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Post by underwatermama on Aug 29, 2017 17:18:03 GMT
200,000 isn't a huge salary in the huge salary world. How did he amass his 40 million net worth? Books? Normal investments? I could use some advice. Yes he has a new book every year, which are given out free at churches, but obviously someone is buying them on Amazon. He does tours where he speaks in stadiums. However when a singer does that they are charging you *hundreds* of dollars for those seats and no one blinks an eye. I just checked my email and my ticket in 2011 for America's Night of Hope with Joel & Victoria Osteen was $15. I looked up his next one in LA is $18 for every single seat. There are other speakers there as well and he has to rent the venue, travel expenses, so I don't know how he profits? If he is giving away his books, then that makes me think that his church is buying the books for that to happen. Then he gets his cut of the book sales, probably directly to him. So basically, that means he is making money by having his church give the books away.
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Post by annabella on Aug 29, 2017 17:18:24 GMT
As such, the single-family home median price rose 4.4 percent year over year to an all-time high of $235,000, and the average price increased 4.3 percent to $302,362, the second-highest average ever. sourceJust finished the article, you shouldn't call someone else naive if you think a single-family home median price priced at $302K is expensive.
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Post by annabella on Aug 29, 2017 17:19:07 GMT
If he is giving away his books, then that makes me think that his church is buying the books for that to happen. Then he gets his cut of the book sales, probably directly to him. So basically, that means he is making money by having his church give the books away. Interesting!
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Olan
Pearl Clutcher
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Jul 13, 2014 21:23:27 GMT
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Post by Olan on Aug 29, 2017 17:19:12 GMT
If he told his followers donating 10% of their income wasn't obligatory according to the word of God would we even be having this discussion? I have .5 mustard seed and know what his obligation is trust me Joel knows too. Maybe I'm stupid, but I have no clue what you're talking about. Are you agreeing with me or disagreeing? Either way, I've always thought Joel Osteen was slimy, and I wouldn't follow him let alone give him a dime... I will clarify. From your response it seemed you thought Joel O. doesn't have an obligation to help those in need but as a man of God SHOULD offer help. I would argue because he is a man of God he does have an obligation to help. A biblical one. The same book he uses to ensure his followers know what their obligation is as far as tithes and offerings.
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Post by epeanymous on Aug 29, 2017 17:28:13 GMT
200,000 isn't a huge salary in the huge salary world. How did he amass his 40 million net worth? Books? Normal investments? I could use some advice. Yes he has a new book every year, which are given out free at churches, but obviously someone is buying them on Amazon. He does tours where he speaks in stadiums. However when a singer does that they are charging you *hundreds* of dollars for those seats and no one blinks an eye. I just checked my email and my ticket in 2011 for America's Night of Hope with Joel & Victoria Osteen was $15. I looked up his next one in LA is $18 for every single seat. There are other speakers there as well and he has to rent the venue, travel expenses, so I don't know how he profits? Just to be clear I'm not his biggest fan or anything of the sort, but I'm interested in having an open dialogue to understand the hate of him. I used to attend a church that did charity events but the pastor never came to any of them. His wife would show up and do a walk through. I got to know their daughter and she told me her father wasn't good at 1:1 speaking, he wasn't a people person which I found hilarious because that's what I had always experienced from pastors. She explained that's why he's not in the lobby after services greeting people. I believe they had a modest income and were nice, genuine people. So my point here is perhaps my pastor felt like his only job was to write the sermons, and lead the church in a vision which donated funds to other charities, but he had other staff to fulfill the other functions of church such as service. That aspect just wasn't his forte to do hands on. I don't know a great deal about any televangelist or megachurch pastor in particular, including Joel Osteen (although I've noted over the years that my friends who are deeply religious all seem to dislike him, FWIW). I do know that, every once in a while, I fall asleep with the TV on, and am woken up at 4AM by some televised pastor or other basically exhorting people to send in money until it hurts, almost like auctioneers. I think the general criticism of people in his position (again, I don't know much about him personally) is that they in various ways profit off of people whose financial means are fixed and/or limited, and that they use those profits to lead a life those people will never enjoy. Which, yes, capitalism, but it is the grafting of capitalism onto religion that I think people find distasteful at best and disgusting at worst.
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Post by darkangel090260 on Aug 29, 2017 17:30:22 GMT
If I can open my home to people in my area when it floods. I can hold 4-8people. He can open his church.
