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Post by peasapie on Jun 21, 2017 11:16:08 GMT
In the video, the officer keeps yelling, "Don't pull it out". Why did that happen?
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Post by SockMonkey on Jun 21, 2017 13:15:39 GMT
I heard a juror interviewed on NPR this morning. "No one but Yanez really knows what happened. You don't know and the state didn't prove that he was dishonest. Four years as a policeman and he was very honest, so we kinda took his word for it, I think?" I mean, Castile's girlfriend was also in the car. Pretty sure she knows what happened. And here's an interesting legal analysis: www.npr.org/2017/06/17/533368532/legal-analysis-on-bill-cosbys-mistrial-not-guilty-verdict-in-philando-castile-ca"JOSEPH KENNEDY: Well, I actually wasn't that surprised by the Castile verdict. Jurors in the Castile case were instructed, you know, to judge the use of force from the perspective of the police officer. The jury instruction specifically cautions them against using 20/20 vision of hindsight. And then the jury instruction also sort of primes jurors to think even more specifically about the - from the police officer's point of view - tells them police officers have to make split-second decisions about the use of force under circumstances that are tense, uncertain, rapidly evolving. So the law sort of definitely favors the police. The jury instructions favor the police in use of force cases. These cases are hard for prosecutors to win." |
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Post by beebee on Jun 21, 2017 13:50:59 GMT
In the video, the officer keeps yelling, "Don't pull it out". Why did that happen? I am wondering that myself. |
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Post by SockMonkey on Jun 21, 2017 13:54:07 GMT
In the video, the officer keeps yelling, "Don't pull it out". Why did that happen? I am wondering that myself. Castile was reaching for his drivers' license, requested by the officer. Requested by every officer ever whenever you're pulled over. I guess Castile's mistake was his honesty about having a firearm? The officer assumed he was reaching for the weapon instead of for his license (which he requested). |
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Dani-Mani
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Post by Dani-Mani on Jun 21, 2017 13:54:37 GMT
That dash cam video is damning. I firmly believe that the verdict would've been different had one of those millions of rounds he shot hit that precious little girl.
That man was murdered. Plain and simple.
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Post by SockMonkey on Jun 21, 2017 14:03:29 GMT
The BCA also tried to get Facebook to dig through Diamond Reynolds's Facebook to look for "criminal activity." Tell me they didn't try to assassinate this woman's character to discredit her testimony.
(Thread above includes copies of the warrants, which were eventually rescinded when Facebook told them no.)
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Post by SockMonkey on Jun 21, 2017 14:25:24 GMT
That dash cam video is damning. I firmly believe that the verdict would've been different had one of those millions of rounds he shot hit that precious little girl. That man was murdered. Plain and simple. I guess I'm more cynical. I think they'd still have let him off, even if that baby did get shot. |
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happymomma
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Post by happymomma on Jun 21, 2017 14:26:28 GMT
In the video, the officer keeps yelling, "Don't pull it out". Why did that happen? Good question, since Mr. Castile had already handed him something. What else was he reaching for? What could the officer have reasonably thought he was reaching for? Are trial transcripts available online to read? I know that I am upset about his death. But I also know that in a court of law in the USA, we have to be found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. That doesn't always make for the verdict we want (Casey Anthony anyone?), but it is the system that we have, and that I am thankful for. If any of us or our kids were on trial, we would want 'beyond a reasonable doubt' to stand as well. 10 of these jurors had reasonable doubt with two others being holdouts who eventually changed their position. |
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Post by SockMonkey on Jun 21, 2017 14:27:40 GMT
In the video, the officer keeps yelling, "Don't pull it out". Why did that happen? Good question, since Mr. Castile had already handed him something. What else was he reaching for? What could the officer have reasonably thought he was reaching for? Are trial transcripts available online to read? I know that I am upset about his death. But I also know that in a court of law in the USA, we have to be found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. That doesn't always make for the verdict we want (Casey Anthony anyone?), but it is the system that we have, and that I am thankful for. If any of us or our kids were on trial, we would want 'beyond a reasonable doubt' to stand as well. 10 of these jurors had reasonable doubt with two others being holdouts who eventually changed their position. He had handed him the registration. He was reaching for his license. |
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Post by SockMonkey on Jun 21, 2017 14:29:34 GMT
