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Post by QueSeraSera on Apr 12, 2017 5:04:39 GMT
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Post by QueSeraSera on Apr 12, 2017 5:07:41 GMT
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Deleted
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Sept 28, 2024 10:25:16 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2017 11:33:59 GMT
I find this situation so infuriating! It's more than just a guy being dragged off of a plane, which was horrific. It's the utter lack of respect and basic decency in the interest of corporate greed. It symbolizes to me everything that is wrong with America right now. Who in their right mind would escalate a situation to that level, just to make their boss happy? Does anyone working for UA in that terminal have any common sense at all? Was an $800 voucher the max that they were allowed to offer, per some kind of cost-benefit analysis?The irony is that they have one of the world's largest FLEETS of airplanes. Dial it back a notch, look at your available inventory, and send one of the CEO's corporate jets if you need to. I'll bet now they are wishing someone would have thought of that. There are a lot of other ways this could have been resolved, but they're too busy saving 10 cents everywhere they can. With their stock plunge today, they're finding out that you can go too far with the bottom line. That! And to the point that the crew was needed immediatly, reports are that they were needed in Louisville THE NEXT DAY - so there were a myriad of options they could have used other than being the cause behind a passenger's head being slammed against an arm rest by the local police because he wouldn't give up his seat.
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Post by Belia on Apr 12, 2017 12:13:39 GMT
The thing is, is that we do not know what happened prior to the video. We do not. It does not appear to me that United handled this well, but I can tell you if - and this is a giant if - this man rushed on to a plane and is making crazy comments, then if I were a passenger, I'd be happy he were off the plane. The man does not appear to be a mentally healthy person. That clearly does not mean he has the right to be treated with anything but respect, but I am just flabbergasted that everyone is making judgments based on one small piece of information. We have absolutely NO IDEA what went on before. I have seen people removed from planes on several occasions and even when one was completely drunk, they didn't act like that man did. Adults just don't resolve their problems by flopping down and refusing to move!! One person in this thread suggested that this was like the Holocaust. WTF? This is an airlines misbehaving and a person misbehaving and both should have consequences. And FWIW, I didn't realize it was a 5-hour drive. Why the heck didn't United just offer the $800 and either a hotel or a rental car? I could not disagree with the thrust of your post more. We live in the United States of America. And a man who, by all accounts, was doing nothing other than sitting quietly in a seat that he paid for, was just dragged forcibly off of an airplane by three government officials, leaving him bloody. That ANYONE could even begin to try and justify that to any degree in any way, shape, or form just blows my mind.
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Post by Belia on Apr 12, 2017 12:20:16 GMT
Finally, Munoz put out something approaching an apology (vs. that "re-accommodate" crap they spit out yesterday). Now let's see some actions! BULL. FUCKING. SHIT. His first response was his true response. I swear, there are days when I REALLY want to bring back "an eye for an eye" justice. Let's schedule good ol' Oscar for a very important meeting out of town, load him and his family onto an airplane, then drag HIM off the plane by his ass and his hair, banging his face into some solid pieces of metal on the way out. Gee, sorry Oscar, you had to be re-accommodated. Enjoy unemployment, Oscar, you tool.
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Deleted
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Sept 28, 2024 10:25:16 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2017 12:27:44 GMT
A proposal. Perhaps the time is right for another airline (not buying it even if United did this) to differentiate themselves from the pack by saying they will not bump paid customers from a flight. You can feel safe flying with them. Both physically and knowing that you will be where you want to be at as close to the ticketed time as possible. Obviously severe weather is going to throw things off, and we don't want a plane with mechanical issues in the air. But none of this other crap. They could make the tickets non-refundable. Offer a guaranteed seat. Let the others continue to sell tickets for a chance at a flight. If you want to know that you will have a guaranteed seat, you could choose this other airline and pay whatever that ticket needs to be adjusted to. I buy non-refundable tickets to things all the time, and so do the rest of the peas. What makes this any different? Theater tickets you have to often purchase way in advance and they are not refundable, etc. They could always offer some ability to exchange your ticket with something like a week minimum notice, for some sort of exchange fee, like $100 or something. I don't think the ticket would necessarily have to be that much higher cost. We really don't believe that they are operating at a loss on what they sell the tickets for now, right? Clearly not when you look at their profit levels. If they are just over-booking to protect themselves from losing money flying with empty seats, stop that crap and offer nonrefundable, guaranteed seat tickets. I know that I would likely switch to any airline doing this, up to a reasonable cost increase of say 30%. ETA: Don't need first class seats or service. Just want a safe, guaranteed coach seat, that I can afford to fly with my family in. Thoughts? Sounds good to me - and I'm sure to a lot of us "coach" flyers. Or the airlines could do what hotels starting doing ages ago - charge for the room if you don't cancel w/in 24 hours. Now they know they either have a paid up room (even if no one stays in it) or they have 24 hours notice to re-rent the room.
