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Post by PeachStatePea on Mar 15, 2018 2:32:16 GMT
Also, the Snopes link upthread does not link to the comments HRC made in India on Saturday, it's something else from last year. I searched Snopes but they have no posts refuting her latest remarks.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2018 2:41:51 GMT
Also, the Snopes link upthread does not link to the comments HRC made in India on Saturday, it's something else from last year. I searched Snopes but they have no posts refuting her latest remarks. It's at the end of the same Snopes article. Did you not read all of it? |
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Post by megop on Mar 15, 2018 2:43:29 GMT
I get your point, but bear with me. This would hold true for most any statement made by any politician no? SOME people are responsible gun owners. SOME people are racist. SOME illegal immigrants have criminal records. To me either we are going to hold politicians responsible for offensive language, or we aren't. Am I missing something? Truly asking here. I would hold everyone responsible for offensive language and there's no one more offensive with his use of language than Trump IMO. I'm not sure what you mean with the comparison of offensive language to what HC said though. It's quite true that some women are observant to the male of the household, that isn't offensive IMO, it's a statement of truth. Fair enough. IMO, her statement is offensive. As offensive as the others I listed. Matter of opinion I suppose. ETA: Trump offends me almost daily by the way. And personally, linking the server deal and Comey to married white females following male influence just adds to the offense. |
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lizacreates
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Post by lizacreates on Mar 15, 2018 2:47:26 GMT
WHAT!! You can tell what PEOPLE are voted for or just the party? In NJ you have to declare to vote in the primary, Dem or Rep... That stays with your name unless you change it between elections. You can vote for whomever/whatever party in the general elections. I have never heard of putting name on ballots ever! Certainly not possible with machines and over the years if I am there with other people we deliberately go out of order. I’m looking for the website where I discovered this (back in November 2016) when I saw it, I was like WTF?!?!! Had a whole list of my neighborhood and who they voted for in the Internet! I don’t remember what I was searching for that got me there. I know that the county voter records show maps of your home, what elections you voted in and what party affiliation you chose. I’m only guessing here, but are you thinking about the letters that were sent out years ago that say something like “Here are your neighbors and who they voted for. Go out and Vote.” And they actually had your neighbors’ names. Something like that? I recall that was very controversial (obviously) so, perhaps they made it on the Internet? |
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Post by gale w on Mar 15, 2018 2:49:55 GMT
In our rural area, voting can be done privately. In most places there's not an actual booth, but the voting machine has sides that prevent anyone from seeing your vote unless they're standing right behind you.
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Post by Scrapper100 on Mar 15, 2018 2:52:33 GMT
I find this appalling that there is no privacy while voting. This is how it is in my area, as well. Now I vote absentee. Wow I can't imagine we have always had privacy here. I also wouldn't vote for someone just because my church, spouse or job told me to. I know I was told I should vote a certain way at my job but I voted my conscience. While I respect my husband he doesn't tell me how to vote. We may talk about the different candidates but we have our own opinion and vote accordingly. I don't think I know anyone that would vote the way someone else told them to but we also have privacy so there is no way anyone else would know who you voted for. I think that not having privacy is just wrong and leads to intimidation if others know who you vote for and your job or church is trying to influence you. |
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Post by Scrapper100 on Mar 15, 2018 2:54:01 GMT
I’m looking for the website where I discovered this (back in November 2016) when I saw it, I was like WTF?!?!! Had a whole list of my neighborhood and who they voted for in the Internet! I don’t remember what I was searching for that got me there. I know that the county voter records show maps of your home, what elections you voted in and what party affiliation you chose. I’m only guessing here, but are you thinking about the letters that were sent out years ago that say something like “Here are your neighbors and who they voted for. Go out and Vote.” And they actually had your neighbors’ names. Something like that? I recall that was very controversial (obviously) so, perhaps they made it on the Internet? But not everyone votes totally along party lines I have voted against them several times. |
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Post by cadoodlebug on Mar 15, 2018 2:55:36 GMT
"All of a sudden, white women who were going to vote for me and frankly standing up to the men in their lives and the men in their workplaces, were being told “She’s going to jail, you don’t want to vote for her. That’d be terrible, you can’t vote for that.”
