pudgygroundhog
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,646
Location: The Grand Canyon
Jun 25, 2014 20:18:39 GMT
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Post by pudgygroundhog on Apr 10, 2017 15:25:43 GMT
This is absolutely ridiculous. If you run a business by overbooking, then you need to have a plan in place to address issues when they arise. They should've offered significantly more money in vouchers or other incentives to get volunteers before doing what they did. I find it crazy you could book a ticket and pay for a service then get dragged off a plane (I know, I know - fine print and all - but I still find it ridiculous). Whatever they would've had to pay to get volunteers would've been a bargain versus the bad press.
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Post by crazy4scraps on Apr 10, 2017 15:29:46 GMT
Why would they randomly choose 4 passengers? That's stupid. What if you are traveling with your family and only 1 person was selected? Seems like the people running United and it's policies need some revamping. This is what I was thinking too. If I was traveling with my family and one of us was selected in this manner, I would be absolutely livid. What a mess.
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TheOtherMeg
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,541
Jun 25, 2014 20:58:14 GMT
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Post by TheOtherMeg on Apr 10, 2017 15:31:21 GMT
The airline was at fault, it overbooked. The airline should have offered enough money to induce four people to give up their seats. Had the airline offered $1,000 per seat, four people probably would have given up their seats. If the airlines are going to purposely overbook flights they should be willing to pay whatever it takes for people to voluntarily give up their seats. I agree with this. Members of my family have been United employees for decades, so I usually know info that puts me on the side of the company (as when people recently gave United flack for a dress code issue), but overbooking is a choice airlines make to assure as many seats as possible are filled. When the airline's policy causes seat availability issues, forcibly removing paying passengers is not the right solution. "If the airlines are going to purposely overbook flights they should be willing to pay whatever it takes for people to voluntarily give up their seats." Exactly! Save
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Post by Darcy Collins on Apr 10, 2017 15:34:05 GMT
It was the airlines fault. To choose people to remove at random may seem fair, but it isn't. The stand by passengers, the last ones to book or board, or up the price offered would make a lot more sense. What if one of the people they choose is going to a parent's funeral and will now miss it? What if a job is on the line for someone who needs the work? Thanks for posting this. I will make a point to avoid United. I have never seen an airline handle overbooking in such a ridiculous way. Not only did they lose that one passenger's future business, and now face a possible lawsuit, but people who read about it will hesitate to fly United from now on. They will have to weather the bad press of this - and deservedly so. But I will say, I've flown hundreds of thousands of miles with United and this is definitely not standard procedure. I looked up the flight out of curiosity of how many other flights were flying between Chicago and Louisville that could have accommodated their crew (FYI not many) and see that it's actually operated by Republic Airlines - I hate when you end up on a regional carrier operating for the big airlines.
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Post by annabella on Apr 10, 2017 15:37:26 GMT
I still think the airline is responsible for calling security and instructing someone to leave the plane, that is not how to handle a situation. Sounds like it was the last flight Sunday night, I bet everyone needed to go to work and thus no amount of money could convince them to get off. I would not want to lose one vacation day or even if I took a 5am flight and made it to work, I would be tired and don't think it's worth the money. Either way instead of forcing someone off, they should have just had a steadfast and say the plane is not moving until someone gets up. Either way this should have happened before they boarded. I think mentally it's more traumatic to get on a plane then leave, then to never board. The airline could be more organized and know that this crew takes this Flight every Sunday to make their next flight and reserve seats for the crew.
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TheOtherMeg
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,541
Jun 25, 2014 20:58:14 GMT
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Post by TheOtherMeg on Apr 10, 2017 15:38:11 GMT
I've been sent (not dragged!) off flights after I've been seated, but I was on a pass and that's the way it is if you're on a pass. I'm not even allowed to board until *right* before doors closing, but if a paying passenger shows up late -- >right< before doors closing -- I'm taken off and they're let on. They have a paid ticket and they have the "right of way."
So, I'm not against removing people from their seats under some circumstances, but dragging paying passengers off due to overbooking isn't one of those circumstances.
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YooHoot
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,418
Jun 26, 2014 3:11:50 GMT
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Post by YooHoot on Apr 10, 2017 15:41:05 GMT
Well apparently he got back on the flight?
/video/1
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Post by disneypal on Apr 10, 2017 15:41:17 GMT
I always feel there must be more to the story and perhaps there is. Maybe we do not know the REAL reason he was asked to leave the plane.
However, if it truly was due to overbooking, the man was obviously allowed to board the plane initially, therefore he shouldn't have been removed because they were overbooked. Since he was allowed to board, whoever came after him should have been told they were overbooked and full.
An airline shouldn't allow anyone to board the plane until they know they have a seat for them.
