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Post by Darcy Collins on Aug 29, 2017 15:12:27 GMT
I don't know Joel Osteen nor any specific details about his church's feasibility as a shelter. I do hope the people of Houston are spared the disaster of large buildings being opened without the necessary infrastructure to ensure their safety and critical supplies. This is a valid concern. I'm sure the Osteens have it in their means, however, to coordinate with government or charitable entities that DO know how to safely run a shelter, and simply need an accessible building with water, bathrooms, kitchen, etc. They are a large organization and certainly have business and publicity folks who have the necessary contacts. Absolutely - the need for safe dry places is not even close to over yet.
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basketdiva
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Post by basketdiva on Aug 29, 2017 15:12:49 GMT
I saw some pictures posted of the interior of the church underwater. Are they fake?
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zookeeper
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Post by zookeeper on Aug 29, 2017 15:14:44 GMT
I'm a Christian and I'll bash Osteen in a heartbeat because I despise his Prosperity Gospel. I think it's a horrible damaging un-Christian theology. Preach!!!
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Post by auntkelly on Aug 29, 2017 15:23:00 GMT
One thing to remember about churches, temples, mosques and other local charitable organizations is that they are often working behind the scenes with the big relief organizations such as Red Cross in the immediate aftermath of a disaster.
The local organizations are going to be around handing out sacks of groceries and $20 gas cards long after the big relief organizations have left.
I'm not a fan of Joel Osteen and I know nothing about what his church is or isn't doing to help. I'm talking about churches and other local charitable organizations in general. Sometimes it looks like they are not doing a lot in the immediate aftermath of a huge disaster, but in reality they are working behind the scenes and preparing for the long, long months ahead.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2017 15:37:31 GMT
As I said in the other thread, disasters bring out the best in good people. I've seen countless reports of people housing others, people risking their lives to save others. Joel has his $10MM mansion and his giant megachurch, for all the good it does (which IMO is little). Do others live in mansions? Yes. Do they do it off the backs of donations from the gullible and while telling others how to be Godly? Joel's house From here: genemcvay.wordpress.com/tag/joel-osteen/
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used2scrap
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Post by used2scrap on Aug 29, 2017 15:41:37 GMT
Open as a shelter or not, I'm sure a church organization as large and wealthy as theirs has massive outreach programs that will aid the community and the displaced in the weeks, months, and years ahead. Right? Meanwhile Fox News is letting everyone know that some church staff members have been rescued and the Olsteens are high and dry, just without power.
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Post by annabella on Aug 29, 2017 15:43:02 GMT
How do we know that Joel's mansion hasn't been flooded? Or at least the streets in his neighborhood? He could be without power as well.
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NoWomanNoCry
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Post by NoWomanNoCry on Aug 29, 2017 15:48:48 GMT
This doesn't surprise me at all. If I was a church goer especially for this "mega church🙄" I would be ashamed to be apart of it, but hey..WWJD ya know.
It's ironic that the churches that are actually getting involved are the ones that are tiny and have hardly any financial resources.
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Aug 29, 2017 15:50:01 GMT
He has said that he would accept victims of Harvey once all other places have reached capacity. They've also set up a separate Harvey fund on their website. Last weeks tithes and offerings are already earmarked for something else I guess. The building used to house a professional sports team if the Red Cross require churches have training and preparedness before a storm in order to be an official location they should have taken the necessary steps to ensure their "blessing" from God could bless others.
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used2scrap
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Post by used2scrap on Aug 29, 2017 15:50:43 GMT
How do we know that Joel's mansion hasn't been flooded? Or at least the streets in his neighborhood? He could be without power as well. From Fox News At least three staff members at Pastor Joel Osteen's Lakewood Church in Houston, Texas, had to be rescued from their homes while several others experienced flooding due to the impact of Hurricane Harvey. "I know of about three staff members that have needed to be rescued. There may be more but I happen to know of about three of them that literally had to be pulled out of high water," Lakewood spokesperson Don Iloff, Osteen's brother-in-law, told The Christian Post on Monday. While many flood rescue crews have traveled to southeast Texas from other states to aid in saving victims from a storm that has turned roads into rivers and already claimed lives, Iloff told CP that in many cases, neighbors are rescuing neighbors. "You know what is interesting is that a lot of the rescuing that is going on in this city is not just rescue crews, it's just people rescuing other people," he stated. "Everybody that has got a boat has put a boat in the water in this city." As for Osteen and his wife, Victoria, Iloff told CP that the Osteen family is safe but without power. "I haven't talked to them in two days. I know someone made it over there and said everybody is OK. They are on pretty high ground," Iloff explained. "If you are not flooded, you are surrounded by water in this city. If you are not flooded, you now have waterfront property. " Some on social media have criticized Osteen and Lakewood for announcing that they had canceled Sunday's services because of the hurricane, suggesting that the church is closed to those who need to access the massive arena for shelter.
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Post by epeanymous on Aug 29, 2017 15:50:53 GMT
This doesn't surprise me at all. If I was a church goer especially for this "mega church🙄" I would be ashamed to be apart of it, but hey..WWJD ya know. It's ironic that the churches that are actually getting involved are the ones that are tiny and have hardly any financial resources. Before this, one of the things trending on my social media was a pastor from a small church who literally was out in a boat rescuing people.