I don't know anyone who ever thought she'd go to jail. For some reason the Clintons are teflon-coated.
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Post by Scrapper100 on Mar 15, 2018 2:57:51 GMT
I could be wrong but I think a lot of women would vote for not only a woman, but a black woman, if given the right candidate. I would support Condoleezza Rice in a heartbeat if she became a candidate. JMHO of course. I totally agree if a woman ran that I agreed with and I thought would do a good job I would vote for her in a heartbeat and race wouldn't matter at all. I vote for the persons politics not gender or race. I would love to be able to vote for someone that I really thought would do a good job vs just the lesser of two evils for a change. |
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Post by megop on Mar 15, 2018 2:59:06 GMT
I’m only guessing here, but are you thinking about the letters that were sent out years ago that say something like “Here are your neighbors and who they voted for. Go out and Vote.” And they actually had your neighbors’ names. Something like that? I recall that was very controversial (obviously) so, perhaps they made it on the Internet? But not everyone votes totally along party lines I have voted against them several times. Here, too. Actually, I've never, ever, voted a straight party line ticket. |
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Post by megop on Mar 15, 2018 3:01:57 GMT
I’m looking for the website where I discovered this (back in November 2016) when I saw it, I was like WTF?!?!! Had a whole list of my neighborhood and who they voted for in the Internet! I don’t remember what I was searching for that got me there. I know that the county voter records show maps of your home, what elections you voted in and what party affiliation you chose. I’m only guessing here, but are you thinking about the letters that were sent out years ago that say something like “Here are your neighbors and who they voted for. Go out and Vote.” And they actually had your neighbors’ names. Something like that? I recall that was very controversial (obviously) so, perhaps they made it on the Internet? What you came across is sham most likely. Demographics to ident a "propensity" of voting. There are apps out there that try to do the same. THEY DO NOT have who you voted for, but use census and other demographic data to predict how they think you would most likely vote. |
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Post by megop on Mar 15, 2018 3:04:27 GMT
Let me repeat, who exactly you voted for is private. But just as you receive direct mail or a facebook ad that targets you based on behavior and other activities, campaigns are using the same sort of thing.
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Mar 15, 2018 3:15:00 GMT
As I said earlier, your party affiliation is available, Dem, Rep or independent, and you can change that. And yes when you voted.
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Post by megop on Mar 15, 2018 3:18:25 GMT
Which is quite different than knowing exactly who you voted for. Even in states with party ident, nothing stops anyone from identifying if formal, or asking if informal for the opposing party ballot in a primary.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2018 4:07:05 GMT
In this thread, we don't mock people for bringing up Obama, Clinton, or any other past politician, especially when they are on the public circuit still trying to make themselves relevant. In fact, a few topics ago, we were told by a liberal defending another liberal in this very thread that, and I quote: If you would be offended or startled if Obama or a liberal said the same thing or if you thought it was plausible for Obama or Clinton or whatever boogyman you put in the blank, then it is certainly possible for Trump. This blindness to our own biases is what is creating more of a chasm and less ability to find common ground. I quoted and applauded it myself at the time because it validated what conservatives here had been saying forever -- it is relevant and sometimes necessary to bring up past politicians. It is not necessary or welcome to tell people they shouldn't do it. Exactly. The whole objection to the relevance of bringing up another politician lost its credibility waaaay back during the campaign. The entire point of the campaign is to judge and compare candidates, so during discussion you bring up another politician and they object that they aren't relevant, (there's no way in hell judging and comparing candidates is not relevant during a campaign) so it's brutally crystal clear that the entire point of objecting to it is to shut up opposing opinion. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2018 4:16:45 GMT