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Post by Darcy Collins on Apr 10, 2017 15:47:35 GMT
I always feel there must be more to the story and perhaps there is. Maybe we do not know the REAL reason he was asked to leave the plane. However, if it truly was due to overbooking, the man was obviously allowed to board the plane initially, therefore he shouldn't have been removed because they were overbooked. Since he was allowed to board, whoever came after him should have been told they were overbooked and full. An airline shouldn't allow anyone to board the plane until they know they have a seat for them. The problem here is it wasn't any old passenger - it was a flight crew that needed to be in Louisville for a subsequent flight. I'm sure the plane load of people in Louisville wouldn't have been too pleased with their inability to fly because United couldn't get their crew to the airport. I haven't seen any report about whether this was a typical situation with the crew or a different flight or airport delay/cancellation impacted the crew. I'll reiterate my initial comment which is they never should have started boarding before they had their volunteers - BUT I do understand why they needed the crew in Louisville and weren't going to simply tell them you're the last ones here too bad so sad.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Jun 27, 2024 14:18:43 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2017 15:49:07 GMT
Love some of the '1984' readings into United's pathetic PR statement: "United later issued a statement, saying: "Flight 3411 from Chicago to Louisville was overbooked. After our team looked for volunteers, one customer refused to leave the aircraft voluntarily and law enforcement was asked to come to the gate. We apologize for the overbook situation. Further details on the removed customer should be directed to authorities.""
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Post by Darcy Collins on Apr 10, 2017 15:52:54 GMT
And FYI for others that wondered - there were two other flights that evening an Envoy flight operating as American Eagle scheduled to depart an hour later and a Trans States Airline operating as United Express departing at 9. I obviously have no way of knowing if there was any room on the flights to accommodate the crew or if the later arrival impacted the subsequent flight - but the fact that the volunteers were asked to fly Monday and offered a hotel voucher suggests the 9 PM flight was booked.
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Post by annabella on Apr 10, 2017 15:56:56 GMT
Those twitter posts say the same thing I said, this is not about overbooking or the understanding that I know the crew needed to be on the flight. The issue is how the AIRLINE handled the issue. They chose to call security yet they are passing that off as well that how the authorities chose to handle it so "you can contact them for questions". No the airline asked them to come remove someone from their plane and the responsibility falls squarely on the airline.
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Post by bc2ca on Apr 10, 2017 15:57:46 GMT
I'm shocked they started boarding before having sufficient volunteers. I've had flights delayed as they won't commence boarding until enough people agree to give up their seat - I'm also shocked no one took them up on the $800 offer. It's always a hell of a lot harder to get people out of a seat then deny them boarding (which they can absolutely do per their contract of carriage for an overbooked flight). FYI They needed the seats for crew members needed for a subsequent flight in Louisville. ![:yeahthat:](//storage.proboards.com/5645536/images/yrGoHMAelQz8f2Qt0sjb.jpg) This has been my experience, too. Boarding doesn't start until volunteers give up their seats and there is enough for those left. Reading between the lines in the account Rhondito linked, the flight was initially overbooked by one and they had a volunteer give up a seat so started boarding. The need for 4 crew seats happened after boarding started and the mess began. The first randomly selected "volunteers" were a couple and I'm sure the computer was selecting based on booked parties and not individual seats @scrappersoccermom and YooHoot . Traveling with my kids, we have been bumped from an overbooked flight (with no compensation) because we were one party that was inconvenienced rather than 3 individual travelers. SaveSaveSaveSave
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teddyw
Drama Llama
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Posts: 6,912
Jun 29, 2014 1:56:04 GMT
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Post by teddyw on Apr 10, 2017 16:08:57 GMT
Last week while waiting for another flight because ours was canceled due to mechanical difficulties, I overheard airline employees who were hoping to get on our flight say the next flight was overbooked by 44 people. The other guy got on his iPad & confirmed it. Can you imagine overbooking by that much? They also told us the plane came in the night before with the issue but no one had looked into it til an hour before our flight. This was delta. They have since canceled Dh's flights twice since then. He flies weekly. Southwest has more direct flights from our airport than delta but he won't switch because no first class or private lounge in the airport. I roll my eyes regularly at him.
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Post by elaine on Apr 10, 2017 16:09:03 GMT
And FYI for others that wondered - there were two other flights that evening an Envoy flight operating as American Eagle scheduled to depart an hour later and a Trans States Airline operating as United Express departing at 9. I obviously have no way of knowing if there was any room on the flights to accommodate the crew or if the later arrival impacted the subsequent flight - but the fact that the volunteers were asked to fly Monday and offered a hotel voucher suggests the 9 PM flight was booked. Or they could have found/asked other United crew members to staff the next flight. Fly them in from another location or use staff already on the ground in Louisville. Those certainly weren't the only 4 crew members on United's payroll that could have staffed that next flight. Yes, it would have been a PITA for United, but it was a crisis of their making and customers shouldn't have been the ones to pay for it.
