pudgygroundhog
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,648
Location: The Grand Canyon
Jun 25, 2014 20:18:39 GMT
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Post by pudgygroundhog on Apr 10, 2017 18:19:16 GMT
To me, it makes no difference that this passenger was being bumped to make room for a United crew to fly a plane out of Louisville. When I am booking a flight (sometimes months in advance) I shouldn't have to worry that I might get bumped from a flight because United decides at the last minute that they need to fly a crew on a flight I've booked. I have no control over United's schedule or the logistics of getting flight crews from one airport to another. If United needs a crew in Louisville and they have to bump paying passengers to get the crew there, they should be prepared to pay big bucks to induce passengers to give up their seats. I'm sure United made a decision that they would inconvenience four passengers versus a whole plane that would need a crew, however that is the cost of doing business. They should have offered significant vouchers to get volunteers. I'm sure they could've sweetened the pot enough that somebody would've jumped.
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MizIndependent
Drama Llama
Quit your bullpoop.
Posts: 5,836
Jun 25, 2014 19:43:16 GMT
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Post by MizIndependent on Apr 10, 2017 18:33:05 GMT
To me, it makes no difference that this passenger was being bumped to make room for a United crew to fly a plane out of Louisville. When I am booking a flight (sometimes months in advance) I shouldn't have to worry that I might get bumped from a flight because United decides at the last minute that they need to fly a crew on a flight I've booked. I have no control over United's schedule or the logistics of getting flight crews from one airport to another. If United needs a crew in Louisville and they have to bump paying passengers to get the crew there, they should be prepared to pay big bucks to induce passengers to give up their seats. I'm sure United made a decision that they would inconvenience four passengers versus a whole plane that would need a crew, however that is the cost of doing business. They should have offered significant vouchers to get volunteers. I'm sure they could've sweetened the pot enough that somebody would've jumped. It's more than just inconveniencing four passengers though since one of those passengers is a doctor who had scheduled appointments set for the next day. He HAD to travel - United could not possibly have cared less about those people inconvenienced (some of which might be in life/death situations) by that doctor's inability to be where he had to be. Think about it: He is a doctor with important patient meetings the next day. Think of the cost associated with him missing that flight: doctor pay (which would likely be $800 for the day), canceling and rescheduling anywhere from 10-20 patients who likely took off work to see him, and then there are those that traveled to see him. Don't forget the potentially necessary procedures that were time sensitive as well. Factor in that United's abuse of this passenger could have resulted in a concussion (he lost consciousnesses during the "extraction"). This alone means he needs to be cleared before returning work which means additional lost work time and more rescheduling. And if he did incur a concussion, he could have possible brain damage too. Worst case, he could have long-term or even lasting brain damage, as a doctor. They possibly destroyed this mans life to cheap out after their own mistake. Something they could have fixed by chartering a different flight for their employees or by understanding what they were doing when they forced this doctor off the plane. And what's the CEO's response? "I apologize for having to re-accommodate these customers." Yeah. With that level of "re-accommodation", I think I'll just never fly United or it's affiliates again. If enough people stop flying with them they're overbooking problem will be solved! Yeah!
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pudgygroundhog
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,648
Location: The Grand Canyon
Jun 25, 2014 20:18:39 GMT
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Post by pudgygroundhog on Apr 10, 2017 18:50:16 GMT
I'm sure United made a decision that they would inconvenience four passengers versus a whole plane that would need a crew, however that is the cost of doing business. They should have offered significant vouchers to get volunteers. I'm sure they could've sweetened the pot enough that somebody would've jumped. It's more than just inconveniencing four passengers though since one of those passengers is a doctor who had scheduled appointments set for the next day. He HAD to travel - United could not possibly have cared less about those people inconvenienced (some of which might me in life/death situations) by that doctor's inability to be where he had to be. Think about it: He is a doctor with important patient meetings the next day. Think of the cost associated with him missing that flight: doctor pay (which would likely be $800 for the day), canceling and rescheduling anywhere from 10-20 patients who likely took off work to see him, and then there are those that traveled to see him. Don't forget the potentially necessary procedures that were time sensitive as well. Factor in that United's abuse of this passenger could have resulted in a concussion (he lost consciousnesses during the "extraction"). This alone means he needs to be cleared before returning work which means additional lost work time and more rescheduling. And if he did incur a concussion, he could have possible brain damage too. Worst case, he could have long-term or even lasting brain damage, as a doctor. They possibly destroyed this mans life to cheap out after their own mistake. Something they could have fixed by chartering a different flight for their employees or by understanding what they were doing when they forced this doctor off the plane. And what's the CEO's response? "I apologize for having to re-accommodate these customers." Yeah. With that level of "re-accommodation", I think I'll just never fly United or it's affiliates again. I get it and I totally disagree with what they did. I meant from a business perspective they thought bumping four people was the lesser of delaying a full plane and possibly having people miss connections, etc. But they didn't do it right - they should've offered more money to get volunteers. I'm sure they could've offered enough money that four people would've decided to take it (if it was our family traveling home it might have been an inconvenience to be delayed by a day, but if we got $3000 worth of vouchers? Count us in). Whatever they would have had to offer would've been cheaper and a better trade off than the end result.
