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Post by busy on Feb 22, 2018 16:08:35 GMT
I have no problem with the notes. Trump has gotten himself in trouble by saying things off the top of his head in the past. Some reminders of what to say are probably helpful. I have no problem with the 45 either. Sure, he's an egomaniac but all presidents are. You don't get to be leader of the free world, defeating all others, without being one. I do not believe any of our recent presidents were “egomaniacs.” Whether or not I agree with their politics, I believe our modern presidents from both parties have been motivated to serve the greater good, not in it for personal aggrandizement or enrichment. I do not believe that is true about Trump.
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Post by lisae on Feb 22, 2018 16:55:36 GMT
I understand that other presidents have had written talking points for such meetings. Given how bad he is 'off the cuff' I think someone on his staff was wise to do this.
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Post by busy on Feb 22, 2018 17:34:07 GMT
I understand that other presidents have had written talking points for such meetings. Given how bad he is 'off the cuff' I think someone on his staff was wise to do this. I don't think anyone is bothered by notes in general - that's normal. It's just the "I hear you" note.
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PLurker
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Post by PLurker on Feb 22, 2018 17:40:43 GMT
I don't have a problem with him having someone write up some notes for him.
I do find the contents a bit troubling and sad.
Cheat sheets are supposed to be for the hard stuff. These are not/should not be the hard stuff. Especially at the position he is in.
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Jili
Pearl Clutcher
SLPea
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Post by Jili on Feb 22, 2018 17:54:05 GMT
I have no problem with him working with staff to consult about how to handle a situation like this. Sometimes I even think it is helpful to role play or script certain situations.
Like others here, however, I find it sad and alarming that it's just so blatant. I'd like to think that our President wouldn't need to have his cheat sheet on his person quite so visibly.
I find it hard to believe that given a similar situation, if President Obama had a cheat sheet with a very obvious "I hear you" written on it and had '44' embroidered on his cuffs that people would be shouting from the rooftops how incompetent and arrogant he is. Yet the reaction for Donald Trump in this situation seems to be pretty mixed.
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Feb 22, 2018 19:07:14 GMT
Did he actually listen to them? Or was that just what he was supposed to say to pacify then?
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Feb 22, 2018 19:12:15 GMT
I have no problem with the notes. Trump has gotten himself in trouble by saying things off the top of his head in the past. Some reminders of what to say are probably helpful. I have no problem with the 45 either. Sure, he's an egomaniac but all presidents are. You don't get to be leader of the free world, defeating all others, without being one. There is a huge difference between having high self esteem and confidence, and being a narcissist or “egomaniac”.
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Post by gmcwife1 on Feb 22, 2018 20:00:58 GMT
Thank you for saying that. I'm not much of a talker. At all. If I were to speak before people in this emotionally charged situation, I'd need to even put my name on the card to remember to say it. Emotionally charged conversations are the worst. I’ve been in some big ones, and have left the conversation mad at myself for either getting too worked up, or not saying the right things. Wishing I would have had notes to stay on task. And these conversations weren’t about something so severe as what Trump was experiencing. Not everyone has the ability to stay calm cool and collected as easily as others. As far as the 45 on his sleeve, who cares? Shouldn’t he be proud of his position? To me, it’s the same as me wearing a company logo shirt around town, or my friend who’s a teacher wearing a “I teach” shirt, or “worlds greatest nurse” I agree Emotionally charged conversations often lead to key points being forgotten and/or the right words leaving your brain in the moment. I also make talking points when I have to speak and I take notes during discussions. Often questions, comments and solutions are coming at someone quickly. I like to be able to make a note of them so I can take them back and review them after the meeting. The same thing for before I go into a meeting. I like to make sure I have key points written down before hand.
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Post by M~ on Feb 22, 2018 20:07:57 GMT
"Donald, if you say these things, we promise you can play golf this weekend." He reminds me of a child told to behave in front of company. Awkward!!!!!
