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Post by annaintx on Aug 29, 2017 12:31:55 GMT
I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt and assume they are helping in other ways, especially since the convention center down the road was set up as a shelter. Maybe there wasn't the need for more shelter space. The convention center is several miles away, not down the road, and it's over capacity now with more than 8000 people there. This. The convention center is almost 6 miles away via freeways from Osteen's "church." Googlemaps is telling me it would take about 15 minutes to drive between the two. It is not feasible to just send people on foot to the convention center from that neighborhood. If you don't know, Osteen did NOT go to school to be a minister. He went for broadcast journalism (or something close to that) and he did not complete his degree. He worked in his dad's church as a camera operator and inherited the congregation. His "church" is in the former Houston Summit--a very large concert venue. The Houston Rockets used to play there, I've seen many concerts there in the past. And how many "ministers" do you know who have their names emblazoned on the side of their church? I would assume the only reason he might be opening his church now is because of the backlash. He does not run a religious institution, he runs a business. |
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Post by SockMonkey on Aug 29, 2017 12:37:31 GMT
What does being Christian have to do with it??? It's a function of human decency to help others in need. My town's LIBRARY has been open as a shelter for the last several natural disasters - the staff VOLUNTEERED because they are decent human beings My town's town hall & Rec center are open for emergencies. Because it's the right thing to do. ( I have no idea how they staff it though ) My temple has been open as a shelter many times. ( btw we have 1 part time janitor ) open during blizzards and hurricanes and as a cooling center every heat wave. 2 weeks every summer for homeless families. Because it the right thing to do. ( and hey we've never had a theft issue lucky us ) Texas is full of people out there doing the right thing. Human to human helping each other. There are a few bad people, but from here it certainly looks like the good people out weigh the bad by a landslide. Neighbors taking in neighbors, strangers helping each other. Because there's a whole bunch of decent human beings doing the right thing. Has nothing to do with how or if they worship. If Joel Osteen and his church do not want to participate in that, that's their choice. But it speaks not only about their 'Christianity' but also about their humanity and decency. Totally agree. It's just ironic when someone who has built a business around "Christian values" doesn't demontstrate them in a time of great need. |
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AnotherPea
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by AnotherPea on Aug 29, 2017 12:45:09 GMT
Just wondering...
how many posters on here would have commented/posted/created a thread praising a mega church for opening as a shelter? It would have been its own thread? Surely, a great kindness would have received as much air time as a perceived slight, no? Definitely more attention than a pseudo-celebrity in a custom-made dress from a cheap-ass clothing store?
Would the praise be as free-flowing as the hate? Curious because there seems to be a lot of people on this board that will bash Christians in a heartbeat.
FTR, I'm not a fan of mega churches at all or pastors that run churches like corporations. I do think there are a lot of things to consider and it is probably much easier to open a mattress store as a shelter than a huge church.
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Post by annaintx on Aug 29, 2017 12:47:49 GMT
Just wondering... how many posters on here would have commented/posted/created a thread praising a mega church for opening as a shelter? It would have been its own thread? Surely, a great kindness would have received as much air time as a perceived slight, no? Definitely more attention than a pseudo-celebrity in a custom-made dress from a cheap-ass clothing store? Would the praise be as free-flowing as the hate? Curious because there seems to be a lot of people on this board that will bash Christians in a heartbeat. FTR, I'm not a fan of mega churches at all or pastors that run churches like corporations. I do think there are a lot of things to consider and it is probably much easier to open a mattress store as a shelter than a huge church. Please do not confuse Joel Osteen with being a Christian. He is in name only. If he had opened the church, it would have been shockingly out of character for him, and many would have posted, "OH WOW he actually opened the church for people in need!" I grew up in Houston, still have ties there. Did you see on the Weather channel the video of the priest in Houston who was in his kayak/canoe, trying to find wine to say mass for his parishoners because he thought they would want that for comfort/peace? THAT is being a Christian. ETA: Found the video. You can see it in this article: Priest Kayaks |
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MorningPerson
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,506
Location: Central Pennsylvania
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Post by MorningPerson on Aug 29, 2017 12:50:00 GMT