In the video, the officer keeps yelling, "Don't pull it out". Why did that happen? Good question, since Mr. Castile had already handed him something. What else was he reaching for? What could the officer have reasonably thought he was reaching for? Are trial transcripts available online to read? I know that I am upset about his death. But I also know that in a court of law in the USA, we have to be found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. That doesn't always make for the verdict we want (Casey Anthony anyone?), but it is the system that we have, and that I am thankful for. If any of us or our kids were on trial, we would want 'beyond a reasonable doubt' to stand as well. 10 of these jurors had reasonable doubt with two others being holdouts who eventually changed their position. Why are jurors instructed "to judge the use of force from the perspective of the police officer?" In my mind, jurors should be instructed to judge the use of force as to whether or not it was reasonable and/or warranted. Not from either perspective, but objectively. I mean, that's just in my crazy ass mind, though. |
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likescarrots
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Post by likescarrots on Jun 21, 2017 14:33:31 GMT
In the video, the officer keeps yelling, "Don't pull it out". Why did that happen? Good question, since Mr. Castile had already handed him something. What else was he reaching for? What could the officer have reasonably thought he was reaching for? Are trial transcripts available online to read? I know that I am upset about his death. But I also know that in a court of law in the USA, we have to be found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. That doesn't always make for the verdict we want (Casey Anthony anyone?), but it is the system that we have, and that I am thankful for. If any of us or our kids were on trial, we would want 'beyond a reasonable doubt' to stand as well. 10 of these jurors had reasonable doubt with two others being holdouts who eventually changed their position. super surprising that you're thankful for a system that favors white people and leaves black people dead at the hands of its enforcers. |
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Post by annabella on Jun 21, 2017 14:45:35 GMT
www.nytimes.com/2017/06/20/us/police-shooting-castile-trial-video.htmlI just watched the dashcam video and while it did seem like the police officer shot him so quickly I thought if his wallet is in his right back pocket and his gun is at his right side, he is reaching to the same location so in a split second it would look like that to the police officer that he was reaching for his gun. If I were the passenger I would be terrified that I would be shot in the crossfire sitting so close. I don't know how she was so calm to think let me take out my phone, I would be scared to make any sudden movements, shaking and frozen. Where do male gun owners normally keep their gun when they drive? The BCA also tried to get Facebook to dig through Diamond Reynolds's Facebook to look for "criminal activity." Tell me they didn't try to assassinate this woman's character to discredit her testimony. She is the only witness to the shooting so you have to see if she's credible or would just lie to cover for her boyfriend? She assaulted a woman in a parking lot with a hammer and was arrested for it. Character has always been important in witness testimony. www.startribune.com/woman-who-livestreamed-police-shooting-aftermath-arrested-for-assault/415346654/
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Post by myshelly on Jun 21, 2017 14:57:38 GMT
Good question, since Mr. Castile had already handed him something. What else was he reaching for? What could the officer have reasonably thought he was reaching for? Are trial transcripts available online to read? I know that I am upset about his death. But I also know that in a court of law in the USA, we have to be found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. That doesn't always make for the verdict we want (Casey Anthony anyone?), but it is the system that we have, and that I am thankful for. If any of us or our kids were on trial, we would want 'beyond a reasonable doubt' to stand as well. 10 of these jurors had reasonable doubt with two others being holdouts who eventually changed their position. Why are jurors instructed "to judge the use of force from the perspective of the police officer?" In my mind, jurors should be instructed to judge the use of force as to whether or not it was reasonable and/or warranted. Not from either perspective, but objectively. I mean, that's just in my crazy ass mind, though. That's the law. Not just for police officers, but in most self defense cases. How would it be fair to go back and evaluate someone's actions based on information that person didn't have at the time? It has to be from the actor's perspective. What he knew and thought and felt at the time of the action. It would not compute with our system of justice to judge someone through perfect 20/20 hindsight vision. This isn't a unique law/jury instruction. |
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Jun 21, 2017 15:00:10 GMT
This is local to my community, and very very sad. There were demonstrations last night including a group shutting down I-94. Per a previous comment, one of the jurors granted an interview. Did your community organize anything in response to his death or the trial result? Specifically the school he was employed by? |
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scrappinspidey2
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Post by scrappinspidey2 on Jun 21, 2017 15:22:38 GMT
