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Post by dewryce on Apr 17, 2018 22:22:16 GMT
This whole situation confuses me, tbh—maybe because I’m not from the US? If these guys—or anyone else—are sitting in a place of business/restaurant and not ordering anything, why is that okay? And then if they are asked to leave and don’t, why is that okay? I work in a public library and if someone violates our terms of use and is asked to leave, not leaving means security calls the police because the person is trespassing at that point. Wouldn’t one of the terms of use of a restaurant be that you are purchasing food? If you just want a place to hang out, a park or mall or your own place of business might be a better option? Or just buy a coffee, problem solved? Yes, as gar indicated they were waiting for someone else to join them before they ordered. This is a very common practice at Starbucks and would not have been a problem if they were white.
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Post by katieanna on Apr 18, 2018 13:08:29 GMT
Another pea successfully alienated despite her best efforts to learn and understand the other side 🙄 Ask her if this is a first. Just like I remember you. It's always Olan. Everyone already believes you so ask yourself why the need to drive it home and convince so many people how I like to shut down dialogue. This is a message board. Words. Text. Quoting feature. Meanwhile are you going to give up your latte in solidarity with black people? Are white people welcome into your "space"? I saw the Starbucks incident on the news. As someone said earlier, the store's policy may have to do with problems they've encountered before so in that respect, I understand. BUT - if the store policy is not followed regularly and the people in question were arrested because they're black, that's a whole other issue. Then the store itself should be held accountable for how it handled the situation. Quite frankly, I'm for justice for ALL...each dependent upon their particular situation and their own part in that situation...NOT just because they're black, white, or any other nationality.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2018 15:00:44 GMT
An employee at Starbucks made a very poor judgement call, resulting in an appalling action. This brought to the nation’s attention important issues, and is resulting in policy changes in both corporate and law enforcement. A company, which is not of course able to completely control its tens of thousands of employees, completely takes responsibility, apologizes, and vows more education to prevent future scenarios. The men in question, who handled themselves admirably, have the option of hiring lawyers to get justice for their trauma, and perhaps, are also at least taking satisfaction in the fact that this incident is showing up the unconscious prejudice and profiling that POC endure. A situation that resulted in no violence, but still furthers the discussion and education is a good thing in the war against prejudice and discrimination. Will I boycott Starbucks? No, and neither will my black friends and family members. They have shown since their beginning that is not the kind of place they are. If they had discriminatory policies, that would be a completely different story. I only go once a week, so it’s not that big a deal. And there are plenty of other places that could make me an americano. But my DIL has been a SB barista for many years, and while the company is not perfect, they try hard. They’ve had people boycott them because there weren’t Christmas trees on their cups. They’ve had boycotts by Trump supporters. They’ve been boycotted because people lyingly said they refused to serve marines. You don’t get to be a big company without someone in your employ making mistakes and muddying your face. It’s how it’s handled that is important. What would I have done? After watching the video,( and truly, that’s the only way for sure to even draw a conclusion), I too would have videoed, told the police loudly the men had done nothing wrong, and gone to the station to give witness. Would I have thought to hand my number to them? Maybe not, but I will now if an occasion of injustice ever occurs in front of me, thx for the idea! But I, too, would never do anything that could trigger violence or the use of force. I would think we’ve learned that by now. I deplore violence, discrimination, injustice, and hate. Deplore it. I also know we need to reduce violence. If that makes me a “ woman like you” so be it. Only in my dreams will it be completely eradicated. eta: I am NOT saying it is good this happened. But that good can come of the publicity eta #2: Starbucks has also been boycotted by breastfeeding mothers, because of another idiotic employee. My first thought in handing my name and number to someone being arrested is it becoming "lost" during the booking process of bagging their belongings. So maybe theres a more efficient way to be a witness for an episode like this.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2018 15:04:37 GMT
IMO, if someone physically came in between the police and the men, it most likely would have escalated the situation and put them and others more at risk. I think it would have resulted in Andrew Yaffe's arrest but that's what I expect of allyship. He is also some sort of business associate of the arrested men. If we are meeting at Starbucks and as you walk in I am being lead out in handcuffs. Use your voice. No results? Use your body. Block a door. Act a plum fool and be lead away in handcuffs with me. That's allyship to Olan. No one has to agree or model their allyship after my expectations. Nothing I said should have communicated that. Also I've read the Twitter accounts of the woman who recorded the incident and I think she is doing a fantastic job as an ally. I did not and would not expect a stranger:patron to act as my ally/human shield. This I absolutely think we should have that expectation of Andrew Yaffe. When will America not only agree what's happening is wrong but demand change. You're complicit as Americans when innocent black citizens die and no one is held accountable. You have bi-racial sons and a black husband...Don't you feel an obligation to do something to affect change. Verb=Action Thus far no laws have been changed as a result of all the innocent black citizens who were killed by police or racial violence. We can barely get crimes classified as hate crimes. There are even states with no hate crime laws at all. Is it better for an ally to be sitting in jail useless or better for them to be on the outside getting things done once an improper arrest has been made?