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Deleted
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Sept 28, 2024 10:25:16 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2017 12:31:35 GMT
PS - Oscar was on GMA this a.m. "Munoz: "We are not going to put a law enforcement official to take them off the aircraft." ABC News: "A law enforcement official will never come on one of your planes again?" Munoz: "To remove a booked, paid, seating passenger? We can't do that." "A group protested Tuesday night at O'Hare. More protests are planned Wednesday at United, which comes as the company's stock took a big dive." Hope the board forces Munoz out - his tone deafness on the event in the first 48 hours shows he has bad instincts for customer service - which is a deal breaker for an airline. abc7chicago.com/news/united-ceo-speaks-on-passenger-dragged-off-overbooked-flight/1863988/
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Post by Belia on Apr 12, 2017 12:31:44 GMT
OK, last post, but do you know what really chaps my ass? THERE WAS AN EASY SOLUTION. Super easy. Just keep raising the amount of compensation offered until somebody bit. I'm no economist, but I do know that everybody on that airplane had a price they would accept for giving up their seat. EVERYBODY. All the crew had to do was find that price. It would have been a quick solution and everybody would have ended up happy.
So glad I hardly ever fly anywhere.
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Post by Belia on Apr 12, 2017 12:34:21 GMT
PS - Oscar was on GMA this a.m. "Munoz: "We are not going to put a law enforcement official to take them off the aircraft." ABC News: "A law enforcement official will never come on one of your planes again?" Munoz: "To remove a booked, paid, seating passenger? We can't do that." Did he address the leaked email that completely supported the actions of his staff and blamed the incident on the passenger? I want someone to ask him that question. His public "apology" vs. private "great job, team!"
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Post by Darcy Collins on Apr 12, 2017 13:59:10 GMT
A proposal. Perhaps the time is right for another airline (not buying it even if United did this) to differentiate themselves from the pack by saying they will not bump paid customers from a flight. You can feel safe flying with them. Both physically and knowing that you will be where you want to be at as close to the ticketed time as possible. Obviously severe weather is going to throw things off, and we don't want a plane with mechanical issues in the air. But none of this other crap. They could make the tickets non-refundable. Offer a guaranteed seat. Let the others continue to sell tickets for a chance at a flight. If you want to know that you will have a guaranteed seat, you could choose this other airline and pay whatever that ticket needs to be adjusted to. I buy non-refundable tickets to things all the time, and so do the rest of the peas. What makes this any different? Theater tickets you have to often purchase way in advance and they are not refundable, etc. They could always offer some ability to exchange your ticket with something like a week minimum notice, for some sort of exchange fee, like $100 or something. I don't think the ticket would necessarily have to be that much higher cost. We really don't believe that they are operating at a loss on what they sell the tickets for now, right? Clearly not when you look at their profit levels. If they are just over-booking to protect themselves from losing money flying with empty seats, stop that crap and offer nonrefundable, guaranteed seat tickets. I know that I would likely switch to any airline doing this, up to a reasonable cost increase of say 30%. ETA: Don't need first class seats or service. Just want a safe, guaranteed coach seat, that I can afford to fly with my family in. Thoughts? Fly Jet Blue - they don't overbook their flights: www.jetblue.com/legal/customer-service-plan/The only time they bump passengers is due to flight delays, mechanical issues etc . They do have first class though - "mint" actually with some sweet seats that fully recline on some routes.