What does being Christian have to do with it??? It's a function of human decency to help others in need. My town's LIBRARY has been open as a shelter for the last several natural disasters - the staff VOLUNTEERED because they are decent human beings My town's town hall & Rec center are open for emergencies. Because it's the right thing to do. ( I have no idea how they staff it though ) My temple has been open as a shelter many times. ( btw we have 1 part time janitor ) open during blizzards and hurricanes and as a cooling center every heat wave. 2 weeks every summer for homeless families. Because it the right thing to do. ( and hey we've never had a theft issue lucky us ) Texas is full of people out there doing the right thing. Human to human helping each other. There are a few bad people, but from here it certainly looks like the good people out weigh the bad by a landslide. Neighbors taking in neighbors, strangers helping each other. Because there's a whole bunch of decent human beings doing the right thing. Has nothing to do with how or if they worship. If Joel Osteen and his church do not want to participate in that, that's their choice. But it speaks not only about their 'Christianity' but also about their humanity and decency. I couldn't agree more. It's not about being good Christians - it's about being good humans. SaveSave |
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Post by monklady123 on Aug 29, 2017 13:05:19 GMT
Just wondering... how many posters on here would have commented/posted/created a thread praising a mega church for opening as a shelter? It would have been its own thread? Surely, a great kindness would have received as much air time as a perceived slight, no? Definitely more attention than a pseudo-celebrity in a custom-made dress from a cheap-ass clothing store? Would the praise be as free-flowing as the hate? Curious because there seems to be a lot of people on this board that will bash Christians in a heartbeat. FTR, I'm not a fan of mega churches at all or pastors that run churches like corporations. I do think there are a lot of things to consider and it is probably much easier to open a mattress store as a shelter than a huge church. Yes, I'm sure we would have been here praising a mega church for opening. Especially in this time when the evangelicals who call themselves Christians are still sitting on trump's council and still supporting trump in the face of amazingly un-Christian things coming from the White House. It would be lovely to see a large evangelical church going against the trend. I'm a Christian and I'll bash Osteen in a heartbeat because I despise his Prosperity Gospel. I think it's a horrible damaging un-Christian theology. |
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rodeomom
Pearl Clutcher
Refupee # 380 "I don't have to run fast, I just have to run faster than you."
Posts: 3,661
Location: Chickasaw Nation, Oklahoma
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Post by rodeomom on Aug 29, 2017 13:09:01 GMT
Just wondering... how many posters on here would have commented/posted/created a thread praising a mega church for opening as a shelter? It would have been its own thread? Surely, a great kindness would have received as much air time as a perceived slight, no? Definitely more attention than a pseudo-celebrity in a custom-made dress from a cheap-ass clothing store? Would the praise be as free-flowing as the hate? Curious because there seems to be a lot of people on this board that will bash Christians in a heartbeat. FTR, I'm not a fan of mega churches at all or pastors that run churches like corporations. I do think there are a lot of things to consider and it is probably much easier to open a mattress store as a shelter than a huge church. No one is bashing Christians! You can be a good decent human being with out being christian. |
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Post by elaine on Aug 29, 2017 13:23:34 GMT
I've praised the Mega Church that provides respite care for my boys many times here on this board and in my life.
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Post by Merge on Aug 29, 2017 13:23:56 GMT
Just wondering... how many posters on here would have commented/posted/created a thread praising a mega church for opening as a shelter? It would have been its own thread? Surely, a great kindness would have received as much air time as a perceived slight, no? Definitely more attention than a pseudo-celebrity in a custom-made dress from a cheap-ass clothing store? Would the praise be as free-flowing as the hate? Curious because there seems to be a lot of people on this board that will bash Christians in a heartbeat. FTR, I'm not a fan of mega churches at all or pastors that run churches like corporations. I do think there are a lot of things to consider and it is probably much easier to open a mattress store as a shelter than a huge church. Jim McInvale, owner of the "mattress store" (it's actually a huge furniture superstore with several locations) is a devout Catholic who frequently posts bible verses on his company Facebook and makes no bones about the fact that his is a Christian organization. He gives frequently and generously to many causes here in Houston. He employs thousands and, from all reports, pays and treats them well. His philanthropic reputation here, at least for the 20 years I've lived in Houston, is stellar. Please consider the praise free-flowing from me toward him, as well as the many other churches and religious groups who are helping and will continue to help during this crisis. The bible says that we reap what we sow. Joel Osteen is reaping the reputation he and his wife have built as nasty, money-grubbing folks who take Houstonians' money in the collection plate every week but show contempt for the city in need. My personal feelings about him have nothing to do with Christianity, and everything to do with who he has shown himself to be over several years. |
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Post by annaintx on Aug 29, 2017 13:27:10 GMT