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Post by myshelly on Apr 10, 2017 16:20:36 GMT
@fred
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Post by cade387 on Apr 10, 2017 16:20:43 GMT
I fly a lot (not United) but I have never seen volunteers called off a plane. It is always handled prior to boarding. I have seen them stop boarding after first class or sky class (I fly Delta) in order to make accommodations, but this is squarely on United for allowing boarding to continue. They should have stopped and sorted it out. I'm sure some on time metric drove the gate agents to press ahead and created an even bigger mess.
If I was fully paid passenger I would be livid over this. I don't know that I would have held out to have to be dragged off the plane, but I would have been loud, that's for sure.
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Post by pondrunner on Apr 10, 2017 16:22:47 GMT
Well apparently he got back on the flight? /video/1 In this video he appears agitated and speaks with an accent, he looks Korean to me perhaps. Is it possible English isn't his first language and he wasn't clear on what they were trying to accomplish when asking him to leave the plane?
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Post by Darcy Collins on Apr 10, 2017 16:38:01 GMT
And FYI for others that wondered - there were two other flights that evening an Envoy flight operating as American Eagle scheduled to depart an hour later and a Trans States Airline operating as United Express departing at 9. I obviously have no way of knowing if there was any room on the flights to accommodate the crew or if the later arrival impacted the subsequent flight - but the fact that the volunteers were asked to fly Monday and offered a hotel voucher suggests the 9 PM flight was booked. Or they could have found/asked other United crew members to staff the next flight. Fly them in from another location or use staff already on the ground in Louisville. Those certainly weren't the only 4 crew members on United's payroll that could have staffed that next flight. Yes, it would have been a PITA for United, but it was a crisis of their making and customers shouldn't have been the ones to pay for it. Ultimately if those crew members were that essentially they should have ponied up for enough volunteers to empty up seats on the plane - or found another crew. I've said from the beginning that they mishandled the situation. I've just been stuck at the airport enough times with a plane but no crew - usually as they ran into some issue and ran out of flight time to know that crew logistics are a giant PITA.
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Post by ilikepink on Apr 10, 2017 16:48:38 GMT
Sounds like a bad situation that went downhill very quickly; unfortunately United will pay dearly for this.
The industry policy of overbooking needs to be reexamined. There is no excuse in the world for treating a paying customer like that. None.
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Post by disneypal on Apr 10, 2017 16:52:30 GMT
The problem here is it wasn't any old passenger - it was a flight crew that needed to be in Louisville for a subsequent flight. I'm sure the plane load of people in Louisville wouldn't have been too pleased with their inability to fly because United couldn't get their crew to the airport. I haven't seen any report about whether this was a typical situation with the crew or a different flight or airport delay/cancellation impacted the crew. I'll reiterate my initial comment which is they never should have started boarding before they had their volunteers - BUT I do understand why they needed the crew in Louisville and weren't going to simply tell them you're the last ones here too bad so sad. Okay - didn't realize they needed the space for crew. Still, though, why was he allowed to board? Surely they knew they needed space for their staff to travel BEFORE they allowed him to board the plane. They shouldn't allow someone to board unless they KNOW they have a seat for them.
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YooHoot
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,418
Jun 26, 2014 3:11:50 GMT
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Post by YooHoot on Apr 10, 2017 16:59:19 GMT
Well apparently he got back on the flight? /video/1 In this video he appears agitated and speaks with an accent, he looks Korean to me perhaps. Is it possible English isn't his first language and he wasn't clear on what they were trying to accomplish when asking him to leave the plane? That's what I was thinking as well.
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Post by Darcy Collins on Apr 10, 2017 16:59:47 GMT
The problem here is it wasn't any old passenger - it was a flight crew that needed to be in Louisville for a subsequent flight. I'm sure the plane load of people in Louisville wouldn't have been too pleased with their inability to fly because United couldn't get their crew to the airport. I haven't seen any report about whether this was a typical situation with the crew or a different flight or airport delay/cancellation impacted the crew. I'll reiterate my initial comment which is they never should have started boarding before they had their volunteers - BUT I do understand why they needed the crew in Louisville and weren't going to simply tell them you're the last ones here too bad so sad. Okay - didn't realize they needed the space for crew. Still, though, why was he allowed to board? Surely they knew they needed space for their staff to travel BEFORE they allowed him to board the plane. They shouldn't allow someone to board unless they KNOW they have a seat for them. I agree they shouldn't have allowed anyone to board before they know they have sufficient seats - and that's how it's been handled every time I've ever been on an over booked flight. Perhaps there was a last minute crew change and it exacerbated the already overbooked situation (I think one of the articles said there were at least one volunteer before boarding began). So they had began boarding before realizing they needed 4 more seats? Maybe Republic Airlines is incompetent? Maybe the gate agents were idiots? Clearly the situation was handled poorly.
