Question: is anyone really looking for civil discourse?

Well. Nothing ever changes.

I haven't been on here in several months. I came just to see how TX peas were fairing. And over the past year or so I only came once a month or so, and would post something occaisionally and then never come back, because I knew no one really was interested in talking, only screaming, and I had no stomach for it anymore. I really quit coming, because frankly, most of the liberal posters had become nothing but angry, emotional women filled with vitriol, with no desire to have a conversation, only to indulge in mob justice.

The poster on page one who likened it to Berkely yesterday was exactly right. Antifa has its roots right here in 2peas land, metaphorically speaking. Liberal peas have been engaging in their tactics for years now. (and if you don't know whats happening in Berkely, well, thats because the media, the Democrats, and some republicans - Mitt Romney - think they are perfectly justified in their actual violence, because of some mythical violence that a handful of idiots were committing for being white and holding a march, or something)

I read an article today that immediately made me think of this place. Binary thinking is killing us. It hit the nail on the head...and I'll preface this by saying that people on both sides are guilty of this phenomenon, but in my experience, far more liberals engage in it than conservatives. If you read the article,some of you will swear that we have had that same argument here many times. One person points out that perhaps people are poor because the make poor choices, like having children out of wedlock, and then a triggered liberal mob will jump in, torches blazing, and rip that person to shreds for being (insert slur/insult here). A great number of liberals are wholly incapable of dealing with nuanced arguments, and instead are all in on the "throw the baby out with the bath water" wagon. Every conversation attempted here in the last, oh, eight years or so, devolved into this kind of free for all. I can't take that level of stupidity anymore. I want to talk with people of varying ideas, who want to have Socratic type discussions, follow the logic, explore those nuances, apply eternal truths, look back at history...but that doesn't happen here. Dare to bring up a quote from a founding father to illustrate a point, and get labeled a racist because said FF was a slave owner (except, it seems, when that FF can be used to justify their own hatred,seeing that missbennet just quoted TJ). THAT is binary Thinking, and that is liberals here in a nutshell. Even the few liberals that I could always count on being somewhat reasonable seem to have disappeared, I guess even they got tired of the hatred.

As to a few other things I read in this thread...

Someone made a statement to the affect of "being more concerned with keeping people out of the military because we don't like their genitals". BULLshit. That's a perfect example of binary thinking right there. Of course, I'll capitulate that Trump and his effing twitter did nothing to help the situation, the effing baffoon. But he was wholly right to issue the order. We keep people out of the military for all kinds of physical and mental reasons...and this is a huge issue. Transgenders are not fit for military duty based upon their medical needs, and their emotional needs. The military, contrary to the past eight years of Obama, is not a social experiment. Its a fighting force, period. Women should not be in combat positions, nor drafted (and I'm waiting on Trump to reverse that bullshit) and transgenders shouldn't either.

Who do I blame for Trump? I've said it before and I'll say it again. I blame you, liberals. YOU. Everyone of you who put on your blinders and patted yourself on the backs for electing a marxist, unqualified, divisive radical black man because you thought it proved that you aren't a racist. I blame you for excusing all the red flags that told us that Obama was going to be a disaster for this country. I blame you for ripping this country apart by using Obamas skin color as a battle axe, beheading anyone who tried to have a reasonable discussion about WHY he was not fit to hold the office. I remember vividly during the '08 election warning you all that politics are a pendulum, and if you insist on electing such an extreme ideologue based solely on the color of his skin, despite the content of his character or his resume, that you would not like what would come next. And that is exactly what you got. YOU made Donald J Trump happen. You own him. Congratulations.

I didn't want Trump. I railed against him right up until the friggin election day. I walked into the booth sick to my stomach. But I pulled the lever for him, because the alternative was even more nauseating. HRC was the worst candidate known to man. yes, worse than Trump. Which says a lot. But liberals everywhere refused to even discuss her issues (And yes, Missbennet, her emails were extremely relevant) and instead waved her gender around like another friggin battle axe. So reasonable americans saw the writing on the wall, and after eight years of being labeled racist and bigots, they wanted no part of being labeled sexist and misogynist for another four. Thats all on you liberals. If you embrace identity politics, its all on you.