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Post by Merge on Apr 10, 2017 18:52:14 GMT
United's new seating plan:
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Post by pondrunner on Apr 10, 2017 18:54:00 GMT
United's new seating plan: Everybody knows the first rule about fight club
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Post by MichyM on Apr 10, 2017 18:59:25 GMT
I usually stay away from making judgements after a story first comes out, to see what other details also come to light. With this one, I cannot figure out anything that would mitigate what was done to this man.....and the other passengers on this flight.
There is no excuse to haul ANYONE, doctor or not, off a plane like this under these circumstances. And the fact that he is a doctor, rather than say....a retail sales clerk, should have no bearing on how this is now handled. At some point, had United continued upping the ante, they eventually would have found that sweet spot and had ample volunteers. It boggles my mind that anyone would think that forcibly removing someone off a plane, rather than continuing to work on volunteers is a good idea. Dumb@$$e$.
I live in Seattle and cannot tell you the last time I flew United...they simply don't fly the routes I need at the best price. Alaska, Delta, and their partners are my preferred airlines. That said, you can bet your last dollar that I'll do everything in my power to avoid United in the future.
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Post by Really Red on Apr 10, 2017 18:59:27 GMT
Okay - we don't know for sure he's a doctor, right? It's just what he's saying.
And I would be 100% on his side if he had acted slightly like an adult.
These things happen. It's stupid and United handled it so poorly, but FFS, he's an adult.
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Post by pondrunner on Apr 10, 2017 19:03:03 GMT
I always feel there must be more to the story and perhaps there is. Maybe we do not know the REAL reason he was asked to leave the plane. However, if it truly was due to overbooking, the man was obviously allowed to board the plane initially, therefore he shouldn't have been removed because they were overbooked. Since he was allowed to board, whoever came after him should have been told they were overbooked and full. An airline shouldn't allow anyone to board the plane until they know they have a seat for them. The problem here is it wasn't any old passenger - it was a flight crew that needed to be in Louisville for a subsequent flight. I'm sure the plane load of people in Louisville wouldn't have been too pleased with their inability to fly because United couldn't get their crew to the airport. I haven't seen any report about whether this was a typical situation with the crew or a different flight or airport delay/cancellation impacted the crew. I'll reiterate my initial comment which is they never should have started boarding before they had their volunteers - BUT I do understand why they needed the crew in Louisville and weren't going to simply tell them you're the last ones here too bad so sad. if I was a passenger on that subsequent flight, I would not exactly have seen this video and been all, wow look how hard they worked to make sure my flight didn't get inconvenienced. That's not the kind of attention to customer service I appreciate.
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Post by annabella on Apr 10, 2017 19:04:22 GMT
Ugh. I HATE United. We avoid them whenever we can. I miss Continental. www.cnbc.com/2017/04/10/united-is-being-immature-former-continental-ceo-gordon-bethune-says.htmlUnited passenger was 'immature,' former Continental CEO Gordon Bethune says That's the headline but then they quote him as saying "Former Continental CEO Gordon Bethune said a formal apology is necessary, fiasco was "immature."" Which is it? "Denied boarding is usually handled with a whole lot more maturity," former United Airlines parent United Continental Holdings' Chief Executive Gordon Bethune told CNBC in an interview Monday, referring to the forced removal of the male passenger. "[United] tries to do a professional job, but not everybody on the plane is professional," thereby creating a "scene" on Sunday evening that carried over onto social media, Bethune added. "This immature reaction disturbs us all."