I just saw that Osteen is opening the church because of the backlash on social media. And he is denying they ever closed their doors yet there is video evidence of that fact. Osteen opens church |
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Post by monklady123 on Aug 29, 2017 13:36:42 GMT
I've praised the Mega Church that provides respite care for my boys many times here on this board and in my life. I was actually thinking of them and their program of respite care when I posted earlier.  (although...they do preach the prosperity gospel also... but at least they're putting their "faith into action" as we say in my mini-church ) |
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Post by annabella on Aug 29, 2017 13:52:51 GMT
I don't know anything about the mattress store guy but the fact seems to be that he offered before anyone could ask. Maybe he regrets his ruthless past (someone said he stepped on people to get where he is today...?). Like I said, I know nothing about him so this is just me rambling. But it's one thing for someone to see an emergency and say "oh here's how I can help" right off the bat, and another for someone to do it after a day or so of negative publicity. I could be cynical and say it's a business move. He gets his business name out there for free publicity. Then has an after the storm sale because he has to move the used furniture and everyone needs to replace their flooded living room furniture so they support a business that supported flood victims. On the other hand we saw what happened in the Superdome and Morial after Katrina and the conditions that emerged. Without infrastructure and preparation a shelter can easily become a mass rescue effort. Also something factual that I know from being in committees, not because it was being complained about, is that aside from the cost of food, supplies, etc, there is always damage or a good amount of theft during the time we're open for emergencies. We do it and we do it with love but there ARE additional concerns other than "just" opening the doors. Yes I immediately thought of the Superdome and how they considered tearing it down after Katrina because it harbored so many bad memories and experiences that happened inside of it. |
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Deleted
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May 19, 2024 20:26:29 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2017 13:52:55 GMT
It would also be nice if the Vatican unloaded some of it's wealth ($10-15 billion) to help others....(and I'm catholic).
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Post by annaintx on Aug 29, 2017 13:55:37 GMT
I don't know anything about the mattress store guy but the fact seems to be that he offered before anyone could ask. Maybe he regrets his ruthless past (someone said he stepped on people to get where he is today...?). Like I said, I know nothing about him so this is just me rambling. But it's one thing for someone to see an emergency and say "oh here's how I can help" right off the bat, and another for someone to do it after a day or so of negative publicity. I could be cynical and say it's a business move. He gets his business name out there for free publicity. Then has an after the storm sale because he has to move the used furniture and everyone needs to replace their flooded living room furniture so they support a business that supported flood victims. On the other hand we saw what happened in the Superdome and Morial after Katrina and the conditions that emerged. Without infrastructure and preparation a shelter can easily become a mass rescue effort. Also something factual that I know from being in committees, not because it was being complained about, is that aside from the cost of food, supplies, etc, there is always damage or a good amount of theft during the time we're open for emergencies. We do it and we do it with love but there ARE additional concerns other than "just" opening the doors. Yes I immediately thought of the Superdome and how they considered tearing it down after Katrina because it harbored so many bad memories and experiences that happened inside of it. As a born and bred Houstonian, I can guarantee that Mac is NOT doing this for publicity. He has done lots of philanthropic things over the years. |
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Post by annabella on Aug 29, 2017 13:56:23 GMT
If you don't know, Osteen did NOT go to school to be a minister. He went for broadcast journalism (or something close to that) and he did not complete his degree. He worked in his dad's church as a camera operator and inherited the congregation. His "church" is in the former Houston Summit--a very large concert venue. The Houston Rockets used to play there, I've seen many concerts there in the past. That's why I don't see Joel Osteen in the same light as other mega church preachers. This wasn't his goal in life, he just fell into it. He seems like a super nice guy, naively nice, not wearing a flashy suit. I also don't ever foresee him having a gay or sex scandal. He honestly seems like a good guy, but when you get so damn filthy rich of course that alone just rubs people the wrong way. I read somewhere that he no longer takes money from his church or book sales? One or the other. I'd love a discussion on why people don't like him. I've learned quite a bit from this thread. |
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Post by redshoes on Aug 29, 2017 14:01:46 GMT
When did he say church was closed as a shelter? As I understood it, he cancelled weekend services due to flooding (which I did not interpret as the church/grounds flooded, just general Houston area, making it difficult for staff/members to attend).
I would imagine there are many more logistics involved in opening a large space as a shelter than people realize.