There was an article in our very left-leaning newspaper this morning saying this exact thing. And I've heard a few left-leaning people talking about this on TV and they don't know what HRC is thinking when she says this stuff. ETA: Just because she's promoting her book doesn't mean she has to say stuff that validates the people who didn't think she should win in the first place. She continues to come across as a bitter woman who is searching to blame ANYONE BUT HERSELF. Is she a bitter woman or is she just telling the truth and some don’t like hearing it? Maybe instead of outright dismissing what Hillary is saying as the ramblings of a bitter woman one should step back and do a little honest pondering about what she is saying. Couldn’t hurt and one might be surprised with the conclusion they come to. I think if people did this with even just half the shit they bitch about trump for and if they're honest, they'd ALSO be surprised with the conclusions they come to. When you have snopes, Harvard, the NY Times, etc. saying that the media is too often misrepresenting the story and people involved in false stories involving trump coming out and correcting the misinformation, then you HAVE to do what you are suggesting if you want to honestly evaluate what you're reading. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2018 4:25:13 GMT
Couldn't we make the same comparisons with unions voting for democrats? I'm sure there are many men who spout the union *way* of voting to their wives. Maybe it's different in other states but CA is pretty much run by the unions and democrats. Still thinking about this. Why can't women choose who to vote for? Why - either Evangelical or union - does a man need to tell them what to think? I don't have a lot of union experience. My husband's union and my husband himself are not anything at all like you are describing. The danger with Evangelical power over a wife is that it viewed as coming from God, and to disobey or question is a sin. I don't get that same sense from unions, even if they are powerful as influencers. Your immortal soul isn't in danger if you buck the union, so it feels different. I have yet to read an Evangelical pastor/preacher/theologian who doesn't adhere to complementarianism. This viewpoint means that women cannot stand up. In my opinion, it ties into the #metoo in churches, the abuse of power, and the extremes of Christianity where God's word is used as a bludgeon to force others to do the wielder's will. I know all Christianity has its abuses, and I've belonged to several denominations. I've never been told my place by a church in the same way as I was in an Evangelical setting, and to question it meant questioning God (in their view). I think the same thing can be said about the supporting women's movement. When Michell Obama comes out and says if you don't vote for Hillary, you don't support women, then you have wonder how that logic applied when it was her husband running against Hillary. The logic says either Michelle didn't support her husband or she doesn't support women. It's then that it becomes crystal clear that it's just a way to control others, or as you put it, "used as a bludgeon to force others to do the wielder's will". |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2018 4:33:18 GMT
(Ok, but don’t anybody blame for me for derailing, lol.) “I won the places that represent two-thirds of America’s gross domestic product. So, I won the places that are optimistic, diverse, dynamic, moving forward. And his [Trump] whole campaign, “Make America Great Again,” was looking backwards - you didn’t like black people getting rights, you don’t like women getting jobs, you don’t want to see that Indian-American succeeding more than you are, whatever your problem is, I’m going to solve it.”
Really?! I don’t know who wrote this speech/interview answers, but it's a fail, in my opinion. First of all, this country is not just made up of Silicon Valley titans, Hollywood elites, and coastal millionaires. In fact, over one-third of this country is working-class. I don’t care how much you dislike them in private, but you don’t go out in public and disrespect them all over again. One of the reasons she lost that vital voting bloc is because of this arrogance. Yes, I said it – it’s arrogant. I really don’t know if the memories of her failures in Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin are so deep in the recesses of her mind that she had forgotten how crucial those three states were to her defeat. To even say things like this in India, where the working class is a huge portion of the population, is just remarkably vapid. Bill Clinton, for all his faults, never thought of the working class as expendable. He connected with them. Empathized with them. Listened to them. Obama had the same skills. Same for Reagan. Same for Carter. Bill told her time and time again that she needed to talk to the working class that has, historically, supported the Democratic Party. He knew how important they are. She and her campaign ignored his suggestions. I don’t know about anybody else on this board, but if I had a husband who managed to get elected twice IN SPITE of scandals, you better believe I’m taking his advice. Secondly, don’t imply that those who went for Trump are backwards. I don’t care what anyone really thinks of them because everyone has his/her own opinion, but if you’re a public figure as she is, you just do not do that. It reinforces the misguided notion that it is only the elites of this country who care about the country’s progress and are the only ones who matter. I have Republican friends and colleagues whose priorities happen to be different than mine, and yes, they voted for Trump. It does not mean that they’re backwards. It does not mean they are indifferent to equality. And it certainly doesn’t mean they are racists. I know this post will probably irk a lot of Liberals, but as far as I'm concerned, when you're a public figure you need to be held responsible for your words. Regardless of whether her entire speech/interview in India was well-received or not, the repercussions of these words she uttered only succeed in further dividing an already severely divided country. And heaven knows, we don’t need any more of that! Very well said. And as a side bar, I don't believe for a second that's derailing the thread. I think it's a natural progression of the discussion. MOST of the time, objections to the natural progression of the discussion and the pile ons that follow are what derail the thread. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2018 4:40:25 GMT