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Post by nicoleq on Apr 10, 2017 19:06:01 GMT
This is so awful to watch... and usually I'm on the side of a company. I'm a gate agent with an airlines and I can not EVER imagine this happening. EVER. Why you would ever begin boarding a plane with overbooking issues is beyond me.
I hate United for various reasons and their overbooking policy is the worst.
I hope this doctor is treated very well by United.
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Post by annabella on Apr 10, 2017 19:10:45 GMT
There is no excuse to haul ANYONE, doctor or not, off a plane like this under these circumstances. And the fact that he is a doctor, rather than say....a retail sales clerk, should have no bearing on how this is now handled. At some point, had United continued upping the ante, they eventually would have found that sweet spot and had ample volunteers. It boggles my mind that anyone would think that forcibly removing someone off a plane, rather than continuing to work on volunteers is a good idea. Dumb@$$e$. You're right we don't know he's a doctor. And the fact that he ran back on the plane was very strange, not something I'd expect from a mature adult, would there even be a seat free at that point? However I don't like people calling him names saying he was immature for not getting up. I assure upi I'd be mouthing off if I was ever asked to get off a flight. But once they told me I would be forcibly removed, I would only then get up because I don't need my tummy on everyone's social media feed the next day. I would be sure to get the name of the officer if I wasn't already recording this by now. My friend was unlawfully detained by police outside a bar once and I immediately took out my phone to record, you have to do that now a days. My thing is why pick a fight with someone who doesn't want to get up? Just accept that they are stubborn (and perhaps with good reason) and pick another name at random to remove. To me, to pick a fight with that person means the police officer and airline were being stubborn as well and adamant that it had to be their way or the highway. They are asking people to be incredibly inconvenienced, so the airline could show some flexibility too in just picking another name. Another thought would be to pick an entire row to remove. I think if you saw your seatmate politely getting up, you might be more prone to do so without incident too.
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Post by pondrunner on Apr 10, 2017 19:12:35 GMT
There is no excuse to haul ANYONE, doctor or not, off a plane like this under these circumstances. And the fact that he is a doctor, rather than say....a retail sales clerk, should have no bearing on how this is now handled. At some point, had United continued upping the ante, they eventually would have found that sweet spot and had ample volunteers. It boggles my mind that anyone would think that forcibly removing someone off a plane, rather than continuing to work on volunteers is a good idea. Dumb@$$e$. You're right we don't know he's a doctor. And the fact that he ran back on the plane was very strange, not something I'd expect from a mature adult, would there even be a seat free at that point? However I don't like people calling him names saying he was immature for not getting up. I assure upi I'd be mouthing off if I was ever asked to get off a flight. But once they told me I would be forcibly removed, I would only then get up because I don't need my tummy on everyone's social media feed the next day. I would be sure to get the name of the officer if I wasn't already recording this by now. My friend was unlawfully detained by police outside a bar once and I immediately took out my phone to record, you have to do that now a days. My thing is why pick a fight with someone who doesn't want to get up? Just accept that they are stubborn (and perhaps with good reason) and pick another name at random to remove. To me, to pick a fight with that person means the police officer and airline were being stubborn as well and adamant that it had to be their way or the highway. They are asking people to be incredibly inconvenienced, so the airline could show some flexibility too in just picking another name. Another thought would be to pick an entire row to remove. I think if you saw your seatmate politely getting up, you might be more prone to do so without incident too. Mature adults occasionally do odd or illogical things when they've been knocked unconscious and experienced trauma. Look at him in that video, he's confused and his pants are half off. Of course he isn't fully rational.
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moodyblue
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,247
Location: Western Illinois
Site Supporter
Jun 26, 2014 21:07:23 GMT
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Post by moodyblue on Apr 10, 2017 19:22:42 GMT
He may have gone back on the plane to retrieve his belongings???
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Post by ktdoesntscrap on Apr 10, 2017 19:37:30 GMT
I have a hard time believing that this is all there is to the story. Perhaps this guy had a standby ticket and barged his way onto the plane? I have a hard time believing it to. As a stand-by passenger who was already buckled in to my seat, my name has been called and I've been told to deplane. Sucked, but I got off. Eta... I also know not to wear leggings. But he wasn't standby. He was just randomly chosen... Why is the airlines need to move employees around more important than a customer who bought a ticket?