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Apr 18, 2018 16:21:21 GMT
An employee at Starbucks made a very poor judgement call, resulting in an appalling action. This brought to the nation’s attention important issues, and is resulting in policy changes in both corporate and law enforcement. A company, which is not of course able to completely control its tens of thousands of employees, completely takes responsibility, apologizes, and vows more education to prevent future scenarios. The men in question, who handled themselves admirably, have the option of hiring lawyers to get justice for their trauma, and perhaps, are also at least taking satisfaction in the fact that this incident is showing up the unconscious prejudice and profiling that POC endure. A situation that resulted in no violence, but still furthers the discussion and education is a good thing in the war against prejudice and discrimination. Will I boycott Starbucks? No, and neither will my black friends and family members. They have shown since their beginning that is not the kind of place they are. If they had discriminatory policies, that would be a completely different story. I only go once a week, so it’s not that big a deal. And there are plenty of other places that could make me an americano. But my DIL has been a SB barista for many years, and while the company is not perfect, they try hard. They’ve had people boycott them because there weren’t Christmas trees on their cups. They’ve had boycotts by Trump supporters. They’ve been boycotted because people lyingly said they refused to serve marines. You don’t get to be a big company without someone in your employ making mistakes and muddying your face. It’s how it’s handled that is important. What would I have done? After watching the video,( and truly, that’s the only way for sure to even draw a conclusion), I too would have videoed, told the police loudly the men had done nothing wrong, and gone to the station to give witness. Would I have thought to hand my number to them? Maybe not, but I will now if an occasion of injustice ever occurs in front of me, thx for the idea! But I, too, would never do anything that could trigger violence or the use of force. I would think we’ve learned that by now. I deplore violence, discrimination, injustice, and hate. Deplore it. I also know we need to reduce violence. If that makes me a “ woman like you” so be it. Only in my dreams will it be completely eradicated. eta: I am NOT saying it is good this happened. But that good can come of the publicity eta #2: Starbucks has also been boycotted by breastfeeding mothers, because of another idiotic employee. My first thought in handing my name and number to someone being arrested is it becoming "lost" during the booking process of bagging their belongings. So maybe theres a more efficient way to be a witness for an episode like this. Does anyone know the number of innocent black citizens who were killed by police before a booking process could take place? Does anyone know the number of "guilty" black citizens killed by police before a booking process could take place? Just in the last decade. Past 5 years?** Sandra Bland was booked and never made it home... I've been accused of being dismissive in but can you see how dismissive each of you are being when I say allyship looks like us both cuffed? And then how foolish it looks to make it seem like I am a poor teacher (though I have no responsibility to educate you) when I agree to disagree nicely and then firmly refuse to go back and forth with you about why you disagree with me? *Admittedly I don't know the exact number of deaths combined but I and many other black citizens feel like one is enough given the history of racial violence between black people and the police.* It's no wonder racism is so pervasive because your idea of allyship means ignoring the fact that innocent until proven guilty doesn't fucking apply to black people and just slipping them your name. It's not working. It never worked. It's getting worse. Your role the last time injustice was rampant looked like what How will "freedom fighters" and "abolitionist" be described as years from now. I am going to be the old black lady directing folks to these archives of white Women being made aware and then disregarding the message all because they hate the "teacher" who really didn't ask for that title. Am I willing to help? Sure. Actionable change or you like racism as much as white men *shrugs*