I could be wrong but I think a lot of women would vote for not only a woman, but a black woman, if given the right candidate. I would support Condoleezza Rice in a heartbeat if she became a candidate. JMHO of course. Exactly! I'm so sick of the racist label and the misogonyst label being slapped on people who don't think and vote the way someone thinks is the only way to think or vote. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2018 4:44:31 GMT
Very well said. And as a side bar, I don't believe for a second that's derailing the thread. I think it's a natural progression of the discussion. MOST of the time, objections to the natural progression of the discussion and the pile ons that follow are what derail the thread. I didn't write it because I thought it was disgusting--even more so what she said about women--but since I'm a woman, I focused on that part! |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2018 4:46:08 GMT
I could be wrong but I think a lot of women would vote for not only a woman, but a black woman, if given the right candidate. I would support Condoleezza Rice in a heartbeat if she became a candidate. JMHO of course. Exactly! I'm so sick of the racist label and the misogonyst label being slapped on people who don't think and vote the way someone thinks is the only way to think or vote. YES! I'd vote for Condi any day. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2018 5:09:26 GMT
Also, the Snopes link upthread does not link to the comments HRC made in India on Saturday, it's something else from last year. I searched Snopes but they have no posts refuting her latest remarks. It's at the end of the same Snopes article. Did you not read all of it? The woman is constantly making excuses for people not voting for her. It couldn't possibly be that they didn't want to vote for her.  Not possible. Someone made them vote against her. She constantly sounds a lot like Trump who was always talking about the size of his innauguration and rallies. I would think, if that annoys you about Trump, it ought to annoy you about Hillary. |
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cycworker
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Post by cycworker on Mar 15, 2018 7:36:35 GMT
I have stayed away from this thread because I'm not a conservative (though fwiw I'm not as progressive as some Canadians would like me to be. Here, I'm labelled a moderate/centrist). I want to say though that I'm glad Behar apologized. Ultimately I blame Omarosa for her misrepresentation of Pence's faith. I don't know if she misrepresented it on purpose, or she just doesn't get it. I'm a Christian. I pray and talk God regularly. Or at least I try to do so regularly. When I get an answer, I, like most Christians, don't hear it in the literal sense of hearing something... it's not like hearing a song on the radio or hearing the sound of the phone ringing. It's a figurative hearing. It's just this moment of overwhelming peace that overcomes a person, and it's accompanied by a sense of knowing what to do. God just gives you the answer to whatever is troubling you & you know how to handle it. That's what it means to hear His voice. It's not Omarosa's fault that Joy offended Christians and possibly people with mental illnesses. She did that 100% on her own. To a point... the thing is, Joy wouldn't have known to say what she said had Omarosa not said it first. That's my point. Joy was just quoting her. |
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Mar 15, 2018 10:43:38 GMT
I’m looking for the website where I discovered this (back in November 2016) when I saw it, I was like WTF?!?!! Had a whole list of my neighborhood and who they voted for in the Internet! I don’t remember what I was searching for that got me there. I know that the county voter records show maps of your home, what elections you voted in and what party affiliation you chose. I’m only guessing here, but are you thinking about the letters that were sent out years ago that say something like “Here are your neighbors and who they voted for. Go out and Vote.” And they actually had your neighbors’ names. Something like that? I recall that was very controversial (obviously) so, perhaps they made it on the Internet? That is quite possible! I was like OhMyGosh!!! |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2018 10:54:34 GMT
(Ok, but don’t anybody blame for me for derailing, lol.) “I won the places that represent two-thirds of America’s gross domestic product. So, I won the places that are optimistic, diverse, dynamic, moving forward. And his [Trump] whole campaign, “Make America Great Again,” was looking backwards - you didn’t like black people getting rights, you don’t like women getting jobs, you don’t want to see that Indian-American succeeding more than you are, whatever your problem is, I’m going to solve it.”