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Post by bc2ca on Aug 29, 2017 17:33:33 GMT
I read the capacity of that convention center is 5,000 and they currently have 8,800 people there. That's almost double. Besides, think about it - one shelter is not going to hold all of the displaced citizens. There is an enormous need for a dry, safe place for all these people to go. My church, located 2 1/2 hours north of the MS Gulf Coast, and 3 hours away from New Orleans, opened it's doors for Katrina evacuees. Shame on Joel Osteen. Total aside - I wonder how they come up with the capacity numbers for the shelters. We were at the George Brown convention center last April - it's huge and the capacity for "normal" operations is well beyond 5,000. I wonder if it's bathroom, food distribution, security - or most likely all of the above. I'm sure all of the above is factored in along with the space needed to set up cots. For a concert/event the facility can seat a certain number of people, but as a shelter they will calculate more square footage per person cutting down significantly the capacity of the facility. This came up on a quick google search on shelter planning and lists 40 square feet per person and 1 toilet for 40 people as requirements for facilities identified as primary shelter spots. SaveSave
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Post by Darcy Collins on Aug 29, 2017 17:55:21 GMT
Total aside - I wonder how they come up with the capacity numbers for the shelters. We were at the George Brown convention center last April - it's huge and the capacity for "normal" operations is well beyond 5,000. I wonder if it's bathroom, food distribution, security - or most likely all of the above. I'm sure all of the above is factored in along with the space needed to set up cots. For a concert/event the facility can seat a certain number of people, but as a shelter they will calculate more square footage per person cutting down significantly the capacity of the facility. This came up on a quick google search on shelter planning and lists 40 square feet per person and 1 toilet for 40 people as requirements for facilities identified as primary shelter spots. SaveSaveInteresting - Just the first floor with 40 sq ft per person would be 13,600 - that would leave the huge 3rd floor for operations - or an additional 5,575 people if you put them in the 3rd floor exhibition space and just used meeting rooms for operations. They advertise the first floor as a convention space for up to 36,000 - so you'd think that they'd have sufficient bathrooms. I'm guessing it has much to do with feeding logistics and security. I'm sure no one wants a repeat of too many people and not enough resources. You put 20,000 people in a single building and it brings a whole host of challenges.
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Deleted
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May 19, 2024 19:05:45 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2017 18:07:24 GMT
Prosperity gospel at the level practiced by these mega-church millionaire pastors is abhorrent to me and goes against everything I think of when I think of Jesus' obsession w/divesting oneself of wealth and spending one's time helping others in humility and compassion. But, hey, what does this atheist know?
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Post by pondrunner on Aug 29, 2017 18:07:34 GMT
I don't get why people care what size his house is? I had no idea he had another house in Pensacola so I googled it and found this forum discussing it with tons of hate. Joel is estimated to be worth $40 million, why would he live in a house the same size as you or me? Even with tithing and donating to charity (which we don't know how much he does), he still has a lot of money left so he has a right to spend it. He also can't be your next door neighbor because he needs security and has to live in a gated community. He works hard, many hours plus always traveling, he has a right to enjoy the fruits of his work. I will say that Houston has always stood out to me as a town where the average middle class person lives in large mansions that are much cheaper than elsewhere in the country. ETA just watched the hilarious video above which said Joel has $55 million which I read on another site as well. I think pastors whose wealth is in profound excess of the vast majority of people worldwide are at risk of a very serious spiritual problem. Jesus didn't have good things to say about wealth.
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used2scrap
Drama Llama
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Jan 29, 2016 3:02:55 GMT
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Post by used2scrap on Aug 29, 2017 18:25:24 GMT
Is it not literally conservative fiscal doctrine that there should be less government social safety nets and more provided by private companies and churches filling that role? After Hurricane Katrina shouldn't every town/city have existing plans in place for worst case scenario emergency shelters? Not just in hurricane and flood areas, there are also fires, tornadoes, earthquakes, mudslides etc.
Why wouldn't a wealthy church with such a large structure have a plan in place to fill that role?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2017 18:25:32 GMT
Obligation? No, but it's the right thing to do especially since he's made his millions by claiming to be a man of God. It's hypocritical. Actually, if you follow the Bible, it is obligatory. It is mentioned often enough that even Joel Osteen couldn't have missed it. Maybe he skipped over 1 John 3:17, for just one instance: But whoever has the world's goods, and sees his brother in need and closes his heart against him, how does the love of God abide in him? He's obviously missed Timothy 6: v7-9 that's for sure! For we brought nothing into the world, and we can take nothing out of it.