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Post by *KAS* on Apr 10, 2017 17:16:27 GMT
Last week while waiting for another flight because ours was canceled due to mechanical difficulties, I overheard airline employees who were hoping to get on our flight say the next flight was overbooked by 44 people. The other guy got on his iPad & confirmed it. Can you imagine overbooking by that much? They also told us the plane came in the night before with the issue but no one had looked into it til an hour before our flight. This was delta. They have since canceled Dh's flights twice since then. He flies weekly. Southwest has more direct flights from our airport than delta but he won't switch because no first class or private lounge in the airport. I roll my eyes regularly at him. Delta's disaster last week (which continued through the weekend) was due to the weather we had in Atlanta last Wednesday, which included tornado warnings at the actual airport, which caused operations to cease for an extended period. There were thousands of flights canceled clear through yesterday. Not because the weather has been bad since then, but because of the domino affect. Planes couldn't get out of Atlanta, so there weren't planes at the other airports the next day. And then the long delays due to bad weather caused the pilots and flight crew to get timed out on service (FAA Regulations) so they didn't have crews to actually fly the planes, causing more cancellations and delays. Overbooked by 44 is probably not the standard - they just had a mess last week and have had a really hard time digging out of it.
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Post by epeanymous on Apr 10, 2017 17:17:06 GMT
Will United pay dearly for this? I mean, there will be a few days of trenchant Twitter posts, but then we'll probably all go back to just buying the cheapest flights we can find and hoping for the best.
I have to fly this week, and I have heard so many horror stories over the past few days (a half-day of Atlanta closures mucked up Delta in particular). I am flying with the whole family, so if we get bumped or the flight gets cancelled, we're probably just stuck; rebooking eight people is not an effort for the faint of heart.
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Post by Merge on Apr 10, 2017 17:22:06 GMT
Will United pay dearly for this? I mean, there will be a few days of trenchant Twitter posts, but then we'll probably all go back to just buying the cheapest flights we can find and hoping for the best. Those of us who live in a United hub city don't have much choice about flying with them. ![:(](//storage.proboards.com/5645536/images/mYSUyHtG9Jrcmm_ydVcK.jpg)
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Post by auntkelly on Apr 10, 2017 17:28:09 GMT
To me, it makes no difference that this passenger was being bumped to make room for a United crew to fly a plane out of Louisville. When I am booking a flight (sometimes months in advance) I shouldn't have to worry that I might get bumped from a flight because United decides at the last minute that they need to fly a crew on a flight I've booked.
I have no control over United's schedule or the logistics of getting flight crews from one airport to another. If United needs a crew in Louisville and they have to bump paying passengers to get the crew there, they should be prepared to pay big bucks to induce passengers to give up their seats.
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MizIndependent
Drama Llama
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Quit your bullpoop.
Posts: 5,836
Jun 25, 2014 19:43:16 GMT
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Post by MizIndependent on Apr 10, 2017 17:44:23 GMT
What United did was utterly barbaric. Their policy may state they can forceably remove "volunteers" in situations like this but to physically assault and batter a passenger? No. Inexcusable. The poor man was pretty severly injured. He managed to break free from the "cops" and get back on the plane. This was the state he was in (warning: graphic): Twitter link 1Twitter link 2I hope he sues United into bankruptcy. Hope he gets millions from them. I can't think of enough awful things to call United for their actions here. I'm disgusted beyond belief.
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Post by gale w on Apr 10, 2017 18:07:49 GMT
What United did was utterly barbaric. Their policy may state they can forceably remove "volunteers" in situations like this but to physically assault and batter a passenger? No. Inexcusable. The poor man was pretty severly injured. He managed to break free from the "cops" and get back on the plane. This was the state he was in (warning: graphic): Twitter link 1Twitter link 2I hope he sues United into bankruptcy. Hope he gets millions from them. I can't think of enough awful things to call United for their actions here. I'm disgusted beyond belief. I'm betting he's already been contacted by several lawyers.
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Post by Yoki on Apr 10, 2017 18:10:51 GMT
We (my family of four) were flying to NYC a few years ago for a wedding. The plane was boarded, full & ready to go when they started asking for volunteers to make room for a crew of 4. I think they started offering $200 in compensation. Nobody got off the plane, so they kept increasing the amount. At $800, the attendant was getting pretty rude about not having volunteers. The second they offered $1000, four people jumped up. To this day I still regret not getting up quickly enough so we could've flown to Hawaii almost free. ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/5645536/images/Q_m8lDOvc_3Le3r1GKdf.jpg) I remember being shocked by the attendant's attitude ... what's that saying? Failure to plan on your part doesn't constitute an emergency on mine?
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