Really?! I don’t know who wrote this speech/interview answers, but it's a fail, in my opinion. First of all, this country is not just made up of Silicon Valley titans, Hollywood elites, and coastal millionaires. In fact, over one-third of this country is working-class. I don’t care how much you dislike them in private, but you don’t go out in public and disrespect them all over again. One of the reasons she lost that vital voting bloc is because of this arrogance. Yes, I said it – it’s arrogant. I really don’t know if the memories of her failures in Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin are so deep in the recesses of her mind that she had forgotten how crucial those three states were to her defeat. To even say things like this in India, where the working class is a huge portion of the population, is just remarkably vapid. Bill Clinton, for all his faults, never thought of the working class as expendable. He connected with them. Empathized with them. Listened to them. Obama had the same skills. Same for Reagan. Same for Carter. Bill told her time and time again that she needed to talk to the working class that has, historically, supported the Democratic Party. He knew how important they are. She and her campaign ignored his suggestions. I don’t know about anybody else on this board, but if I had a husband who managed to get elected twice IN SPITE of scandals, you better believe I’m taking his advice. Secondly, don’t imply that those who went for Trump are backwards. I don’t care what anyone really thinks of them because everyone has his/her own opinion, but if you’re a public figure as she is, you just do not do that. It reinforces the misguided notion that it is only the elites of this country who care about the country’s progress and are the only ones who matter. I have Republican friends and colleagues whose priorities happen to be different than mine, and yes, they voted for Trump. It does not mean that they’re backwards. It does not mean they are indifferent to equality. And it certainly doesn’t mean they are racists. I know this post will probably irk a lot of Liberals, but as far as I'm concerned, when you're a public figure you need to be held responsible for your words. Regardless of whether her entire speech/interview in India was well-received or not, the repercussions of these words she uttered only succeed in further dividing an already severely divided country. And heaven knows, we don’t need any more of that! Thank you, and very well said! I heard a portion of that, but not all of it. And yes, arrogant is spot on. IMO, Hillary thought absolutely, without a doubt, every.single.woman in this country was going to vote for her, because, well, she's a woman. I mean...why would a woman NOT vote for a woman? And all this time later, she's still criticizing and still insulting the women that didn't vote for her. Lordy. The added comments about Trump voters being anti-black, anti-Indian, anti-woman, etc. just frost the cake. |
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Post by peano on Mar 15, 2018 14:36:25 GMT
It would be awesome if you would cite a source for this, otherwise, it's kind of like vaguebooking. I don't watch television during the day. just search HILLARY BLAMES MEN in your search bar, and you'll come up with a zillion.  I don't watch tv either--I saw the clip on facebook. Then something like "I saw this on Facebook" would have been sufficient. I never would have thought to use your suggested search words from the context of your post. |
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Post by jenis40 on Mar 15, 2018 14:58:38 GMT
I hope it’s okay if I post here as a flaming liberal but I find it fascinating how we all perceive certain speeches, comments etc filtered through our own political bias.
Regarding Joy Behar- I don’t have the hatred for her some do because occasionally I agree with her (maybe 30%) but mostly because I think she’s a comedian and I don’t take what she says seriously. Same with Bill Maher, Dennis Miller, etc. Don’t agree with what she said about Pence/Christians and I’m glad she issued some sort of apology but honestly, not a blip on my radar.
Regarding Hillary Clinton- While there is some truth in saying that some women voted the way the head of the house wanted them too, it was certainly not in a significant enough amount to cost her election. Plus, it probably happened on both sides. Human nature is fickle and there are a lot of people pleasers out there. Mostly, I just wish she’d quit talking about the election.
I think we all need to get past our biases and admit that there are SOME racists out there (far more than some of us thought), SOME misogynists, SOME all-or-nothing liberals... So how do we take back our politics, etc from the fringes and “deplorables” who have stolen it from the folks who would rather have a government that works than “winning”?
ETA- I kind of wish we could move this to it’s own thread. Personally, I dislike clogging the Conservative thread with a bunch of liberals commenting.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2018 17:08:16 GMT
(Ok, but don’t anybody blame for me for derailing, lol.) “I won the places that represent two-thirds of America’s gross domestic product. So, I won the places that are optimistic, diverse, dynamic, moving forward. And his [Trump] whole campaign, “Make America Great Again,” was looking backwards - you didn’t like black people getting rights, you don’t like women getting jobs, you don’t want to see that Indian-American succeeding more than you are, whatever your problem is, I’m going to solve it.”