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Post by agengr2004 on Aug 29, 2017 14:03:21 GMT
Joel Osteen is proof that claiming to be a Christian doesn't make you a good person. It's a sad day when local furniture stores and grocery stores step up before "Christian" organizations with millions of dollars in resources and a facility that can hold thousands. And if you're in Texas and have an HEB where you live, they are taking monetary donations and in store food donations for disaster relief. There was a huge convoy of trucks and huge mobile kitchens that went down to the Port A/Rockport area this weekend www.heb.com/static-page/Disaster-Relief?_requestid=40533. |
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Aug 29, 2017 14:09:12 GMT
What does being Christian have to do with it??? It's a function of human decency to help others in need. My town's LIBRARY has been open as a shelter for the last several natural disasters - the staff VOLUNTEERED because they are decent human beings My town's town hall & Rec center are open for emergencies. Because it's the right thing to do. ( I have no idea how they staff it though ) My temple has been open as a shelter many times. ( btw we have 1 part time janitor ) open during blizzards and hurricanes and as a cooling center every heat wave. 2 weeks every summer for homeless families. Because it the right thing to do. ( and hey we've never had a theft issue lucky us ) Texas is full of people out there doing the right thing. Human to human helping each other. There are a few bad people, but from here it certainly looks like the good people out weigh the bad by a landslide. Neighbors taking in neighbors, strangers helping each other. Because there's a whole bunch of decent human beings doing the right thing. Has nothing to do with how or if they worship. If Joel Osteen and his church do not want to participate in that, that's their choice. But it speaks not only about their 'Christianity' but also about their humanity and decency. Well said!! There is no doubt that ALL kinds people help when they are able and we are thankful. A note though: Osteen claims to be a Christian so he should be doing good deeds. |
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Post by auntkelly on Aug 29, 2017 14:14:53 GMT
I think it's great that Jim McInvale opened his stores as shelters. So many businesses, churches and individuals have already been so generous.
Corporate America is often criticized for being greedy (and much of the criticism is well deserved) but they sure do act fast in these type of disasters and bring a lot of much needed relief.
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Dalai Mama
Drama Llama
La Pea Boheme
Posts: 6,985
Jun 26, 2014 0:31:31 GMT
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Post by Dalai Mama on Aug 29, 2017 14:24:26 GMT
Just wondering... how many posters on here would have commented/posted/created a thread praising a mega church for opening as a shelter? It would have been its own thread? Surely, a great kindness would have received as much air time as a perceived slight, no? Definitely more attention than a pseudo-celebrity in a custom-made dress from a cheap-ass clothing store? Would the praise be as free-flowing as the hate? Curious because there seems to be a lot of people on this board that will bash Christians in a heartbeat. FTR, I'm not a fan of mega churches at all or pastors that run churches like corporations. I do think there are a lot of things to consider and it is probably much easier to open a mattress store as a shelter than a huge church. How many posters started a thread about a mattress store opening its doors? People stepping up and helping their fellow humans isn't news, its basic decency. Closing the doors of a charitable organization when so many are in need of help is understandably more interesting than people just doing what their religious text directs them to. |
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Post by workingclassdog on Aug 29, 2017 14:25:39 GMT
I despise Joel Osteen so my opinion would be extremely skewed. Never a fan of his.. he always seemed to full of himself, plus lots of other reasons. Open the church or not.. still can's stand him. |
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Post by Clair on Aug 29, 2017 14:31:20 GMT
Why couldn't he open his church and let the Red Cross or another rescue organization staff it? I don't remember all of the details but I do remember this being a big deal when my former city faced a natural disaster. The Red Cross simply was not a good thing. They had so many rules and stipulations that the shelters had to refuse their "services." They have good PR though. You think the Red Cross is not good because they have stipulations on their shelters? For human safety the Red Cross does have regulations when setting up their shelters. The Red Cross also has shelter agreements in place. They are not allowed to just set up a shelter randomly. Locations are vetted on an ongoing basis. Why would they set up at that mega church when there is a plan in place to set up a shelter nearby. When you hear on the news that a shelter has been set up in a particular location - that location most likely was agreed upon years in advance. I can't recall the measurement - but for instance, cots need to have certain spacing between them. There has to be a safe way to feed people. My brain is not awake and cannot think of all the shelter set up rules. An unsafe shelter can be very dangerous. Is the Red Cross perfect - heck no but they do a great job at what they do. Sleeves up. Hearts open. All in. |
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imsirius
Prolific Pea
Call it as I see it.
Posts: 7,661
Location: Floating in the black veil.
Jul 12, 2014 19:59:28 GMT
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Post by imsirius on Aug 29, 2017 14:41:22 GMT
Someone posted on fb that the only thing Osteen's church shelters is taxes.
Some truth to that right there.