So yes, we have an unfit man in the white house. I weep for our country, but Trump is not the problem. we are the problem. We stopped being self sufficient American citizens, and instead became ignorant sniveling offended children waiting around for handouts from the all mighty federal government. We abandoned the Constitution, we put too much power in the hands of the SCOTUS, we burned the legacy of the enlightened men who founded his nation because we refused to look past the bathwater to see the baby. I really fear that Trump will be our last President. Antifa, BLM, and Democrats in general are intent on ripping this country into shreds. We've made it impossible for GOOD people to seek political office - look what happened to the good GOP candidates over the last few cycles, and there sure as hell aren't any decent Democrat candidates out there...if they dare to not toe the alt-left line, they will be crucified.

And with that, I am signing off, for good. I have no need for this place. It's been a ride, 2Peas.

I am looking for political discourse on this board, but I don't get it from conservatives on this board. I wish we had more of it.

The sheriff thread is a great example. People were asking questions about the situation and the response is "it is Hilary's fault". Hilary had nothing to do with the actions of that sheriff. He had been in actions for many years before last year's election even started.

I understand not dictating what can be discussed in a thread, but I don't see the want for discourse when there is only one defense no matter what the thread and what the topic. I don't get it. I also think you (general you) have to acknowledge the hypocrisy and be able to discuss it without taking it personally. Ignoring facts doesn't allow for political discourse either.

I agree that it is hard to expect people to change their minds on an internet board, but I think enlightening others to a different POV is value added. I have learned a lot of things in the past and hope that it will be more prevalent in the future.

Good riddance!!!

Do let the steel door hit you in that big, fat insulting mouth of yours on your way out.

You've never been anything but hateful towards anyone who doesn't think like you.

Well, get you with your balanced and well reasoned last word

PS - How is Obama a Marxist again?

I've mostly steered clear of the political threads lately as it usually takes a handful of posts before the same peas are derailing into petty back and forth nonsense. I have no doubt there are many peas on both sides of the political spectrum who would enjoy civil discourse; I've certainly enjoyed it in prior years. But it hasn't been productive or educational and certainly not civil in quite some time. I had the silly notion when this thread reached multiple pages that perhaps it had been achieved, and stopped by to see - I should have known better.

As a final thought, I've never asked the left leaning peas why they don't call out the more obnoxious posters on their "side" as I assume they do what I do - skip over the blowhards who are adding nothing to the discussion. I have little use people who show up on the boards to fling personal insults and other bullshit - and am not going to waste my time engaging with them. But then again, I don't claim any "side" despite people wanting to throw me into one, my political beliefs don't line up well with either.

I agree, most of the posters just want to bitch and complain. And if you don't bitch and complain in the threads, then you are obviously a Trump supporter, racist or any of the many labels they will call you. You don't have to be a Trump voter or supporter to be labeled one, all it takes is not posting how aweful he is.

 I find better discussion on Facebook, which seems odd. But at least in my circle I have friends of various opinions. And only a few on both sides that are over the top. Which is nice because I don't have to hide as much!

You know how I said I sometimes find it hard to be civil in response to something I find offensive on a visceral level?

I'm finding it hard to find a civil response to lynlam's hateful goodbye.

This is textbook, right wing bullshit. Calling Obama and Hillary dangerous while ignoring the madman in the white house. Comparing left leaning peas to Antifa.

The most civil response I can muster to that tripe is "good riddance."

Exactly!  

As for calling names...I personally do not like when Trump is called cheeto, tiny hands, etc.  I didn't like it when past presidents were called names or drawings/memes were shared that made fun of them, either.  I have said that on threads in the past, but don't feel the need to say it every time someone says it here.  I didn't expect conservative peas to do that, either, when people were calling Obama names.  

There have been so many posts that say what I want to say in a much better way, so I will just leave it at that.  