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Post by dewryce on Feb 22, 2018 20:30:52 GMT
Thank you for saying that. I'm not much of a talker. At all. If I were to speak before people in this emotionally charged situation, I'd need to even put my name on the card to remember to say it. Emotionally charged conversations are the worst. I’ve been in some big ones, and have left the conversation mad at myself for either getting too worked up, or not saying the right things. Wishing I would have had notes to stay on task. And these conversations weren’t about something so severe as what Trump was experiencing. Not everyone has the ability to stay calm cool and collected as easily as others. As far as the 45 on his sleeve, who cares? Shouldn’t he be proud of his position? To me, it’s the same as me wearing a company logo shirt around town, or my friend who’s a teacher wearing a “I teach” shirt, or “worlds greatest nurse” I think it is imperative that our President is one of those that is able to do so.
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Post by peano on Feb 22, 2018 20:38:53 GMT
Look, I am the world's worst public speaker and I would definitely rely on notes in any situation like that. But all you guys defending him, I seriously doubt that you need a note that reminds you essentially to remember to be a compassionate human being. Because normal, non-narcissistic people don't need reminders like that when they're listening to a traumatized high school student express his raw emotions and thoughts to them.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2018 20:46:15 GMT
Emotionally charged conversations are the worst. I’ve been in some big ones, and have left the conversation mad at myself for either getting too worked up, or not saying the right things. Wishing I would have had notes to stay on task. And these conversations weren’t about something so severe as what Trump was experiencing. Not everyone has the ability to stay calm cool and collected as easily as others. As far as the 45 on his sleeve, who cares? Shouldn’t he be proud of his position? To me, it’s the same as me wearing a company logo shirt around town, or my friend who’s a teacher wearing a “I teach” shirt, or “worlds greatest nurse” I agree Emotionally charged conversations often lead to key points being forgotten and/or the right words leaving your brain in the moment. I also make talking points when I have to speak and I take notes during discussions. Often questions, comments and solutions are coming at someone quickly. I like to be able to make a note of them so I can take them back and review them after the meeting. The same thing for before I go into a meeting. I like to make sure I have key points written down before hand. Exactly. Writing down very specific words you want to convey, in no way means you need to be told to have empathy. That reasoning is absurd.
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scrapngranny
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Only slightly senile
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Post by scrapngranny on Feb 22, 2018 21:26:49 GMT
I have no problem with talking point notes....if they didn’t have to include things just about anyone with an ounce of empathy could easily say with needing notes. These were teens that have been through a horrible tragedy, I think it would pretty easy to express heartfelt compassion for these kids.
If he needed notes of questions to ask them or concrete ideas to make a real difference, that’s great. If it is notes on blowing smoke up their asses, he can do that off the cuff. Teens can smell bullshit a mile away.
These kids are on the cusp of becoming voters, they will speak at the polls.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2018 5:09:14 GMT
Trump held an unprecedented open forum for students, teachers, shooting survivors, parents, and parents of victims to hear them. To HEAR what they want done, how they feel and to discuss any POSSIBLE solutions. I'm so glad all those people got that opportunity that I realize it really doesn't matter if he made notes on the most important points he wanted to cover in order that he didn't miss anything as the conversation took off and evolved. Sometimes that will happen. To ANYONE. Ensuring that didn't happen doesn't make him stupid or lacking empathy. In the current climate it's the opposite, actually.
I'm just glad all of these people got this opportunity to be heard. That point alone is major and certainly outweighs any spin to make it bad.
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Post by lucyg on Feb 26, 2018 6:24:02 GMT
I agree Emotionally charged conversations often lead to key points being forgotten and/or the right words leaving your brain in the moment. I also make talking points when I have to speak and I take notes during discussions. Often questions, comments and solutions are coming at someone quickly. I like to be able to make a note of them so I can take them back and review them after the meeting. The same thing for before I go into a meeting. I like to make sure I have key points written down before hand. Exactly. Writing down very specific words you want to convey, in no way means you need to be told to have empathy. That reasoning is absurd.Seriously. I can't even begin to imagine what you would have said, had a Pres. Hillary Clinton needed a note to remind her to express empathy to a traumatized, bereaved teen. ETA are there literally NO lengths to which you will not go to defend this utterly indefensible man? Not you specifically, but all of you. This is not a man who can't think what to say when faced with crowds and cameras.