But if we have food and clothing, we will be content with that.
Those who want to get rich fall into temptation and a trap and into many foolish and harmful desires that plunge people into ruin and destruction.
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Post by hop2 on Aug 29, 2017 18:26:02 GMT
Prosperity gospel at the level practiced by these mega-church millionaire pastors is abhorrent to me and goes against everything I think of when I think of Jesus' obsession w/divesting oneself of wealth and spending one's time helping others in humility and compassion. But, hey, what does this atheist know? thats pretty much what my dad said when my Mother was sending money to Jim & Tammy Faye Baker back in the day. ( except for the atheist part ) Lol
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MizIndependent
Drama Llama
Quit your bullpoop.
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Jun 25, 2014 19:43:16 GMT
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Post by MizIndependent on Aug 29, 2017 18:30:14 GMT
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Post by dewryce on Aug 29, 2017 18:41:29 GMT
Is it not literally conservative fiscal doctrine that there should be less government social safety nets and more provided by private companies and churches filling that role? After Hurricane Katrina shouldn't every town/city have existing plans in place for worst case scenario emergency shelters? Not just in hurricane and flood areas, there are also fires, tornadoes, earthquakes, mudslides etc. Why wouldn't a wealthy church with such a large structure have a plan in place to fill that role?[\b]This is what is really bothering me. Giving the church the benefit of the doubt, that they physically can't provide what is needed for a true, we'll run shelter at this point in time...why the f not? Being situated on the Gulf Coast in such a huge city prone to flooding, surrounded by other towns in the same predicament, in a building that from the outside seems like it would be ideal...I just don't understand why not. Especially for a church.
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oh yvonne
Prolific Pea
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Post by oh yvonne on Aug 29, 2017 19:16:53 GMT
Okay so I just checked that link above to a report that showed the church WAS flooded..they showed the footage.
So all this was just false reporting and the church is open to victims. That's good news.
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used2scrap
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Post by used2scrap on Aug 29, 2017 19:27:53 GMT
Okay so I just checked that link above to a report that showed the church WAS flooded..they showed the footage. So all this was just false reporting and the church is open to victims. That's good news. Interesting, because the Fox article indicates there wasn't flooding. Glad they have the doors open now, as the shelters areboverfilking already. Pastor Joel Osteen opened his Lakewood Church in Houston to Harvey flooding evacuees on Tuesday, hours after receiving major backlash for closing the doors to his megachurch. "Victoria and I care deeply about our fellow Houstonians. Lakewood’s doors are open and we are receiving anyone who needs shelter," Osteen wrote on Twitter. But just the day before, the 16,800-seat church posted on Facebook that its doors were closed "due to severe flooding." Several social media posts indicated the church stayed clear of any flooding. "Sir, these pictures were taken of the campus and surrounding streets, this afternoon. Where's the flooding? Please stop making excuses," Twitter user Charles Clymer wrote. Lakewood associate pastor John Gray wrote in a since-deleted Instagram remark that that flooded highways made the church inaccessible. Osteen defended the church and said it was "never" closed and was serving as a relief supply distribution center, according to a statement. He added it would "house people once shelters reached capacity." More shelters became a dire need by Tuesday afternoon with more than 17,000 people seeking refuge from floodwaters, the American Red Cross said.
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Post by yivit on Aug 29, 2017 19:33:09 GMT
I know joel's wife, went to school with her. They are both the most two faced people I've every come across. She should have been chewing his ear off to get him to help her hometown area. Wait, she won't acknowledge where she came from. Funny thing is she probably puked in every bathroom stall of what is now their church when she was drunk at concerts there.
And annabella, coming here for a super bowl once isn't the same. Plus it's just flaunting your lifestyle yet again. And 300k or so may be median, but for LOTS of people here that's way expensive. You need to pull your head out of your ass before you talk again.
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Post by annabella on Aug 29, 2017 19:34:25 GMT
I heard a report that he opened the church at noon today and admitted 50 people for shelter. The lower level of the parking garage and adjacent rooms were flooded. No indication, whether the interior rooms were flooded.