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Post by Really Red on Apr 12, 2017 14:16:54 GMT
The thing is, is that we do not know what happened prior to the video. We do not. It does not appear to me that United handled this well, but I can tell you if - and this is a giant if - this man rushed on to a plane and is making crazy comments, then if I were a passenger, I'd be happy he were off the plane. The man does not appear to be a mentally healthy person. That clearly does not mean he has the right to be treated with anything but respect, but I am just flabbergasted that everyone is making judgments based on one small piece of information. We have absolutely NO IDEA what went on before. I have seen people removed from planes on several occasions and even when one was completely drunk, they didn't act like that man did. Adults just don't resolve their problems by flopping down and refusing to move!! One person in this thread suggested that this was like the Holocaust. WTF? This is an airlines misbehaving and a person misbehaving and both should have consequences. And FWIW, I didn't realize it was a 5-hour drive. Why the heck didn't United just offer the $800 and either a hotel or a rental car? I could not disagree with the thrust of your post more. We live in the United States of America. And a man who, by all accounts, was doing nothing other than sitting quietly in a seat that he paid for, was just dragged forcibly off of an airplane by three government officials, leaving him bloody. That ANYONE could even begin to try and justify that to any degree in any way, shape, or form just blows my mind. Oh FFS, Seriously? Read my posts. I think United was completely 100% wrong. I am horrified by what they did and I think they are complete morons for how they handled it during and post. But this guy made mistakes, too and it is disingenuous to believe otherwise. His ticket said he could be bumped. It SUCKS and it's annoying and unbelievable how United did everything from beginning to end, but I can assure you that I would not be sitting in a seat and refusing to move.
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gloryjoy
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,332
Jun 26, 2014 12:35:32 GMT
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Post by gloryjoy on Apr 12, 2017 14:19:17 GMT
OK, last post, but do you know what really chaps my ass? THERE WAS AN EASY SOLUTION. Super easy. Just keep raising the amount of compensation offered until somebody bit. I'm no economist, but I do know that everybody on that airplane had a price they would accept for giving up their seat. EVERYBODY. All the crew had to do was find that price. It would have been a quick solution and everybody would have ended up happy. So glad I hardly ever fly anywhere. Yes COLD HARD CASH, not a voucher, cash! I'm sorry United, and any other airline, a voucher is not cash.
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Post by Darcy Collins on Apr 12, 2017 14:29:05 GMT
I imagine United will roll out Delta's policy. I very rarely fly Delta - I don't think I've flown them in at least 7-8 yeas. I was surprised yesterday when I posted the stats on voluntary versus involuntary bumping. Delta's numbers are crazy - they have the absolute highest number of bumped passengers, by quite a bit, but they manage to obtain volunteers for the vast majority of them: 10/10,000 passengers bumped, but 0.1/10,000 involuntarily - taking them from #1 bumping, to #9 for unvoluntary bumping. I didn't realize that they have passengers submit a bid for the compensation they'll accept when they check into an oversold flight. So basically by the time boarding begins, the gate agents have a list of who is willing to be bumped and how much. It's a much better system than United's begging for volunteers at boarding. It's explained more here: www.pbs.org/newshour/making-sense/how-delta-masters-the-game-of-overbooking-flights/
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tduby1
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,979
Jun 27, 2014 18:32:45 GMT
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Post by tduby1 on Apr 12, 2017 14:56:09 GMT
I imagine United will roll out Delta's policy. I very rarely fly Delta - I don't think I've flown them in at least 7-8 yeas. I was surprised yesterday when I posted the stats on voluntary versus involuntary bumping. Delta's numbers are crazy - they have the absolute highest number of bumped passengers, by quite a bit, but they manage to obtain volunteers for the vast majority of them: 10/10,000 passengers bumped, but 0.1/10,000 involuntarily - taking them from #1 bumping, to #9 for unvoluntary bumping. I didn't realize that they have passengers submit a bid for the compensation they'll accept when they check into an oversold flight. So basically by the time boarding begins, the gate agents have a list of who is willing to be bumped and how much. It's a much better system than United's begging for volunteers at boarding. It's explained more here: www.pbs.org/newshour/making-sense/how-delta-masters-the-game-of-overbooking-flights/That is genius!