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2018 16:52:52 GMT
My first thought in handing my name and number to someone being arrested is it becoming "lost" during the booking process of bagging their belongings. So maybe theres a more efficient way to be a witness for an episode like this. Does anyone know the number of innocent black citizens who were killed by police before a booking process could take place? Does anyone know the number of "guilty" black citizens killed by police before a booking process could take place? Just in the last decade. Past 5 years?** Sandra Bland was booked and never made it home... I've been accused of being dismissive in but can you see how dismissive each of you are being when I say allyship looks like us both cuffed? And then how foolish it looks to make it seem like I am a poor teacher (though I have no responsibility to educate you) when I agree to disagree nicely and then firmly refuse to go back and forth with you about why you disagree with me? *Admittedly I don't know the exact number of deaths combined but I and many other black citizens feel like one is enough given the history of racial violence between black people and the police.* It's no wonder racism is so pervasive because your idea of allyship means ignoring the fact that innocent until proven guilty doesn't fucking apply to black people and just slipping them your name. It's not working. It never worked. It's getting worse. Your role the last time injustice was rampant looked like what How will "freedom fighters" and "abolitionist" be described as years from now. I am going to be the old black lady directing folks to these archives of white Women being made aware and then disregarding the message all because they hate the "teacher" who really didn't ask for that title. Am I willing to help? Sure. Actionable change or you like racism as much as white men *shrugs* I specifically said that the idea that slipping them your name is not a good idea for a very specific reason, so I'm not sure how you can say that's my idea of being an ally. Im looking for good, effective solutions to this issue and I'm with you, not against you.
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Apr 18, 2018 17:01:08 GMT
Does anyone know the number of innocent black citizens who were killed by police before a booking process could take place? Does anyone know the number of "guilty" black citizens killed by police before a booking process could take place? Just in the last decade. Past 5 years?** Sandra Bland was booked and never made it home... I've been accused of being dismissive in but can you see how dismissive each of you are being when I say allyship looks like us both cuffed? And then how foolish it looks to make it seem like I am a poor teacher (though I have no responsibility to educate you) when I agree to disagree nicely and then firmly refuse to go back and forth with you about why you disagree with me? *Admittedly I don't know the exact number of deaths combined but I and many other black citizens feel like one is enough given the history of racial violence between black people and the police.* It's no wonder racism is so pervasive because your idea of allyship means ignoring the fact that innocent until proven guilty doesn't fucking apply to black people and just slipping them your name. It's not working. It never worked. It's getting worse. Your role the last time injustice was rampant looked like what How will "freedom fighters" and "abolitionist" be described as years from now. I am going to be the old black lady directing folks to these archives of white Women being made aware and then disregarding the message all because they hate the "teacher" who really didn't ask for that title. Am I willing to help? Sure. Actionable change or you like racism as much as white men *shrugs* I specifically said that the idea that slipping them your name is not a good idea for a very specific reason, so I'm not sure how you can say that's my idea of being an ally. Im looking for good, effective solutions to this issue and I'm with you, not against you. @bloomy I understood what you were saying. I was just piggybacking off the thought of a name on the piece of paper being "lost" in the booking process. That's why I quoted you. But my reposonse should be read in "General you" I've considered making that my signature.
