Question: is anyone really looking for civil discourse?

I read almost all the political threads; I've always been something of a political junkie. I don't always participate because sometimes I have nothing more to say than has already been posted, and sometimes because the thread has devolved into nothing more than a back and forth between two or three people who can't let anything go unchallenged and continually call each other names. Those posts get old and take a lot away from the chance to really discuss issues and events - which I greatly enjoy.

I don't like Trump, I do think he's a narcissistic disaster as a president, but I don't need to call him names that reflect on his personal appearance. Things like that kind of undermine the points someone is trying to make.

I like reading thoughtful, well-written posts from any side. I may not agree with everyone, and I'm admittedly a flaming liberal, but I like learning about what other people think and believe. There are posters of all persuasions who contribute information and post thoughtful opinions.

I have to admit, snowsilver , I usually enjoy reading your posts. One thing that I read often from conservatives was also in one of your posts today and I wonder, as I always do, what exactly is meant by this:

"But they feel change was needed in the way the country was going"

What change did you feel is needed? I'm always curious about this. Do you disagree with extending rights to more people, giving more people the right to be married, trying to provide health care to all people, regulations that aim to help protect the environment? Is the change you feel is needed to go back to the way things were before - and what exactly?

There were many varied reasons that many conservatives were concerned. Some of my own I just won't put out on this board because in 10 seconds flat I'd get the "racist" tag even though I am not a racist. I will list a few things I wanted to see change:
Obama nearly doubled the national debt and that is very worrisome. I remember when Dan Rather ran a ticker at the bottom of his newscast during Reagan's presidency screeching at how much the national debt was increasing. But somehow when it was a Democratic president, it became nothing to worry about.

Jobs: Although there has been a recovery, joblessness was a HUGE problem under Obama's presidency. Many, many of the kids my son graduated from college with could not find jobs anywhere. Especially teachers.  Illegal immigration: That was--and still is--a major concern for me. IRS: The absolutely  defenseless targeting of conservatives by the IRS under presidency.  Obamacare: This to me is an absolute disaster (and no, I'm not interested in arguing it on this thread--on another dedicated thread perhaps--I'm just listing the things I wanted to see changed). Israel: I thought his policy towards Israel was absolutely wrong.  Iraq: He left too soon and he will ultimately be blamed for the rise of ISIS in history books (my opinion!).

That is a small list of why I wanted to see change. I hope I have been polite in this--you were polite to me.  Thank you for asking.

I also blame those who voted third party to make a point

But I ask again, what does me calling out Donald Trump on this board going to accomplish? Will me stating on this board that he is a despicable human being bring change or make the world a better place? You want me to denounce this President and Administration to simply make you feel better?

Gee, snowsilver , Elise. I am somewhat confused. You made a point of mentioning my Trump is Deplorable thread by name and how that was the final straw. I took the time to respond to you. You appear to have ignored my response.

My only hope is that you heard in my words the impact of Trump's presidency has had that for those of us whom the Nazi's devastated our family trees and culture. For us, that in 2017 Nazis march proudly in the streets of America and that our president supports them IS an indication that the sky IS falling.

My sadness is that the conservatives who "left" our board are actively conversing on their own board, and you will choose to believe Lauren's take on it, over the overwhelming majority of other Jews in the world.

I would love it if you started a poll on this board as to how peas feel with the new reality that Nazis are welcomed by the President and are viewed by him to contain some "very fine people" - and have one choice be "I am Jewish and Trump's reaction makes me feel as if the sky is falling" and another choice be "I am not Jewish, and Trump's reaction to them makes me feel as if the sky is falling." You can word the other choices to make them seem more appealing than I can.

I grew up watching German made videos of the Holocaust starting in kindergarten religious school - so at age 5. I also was told by adults in my life, hand in hand with those videos, "Never again. We watch these videos so that it will never be allowed to happen again.

People of color and Latinos can speak more eloquently to the issues they have with Arpaio and the KKK, but some of the themes are parallel, and I understand them.

For many people who are not straight, white, male, Christian, it does feel like our country has leaped back 67 years in terms of social progress; which for many of us is a feeling as if the sky is falling. 

