much doubt public schools will go away completely. Bad teachers? Start the process to get rid of them. Speak for yourself. I worked in an excellent public school. Hear, hear. Our public schools are outstanding.
|
|
|
Post by crazy4scraps on Feb 14, 2017 4:37:29 GMT
Speak for yourself. I worked in an excellent public school. Hear, hear. Our public schools are outstanding. The one my kid goes to is excellent too.
|
|
|
Post by freecharlie on Feb 14, 2017 5:03:43 GMT
Hear, hear. Our public schools are outstanding. The one my kid goes to is excellent too. ours aren't perfect, but I don't have many complaints. My district isn't perfect, but it is pretty darn good
|
|
|
Post by Skypea on Feb 14, 2017 9:02:27 GMT
Pence broke the Senate tie. and a big bravo to that! glad she's in and will hopefully be speedy at shaping up the educational system in our country!
as it is, it's disgusting. I would never put one of my kids or gkids in it.
|
|