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Post by gale w on Apr 10, 2017 19:41:27 GMT
Ugh. I HATE United. We avoid them whenever we can. I miss Continental. www.cnbc.com/2017/04/10/united-is-being-immature-former-continental-ceo-gordon-bethune-says.htmlUnited passenger was 'immature,' former Continental CEO Gordon Bethune says That's the headline but then they quote him as saying "Former Continental CEO Gordon Bethune said a formal apology is necessary, fiasco was "immature."" Which is it? "Denied boarding is usually handled with a whole lot more maturity," former United Airlines parent United Continental Holdings' Chief Executive Gordon Bethune told CNBC in an interview Monday, referring to the forced removal of the male passenger. "[United] tries to do a professional job, but not everybody on the plane is professional," thereby creating a "scene" on Sunday evening that carried over onto social media, Bethune added. "This immature reaction disturbs us all." Except that he wasn't denied boarding. If he had been, it probably would have had a very different outcome.
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Post by ktdoesntscrap on Apr 10, 2017 19:53:26 GMT
Okay - we don't know for sure he's a doctor, right? It's just what he's saying. And I would be 100% on his side if he had acted slightly like an adult. These things happen. It's stupid and United handled it so poorly, but FFS, he's an adult. I think that UNITED should have acted like adults and accepted they screwed up and they shouldn't put their business needs ahead of a paying customer.
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scrappinmama
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,015
Jun 26, 2014 12:54:09 GMT
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Post by scrappinmama on Apr 10, 2017 19:58:31 GMT
This was handled poorly. It seemed beyond extreme to rip him from his seat like that. I get sick thinking about this. We travel with our two sons with autism and I don't even know how they would handle that situation. We're flying to Europe in 6 weeks. If they pull us from our flight to Chicago because they overbooked, we will miss our connecting flight and will be a day late getting to our destination. I would be livid and my kids would be a mess.
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Post by melrose on Apr 10, 2017 20:01:12 GMT
That's crazy!!! There has to be more to this story. I agree.....
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Post by Darcy Collins on Apr 10, 2017 20:05:07 GMT
Okay - we don't know for sure he's a doctor, right? It's just what he's saying. And I would be 100% on his side if he had acted slightly like an adult. These things happen. It's stupid and United handled it so poorly, but FFS, he's an adult. I think that UNITED should have acted like adults and accepted they screwed up and they shouldn't put their business needs ahead of a paying customer. That's not really accurate though - their "business needs" were just more paying customers. You bump 4 passengers on one flight so that you don't have to cancel a flight for 200 customers - which means rebooking them - which means more bumped pissed off customers. Should they have upped the compensation up to a point where they had volunteers for the flight from Chicago instead of dragging this man off the plane - of course. But the reality of sometimes having to inconvenience customers so you don't inconvenience MORE customers is a reality of many businesses. The question is can you inconvenience someone without creating a shit show that goes viral and makes you look ridiculous at best as you've dragged your paying customer off an airplane.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Sept 28, 2024 8:23:13 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2017 20:08:29 GMT
Opinion piece in the LAT. Now that several hours have passed (when I posted this a.m. there were only a few stories up about it), people the length and breadth of the industry and its observers have decried the actions of United and the law enforcement they summoned. It would have been so much easier to just keep up'ing the bids for seats. At different prices, different people will bite. But to come on board, randomly choose "volunteers" and then pass the buck to law enforcement for their own stinginess, United deserves to be skewered and sued. "The solution to the conflict between an airline’s desire to fill every seat and passengers’ need to get where they’re going on time is blindingly obvious: let the market work. The Louisville doctor’s need to get home was clearly worth more to him than $800. But so was United’s need to get a crew from Chicago to Louisville. The airline decided to cheap out by not offering passengers payment that would be enough to free up more seats. Instead of paying the true value of moving its crew, it decided to impose that cost on one unfortunate passenger." www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-hiltzik-united-video-20170410-story.htmlYes, United was acting within the (shitty) US terms of carriage. But they need to reevaluate their decision making and policies - one bloody passenger dragged off a flight is worth MILLIONS in lost good will, suits by the passengers, etc. And their CEOs baffling statement on the affair is only making things worse. Who the hell does their PR?!?!?
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Post by annabella on Apr 10, 2017 20:09:56 GMT
Loved this description:
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Post by annabella on Apr 10, 2017 20:31:14 GMT
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MizIndependent
Drama Llama
Quit your bullpoop.