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Deleted
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Sept 28, 2024 21:22:01 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2018 7:48:13 GMT
Exactly. Writing down very specific words you want to convey, in no way means you need to be told to have empathy. That reasoning is absurd. Seriously. I can't even begin to imagine what you would have said, had a Pres. Hillary Clinton needed a note to remind her to express empathy to a traumatized, bereaved teen. ETA are there literally NO lengths to which you will not go to defend this utterly indefensible man? Not you specifically, but all of you. This is not a man who can't think what to say when faced with crowds and cameras. Trump held an unprecedented open forum for students, teachers, shooting survivors, parents, and parents of victims to hear them. To HEAR what they want done, how they feel and to discuss any POSSIBLE solutions. I'm so glad all those people got that opportunity that I realize it really doesn't matter if he made notes on the most important points he wanted to cover in order that he didn't miss anything as the conversation took off and evolved. Sometimes that will happen. To ANYONE. Ensuring that didn't happen doesn't make him stupid or lacking empathy. In the current climate it's the opposite, actually. I'm just glad all of these people got this opportunity to be heard. That point alone is major and certainly outweighs any spin to make it bad.
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anniebygaslight
Drama Llama
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Post by anniebygaslight on Feb 26, 2018 7:56:24 GMT
The fact that a leader has to be reminded to be empathetic at a time like this says it all really.
''I hear you' is not the same as 'I am listening'.
Briefing notes at a meeting are one thing, but this is just something else.
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Deleted
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Sept 28, 2024 21:22:01 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2018 8:17:44 GMT
Sure. And we know he abuses his wife because she was smiling and then she stopped smiling instead of leaving a big smile permanently plastered on her face. And he's Hitler because he celebrated National Patriotic Day, just like every single President since Eisenhower. And his wife is an idiot because she wore high heels on the plane. Or something.
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amom23
Drama Llama
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Jun 27, 2014 12:39:18 GMT
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Post by amom23 on Feb 26, 2018 10:19:33 GMT
Seriously. I can't even begin to imagine what you would have said, had a Pres. Hillary Clinton needed a note to remind her to express empathy to a traumatized, bereaved teen. ETA are there literally NO lengths to which you will not go to defend this utterly indefensible man? Not you specifically, but all of you. This is not a man who can't think what to say when faced with crowds and cameras. Trump held an unprecedented open forum for students, teachers, shooting survivors, parents, and parents of victims to hear them. To HEAR what they want done, how they feel and to discuss any POSSIBLE solutions. I'm so glad all those people got that opportunity that I realize it really doesn't matter if he made notes on the most important points he wanted to cover in order that he didn't miss anything as the conversation took off and evolved. Sometimes that will happen. To ANYONE. Ensuring that didn't happen doesn't make him stupid or lacking empathy. In the current climate it's the opposite, actually. I'm just glad all of these people got this opportunity to be heard. That point alone is major and certainly outweighs any spin to make it bad. Yep and then Trump went to CPAC and gave an extremely pro gun, pro NRA speech. So much for listening to those students/parents. But you go right ahead and keep on defending him.
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anniebygaslight
Drama Llama
I'd love a cup of tea. #1966
Posts: 7,402
Location: Third Rock from the sun.
Jun 28, 2014 14:08:19 GMT
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Post by anniebygaslight on Feb 26, 2018 11:04:27 GMT
You don't get to be leader of the free world, defeating all others, without being one. Defeating all others?? Maybe others were more interested in promoting world peace. Don’t you think this Leader of the Free World thing is a bit outdated now anyway... Absolutely right, gar. I'm damned sure that nobody outside of the United States considers that any American President, whoever he or she might be, is the leader of the free world.
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Feb 26, 2018 13:44:51 GMT
I agree Emotionally charged conversations often lead to key points being forgotten and/or the right words leaving your brain in the moment. I also make talking points when I have to speak and I take notes during discussions. Often questions, comments and solutions are coming at someone quickly. I like to be able to make a note of them so I can take them back and review them after the meeting. The same thing for before I go into a meeting. I like to make sure I have key points written down before hand. Exactly. Writing down very specific words you want to convey, in no way means you need to be told to have empathy. That reasoning is absurd. I may be more likely to agree with you on that if he had shown any inkling of an ability to be emphatic in the past. What he has shown us is that he really does need to be told what to say because it does not come naturally to him. That is sad for him as a person, but dangerous for us with him as the POTUS.
