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Post by monklady123 on Aug 30, 2017 12:34:34 GMT
CNN is going to interview Osteen in a few minutes. Just a few minutes ago I had to listen to them talking to Chris Christie, and right before that was a replay of trump's visit yesterday. I think I need to go look at those photos of pets being rescued, then I'll take my dog for a walk.
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Post by compeateropeator on Aug 30, 2017 12:43:28 GMT
Well he was on CBS this morning trying to do some damage control, truthfully I don't think people are totally believing it but he is trying. You've got to love Gayle King...after she introduced him she said something like not to make light of things but "you got some 'splaining to do".
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Post by elaine on Aug 30, 2017 12:54:03 GMT
I saw him interviewed on GMA/GMWashington. He kept contradicting himself, jumping back and forth between saying things about not opening the doors because of not wanting to put people in danger if there was flooding in the area to saying that their doors were never closed. He wasn't believable in the slightest.
That said, I am glad that he is serving people in need now and I'm glad for the variety of help his church is providing.
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Post by *KAS* on Aug 30, 2017 12:56:53 GMT
I'm not defending him, but this article has a lot more info - including that the church was in communication with city officials from the beginning about being used as a shelter, that they flooded in a previous storm and expected to again, and that they don't have showers or a kitchen (really?!). But I will confirm that I received an email from Samaritan's Purse Disaster Relief (I've volunteered with them multiple times) over the weekend - before the controversy - and it said they were working with Lakewood Church to be able to mobilize as soon as it was safe to move in and start helping. So I can't speak for the building but the members of the church were not idle behind the scenes. www1.cbn.com/cbnnews/us/2017/august/here-is-the-complete-story-behind-the-attacks-on-joel-osteen-rsquo-s-lakewood-church
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Post by compeateropeator on Aug 30, 2017 13:28:06 GMT
I'm not defending him, but this article has a lot more info - including that the church was in communication with city officials from the beginning about being used as a shelter, that they flooded in a previous storm and expected to again, and that they don't have showers or a kitchen (really?!). But I will confirm that I received an email from Samaritan's Purse Disaster Relief (I've volunteered with them multiple times) over the weekend - before the controversy - and it said they were working with Lakewood Church to be able to mobilize as soon as it was safe to move in and start helping. So I can't speak for the building but the members of the church were not idle behind the scenes. www1.cbn.com/cbnnews/us/2017/august/here-is-the-complete-story-behind-the-attacks-on-joel-osteen-rsquo-s-lakewood-churchI am guessing that there is a lot of truth in this and that there were some legitimate reasons. However for an organization that is so big, and so big on spreading the gospel, they didn't do a very good job of spreading this information to the public. Their PR people and Joel himself dropped the ball and now, whether warranted or not, this is what people are going to remember. Unfortunately damage control after the fact will not undo a lot of the bad press that this got.
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julieb
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,845
Jul 3, 2014 16:02:54 GMT
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Post by julieb on Aug 30, 2017 14:50:11 GMT
I'm sure he is sitting in his mega mansion, with his mega fake wife, waiting out the storm.
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oh yvonne
Prolific Pea
Posts: 8,003
Jun 26, 2014 0:45:23 GMT
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Post by oh yvonne on Aug 30, 2017 15:25:53 GMT
I'm sure he is sitting in his mega mansion, with his mega fake wife, waiting out the storm. omg. make it stop now with the name calling and meanness. I'm not a fan of the guy but really? Isn't this a time to stop this petty shit?
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Post by Zee on Aug 30, 2017 16:11:14 GMT
Cut this guy a break, would you? Obviously his church was meant to be a TAX shelter, not a STORM shelter. Sheesh.
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Post by Zee on Aug 30, 2017 16:12:34 GMT
(I totally stole that from fb btw. Made me laugh just a little.)
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Post by *KAS* on Aug 30, 2017 21:48:01 GMT
It sure is easy to judge others from your keyboard in your nice, dry home, isn't it? Next time we have a historical storm a town should just go on the internet and ask all the keyboard warriors what to do. They always have it all figured out. Almost as annoying as all the people that were complaining that the Kardashians 'only' donated $500k, as if they are somehow obligated to donate at all. The only positive thing I ever see out of disasters like this are the strength of the American people working together regardless of race, gender, lifestyle, economic status, etc. All the bitching about what others should or shouldn't do just makes my head & my heart hurt. (This is a general vent, not aimed at any specific person. The Kardashian complaints I read on FB).