Where do male gun owners normally keep their gun when they drive? Those who carry, male or female, will keep the gun where they have easy access to it. There are many different areas of the vehicle you can keep the weapon if you choose, that being said, typically it is kept on the dominate side since that is the hand that will be used to reach for it etc. So if you are right handed, you are more likely to keep it some where to the right of your body. If you are left handed, you are more than likely to keep it to the the left side of your body. If you take the class, which some states do not require anymore, they will tell you to use specific wording when being pulled over. This includes not using the words "I have a gun in the car" I don't know that the man in the car used this phrase, I have not watched the videos that are being posted everywhere. The class also teaches you what to do when pulled over etc. Again I have NOT seen the videos, I have not read the transcripts. I am not saying the driver was wrong or right and I am not saying the cop was wrong or right. Im staying out of that all together. |
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Post by annabella on Jun 21, 2017 15:27:50 GMT
Where do male gun owners normally keep their gun when they drive? Those who carry, male or female, will keep the gun where they have easy access to it. There are many different areas of the vehicle you can keep the weapon if you choose, that being said, typically it is kept on the dominate side since that is the hand that will be used to reach for it etc. So if you are right handed, you are more likely to keep it some where to the right of your body. If you are left handed, you are more than likely to keep it to the the left side of your body. If you take the class, which some states do not require anymore, they will tell you to use specific wording when being pulled over. This includes not using the words "I have a gun in the car" I don't know that the man in the car used this phrase, I have not watched the videos that are being posted everywhere. The class also teaches you what to do when pulled over etc. Again I have NOT seen the videos, I have not read the transcripts. I am not saying the driver was wrong or right and I am not saying the cop was wrong or right. Im staying out of that all together. That is exactly what he said. I figured women probably keep their gun in their purses, but thought it might be hard to drive for a man with the gun actually attached to your hip? But I guess that's how police officers drive. Good to know there is specific jargon to use in case they are pulled over. |
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ginacivey
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Post by ginacivey on Jun 21, 2017 16:39:27 GMT
Where do male gun owners normally keep their gun when they drive? Those who carry, male or female, will keep the gun where they have easy access to it. There are many different areas of the vehicle you can keep the weapon if you choose, that being said, typically it is kept on the dominate side since that is the hand that will be used to reach for it etc. So if you are right handed, you are more likely to keep it some where to the right of your body. If you are left handed, you are more than likely to keep it to the the left side of your body. If you take the class, which some states do not require anymore, they will tell you to use specific wording when being pulled over. This includes not using the words "I have a gun in the car" I don't know that the man in the car used this phrase, I have not watched the videos that are being posted everywhere. The class also teaches you what to do when pulled over etc. Again I have NOT seen the videos, I have not read the transcripts. I am not saying the driver was wrong or right and I am not saying the cop was wrong or right. Im staying out of that all together. I am a CCW carrier - i keep a handgun in the center console of the car if i decide to carry the gun with me when i leave the car - i then put it in my purse but keeping it in my purse makes it useless in the car |
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Post by cindyupnorth on Jun 21, 2017 17:25:30 GMT
Did your community organize anything in response to his death or the trial result? Specifically the school he was employed by? There have been tons of community response to this. No one is just sweeping it under the rug. Just google. Including the school. |
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Post by cindyupnorth on Jun 21, 2017 17:26:00 GMT
That is exactly what he said. I figured women probably keep their gun in their purses, but thought it might be hard to drive for a man with the gun actually attached to your hip? But I guess that's how police officers drive. Good to know there is specific jargon to use in case they are pulled over Exactly what WHO said? |
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Jun 21, 2017 17:33:20 GMT
Did your community organize anything in response to his death or the trial result? Specifically the school he was employed by? There have been tons of community response to this. No one is just sweeping it under the rug. Just google. Including the school. Thank you. I've followed the case as closely as I could so I am familiar with all the googleable things. She shared that her best friend's child attended the same school who employed Castile so I was hoping she could provide information google could not. |
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Post by cindyupnorth on Jun 21, 2017 18:08:01 GMT
Oh, sorry, I didn't mean. "hell, just google it." I meant it in a...I'm too lazy to google it for ya, but there have been a ton. ha.