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NoWomanNoCry
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Post by NoWomanNoCry on Aug 29, 2017 15:55:57 GMT
Just wondering... how many posters on here would have commented/posted/created a thread praising a mega church for opening as a shelter? It would have been its own thread? Surely, a great kindness would have received as much air time as a perceived slight, no? Definitely more attention than a pseudo-celebrity in a custom-made dress from a cheap-ass clothing store? Would the praise be as free-flowing as the hate? Curious because there seems to be a lot of people on this board that will bash Christians in a heartbeat. FTR, I'm not a fan of mega churches at all or pastors that run churches like corporations. I do think there are a lot of things to consider and it is probably much easier to open a mattress store as a shelter than a huge church. I would have commented with gratitude for ANY and ALL organizations that are willing to help out. Christian/Non Christian has zero to do with it. SETX needs any and all help.
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used2scrap
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Post by used2scrap on Aug 29, 2017 15:56:06 GMT
From another article:
"Lakewood is receiving people who need shelter. We are also receiving supplies such as baby food, baby formula and other shelter needs," a message reads on the church's Twitter account.
Accepting donations from others is great. Spending some of the churches vast wealth on aiding those who need it would sure be better.
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blue tulip
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Post by blue tulip on Aug 29, 2017 16:06:24 GMT
As I said in the other thread, disasters bring out the best in good people. I've seen countless reports of people housing others, people risking their lives to save others. Joel has his $10MM mansion and his giant megachurch, for all the good it does (which IMO is little). Do others live in mansions? Yes. Do they do it off the backs of donations from the gullible and while telling others how to be Godly? Joel's house From here: genemcvay.wordpress.com/tag/joel-osteen/that's not even his Houston home. it's his Pensacola one. the Houston one is massive as well, of course. ETA oops, had it backwards, this is his Houston home. point being still, the guy has multiple massive homes. pretty good gig to be a mega-church pastor.
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Post by **GypsyGirl** on Aug 29, 2017 16:18:28 GMT
Joel has his $10MM mansion and his giant megachurch, for all the good it does (which IMO is little). The good pastor has been blessed. That home has been appraised at $12,191,454 this year. That's just his River Oaks home. With a mere 17,309 sq. feet, surely he could manage to find room to house a few evacuees there if the Church of Joel (as I like to refer to the former Compaq center that is emblazoned with his name) can't be opened. Things have come a long way from the humble parsonage many pastors used to live in.
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MizIndependent
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Post by MizIndependent on Aug 29, 2017 16:23:12 GMT
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Post by thundergal on Aug 29, 2017 16:32:54 GMT
"I know of about three staff members that have needed to be rescued. There may be more but I happen to know of about three of them that literally had to be pulled out of high water," Lakewood spokesperson Don Iloff, Osteen's brother-in-law, told The Christian Post on Monday. "About three"!? That cracks me up!
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scorpeao
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Post by scorpeao on Aug 29, 2017 16:34:43 GMT
Obligation? No, but it's the right thing to do especially since he's made his millions by claiming to be a man of God. It's hypocritical.
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Post by Prenticekid on Aug 29, 2017 16:48:51 GMT
Obligation? No, but it's the right thing to do especially since he's made his millions by claiming to be a man of God. It's hypocritical. Actually, if you follow the Bible, it is obligatory. It is mentioned often enough that even Joel Osteen couldn't have missed it. Maybe he skipped over 1 John 3:17, for just one instance: But whoever has the world's goods, and sees his brother in need and closes his heart against him, how does the love of God abide in him?
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Post by annabella on Aug 29, 2017 16:50:29 GMT
I don't get why people care what size his house is? I had no idea he had another house in Pensacola so I googled it and found this forum discussing it with tons of hate. Joel is estimated to be worth $40 million, why would he live in a house the same size as you or me? Even with tithing and donating to charity (which we don't know how much he does), he still has a lot of money left so he has a right to spend it. He also can't be your next door neighbor because he needs security and has to live in a gated community. He works hard, many hours plus always traveling, he has a right to enjoy the fruits of his work. I will say that Houston has always stood out to me as a town where the average middle class person lives in large mansions that are much cheaper than elsewhere in the country. ETA just watched the hilarious video above which said Joel has $55 million which I read on another site as well.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Aug 29, 2017 16:55:20 GMT
It would also be nice if the Vatican unloaded some of it's wealth ($10-15 billion) to help others....(and I'm catholic). Who says they're not?
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compeateropeator
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Post by compeateropeator on Aug 29, 2017 17:00:35 GMT
I don't get why people care what size his house is? I had no idea he had another house in Pensacola so I googled it and found this forum discussing it with tons of hate. Joel is estimated to be worth $40 million, why would he live in a house the same size as you or me? Even with tithing and donating to charity (which we don't know how much he does), he still has a lot of money left so he has a right to spend it. He also can't be your next door neighbor because he needs security and has to live in a gated community. He works hard, many hours plus always traveling, he has a right to enjoy the fruits of his work. I will say that Houston has always stood out to me as a town where the average middle class person lives in large mansions that are much cheaper than elsewhere in the country. 200,000 isn't a huge salary in the huge salary world. How did he amass his 40 million net worth? Books? Normal investments? I could use some advice.