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ginacivey
Pearl Clutcher
refupea #2 in southeast missouri
Posts: 4,685
Jun 25, 2014 19:18:36 GMT
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Post by ginacivey on Aug 30, 2017 21:58:09 GMT
omg. make it stop now with the name calling and meanness. I'm not a fan of the guy but really? Isn't this a time to stop this petty shit? people here tend to go for the jugular whenever they can - as if catty is cute The only positive thing I ever see out of disasters like this are the strength of the American people working together regardless of race, gender, lifestyle, economic status, etc. All the bitching about what others should or shouldn't do just makes my head & my heart hurt. amen!
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Post by burningfeather on Aug 30, 2017 22:29:15 GMT
I certainly hope that every single person who is complaining about what someone else did or didn't do, is doing something themselves. Because otherwise you are just a hypocrite behind a keyboard, microphone, or media desk
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Post by compeateropeator on Aug 30, 2017 22:52:24 GMT
I certainly hope that every single person who is complaining about what someone else did or didn't do, is doing something themselves. Because otherwise you are just a hypocrite behind a keyboard, microphone, or media desk I agree with this statement. The reality is, however, there are some people/organizations who are in a much better position (financially and logistically) to offer needed assistance immediately and on a larger scale. You have to hope that those people whose life's mission is to teach/preach the lessons of love and charity (and who are smack dab in the middle of the disaster) prove that they are and do what they lecture. But I will take the hypocrite label if some feel that any comments that I made against Joel Osteen outweighs the meager donations that I have been able to make from across the country. I am still looking for other ways to help and will continue to do so.
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used2scrap
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,036
Jan 29, 2016 3:02:55 GMT
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Post by used2scrap on Aug 30, 2017 22:55:07 GMT
Doesn't a tax exempt church with a $70 million dollar budget have a greater obligation to help then the average person? Both morally and financially?
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Post by *KAS* on Aug 30, 2017 23:13:58 GMT
Doesn't a tax exempt church with a $70 million dollar budget have a greater obligation to help then the average person? Both morally and financially? 1. If it was *my* church, I would expect this if they want my weekly tithe. But I don't go to this church and haven't given a penny to that church or pastor so I don't have a say. Morally, yes, I agree. But you can't make somebody else act according to your moral code. 2. You have no idea what the church is doing, was working on behind the scenes, or plans to do in the future. Right?
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 19, 2024 20:26:33 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2017 23:26:02 GMT
Doesn't a tax exempt church with a $70 million dollar budget have a greater obligation to help then the average person? Both morally and financially? But in meeting that moral and financial obligation are they required to do it in a visible way that appeases those who are not part of their congregational support base? Just because they didn't (or haven't) opened their doors does not mean they have not or won't be providing financial aid. Do you think they are morally obligated to help in a visible way you or others approve? If their building, not matter how massive, doesn't have the facilities for bathroom/showering and kitchen that is required to be a viable shelter for the theoretical numbers that could stay there then it isn't really a place to shelter people. Remember the stories coming out of New Orleans after Katrina and the 30 thousand people that sheltered in the superdome without adequate facilities other than a place to sit down?
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used2scrap
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,036
Jan 29, 2016 3:02:55 GMT
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Post by used2scrap on Aug 31, 2017 0:35:31 GMT
Perhaps they did have non visible charitable giving behind the scenes; if they did I imagine they would have been actively engaged in them and highlighting them as Joel Osteen and his BIL made the damage control rounds on the many news shows they hit yesterday and today. And no matter what they do or don't have going on behind the scenes, it doesn't explain the misstatements about flooding. Yes I'm bit a Mende if their church, but maybe I've bought all his and his wife's books so I could still have a "valid" opinion?
Yes the Super Dome had awful conditions, but it still saved lives as a shelter of last resort. In the middle of a storm people need a roof, not a shower and kitchen.
Honestly it probably would have been a non story if the church had just done what they were going to do, but the persistent misstatements and defensive explanations are making them look really bad while lots of smaller churches, mosques, synagogues, businesses, and houses have welcomed people in no matter what the circumstances.