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MizIndependent
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Post by MizIndependent on Apr 18, 2018 17:06:03 GMT
I am going to be the old black lady directing folks to these archives of white Women being made aware and then disregarding the message all because they hate the "teacher" who really didn't ask for that title. No one here is "disregarding the message". In fact, the general consensus is that we're all upset about it too and are actively fighting it whenever we directly encounter it. I specifically said that the idea that slipping them your name is not a good idea for a very specific reason, so I'm not sure how you can say that's my idea of being an ally. Im looking for good, effective solutions to this issue and I'm with you, not against you. @bloomy I understood what you were saying. I was just piggybacking off the thought of a name on the piece of paper being "lost" in the booking process. That's why I quoted you. But my reposonse should be read in "General you" I've considered making that my signature. While that is a good idea in theory, you might remember that a lot of us have our signatures turned off. Perhaps if you clarified your responses at the time you post them, then you wouldn't be misunderstood. Most of us indicate "general you" in parens to clarify that we are responding generally instead of specifically to the one person we quoted. It's just a suggestion.
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Apr 18, 2018 17:33:15 GMT
mynorthwest.com/956724/starbucks-implicit-bias-training/amp/"Greenwald literally wrote the book on implicit bias. It’s call “Blindspot: Hidden Biases of Good People.” He says there is currently no known method that can overcome implicit bias. The best approach is to simply not provide an opportunity for unconscious prejudices. For example, Greenwald points to a 1990s study, when symphonies held blind auditions. Conductors could not see who was performing. The result was a sudden jump in the number of women hired to symphonies." The last time someone showed implicit bias toward me it resulted in her membership being revoked. She implied that I was a homeless woman and shouldn't "treat the gym like a hotel" I being the proactive black woman I am, went and got management for her. When you don't allow someone to get their lie together they usually tell the truth. Her explanation for why she thought I didn't belong soon revealed she just liked the corner I was occupying. Had she considered how bare her ass was when she started being combative and demanding I not occupy space I would have never known that flushed look is a whole body experience. Blind interactions are impossible outside of Black Panther cosplay I think this guy may be on to something. I still think it's "progressive" that Starbucks try. I wonder if the company doing the training is black owned. Can you imagine Olan leading implicit bias training?
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Apr 18, 2018 17:41:04 GMT
Ask her if this is a first. Just like I remember you. It's always Olan. Everyone already believes you so ask yourself why the need to drive it home and convince so many people how I like to shut down dialogue. This is a message board. Words. Text. Quoting feature. Meanwhile are you going to give up your latte in solidarity with black people? Are white people welcome into your "space"? I saw the Starbucks incident on the news. As someone said earlier, the store's policy may have to do with problems they've encountered before so in that respect, I understand. BUT - if the store policy is not followed regularly and the people in question were arrested because they're black, that's a whole other issue. Then the store itself should be held accountable for how it handled the situation. Quite frankly, I'm for justice for ALL...each dependent upon their particular situation and their own part in that situation...NOT just because they're black, white, or any other nationality. Are white women welcome in my personal space or am I comfortable actively working toward a better world with a white women? I want to be sure I understand your question. I will be honest and admit I've ended several relationships with my white friends. Most I wasn't honest with but some I just literally fell off the face of the earth. Ironically they are the most persistent of my old friends. At times when Olan seems really lashy I've been grappling with ending those relationships even though I know it's for the best. I tell you the peas still provide the same level diversion as before I recognized how bad the race relations are here hahaha! Now I just have less time.
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ginacivey
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Post by ginacivey on Apr 18, 2018 17:48:42 GMT
or example, Greenwald points to a 1990s study, when symphonies held blind auditions. Conductors could not see who was performing. The result was a sudden jump in the number of women hired to symphonies." Malcolm Gladwell describes it in his book Blink: The Power of Thinking without Thinkinghe talked about a european symphony that just could not handle the thought of a female trombone player he also discuss racial biases and he talks about how people react under extreme duress if you - the general you - have never read Malcolm Gladwell i highly recommend any of his books or his archived articles from The New Yorker gina
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Apr 18, 2018 17:49:23 GMT
I am comfortable working alongside white women because I know how key it is that we collaborate. I am cautious given the history between black and white women. Women birth a nation. I strongly believe that. We have to figure out why the nation you birthed doesn't want to see anyone else make it in America? We have to examine your culpability in all of that. The interview of James Alex Fields is a must watch as it relates to that. time.com/4898485/james-alex-fields-jr-mother-charlottesville-protest-driver/YouTube version wasn't clean but this one should work
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MizIndependent
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Post by MizIndependent on Apr 18, 2018 18:08:43 GMT
We have to figure out why the nation you birthed doesn't want to see anyone else make it in America? We have to examine your culpability in all of that. "We have to figure out why the nation you birthed by modern society doesn't want to see anyone else make it in America? We have to examine your the culpability in all of that."FIFY. And you're right. There is no place in modern society for any kind of racial bias...so why does it exist and how can we dispose of it?