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Post by **GypsyGirl** on Aug 29, 2017 17:03:05 GMT
I will say that Houston has always stood out to me as a town where the average middle class person lives in large mansions that are much cheaper than elsewhere in the country. From that comment I am going to assume you have never set foot in Houston. While property costs are less expensive than in other major cities, I can assure you the "average middle class person" is not living in large mansions. For someone who is as well traveled as your are, sometimes your naivete amazes me. source
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Aug 29, 2017 17:05:45 GMT
Obligation? No, but it's the right thing to do especially since he's made his millions by claiming to be a man of God. It's hypocritical. If he told his followers donating 10% of their income wasn't obligatory according to the word of God would we even be having this discussion? I have .5 mustard seed and know what his obligation is trust me Joel knows too.
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Post by papersilly on Aug 29, 2017 17:07:07 GMT
if for no one else, at least his parishioners and staff.
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Post by Darcy Collins on Aug 29, 2017 17:09:01 GMT
I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt and assume they are helping in other ways, especially since the convention center down the road was set up as a shelter. Maybe there wasn't the need for more shelter space. I read the capacity of that convention center is 5,000 and they currently have 8,800 people there. That's almost double. Besides, think about it - one shelter is not going to hold all of the displaced citizens. There is an enormous need for a dry, safe place for all these people to go. My church, located 2 1/2 hours north of the MS Gulf Coast, and 3 hours away from New Orleans, opened it's doors for Katrina evacuees. Shame on Joel Osteen. Total aside - I wonder how they come up with the capacity numbers for the shelters. We were at the George Brown convention center last April - it's huge and the capacity for "normal" operations is well beyond 5,000. I wonder if it's bathroom, food distribution, security - or most likely all of the above.
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scorpeao
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Post by scorpeao on Aug 29, 2017 17:11:10 GMT
Obligation? No, but it's the right thing to do especially since he's made his millions by claiming to be a man of God. It's hypocritical. If he told his followers donating 10% of their income wasn't obligatory according to the word of God would we even be having this discussion? I have .5 mustard seed and know what his obligation is trust me Joel knows too. Maybe I'm stupid, but I have no clue what you're talking about. Are you agreeing with me or disagreeing? Either way, I've always thought Joel Osteen was slimy, and I wouldn't follow him let alone give him a dime...
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Post by annabella on Aug 29, 2017 17:12:48 GMT
200,000 isn't a huge salary in the huge salary world. How did he amass his 40 million net worth? Books? Normal investments? I could use some advice. Yes he has a new book every year, which are given out free at churches, but obviously someone is buying them on Amazon. He does tours where he speaks in stadiums. However when a singer does that they are charging you *hundreds* of dollars for those seats and no one blinks an eye. I just checked my email and my ticket in 2011 for America's Night of Hope with Joel & Victoria Osteen was $15. I looked up his next one in LA is $18 for every single seat. There are other speakers there as well and he has to rent the venue, travel expenses, so I don't know how he profits? Just to be clear I'm not his biggest fan or anything of the sort, but I'm interested in having an open dialogue to understand the hate of him. I used to attend a church that did charity events but the pastor never came to any of them. His wife would show up and do a walk through. I got to know their daughter and she told me her father wasn't good at 1:1 speaking, he wasn't a people person which I found hilarious because that's what I had always experienced from pastors. She explained that's why he's not in the lobby after services greeting people. I believe they had a modest income and were nice, genuine people. So my point here is perhaps my pastor felt like his only job was to write the sermons, and lead the church in a vision which donated funds to other charities, but he had other staff to fulfill the other functions of church such as service. That aspect just wasn't his forte to do hands on.
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Post by annabella on Aug 29, 2017 17:13:26 GMT
From that comment I am going to assume you have never set foot in Houston. While property costs are less expensive than in other major cities, I can assure you the "average middle class person" is not living in large mansions. For someone who is as well traveled as your are, sometimes your naivete amazes me. Yes I went to Houston for a Superbowl weekend once.
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Post by Darcy Collins on Aug 29, 2017 17:13:55 GMT
I don't get why people care what size his house is? I had no idea he had another house in Pensacola so I googled it and found this forum discussing it with tons of hate. Joel is estimated to be worth $40 million, why would he live in a house the same size as you or me? Even with tithing and donating to charity (which we don't know how much he does), he still has a lot of money left so he has a right to spend it. He also can't be your next door neighbor because he needs security and has to live in a gated community. He works hard, many hours plus always traveling, he has a right to enjoy the fruits of his work. I will say that Houston has always stood out to me as a town where the average middle class person lives in large mansions that are much cheaper than elsewhere in the country. 200,000 isn't a huge salary in the huge salary world. How did he amass his 40 million net worth? Books? Normal investments? I could use some advice. Google tells me books - at least two were NYT best sellers. As I said earlier, I wasn't familiar with him before this thread.
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