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Country Ham
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,313
Jun 25, 2014 19:32:08 GMT
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Post by Country Ham on Aug 31, 2017 3:39:12 GMT
I am not a fan of Olsteen but this crossed my feed today. link
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Post by 50offscrapper on Aug 31, 2017 6:53:56 GMT
Doesn't a tax exempt church with a $70 million dollar budget have a greater obligation to help then the average person? Both morally and financially? To whom much is given, much is required. Luke 12:48 That said, I haven't followed the info about what really/did or didn't happen with Lakewood. All I know is that we cannot force people to give or serve. We cannot control the actions of others. We can only make that choice for ourselves and nobody else. Therefore, I would like to encourage all of us to give as we are able. If you are looking for a good charity, please consider Convoyofhope.org. Don't forget to check if your company will match your donation.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 19, 2024 20:26:33 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2017 7:18:03 GMT
I read the capacity of that convention center is 5,000 and they currently have 8,800 people there. That's almost double. Besides, think about it - one shelter is not going to hold all of the displaced citizens. There is an enormous need for a dry, safe place for all these people to go. My church, located 2 1/2 hours north of the MS Gulf Coast, and 3 hours away from New Orleans, opened it's doors for Katrina evacuees. Shame on Joel Osteen. Total aside - I wonder how they come up with the capacity numbers for the shelters. We were at the George Brown convention center last April - it's huge and the capacity for "normal" operations is well beyond 5,000. I wonder if it's bathroom, food distribution, security - or most likely all of the above. I am only half way into this thread But I have experience with shelters. Prior to having children, I did A LOT of volunteering with the Red Cross as I hoped to parlay that to working with the ICRC someday. I went on to become Captain of all the Disaster Action Teams (main responsibility to assist families dealing with fires). But many of us were also trained for massive disaster training. One of my alternate hats was on the Shelter Team. When Katrina struck, that team went into action. The process has A LOT of moving parts, one being that there is a liaison (which was me) that works with a city's Disaster Team. This group is typically made up of the mayor, city manager, liaisons to State and Federal government representatives. There is SOOOOO much at play and going on behind the scenes when disasters strike. It is these groups of people that hunker down and decide what areas/ buildings are best to be designated as shelters. How is the site suitable for intake of victims? For example, the shelter we set up was an old Coliseum. They were bringing people straight from the airport that had literally been plucked out of the water or off rooftops and flown to Charlotte. These people had been exposed to potential toxic chemicals in flood waters, so they needed shower facilities prior to entering the shelter. We needed space to put out fresh, clean clothing for the victims once showering was done. We needed areas for people to sleep but also canteen areas. Separate areas for logging in victims to keep record of who is there and to put them in a database so that loved ones can find them when separated. Not to mention places to play for children, security from the press. So typically before these disasters ever happen, big cities probably have sites pre-selected to meet this criteria. I have my own opinions about mega-church pastors, but I just wanted to provide more in depth knowledge of what might be happening behind the scenes. To this day, I have heart warming and heartbreaking memories of working that shelter that I will forever carry with me. My heart bleeds for everyone in the path of Harvey.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 19, 2024 20:26:33 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2017 7:26:14 GMT
And let me add one key piece of information. Red Cross shelters are required to be non-denominational. It might be held in a church facility but we turned away churches wanting to deliver bibles. We did coordinate with churches that would provide transport TO churches for worship, but our utmost concern was for the care and comfort of the victims. With so many people of different walks of life, politics and religion take a backseat to basic survival!
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Post by compeateropeator on Aug 31, 2017 12:46:28 GMT
Total aside - I wonder how they come up with the capacity numbers for the shelters. We were at the George Brown convention center last April - it's huge and the capacity for "normal" operations is well beyond 5,000. I wonder if it's bathroom, food distribution, security - or most likely all of the above. I am only half way into this thread But I have experience with shelters. Prior to having children, I did A LOT of volunteering with the Red Cross as I hoped to parlay that to working with the ICRC someday. I went on to become Captain of all the Disaster Action Teams (main responsibility to assist families dealing with fires). But many of us were also trained for massive disaster training. One of my alternate hats was on the Shelter Team. When Katrina struck, that team went into action. The process has A LOT of moving parts, one being that there is a liaison (which was me) that works with a city's Disaster Team. This group is typically made up of the mayor, city manager, liaisons to State and Federal government representatives. There is SOOOOO much at play and going on behind the scenes when disasters strike. It is these groups of people that hunker down and decide what areas/ buildings are best to be designated as shelters. How is the site suitable for intake of victims? For example, the shelter we set up was an old Coliseum. They were bringing people straight from the airport that had literally been plucked out of the water or off rooftops and flown to Charlotte. These people had been exposed to potential toxic chemicals in flood waters, so they needed shower facilities prior to entering the shelter. We needed space to put out fresh, clean clothing for the victims once showering was done. We needed areas for people to sleep but also canteen areas. Separate areas for logging in victims to keep record of who is there and to put them in a database so that loved ones can find them when separated. Not to mention places to play for children, security from the press. So typically before these disasters ever happen, big cities probably have sites pre-selected to meet this criteria. I have my own opinions about mega-church pastors, but I just wanted to provide more in depth knowledge of what might be happening behind the scenes. To this day, I have heart warming and heartbreaking memories of working that shelter that I will forever carry with me. My heart bleeds for everyone in the path of Harvey. Thanks for the information. The logistics of setting of a large scale shelter is huge and there are so many places that things may go awry. My respect and heartfelt thanks goes out to everyone involved in providing the invaluable and life saving places for people displaced from their homes.