Really?! I don’t know who wrote this speech/interview answers, but it's a fail, in my opinion. First of all, this country is not just made up of Silicon Valley titans, Hollywood elites, and coastal millionaires. In fact, over one-third of this country is working-class. I don’t care how much you dislike them in private, but you don’t go out in public and disrespect them all over again. One of the reasons she lost that vital voting bloc is because of this arrogance. Yes, I said it – it’s arrogant. I really don’t know if the memories of her failures in Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin are so deep in the recesses of her mind that she had forgotten how crucial those three states were to her defeat. To even say things like this in India, where the working class is a huge portion of the population, is just remarkably vapid.
Secondly, don’t imply that those who went for Trump are backwards. I don’t care what anyone really thinks of them because everyone has his/her own opinion, but if you’re a public figure as she is, you just do not do that. It reinforces the misguided notion that it is only the elites of this country who care about the country’s progress and are the only ones who matter. I have Republican friends and colleagues whose priorities happen to be different than mine, and yes, they voted for Trump. It does not mean that they’re backwards. It does not mean they are indifferent to equality. And it certainly doesn’t mean they are racists. Living in the SF Bay Area I couldn’t ignore the bolded part. I just checked. There are 7M people living in the San Francisco Bay Area which happens to be the home of those “Silicon Valley Titans” and a lot of “coastal millionaires.” Out of the 7M people how many do you think are the titans and millionaires? A million maybe but more likely 500-750k if even that. Pull out a chunk for kids and students which means the rest are made up of small business owners and gasp the working class. Without checking I’m pretty the same applies in Southern California with the Hollywood types. California’s population is 39M + and the vast majority of adults in the state are the “working class”. The same can be said about the other coastal enlist states. So I don’t see how her comments are slamming the working class. In fact it could be argued the majority of the working class lives in the very states that supported her. There is no question the working class has benefited from having those Silicon Valley Titans hanging out here. I see her remarks as saying maybe those in rust belt states should be asking the question “how come those technology titans don’t come here and what do we need to do to get some here?” Why is there prosperity and innovation in the coastal elitist states and not so much in the rust belt states? What’s different? If I have gripe against the remarks Hillary made and has made since the election is she should have been making them prior to the election. Problem is a segment of the population “can’t handle the truth”. The future of this country revolves around technology and the skilled workers the technology requires. The future of this country is it will no longer be a white majority country. There is a segment of the population who are fighting these changes because it’s hard to adapt and in their mind it’s easier to live in the past. trump promised these folks the past and the other candidates, on both sides, stayed silent when it came to jobs. Staying silent was just a big of sin as trump promising these folks the past. I will give Hillary credit for trying when she talked to the coal miners but after the fallout she never talked about the real future facing the American workers again. Its really too bad. Now she is talking about it, while others still remain silent, and she is getting slammed. |
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lizacreates
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Post by lizacreates on Mar 15, 2018 17:22:37 GMT
Fred, you have your interpretation and I have mine. I highly doubt either of us can persuade the other to change those interpretations, and as disinclined as I am to do so, I would assume you are, too. You and I will have to agree to disagree.
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Post by LuvAgoodPaddle on Mar 15, 2018 20:39:49 GMT
The future of this country revolves around technology and the skilled workers the technology requires. Tell this to my husband who just found out on Monday his job is being sent to India or Argentina. He is a software engineer that works for a fortune 500 company and the programming jobs are being sent overseas. The higher ups in these companies think that anyone can push buttons and program, because they don't understand what the job entails. It's all about saving money. They would much rather pay someone $3.00/hr (not joking!) overseas that does horrible work with zero understanding of what needs to be done, then keep a quality employee with almost 30 yrs experience at a living wage here in the states. Yes, I am a bit bitter right now about the companies in our country doing this to our skilled technology workers. |
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Not possible. Someone made them vote against her. 
I don't watch tv either--I saw the clip on facebook.