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tracylynn
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Post by tracylynn on Apr 18, 2018 19:01:14 GMT
We have to figure out why the nation you birthed doesn't want to see anyone else make it in America? We have to examine your culpability in all of that. "We have to figure out why the nation you birthed by modern society doesn't want to see anyone else make it in America? We have to examine your the culpability in all of that."FIFY. And you're right. There is no place in modern society for any kind of racial bias...so why does it exist and how can we dispose of it? Thank you for rephrasing that. The problem here is that Olan continues to paint white women with a broad brush and doesn't understand why that is offensive. At all. Also, I'll make a statement about what Andrew Yaffe should have done - exactly what he did. There is absolutely no value in him turning a non-violent situation into something different and getting cuffs put on because of that. I would NEVER ask any friend of mine to step into any situation and get arrested along side of me. Never. I don't care what color you, I or are anyone else is. I'm sure to Olan that means I don't have allyship, and honestly, I just can't worry about what she thinks of me. I know where I stand with my friends and family, I know what I'm doing for the cause (as Olan puts it) and I know what I could do better. I'll say this again, I'm disappointed that Olan always wants to turn these threads into something other than a constructive conversation. I think there's a lot all of us can learn from each other and it just turns into a shit show instead.
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Apr 18, 2018 21:11:38 GMT
If racism was just an occasional occurrence and not pervasive/systematic then the "not all" argument might make sense. The truth hurts. You can rephrase what I've said so it's more palatable but that will never change the role you played in racial violence. Literally nothing has changed. The black kid almost got shot because his wife cried "big black man" at the door". Historically you'll see the wife of a plantation owner just as active in the abuse of enslaved Africans as her husband was. Public lynchings. You told the lie that resulted in an innocent man being killed. Massacres....again all because of a lie you told. The sexual abuse that enslaved African women suffered was okay you. The fact that I am dying during childbirth at 4x the rate as you. All of that must be okay with you because you've done nothing actionable to change it. You raised the men that were capable of such violence too. What has America done to reprogram itself after that much dysfunction? What made you better people? Why is it preferred that I preface everything with some Not all just so you don't feel guilty about what lies at your feet. 54% of white women voted for 45 and I know people hate to equate Republicans with racism but I'm Beyond believing that lie too so let's just call a duck a duck and solve the problem.