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Post by hop2 on Aug 31, 2017 13:06:44 GMT
This has been a thought provoking thread. Point I had not thought I'd have been mentioned. I appreciate the points of view so thank you
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pridemom
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,843
Jul 12, 2014 21:58:10 GMT
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Post by pridemom on Aug 31, 2017 13:11:02 GMT
Doesn't a tax exempt church with a $70 million dollar budget have a greater obligation to help then the average person? Both morally and financially? To whom much is given, much is required. Luke 12:48 That said, I haven't followed the info about what really/did or didn't happen with Lakewood. All I know is that we cannot force people to give or serve. We cannot control the actions of others. We can only make that choice for ourselves and nobody else. Therefore, I would like to encourage all of us to give as we are able. If you are looking for a good charity, please consider Convoyofhope.org. Don't forget to check if your company will match your donation. Convoy of Hope is where my giving goes in times like these. I went to college in Springfield with several members of the leadership team. It's an amazing organization. I was tempted to apply for an open position recently, but can't commute two hours.
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Post by monklady123 on Aug 31, 2017 13:17:15 GMT
I just saw this on Facebook re: Osteen's type of theology:
"The real issue w/ Osteen and those similar to him is not that he didn't open the church, the bigger issue is his theology that prevented him from being prepared and equipped to open Lakewood in the first place. When your theology only sees God through a epidermal motivational lens, your practice will line up with that..sit back pray and blessings will follow. However, when you see the essence of God as an active God whose concern is with the oppressed and disenfranchised, your practice of that lens will be much more proactive than reactive. Theology has legs, whether we want to believe it not."
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 19, 2024 20:26:33 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2017 13:20:58 GMT
Cut this guy a break, would you? Obviously his church was meant to be a TAX shelter, not a STORM shelter. Sheesh. Nice!
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 19, 2024 20:26:33 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2017 13:23:22 GMT
Doesn't a tax exempt church with a $70 million dollar budget have a greater obligation to help then the average person? Both morally and financially? Yep. A dollar to someone w/has accumulated wealth of $50,000 is not the same as the dollar from the Osteens whose accumulated PERSONAL wealth is estimated to be $50,000,000.
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Post by monklady123 on Aug 31, 2017 14:29:34 GMT
Doesn't a tax exempt church with a $70 million dollar budget have a greater obligation to help then the average person? Both morally and financially? Yep. A dollar to someone w/has accumulated wealth of $50,000 is not the same as the dollar from the Osteens whose accumulated PERSONAL wealth is estimated to be $50,000,000. Jesus did have something to say about that in fact.... Mark 12:41-44New International Version (NIV) The Widow’s Offering 41 Jesus sat down opposite the place where the offerings were put and watched the crowd putting their money into the temple treasury. Many rich people threw in large amounts. 42 But a poor widow came and put in two very small copper coins, worth only a few cents. 43 Calling his disciples to him, Jesus said, “Truly I tell you, this poor widow has put more into the treasury than all the others. 44 They all gave out of their wealth; but she, out of her poverty, put in everything—all she had to live on.”
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 19, 2024 20:26:33 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2017 14:32:34 GMT
Yep. A dollar to someone w/has accumulated wealth of $50,000 is not the same as the dollar from the Osteens whose accumulated PERSONAL wealth is estimated to be $50,000,000. Jesus did have something to say about that in fact.... Mark 12:41-44New International Version (NIV) The Widow’s Offering 41 Jesus sat down opposite the place where the offerings were put and watched the crowd putting their money into the temple treasury. Many rich people threw in large amounts. 42 But a poor widow came and put in two very small copper coins, worth only a few cents. 43 Calling his disciples to him, Jesus said, “Truly I tell you, this poor widow has put more into the treasury than all the others. 44 They all gave out of their wealth; but she, out of her poverty, put in everything—all she had to live on.” Exactly. Jesus knew about fractions and that it's the ratio that counts, not the numerator!. 1=1 but 1/50,000 <> 1/50,000,000.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 19, 2024 20:26:33 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2017 14:44:51 GMT
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