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Sept 28, 2024 10:25:16 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2017 15:00:51 GMT
This is similar to a reverse (Dutch or Anglo) auction where the highest bid that they have to take for the last unit sets the price for that last bid and all lower bids. It is how electric generators are dispatched in markets all over the world, it s a common economic system: "In 2003, researchers claimed an average of five percent of total corporate spending was sourced using reverse auctions.[3] They have been found to be more appropriate and suitable in industries and sectors like advertising, auto components, bulk chemicals, consumer durables, computers and peripherals, contract manufacturing, courier services, FMCG, healthcare, hospitality, insurance, leasing, logistics, maritime shipping, MRO, retail, software licensing, textiles, tourism, transport and warehousing.[1]"
It is beyond asinine that they haven't gone to a similar system in these situations.
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Post by frenchie on Apr 12, 2017 16:09:32 GMT
I agree with Belia. All it probably would've taken is for them to keep raising the voucher amount. Eventually, they would have made it worthwhile for 4 people.
Just for what it's worth, the person making that decision (voucher amount) is not the flight crew or even the gate agent. It's a supervisor or lead agent who has the authority to do so. Forcibly removing a passenger is not worth ANY amount of money. I can't figure out that whole thought process.
In all of my years flying, I can't ever remember a situation where any passengers who took vouchers for oversold flights were ever forced to do so.
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MizIndependent
Drama Llama
Quit your bullpoop.
Posts: 5,836
Jun 25, 2014 19:43:16 GMT
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Post by MizIndependent on Apr 12, 2017 16:13:15 GMT
I could not disagree with the thrust of your post more. We live in the United States of America. And a man who, by all accounts, was doing nothing other than sitting quietly in a seat that he paid for, was just dragged forcibly off of an airplane by three government officials, leaving him bloody. That ANYONE could even begin to try and justify that to any degree in any way, shape, or form just blows my mind. Oh FFS, Seriously? Read my posts. I think United was completely 100% wrong. I am horrified by what they did and I think they are complete morons for how they handled it during and post. But this guy made mistakes, too and it is disingenuous to believe otherwise. His ticket said he could be bumped. It SUCKS and it's annoying and unbelievable how United did everything from beginning to end, but I can assure you that I would not be sitting in a seat and refusing to move. I agree with you, Red. Dao (the passenger) did make mistakes. However, as another poster here mentioned, had he not, the severity of all this would not have come to light the way it has. In fact, another passenger experience was reported just yesterday: Another Passenger Complains Of Mistreatment By United Airlines (CBSLocal)United's unbending policies are ludicrous. Congress is calling the compensation limits into question right now, especially since United did not offer the full amount according to the federal cap ($1,350). It is believed if the airline employees had offered proper compensation to "re-accommodate" passengers then they would have actual volunteers and have no need to physically abuse their passengers (not that there is a need now, obviously - they appear to do it just for the hell of it). After all, everyone has their price.
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Post by hennybutton on Apr 12, 2017 16:25:14 GMT
A proposal. Perhaps the time is right for another airline (not buying it even if United did this) to differentiate themselves from the pack by saying they will not bump paid customers from a flight. You can feel safe flying with them. Both physically and knowing that you will be where you want to be at as close to the ticketed time as possible. Obviously severe weather is going to throw things off, and we don't want a plane with mechanical issues in the air. But none of this other crap. They could make the tickets non-refundable. Offer a guaranteed seat. Let the others continue to sell tickets for a chance at a flight. If you want to know that you will have a guaranteed seat, you could choose this other airline and pay whatever that ticket needs to be adjusted to. I buy non-refundable tickets to things all the time, and so do the rest of the peas. What makes this any different? Theater tickets you have to often purchase way in advance and they are not refundable, etc. They could always offer some ability to exchange your ticket with something like a week minimum notice, for some sort of exchange fee, like $100 or something. I don't think the ticket would necessarily have to be that much higher cost. We really don't believe that they are operating at a loss on what they sell the tickets for now, right? Clearly not when you look at their profit levels. If they are just over-booking to protect themselves from losing money flying with empty seats, stop that crap and offer nonrefundable, guaranteed seat tickets. I know that I would likely switch to any airline doing this, up to a reasonable cost increase of say 30%. ETA: Don't need first class seats or service. Just want a safe, guaranteed coach seat, that I can afford to fly with my family in. Thoughts? I thought most airline tickets were non-refundable, except on Southwest. You do have to pay high change fees. There really isn't any good reason to overbook.