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Apr 18, 2018 21:26:26 GMT
The title of this thread is so fitting now. Feminism left black women behind. Not all feminist though *winks* just a couple. timeline.com/amp/p/44ee502a3c6The collective was founded on the idea that, as Princeton Professor Keeanga Yamahtta Taylor explained in How We Get Free, “Black women’s experiences cannot be reduced to either race or gender but have to be understood on their own terms.” As the Combahee River Collective Statement read, “We realize that the only people who care enough about us to work consistently for our liberation is us.” The Combahee River Collective was named after Harriet Tubman’s 1853 raid on the Combahee River, in South Carolina, that freed 750 slaves. The group formed out of frustration with white feminist activists’ unwillingness to champion issues that particularly affected black women: sterilization, sexual assault, and low-wage labor. Meanwhile, many black women felt alienated from the black liberation movement, as it was male-dominated and prone to sexism. A black nationalist pamphlet from the early seventies read, “We understand that it is and has been traditional that the man is the head of the house … his knowledge of the world is broader, his awareness is greater, his understanding is fuller and his application of this information is wiser.” The women were united by a firm belief that black oppression was rooted in American capital; they didn’t bother to seek equality with white men and women but to dismantle the system of capitalism itself. Though the collective wasn’t always philosophically aligned with other black, socialist, and feminist groups, they sought to join forces anyway, since dismantling behemoth oppressors like patriarchy, capitalism, and racism required a vast coalition. In the late seventies, members of the collective would write, “If Black women were free, it would mean that everyone else would have to be free since our freedom would necessitate the destruction of all systems of oppression.” When it first started meeting in 1974, it conceived of itself as a consciousness-raising group. In this nascent state, internal disagreements about what the group should be fell along sexual identity, class, and political lines. Some thought it should be an activist group, some did not. Some women left the group. Others joined, including the activist and feminist writer Audre Lorde and the poet and activist Akasha Gloria Hull. The collective got involved in anti-sterilization and anti-domestic violence campaigns, abortion rights activism, and International Women’s Day activities. It was a global movement, a part of a larger anti-colonial, anti-war struggle, undergirded by a belief, as Yamahtta Taylor writes, “that another world is possible.” In 1977, the collective released its manifesto and began holding retreats across the Northeast, to plan actions and discuss issues of intersectionality — the idea that overlapping identities, such as being black and female and gay, create unique oppressions and challenges. It was also a way to unite a network of women who, as Barbara Smith explained, needed a way to combat “the isolation we faced as Black feminists.” In her organizing work, Smith traveled all over the Northeast and was enriched by meeting so many like-minded thinkers. “Wouldn’t it be great if we could get together?” she wondered. Thousands of women joined. The retreats were also meant to be fun and affirming. The three original founders loved to cook, and as Smith said, “we would just absolutely throw down.” They would share the things they were reading, photocopying documents for one another. “The overwhelming feeling that we had,” Smith said, “is that after years and years we had finally found each other.”
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MizIndependent
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Post by MizIndependent on Apr 18, 2018 22:20:02 GMT
If racism was just an occasional occurrence and not pervasive/systematic then the "not all" argument might make sense. The truth hurts. You can rephrase what I've said so it's more palatable but that will never change the role you played in racial violence. Literally nothing has changed. The black kid almost got shot because his wife cried "big black man" at the door". Historically you'll see the wife of a plantation owner just as active in the abuse of enslaved Africans as her husband was. Public lynchings. You told the lie that resulted in an innocent man being killed. Massacres....again all because of a lie you told. The sexual abuse that enslaved African women suffered was okay you. The fact that I am dying during childbirth at 4x the rate as you. All of that must be okay with you because you've done nothing actionable to change it. You raised the men that were capable of such violence too. What has America done to reprogram itself after that much dysfunction? What made you better people? Why is it preferred that I preface everything with some Not all just so you don't feel guilty about what lies at your feet. 54% of white women voted for 45 and I know people hate to equate Republicans with racism but I'm Beyond believing that lie too so let's just call a duck a duck and solve the problem. "GENERAL YOU"Preface: "The black kid almost got shot because his wife cried 'big black man' at the door. Historically you'll see the wife of a plantation owner just as active in the abuse of enslaved Africans as her husband was." Accusation 1: "You told the lie that resulted in an innocent man being killed. Massacres....again all because of a lie you told."Rewrite - Terrible lies were told that resulted in innocent men being killed. Massacres...again all because of lies told by thoughtless selfish people." Accusation 2: "The sexual abuse that enslaved African women suffered was okay [sic] you."Rewrite - The sexual abuse that enslaved African-American women suffered was okay with a morally corrupt society that didn't view African-American women as individual people. That same mentality still exists today. Accusation 3: "The fact that I am dying during childbirth at 4x the rate as you."Rewrite - The fact that African-American mothers die during childbirth at a rate 3 to 4 times greater than white mothers. In fact, they have a "243% more likely to die from pregnancy- or childbirth-related causes" [ Source] Also - According to the CDC, black mothers in the U.S. are: 22 % more likely to die from heart disease than a white woman 71 % more likely to perish from cervical cancer This is actually horrifying. It's completely systemic as Olan has said. The article I cited is very informative. Accusation 4: "All of that must be okay with you because you've done nothing actionable to change it."I'm pretty sure that none of this is okay with anyone here...we all do what we can to change it in the areas we have access to influence. Accusation 5: "You raised the men that were capable of such violence too."I did not raise any men...I had girls so... Question: "Why is it preferred that I preface everything with some Not all just so you don't feel guilty about what lies at your feet."It's not so we "don't feel guilty" it's for clarity. If you mean white women historically and in general then fucking say so, otherwise you are accusing the white women on this board specifically. Aren't those the ones you're trying to get your message through to? Accusation 6: "54% of white women voted for 45 and I know people hate to equate Republicans with racism but I'm Beyond believing that lie too so let's just call a duck a duck and solve the problem."If you think for one hot second ANY OF THIS would have been solved under Hillary Clinton then you are delusional. NONE OF THIS was taken care of under Pres. Obama - none of it (and he had the best chance possible to address it!). In fact, IT'S EVEN WORSE - and not because the Republicans are in power.