I hope that you will respond to me here, rather than just vent about what a horrible, condescending person I am on your other board. You called me here. But it is up to you.  

Of course not. If you think he's doing just fine and you're not worried, own it and take what comes. No need to say anything that isn't true. But if you do denounce him and his administration, I don't understand the problem with saying so.

"own it and take what comes" ? So you (and others) think you can require people here (or anywhere) to publicly claim a position? You must think really highly of yourself.

Yes. Yes, I do. Because it would give me hope that conservatives see what is being done and do not stand for it.

Yes.

Bwhahahaha!  You opposed HER moral character but voted for Trump.  Because his moral character is so much better! WTF!  Just take your one sided short memory and go.

I expect everyone to denounce Nazi's marching freely in America. And when they refuse, hide behind obfuscations, it makes me wonder where they really stand on the issue, president, senator or citizen I want to see everyone appalled by Nazis chanting racist slogans. I want them - the Nazis- to know they are not welcome and we will not accept this.

I want to know that if the president is a Nazi sympathizer that my fellow citizens are not. I want to know if they are just going to stand by and say why bother what will it do. I want to know when the Nazis come for me or my kids where do you stand. Will you be outraged or complacent?

Maybe you think I'm over reacting to a bunch of people 'demonstrating' by chanting anti Semitic things, proudly on camera, too bad it hits home, my niece is Heather Hayers age, lives in Va. it's way too close to home for me.

So yes, I want people, everyone to denounce Nazis and white supremacists just to make me feel better. Absolutely

"BUT, if you stay silent when Trump does very little to make a clear statement that Nazis are not welcome in this country, then you are condoning their actions."

I have seen this sentiment posted many times for quite some time. I have an honest question...even if every conservative no longer "stayed silent" what does that accomplish, exactly? Even if every person on this board participated in the daily threads here about Trump and his tiny hands, what does that accomplish? Why do left leaning peas hope to accomplish with the "calling out" of Trump or his Administration? Trump doesn't read here so why does the left want the right calling him out so badly? What good will that do? Sure , individuals can take part in demonstrations, contact their elected officials and VOTE their satisfaction or dissatisfaction with any elected official, but why the constant cry for the "calling out" of Trump?

Lucy, perhaps I had blinders on but my very real memory of what happened after the election was a perfectly awful thread calling every person who voted for Trump the most dreadful names imaginable. I changed my opinion of a lot of Peas after that thread. I'd need you to link me to a "liberal tear" thread that happened at the time because I don't remember it. NOT saying it didn't happen--just saying I don't remember it. Perhaps we both remember what struck home to each of us!

And let's be real here--you're own post here has a tone of "liberal tears" in it but it's aimed at me (and others like me) who "don't care to participate because people are mean". 

I am a liberal, who used to be Republican.  What I would like to see is good, decent people stand up against tyranny and oppression.  Doesn't matter if you are liberal or conservative there are certain behaviors that as a society I believe we should not tolerate no matter which political party is in office.  There should never be the fear that any group can push their agenda on the American people and just expect blind compliance. 

We we are one nation "Under God" but I will defend each citizen's individual right to worship any God they want to.  I want every person to call out racism, homophobia, xenophobia.  I want my fellow citizens to scream out in a loud collective voice saying, "No, you can not treat others badly". 

I guess what I am saying is I would prefer to stand shoulder-to-shoulder with conservatives and liberals.  I would like reassurance from all that we have a shared vision.

I also think, Pink Lady, that treating conservatives, who voted for Trump, like the scum of the earth adds nothing of value.  All it does do is further divide us.

But my broad question remains...if I were to type in bold letters on this board "no Donald, you cannot treat people like this" what have I accomplished? Someone has said it would make them feel better, someone has said it may empower more people to stand up and call out what this President has done, and someone said what people can read on this board can make the aware of issues going on around them. All good answers and I appreciate the time taken to reply, but I just can't see how that's going to empower change or make the world a better place. Peaceful demonstrations could empower change, contacting your elected officials could bring change. Volunteering for a campaign you believe in and voting...that's something I can do to bring change. I just don't think whether I denounce Trump on this board or not is going to do shit which is why I never understood why the desperate push to force people to denounce