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Feb 26, 2018 13:47:05 GMT
Trump held an unprecedented open forum for students, teachers, shooting survivors, parents, and parents of victims to hear them. To HEAR what they want done, how they feel and to discuss any POSSIBLE solutions. I'm so glad all those people got that opportunity that I realize it really doesn't matter if he made notes on the most important points he wanted to cover in order that he didn't miss anything as the conversation took off and evolved. Sometimes that will happen. To ANYONE. Ensuring that didn't happen doesn't make him stupid or lacking empathy. In the current climate it's the opposite, actually. I'm just glad all of these people got this opportunity to be heard. That point alone is major and certainly outweighs any spin to make it bad. Again. The problem isn’t the notes. It is having to be reminded to be empathetic that is he problem.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2018 19:05:33 GMT
Trump held an unprecedented open forum for students, teachers, shooting survivors, parents, and parents of victims to hear them. To HEAR what they want done, how they feel and to discuss any POSSIBLE solutions. I'm so glad all those people got that opportunity that I realize it really doesn't matter if he made notes on the most important points he wanted to cover in order that he didn't miss anything as the conversation took off and evolved. Sometimes that will happen. To ANYONE. Ensuring that didn't happen doesn't make him stupid or lacking empathy. In the current climate it's the opposite, actually. I'm just glad all of these people got this opportunity to be heard. That point alone is major and certainly outweighs any spin to make it bad. Yep and then Trump went to CPAC and gave an extremely pro gun, pro NRA speech. So much for listening to those students/parents. But you go right ahead and keep on defending him. Are you under some impression that listening to people and hearing what they have to say means you're now required to agree with them and change your own beliefs?
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J u l e e
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Posts: 6,531
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Jun 28, 2014 2:50:47 GMT
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Post by J u l e e on Feb 26, 2018 19:22:38 GMT
Exactly. Writing down very specific words you want to convey, in no way means you need to be told to have empathy. That reasoning is absurd. Seriously. I can't even begin to imagine what you would have said, had a Pres. Hillary Clinton needed a note to remind her to express empathy to a traumatized, bereaved teen. ETA are there literally NO lengths to which you will not go to defend this utterly indefensible man? Not you specifically, but all of you. This is not a man who can't think what to say when faced with crowds and cameras. What Trump meant to say - "I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot someone AND MY FOLLOWERS WILL RISE UP AND DEFEND ME!"
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2018 19:27:26 GMT
Trump held an unprecedented open forum for students, teachers, shooting survivors, parents, and parents of victims to hear them. To HEAR what they want done, how they feel and to discuss any POSSIBLE solutions. I'm so glad all those people got that opportunity that I realize it really doesn't matter if he made notes on the most important points he wanted to cover in order that he didn't miss anything as the conversation took off and evolved. Sometimes that will happen. To ANYONE. Ensuring that didn't happen doesn't make him stupid or lacking empathy. In the current climate it's the opposite, actually. I'm just glad all of these people got this opportunity to be heard. That point alone is major and certainly outweighs any spin to make it bad. Again. The problem isn’t the notes. It is having to be reminded to be empathetic that is he problem. Again. Notes remind you of the words you want to make sure don't get lost in the evolution of conversation. They in no way mean you have to be told to be empathetic. I disagree with the interpretation that in the past he's had to be reminded to be empathetic, but I could be wrong, can you give an example of a time when he's had to be reminded? When an expert on say... retirement planning, writes down all the points he wants to cover at the dinner he's hosting to teach people the way to plan for retirement, it most certainly doesn't mean he needs to reminded to teach people. It just means he doesn't want to forget ANY of the points in the evolution of the conversation. To suggest notes mean he needs to be reminded to teach is absurd. That applies to Trump too.