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Apr 18, 2018 23:00:58 GMT
Lots of my unanswered questions*** peppered through this thread most of them dealing with personal responsibility and the unwillingness to acknowledge the truth about your role in racial violence and discrimination. I hope that the next thread I start you will just breeze on by because anything else would be encouraging bad behavior right. If I am not quoting you, I'm not speaking to you. If you feel like I've been dismissive...I must be doing a horrible job at that too. My tooth pain is dulling so I'm going to log off. Keep tackling racism one black woman at a time. I Hate Olan But My Ears Are OpenBet On BlackNo Thank You Required. Follow UsI thought it was really abusive to attack my personal choice of not watching video that shows the victimization of black people. I explained that I believed it was conditioning and functioned much like public lynchings. If you disagree watch Charlottesville killer's mom interviewed. It really is a must watch and a perfect illustration of why the most, not some belief is one I'm going to stick with. ***I know those questions might involve introspection but at least answer the "Imagine if Olan was in charge of implicit bias training" one!?!?!!??!?!!!!! How hilarious would that be to sit in on??!! I promise my run on sentences and word vomit are eloquent in person. Excessive punctuation to model peano WTF outrage.**
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MizIndependent
Drama Llama
Quit your bullpoop.
Posts: 5,836
Jun 25, 2014 19:43:16 GMT
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Post by MizIndependent on Apr 18, 2018 23:28:31 GMT
Lots of my unanswered questions*** peppered through this thread most of them dealing with personal responsibility and the unwillingness to acknowledge the truth about your role in racial violence and discrimination. I have to disagree with you here...most of the unanswered questions I see are the ones unanswered by you. The one you did just mention, "Can you imagine Olan leading implicit bias training?" My apologies for missing that...it looked like a rhetorical question. If you want a serious answer, I'll say you'd probably be great at it. My tooth pain is dulling so I'm going to log off. Sincerely sorry to hear you're in pain. Hope you feel better soon. I thought it was really abusive to attack my personal choice of not watching video that shows the victimization of black people. I explained that I believed it was conditioning and functioned much like public lynchings. If you disagree watch Charlottesville killer's mom interviewed. It really is a must watch and a perfect illustration of why the most, not some belief is one I'm going to stick with. Really wish you'd mentioned this up front in your original post. It would have mitigated A LOT of confusion for everyone down the thread. As it is, you only mentioned it when you were called out on it about 1/3 the way down and you further never clarified your original post so new posters would see it right away. Again, hope you feel better soon, tooth pain really sucks.