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Post by monicad on Jun 21, 2017 19:45:11 GMT
I am wondering that myself. Castile was reaching for his drivers' license, requested by the officer. Requested by every officer ever whenever you're pulled over. I guess Castile's mistake was his honesty about having a firearm? The officer assumed he was reaching for the weapon instead of for his license (which he requested). If I were reaching for my wallet and the officer yelled "don't pull it out", I'd put my hands up and stop what I was doing and wouldn't keep reaching. |
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Post by monicad on Jun 21, 2017 19:46:34 GMT
Good question, since Mr. Castile had already handed him something. What else was he reaching for? What could the officer have reasonably thought he was reaching for? Are trial transcripts available online to read? I know that I am upset about his death. But I also know that in a court of law in the USA, we have to be found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. That doesn't always make for the verdict we want (Casey Anthony anyone?), but it is the system that we have, and that I am thankful for. If any of us or our kids were on trial, we would want 'beyond a reasonable doubt' to stand as well. 10 of these jurors had reasonable doubt with two others being holdouts who eventually changed their position. He had handed him the registration. He was reaching for his license. You don't know that for certain. |
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Jun 21, 2017 20:03:38 GMT
Castile was reaching for his drivers' license, requested by the officer. Requested by every officer ever whenever you're pulled over. I guess Castile's mistake was his honesty about having a firearm? The officer assumed he was reaching for the weapon instead of for his license (which he requested). If I were reaching for my wallet and the officer yelled "don't pull it out", I'd put my hands up and stop what I was doing and wouldn't keep reaching. Since you've placed yourself in Castile shoes how would you respond to an officer if you had been pulled over 46 times in your driving career. Keep in mind the age of Castile when he was murdered. |
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Post by monicad on Jun 21, 2017 20:11:13 GMT
If I were reaching for my wallet and the officer yelled "don't pull it out", I'd put my hands up and stop what I was doing and wouldn't keep reaching. Since you've placed yourself in Castile shoes how would you respond to an officer if you had been pulled over 46 times in your driving career. Keep in mind the age of Castile when he was murdered. I'd think I'd know exactly what to do if I'd been pulled over that many times. |
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Post by LavenderLayoutLady on Jun 21, 2017 20:14:07 GMT
Just a godawful miscarriage of justice. Disgusting. ITA! |
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Post by annabella on Jun 21, 2017 20:23:07 GMT
Since you've placed yourself in Castile shoes how would you respond to an officer if you had been pulled over 46 times in your driving career. Keep in mind the age of Castile when he was murdered. It appears the stops were warranted as he was a bad driver. If I was in his shoes I wouldn't have a concealed weapon. As a black man carrying a gun I would have pulled out my license from my back pocket before the police officer came to my car to avoid it looking like anything else. Or I would have kept my hands on my steering wheel at all times and asked the officer how would he prefer I extract my license which is next to my gun? |
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Jun 21, 2017 20:23:28 GMT
Since you've placed yourself in Castile shoes how would you respond to an officer if you had been pulled over 46 times in your driving career. Keep in mind the age of Castile when he was murdered. I'd think I'd know exactly what to do if I'd been pulled over that many times. I agree with you, I think he did know what to do which makes it even more unlikely he didn't follow the orders of his murderer. Do you think there is anything unjust regarding the number of times he had been pulled over? |
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happymomma
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Post by happymomma on Jun 21, 2017 20:25:52 GMT
Since you've placed yourself in Castile shoes how would you respond to an officer if you had been pulled over 46 times in your driving career. Keep in mind the age of Castile when he was murdered. It appears the stops were warranted as he was a bad driver. If I was in his shoes I wouldn't have a concealed weapon. As a black man carrying a gun I would have pulled out my license from my back pocket before the police officer came to my car to avoid it looking like anything else. Or I would have kept my hands on my steering wheel at all times and asked the officer how would he prefer I extract my license which is next to my gun? I've taken the concealed carry class in my state and that is exactly what we were taught to do. |
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Jun 21, 2017 20:38:31 GMT
Since you've placed yourself in Castile shoes how would you respond to an officer if you had been pulled over 46 times in your driving career. Keep in mind the age of Castile when he was murdered. It appears the stops were warranted as he was a bad driver. If I was in his shoes I wouldn't have a concealed weapon. As a black man carrying a gun I would have pulled out my license from my back pocket before the police officer came to my car to avoid it looking like anything else. Or I would have kept my hands on my steering wheel at all times and asked the officer how would he prefer I extract my license which is next to my gun? I think we are getting too comfortable with this idea that black people have to behave differently in order to live. |
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