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Post by crimsoncat05 on Feb 26, 2018 19:35:59 GMT
I disagree with the interpretation that in the past he's had to be reminded to be empathetic, but I could be wrong, can you give an example of a time when he's had to be reminded? nope, because to my knowledge, he's never actually ACTED empathetic, needing reminders to do so or otherwise. Never empathetic-- To anyone. At any time. (Remember him tossing paper towels and canned goods to people in Puerto Rico, who had just lost EVERYTHING?!? yeah, he's empathetic, all right. /s) Past history is sometimes an indicator of future performance. Thus, the written reminder for him to make a statement that would make him appear empathetic at that meeting.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2018 19:38:42 GMT
Seriously. I can't even begin to imagine what you would have said, had a Pres. Hillary Clinton needed a note to remind her to express empathy to a traumatized, bereaved teen. ETA are there literally NO lengths to which you will not go to defend this utterly indefensible man? Not you specifically, but all of you. This is not a man who can't think what to say when faced with crowds and cameras. What Trump meant to say - "I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot someone AND MY FOLLOWERS WILL RISE UP AND DEFEND ME!" I'm not a follower and would never defend him for just shooting someone or anything as asinine, but the absurdity of some of these claims just begs to be addressed sometimes... Having a talking point written down means you do not know how to... whatever the subject of the talking point is. He abuses his wife because she was smiling and then she stopped smiling instead of leaving a big smile permanently plastered on her face. He's Hitler because he celebrated National Patriotic Day, just like every single President since Eisenhower. He's a horrible person because he changed the curtains Michelle probably picked out, just like every single First Family ever in the White House. Melania is an unhappy wife because you picked 2 pictures to post where she was listening or something with no smile on her face to prove it, while ignoring the 8-10 with her laughing and smiling. His wife is an idiot because she wore high heels on the plane. Or something.
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Deleted
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Sept 28, 2024 21:22:02 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2018 19:52:21 GMT
What Trump meant to say - "I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot someone AND MY FOLLOWERS WILL RISE UP AND DEFEND ME!" I'm not a follower and would never defend him for just shooting someone or anything as asinine, but the absurdity of some of these claims just begs to be addressed sometimes... Having a talking point written down means you do not know how to... whatever the subject of the talking point is. He abuses his wife because she was smiling and then she stopped smiling instead of leaving a big smile permanently plastered on her face. He's Hitler because he celebrated National Patriotic Day, just like every single President since Eisenhower. He's a horrible person because he changed the curtains Michelle probably picked out, just like every single First Family ever in the White House. Melania is an unhappy wife because you picked 2 pictures to post where she was listening or something with no smile on her face to prove it, while ignoring the 8-10 with her laughing and smiling. His wife is an idiot because she wore high heels on the plane. Or something. I don’t give two shits about that stuff. What really bothers me is that he shows more emotion and ACTION over his damn Inaugural Attendance than 17 people being killed in a fricking school!!! What really bothers me is that he HAS NOT divested of his businesses and is using his position to benefit himself. He has basically flipped the bird at any ethical boundaries. The majority of people here care more about these things than what Melania wore or how the White House is decorated. I am really sick and tired of you lumping us all in the same pot. Like tired AF of it!
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PLurker
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Post by PLurker on Feb 26, 2018 20:08:25 GMT
even though it contradicts the definition, the only time he really shows empathy is to himself- when referring to himself in third person.
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Deleted
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Sept 28, 2024 21:22:01 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2018 23:49:58 GMT
I'm not a follower and would never defend him for just shooting someone or anything as asinine, but the absurdity of some of these claims just begs to be addressed sometimes... Having a talking point written down means you do not know how to... whatever the subject of the talking point is. He abuses his wife because she was smiling and then she stopped smiling instead of leaving a big smile permanently plastered on her face. He's Hitler because he celebrated National Patriotic Day, just like every single President since Eisenhower. He's a horrible person because he changed the curtains Michelle probably picked out, just like every single First Family ever in the White House. Melania is an unhappy wife because you picked 2 pictures to post where she was listening or something with no smile on her face to prove it, while ignoring the 8-10 with her laughing and smiling. His wife is an idiot because she wore high heels on the plane. Or something. I don’t give two shits about that stuff. What really bothers me is that he shows more emotion and ACTION over his damn Inaugural Attendance than 17 people being killed in a fricking school!!! What really bothers me is that he HAS NOT divested of his businesses and is using his position to benefit himself. He has basically flipped the bird at any ethical boundaries. The majority of people here care more about these things than what Melania wore or how the White House is decorated. I am really sick and tired of you lumping us all in the same pot. Like tired AF of it! I'm not lumping ANYONE in the same pot. I see the THINGS like those listed above that people get upset about enough to make threads about as ridiculous. I see the outrage over this taking notes thing as ridiculous as those listed above. This has nothing to do with singling anyone out or grouping anyone together. It has nothing to do with people, it's about MY opinion on the absurdity of these SUBJECTS to be bothered by. We disagree on the interpretation that having a talking point written down means you do not know how to do... whatever the subject of the talking point is. We'll never agree on that, so there's not much else to say.
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