Sigh. You know, guys, this response will probably elicit a lot of nasty comments back to me, but I'm going to say it. What some of you just did to Lynlam is why lots of conservatives don't feel welcome. Was she polite? No. Was she confrontational? Yes. Did she make some good points that would be interesting to discuss. YES!!

Can you not see that MANY of YOU are just as ugly to conservatives pretty much all the time?? If you can't, there is no point in trying to continue this conversation. Why would your immediate response to Lynlam be along the lines of "don't let the door hit you on the way out?" While her verbiage may not be the most diplomatic, neither is that of many of you! In fact, many of you guys tear conservatives apart when we're not even here arguing with you. Why not engage in polite response stating why you think what she is saying is wrong? She is intelligent and she makes some very good points. Why not discuss them??

And, quite frankly, I'm a bit annoyed at the "remember what Skybar did!" bit. You pick on one person who--let's face it--was never part of the mainstream conservatives posting here--and completely ignore the fact that most of the actual mainstream liberals on this board have (and still are) throwing around words like "racist", "homophobic" etc. etc. at people like me who do not agree with you on many topics. And let's even go back a bit further--have you forgotten the way George Bush was treated on the old forum? Yes, you probably have.

Anyway, why not try to engage in civility. You guys insist you would love some real conversation, but you make people like me (and I've always tried to be polite) feel it just isn't worth it. In fact, I can almost guarantee that I'm going to regret this post.

And inkedup--honestly, you are one liberal who I frequently find myself thinking has made some good points. But just look at the response you just made. "Comparing left leaning peas to Antifa" Really, have you not seen the frequent posts comparing right-leaning Peas to Nazis?" Really you haven't seen that? It works both ways and the highway is far more worn on your side because most of us Conservatives aren't posting on this forum anymore. That said, inkedup, you actually are a moderate Pea (in my estimation) and I hope you will continue to be one as sometimes you tempt me into wanting to have a real conversation with you

Where were all you conservative peas longing for civil discourse after the election when a number of conservatives were chortling about liberal tears? It works both ways. I would like to have more conservatives participate in discussions here, but it's always been a tough crowd and conservatives have always dished it out as well as being "victims" themselves.

If you don't care to participate anymore because people are "mean," that's your right, but please don't pretend it hasn't always been this way, on both sides. Not every pea by any means, but enough to disrupt most threads.

Do you not see that you are minimizing the conservative nastiness while exaggerating the liberal responses?  Lynlam's post was not civil in any way, and never has been.  But we should treat her and others with kid gloves?


In regards to nazi's, racists, homophobia, etc...people are telling it like it is.  If you support a president who has shown over and over again that he is all of those things, and is implementing policies that support that....the truth is that you are those things on some level.  Some people embrace that, as we have seen, and others are still in denial.  You can't change what you don't acknowledge.  

So civil discourse allows one side to say
"Women should not be in combat positions" and disallows the other side to say "that is sexist"?

So your takeaway from Lynlam's post was that the left leaning peas she compared to a terrorist organization were not polite enough in response.

You handslap liberal Peas and blame us for the fact that Lynlam and others have made the choice not to post here. Then, to add insult to injury, you bring up the straw man Nazi comparison. No, it is not the same. There were actual, literal Nazis marching in the streets of Charlottesville. And our president refused to condemn them. Even the Nazis celebrated this fact, as evidenced by their gleeful posts on Stormfront the day after Charlottesville. Some of the posters here refuse to condemn them or the president for his action/inaction in this case. What is that, if not tacit approval of the ideology in question?

I have heard more about the poor, innocent, kind right wing peas who were driven from Pealand by liberals bearing metaphorical torches, than I have heard about the actual, torch bearing Nazis that marched in the streets of Charlottesville. I wish open racism and anti-Semitism angered you in the same way our criticism of Skybar and Donald Trump angers you. 

I'm not going to go tit for tat here. There are people on both sides of the the political spectrum whose views are extremist. I can own that some of the people who share my ideology are uninterested in dialogue. Why can't you?

I'm really trying to be civil, and I'm finding it hard to keep my tone kind, so I'm signing out of this conversation for now.