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Post by annaintx on Aug 29, 2017 19:41:12 GMT
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RosieKat
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Post by RosieKat on Aug 29, 2017 20:37:06 GMT
What I saw reported that the parking garage and some associated structures had some flooding, but not the church proper. I can't stand these folks, but I will concede that logistics alone are massive - for all we know (although I doubt it), he could have offered the church and was told that it wasn't a good choice. They're slimy and sleazy, but we don't really *know* the story.
As an utterly irrelevant aside, I'm always convinced he's really Martin Short.
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Post by compeateropeator on Aug 29, 2017 21:01:33 GMT
I have to admit I had to look this up to make sure that it was a satire site...can you call me gullible. It did tickle my funny bone though.
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Post by Layce on Aug 29, 2017 21:11:54 GMT
Well, you never know, Rosie, it could be. I mean, have you ever seen the two of them together? Don't know much about Joel Osteen. However, his apparent wealth health and prosperity doctrine.. it's not sitting well with me either. Layce
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Post by deekaye on Aug 29, 2017 22:09:53 GMT
I'll put this out there that I am a Christian. I'll also state that I can't stand Joel Osteen. I think he should open his church doors to those who need help. If he's concerned about stuff I'm sure that church has a security staff. Wouldn't it be a great way to show Christ's love to his fellow man by helping? Absolutely this
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2017 0:21:46 GMT
Praying. It's the least Osteen can do. Literally.
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AnotherPea
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by AnotherPea on Aug 30, 2017 1:10:15 GMT
I don't remember all of the details but I do remember this being a big deal when my former city faced a natural disaster. The Red Cross simply was not a good thing. They had so many rules and stipulations that the shelters had to refuse their "services." They have good PR though. You think the Red Cross is not good because they have stipulations on their shelters? For human safety the Red Cross does have regulations when setting up their shelters. The Red Cross also has shelter agreements in place. They are not allowed to just set up a shelter randomly. Locations are vetted on an ongoing basis. Why would they set up at that mega church when there is a plan in place to set up a shelter nearby. When you hear on the news that a shelter has been set up in a particular location - that location most likely was agreed upon years in advance. I can't recall the measurement - but for instance, cots need to have certain spacing between them. There has to be a safe way to feed people. My brain is not awake and cannot think of all the shelter set up rules. An unsafe shelter can be very dangerous. Is the Red Cross perfect - heck no but they do a great job at what they do. Sleeves up. Hearts open. All in. No, that's not what I meant. It was things like no one from the facility's staff could be there while it was being used as a shelter. If something went wrong with the building, like a leak, ,the RC was to make any decisions regarding repair or lack thereof, without having to notify staff. That it became THEIRS for the duration and they would not defer or refer to staff/owners, whatever. In the case of a church and a school, they insisted that they had keys to all rooms, including the front offices, and that all doors could be unlocked for the duration. That also included the food storage rooms for both. Even though there was an excess of donated food, the storage rooms were stripped because of random people walking in and taking what they wanted. The RC also lied about pets being at the church. The church said they couldn't allow pets, even if crated, the RC said another shelter was taking pets and their owners and then turned around and accepted them anyway. Even though the other shelter had plenty of room. The damage and theft were bad, but the insistence of being the only ones of authority was worse. It took weeks to clean up the mess left behind (not just trash, but moved/misplaced furniture, filing cabinets that had been looked through, school supplies that had been ruined) , some of which was done in rooms reserved for the RC volunteers.
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Post by katieanna on Aug 30, 2017 2:58:59 GMT
Joel Osteen could learn a few things from Mattress Mac.[/quote] Yes, it sure sounds like it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2017 3:37:47 GMT
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Post by jenn on Aug 30, 2017 5:30:50 GMT
Praying. It's the least Osteen can do. Literally. And this is why I can't stand the man and my ex husband. The $$ sent for prayers over the last ten years and how little given to his own son. One should not have to pray for prayers.
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used2scrap
Drama Llama
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Jan 29, 2016 3:02:55 GMT
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Post by used2scrap on Aug 30, 2017 12:29:45 GMT
From his own interview, it seems the reports of flooding aren't quite true.
you can’t necessarily open your building when it’s very close to flooding itself," Osteen said.
We were blessed to not have flooding here but we’re also very precautious about... before we put a bunch of people in here, let’s make sure that everything is safe," Osteen said.
They are certainly doing a lot of PR damage control, hopefully people are also getting some desperately needed assistance from this church as well.
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