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Post by Darcy Collins on Aug 29, 2017 14:42:22 GMT
I don't know Joel Osteen nor any specific details about his church's feasibility as a shelter. I do hope the people of Houston are spared the disaster of large buildings being opened without the necessary infrastructure to ensure their safety and critical supplies.
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Rhondito
Pearl Clutcher
MississipPea
Posts: 4,664
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Post by Rhondito on Aug 29, 2017 14:49:05 GMT
I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt and assume they are helping in other ways, especially since the convention center down the road was set up as a shelter. Maybe there wasn't the need for more shelter space. I read the capacity of that convention center is 5,000 and they currently have 8,800 people there. That's almost double. Besides, think about it - one shelter is not going to hold all of the displaced citizens. There is an enormous need for a dry, safe place for all these people to go. My church, located 2 1/2 hours north of the MS Gulf Coast, and 3 hours away from New Orleans, opened it's doors for Katrina evacuees. Shame on Joel Osteen. |
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Post by femalebusiness on Aug 29, 2017 14:52:20 GMT
Why couldn't he open his church and let the Red Cross or another rescue organization staff it? He may not have an agreement with Red Cross. If he does not have naterials and round the clock volunteers, how is he supposed to operate. Out church has had an agreement with Red Cross in place for years, just in case. Have no idea who this guy is, nor do I know what resources he has, or the makeup of his church And, from being involved with Family Promise, a faith based organization providing shelter, food, etc. to homeless families, there are MANY churches that do not want to get involved in the work of being Christian. Thankfully there are those that do, including my tiny church I have always found that the smaller the church, the more helpful and Christian they are to people in need. |
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Post by jenis40 on Aug 29, 2017 15:00:13 GMT
Whatever the reasons are for not opening as a shelter (and there may be many good reasons) the optics of this are terrible. Many smaller churches and mosques have opened their doors in Houston to provide temporary shelter and services.
Personally, I find it hard to believe that a building of this size that ostensibly has a charitable mission, located in an area prone to natural disasters, didn't have a plan in place to provide services to those in need. It doesn't speak well for the "Christians" in THIS congregation.
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Post by kels99 on Aug 29, 2017 15:02:56 GMT
I don't know Joel Osteen nor any specific details about his church's feasibility as a shelter. I do hope the people of Houston are spared the disaster of large buildings being opened without the necessary infrastructure to ensure their safety and critical supplies. Agreed. I think comparing opening a mattress store to a couple hundred people vs opening a mega church to several thousands of people is comparing apples to oranges. Especially if the mega church didn't already have plans in place to be a shelter. I have no feelings about Osteen one way or the other, but I can't imagine the logistics of trying to feed and shelter thousands. |
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Post by Merge on Aug 29, 2017 15:03:53 GMT
I don't know Joel Osteen nor any specific details about his church's feasibility as a shelter. I do hope the people of Houston are spared the disaster of large buildings being opened without the necessary infrastructure to ensure their safety and critical supplies. This is a valid concern. I'm sure the Osteens have it in their means, however, to coordinate with government or charitable entities that DO know how to safely run a shelter, and simply need an accessible building with water, bathrooms, kitchen, etc. They are a large organization and certainly have business and publicity folks who have the necessary contacts. |
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Post by MichyM on Aug 29, 2017 15:08:34 GMT
I don't know anything about the mattress store guy but the fact seems to be that he offered before anyone could ask. Maybe he regrets his ruthless past (someone said he stepped on people to get where he is today...?). Like I said, I know nothing about him so this is just me rambling. But it's one thing for someone to see an emergency and say "oh here's how I can help" right off the bat, and another for someone to do it after a day or so of negative publicity. I could be cynical and say it's a business move. He gets his business name out there for free publicity. Then has an after the storm sale because he has to move the used furniture and everyone needs to replace their flooded living room furniture so they support a business that supported flood victims. On the other hand we saw what happened in the Superdome and Morial after Katrina and the conditions that emerged. Without infrastructure and preparation a shelter can easily become a mass rescue effort. Also something factual that I know from being in committees, not because it was being complained about, is that aside from the cost of food, supplies, etc, there is always damage or a good amount of theft during the time we're open for emergencies. We do it and we do it with love but there ARE additional concerns other than "just" opening the doors. Yes I immediately thought of the Superdome and how they considered tearing it down after Katrina because it harbored so many bad memories and experiences that happened inside of it. I live in Seattle, never been to Houston, and I've heard of this (mattress) guy. His reputation precedes him. I don't think he's helping folks impacted by the storm in order to help his business in the end. |
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