Posts: 5,836
Jun 25, 2014 19:43:16 GMT
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Post by MizIndependent on Apr 10, 2017 20:31:46 GMT
There is no excuse to haul ANYONE, doctor or not, off a plane like this under these circumstances. And the fact that he is a doctor, rather than say....a retail sales clerk, should have no bearing on how this is now handled. At some point, had United continued upping the ante, they eventually would have found that sweet spot and had ample volunteers. It boggles my mind that anyone would think that forcibly removing someone off a plane, rather than continuing to work on volunteers is a good idea. Dumb@$$e$. Extremely valid point. Doctor or not, NO ONE should have to endure abuse of this nature.
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Post by papersilly on Apr 10, 2017 20:34:11 GMT
airline's fault. i smell lawsuit.
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scrappinghappy
Pearl Clutcher
“I’m late, I’m late for a very important date. No time to say “Hello.” Goodbye. I’m late...."
Posts: 4,307
Jun 26, 2014 19:30:06 GMT
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Post by scrappinghappy on Apr 10, 2017 20:42:44 GMT
related to the original response by united
"refused to volunteer"
They are kidding, right?
Since when does anyone HAVE to volunteer?
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Post by katlaw on Apr 10, 2017 20:54:08 GMT
United should have planned better. They knew they needed crew moved. They knew the plane was sold out. They move crew every day. They should have a better back up plan then forcing passengers to "volunteer" How far ahead did they know they would need to make room on the plane? They must make their schedules far ahead for staffing. Surely they could have offered to pay for seats plus compensation for 4 passengers to take a later flight. Or called in crew that lived where they needed them and paid them overtime to work the flight they needed crew for. I know at my work we have back up plans and back up plans to our back up plans to ensure services that are vital are covered. It is appalling to me that they expected passengers to volunteer by force because they had no other choice. Or because they were not willing to find another choice.
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Post by flanz on Apr 10, 2017 21:00:19 GMT
It was the airlines fault. To choose people to remove at random may seem fair, but it isn't. The stand by passengers, the last ones to book or board, or up the price offered would make a lot more sense. What if one of the people they choose is going to a parent's funeral and will now miss it? What if a job is on the line for someone who needs the work? Thanks for posting this. I will make a point to avoid United. I have never seen an airline handle overbooking in such a ridiculous way. Not only did they lose that one passenger's future business, and now face a possible lawsuit, but people who read about it will hesitate to fly United from now on. They will have to weather the bad press of this - and deservedly so. But I will say, I've flown hundreds of thousands of miles with United and this is definitely not standard procedure. I looked up the flight out of curiosity of how many other flights were flying between Chicago and Louisville that could have accommodated their crew (FYI not many) and see that it's actually operated by Republic Airlines - I hate when you end up on a regional carrier operating for the big airlines. Hey Darcy. My DH has also flown hundreds of thousands of miles with them and I have flown plenty. I was going to book a trip today but I can not bring myself to give them one more dime. Especially not today. ONCE is too many times for this to happen! Absolutely disgusting and so wrong. I just watched the short video clips of the bloodied passenger once he scrambled back onto the plane. His thick accent, pleading "kill me now" and then "i want to go home" is gut wrenching. I hope UNITED suffers bigly over this!
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Post by stampnscrap1128 on Apr 10, 2017 21:03:08 GMT
Being forced to do something is NOT being a volunteer. United Airlines is evidently going to have to learn that lesson the hard way. Freakin' idiots.
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Post by flanz on Apr 10, 2017 21:08:09 GMT
Will United pay dearly for this? I mean, there will be a few days of trenchant Twitter posts, but then we'll probably all go back to just buying the cheapest flights we can find and hoping for the best. Those of us who live in a United hub city don't have much choice about flying with them. totally stinks. i'm the boat of having to travel by car or bus to a major airport if i don't want to fly united... but I might do it! I don't want to support them for one second longer.
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Post by flanz on Apr 10, 2017 21:09:47 GMT
What United did was utterly barbaric. Their policy may state they can forceably remove "volunteers" in situations like this but to physically assault and batter a passenger? No. Inexcusable. The poor man was pretty severly injured. He managed to break free from the "cops" and get back on the plane. This was the state he was in (warning: graphic): Twitter link 1Twitter link 2I hope he sues United into bankruptcy. Hope he gets millions from them. I can't think of enough awful things to call United for their actions here. I'm disgusted beyond belief. I completely agree with you. Those video clips are heartbreaking. I'll bet he had no clue why he was being yanked out of his seat and dragged down the aisle. Talk about traumatizing. United deserves to pay through the nose for this.
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