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Country Ham
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,314
Jun 25, 2014 19:32:08 GMT
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Post by Country Ham on Apr 12, 2017 16:45:01 GMT
I thought most airline tickets were non-refundable, except on Southwest. You do have to pay high change fees. There really isn't any good reason to overbook. I can't remember the airline now, could of been southwest. It was a few days before Christmas and didn't I get my one and only kidney stone attack? Long story short they decided to blast it that day, my husband called the airlines within 30 mins of our departure to explain what was going on. They rebooked all 4 of us to fly out the next morning with no fees etc. Probably 6 years ago now though. I just remember how hassle free everything was.
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Post by Darcy Collins on Apr 12, 2017 17:03:47 GMT
A proposal. Perhaps the time is right for another airline (not buying it even if United did this) to differentiate themselves from the pack by saying they will not bump paid customers from a flight. You can feel safe flying with them. Both physically and knowing that you will be where you want to be at as close to the ticketed time as possible. Obviously severe weather is going to throw things off, and we don't want a plane with mechanical issues in the air. But none of this other crap. They could make the tickets non-refundable. Offer a guaranteed seat. Let the others continue to sell tickets for a chance at a flight. If you want to know that you will have a guaranteed seat, you could choose this other airline and pay whatever that ticket needs to be adjusted to. I buy non-refundable tickets to things all the time, and so do the rest of the peas. What makes this any different? Theater tickets you have to often purchase way in advance and they are not refundable, etc. They could always offer some ability to exchange your ticket with something like a week minimum notice, for some sort of exchange fee, like $100 or something. I don't think the ticket would necessarily have to be that much higher cost. We really don't believe that they are operating at a loss on what they sell the tickets for now, right? Clearly not when you look at their profit levels. If they are just over-booking to protect themselves from losing money flying with empty seats, stop that crap and offer nonrefundable, guaranteed seat tickets. I know that I would likely switch to any airline doing this, up to a reasonable cost increase of say 30%. ETA: Don't need first class seats or service. Just want a safe, guaranteed coach seat, that I can afford to fly with my family in. Thoughts? I thought most airline tickets were non-refundable, except on Southwest. You do have to pay high change fees. There really isn't any good reason to overbook. It completely depends on the fare class. My company required us to purchase full fare, refundable tickets as our travel plans changed so often. If you're buying the cheapest fare, it will be a non-refundable - but they do offer refundable tickets at a higher price.
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Post by hennybutton on Apr 12, 2017 17:43:20 GMT
I thought most airline tickets were non-refundable, except on Southwest. You do have to pay high change fees. There really isn't any good reason to overbook. I can't remember the airline now, could of been southwest. It was a few days before Christmas and didn't I get my one and only kidney stone attack? Long story short they decided to blast it that day, my husband called the airlines within 30 mins of our departure to explain what was going on. They rebooked all 4 of us to fly out the next morning with no fees etc. Probably 6 years ago now though. I just remember how hassle free everything was. Southwest is the exception to "most". For the other airlines, I don't think many people pay the premium for refundable tickets.
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Post by Darcy Collins on Apr 12, 2017 17:54:36 GMT
I can't remember the airline now, could of been southwest. It was a few days before Christmas and didn't I get my one and only kidney stone attack? Long story short they decided to blast it that day, my husband called the airlines within 30 mins of our departure to explain what was going on. They rebooked all 4 of us to fly out the next morning with no fees etc. Probably 6 years ago now though. I just remember how hassle free everything was. Southwest is the exception to "most". For the other airlines, I don't think many people pay the premium for refundable tickets. Business travelers make up about 20-30% of passengers depending on airline. Industry average for no-shows is about 10%.
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pudgygroundhog
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,648
Location: The Grand Canyon
Jun 25, 2014 20:18:39 GMT
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Post by pudgygroundhog on Apr 12, 2017 19:40:49 GMT
I imagine United will roll out Delta's policy. I very rarely fly Delta - I don't think I've flown them in at least 7-8 yeas. I was surprised yesterday when I posted the stats on voluntary versus involuntary bumping. Delta's numbers are crazy - they have the absolute highest number of bumped passengers, by quite a bit, but they manage to obtain volunteers for the vast majority of them: 10/10,000 passengers bumped, but 0.1/10,000 involuntarily - taking them from #1 bumping, to #9 for unvoluntary bumping. I didn't realize that they have passengers submit a bid for the compensation they'll accept when they check into an oversold flight. So basically by the time boarding begins, the gate agents have a list of who is willing to be bumped and how much. It's a much better system than United's begging for volunteers at boarding. It's explained more here: www.pbs.org/newshour/making-sense/how-delta-masters-the-game-of-overbooking-flights/It's a smart system. According to the DOT Airline Quality Rankings, Delta is #2. Saw it in an article from NPR - which also talks about if you have complaints, call the DOT. Rankings and complain to DOT
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Post by elaine on Apr 12, 2017 21:10:06 GMT
I just watched an interview with Munoz and he turned my stomach.
He, IMO, is only sorry that it was caught on video by several passengers. Otherwise, he would have been a-okay with what went down.
and, how generous to offer everyone on the flight a refund. Not. Wouldn't it have been better to bump up the amount offered for volunteers until they got their 4?
None. And I mean NONE of the various explanations/rationalizations on this thread have changed my opinion one iota. This is what corporate greed looks like. It is disgusting when companies value $$$ - no matter how small - over humane treatment of passengers and honoring their human dignity.
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Post by cadoodlebug on Apr 12, 2017 21:16:51 GMT
I haven't read the 9 pages of posts so maybe this has been discussed already but why did the man give another name besides his own when the police asked him his name?
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Post by anonrefugee on Apr 12, 2017 21:32:34 GMT
I was listening to Munoz, couldn't see his face. The statements about law enforcement seemed a little like deflection to me, maybe even trying to place some blame on the LEOs.
This was all United's doing and could have been avoided.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Sept 28, 2024 10:25:16 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2017 3:14:42 GMT
Munoz still looking for ways to quell the outrage: "United Airlines struggled on Wednesday to respond to a third day of public outrage over widely shared videos of a passenger being dragged off an airplane, offering a refund to every passenger on the flight and promising to no longer have the police remove passengers from planes that are too full." www.nytimes.com/2017/04/12/business/united-dragged-passenger-video-chicago.html
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Post by elaine on Apr 13, 2017 3:31:00 GMT
Munoz still looking for ways to quell the outrage: "United Airlines struggled on Wednesday to respond to a third day of public outrage over widely shared videos of a passenger being dragged off an airplane, offering a refund to every passenger on the flight and promising to no longer have the police remove passengers from planes that are too full."www.nytimes.com/2017/04/12/business/united-dragged-passenger-video-chicago.htmlFor me, it is again an expression of how far corporations feel justified in placing every single penny of possible profit above being just good citizens. No one expects them to be heroes, or make heroic sacrifices. But in what Bizarro World does having armed police forcefully remove peaceful passengers who are doing NOTHING WRONG - not being disruptive, not being drunk, not making threats, just seating in a seat they paid for - seem like a rational and justifiable solution? It is only when a corporation and its culture values money above humane treatment of human beings that what we saw on that flight happens.
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Post by katlady on Apr 13, 2017 3:39:04 GMT
I've been following the news but was wondering if the Doctor was traveling alone or with someone? If you are required to give up your seat, but your travel partner is not, does the travel partner also get compensated if they get off the plane with you?
United is going to end paying a lot for this. They should have not let people board until they got the seat situation taken care of. United will probably settle out of court with the doctor, and they will probably lose a lot of customers.
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Peamac
Pearl Clutcher
Refupea # 418
Posts: 4,229
Jun 26, 2014 0:09:18 GMT
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Post by Peamac on Apr 13, 2017 3:42:43 GMT
katlady- I thought I read somewhere that his wife was with him on the flight.
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