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Olan
Pearl Clutcher
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Jul 13, 2014 21:23:27 GMT
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Post by Olan on May 13, 2018 2:15:51 GMT
Another instance where a citizen weaponizes the police against black people. www.newsweek.com/racism-oakland-park-barbecue-california-923492?amp=1And the police manhandle an elderly woman in GA. If you are a Georgia pea your state also made the news when a police officer told a white woman "We only kill black people" abcnews.go.com/amp/US/police-drag-65-year-woman-car-traffic-stop/story?id=55090606In his letter, Legg defended his actions. “I feel I acted appropriately and the way that I was trained when I arrested Ms. Campbell,” he writes. "The officers were ... not able to complete the arrest of [Campbell] as she was still in the vehicle and holding on to the seat belt. I did what was necessary to complete the arrest by raising my voice and using verbal commands using heavy control talk with profanity. It worked instantly and she exited the vehicle immediately!" he wrote. "When the other officers did not immediately restrain and handcuff her, I then freed her from her grasp on the seat belt and she was escorted to the police vehicle. All force ceased and the arrest was now over. "I judged her actions to be passive resistance and used very limited force to end a multiple minute encounter with the suspected," he added.
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Olan
Pearl Clutcher
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Jul 13, 2014 21:23:27 GMT
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Post by Olan on Aug 22, 2018 11:08:26 GMT
If you are constantly being accused of it at some point I think it's important that you consider that sometimes it just might be you. I absolutely have. Olan is Uber introspective hahah. But I also know what my ancestors endured and what women like you are capable of. So I won't allow you to make me think I am bitchy angry bitter etc. I will just give you the space to feel however it is you'd like....just without the participation from me. Agree to disagree. Complete wash. What I think of you doesn't matter. What you think of me doesn't matter. All the best to you. Olan This is what allyship looks like to a majority peas 50offscrapper Have you ever heard the sugar and feces analogy? Read this thread and tell me where I should find community amongst the peas? Like how? Let's not pretend 2peas is welcoming to black women. You guys aren't. Even the "well meaning" liberal peas are problematic. This thread is just one of many too. Click Olan and read the threads I start. The Southwest boarding thread was an easy place to call out racism. Try being the first and only. For the record allyship still looks like a human shield to me. As dangerous as it is to be a black woman thats the only type of friendship I am interested in. My barometer of friendship is high because I'm that caliber of friend. In my circle anything else is called performative allyship.
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Olan
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by Olan on Jan 27, 2021 4:07:37 GMT
WTF?!!! That is the most ridiculous argument for not watching a video which literally shows a white man standing up for the two black men. You are not doing your mission any favors. How are we supposed to take what you say seriously when you refuse consider any possibilities beyond your own agenda. I respect reality; rhetoric not so much. On Sunday, police officers in Seattle shot and killed Charleena Lyles in her home. She died in front of “several children,” according to reports, and her family members say she was pregnant. Just days before, Jeronimo Yanez, the Minnesota police officer who shot and killed Philando Castile during a traffic stop, was acquitted of all charges. Earlier this spring, an unarmed teenager named Jordan Edwards was shot and killed by police as he was driving away from a party. By now, it’s become a sickeningly familiar sequence of events. While the trigger (both literally and metaphorically) is the same, there is an aspect of these events that is frequently overlooked: the effects of the frequent police killings on black Americans’ mental health in the form of racial trauma, a psychological phenomenon that some experts say is similar to post-traumatic stress disorder. “Racial trauma is experiencing psychological symptoms such as anxiety, hypervigilance to threat, or lack of hopefulness for your future as a result of repeated exposure to racism or discrimination,” said Erlanger Turner, an assistant professor of psychology at the University of Houston-Downtown, who is one of only a handful of researchers studying racial trauma. Symptoms can include depression and angry outbursts, much like what is typically seen in those suffering from PTSD. But Turner has observed additional behaviors that are specific to racial trauma, including a reluctance to interact with or general mistrust of white people. Racial trauma can be triggered by many events, but among the most common triggers are continued racial harassment, being a victim of police violence, or witnessing said violence. Even witnessing violence on the news can be damaging. “Research has consistently shown that visual exposure to events can be traumatic,” Turner said. “I particularly believe that the recent news coverage of police shootings of black and brown men will cause some short-time trauma for individuals, especially children. I strongly encourage parents to limit exposure to this type of news coverage.” And yet few researchers are studying the lasting impact of racial trauma. Due to cultural stigma and barriers to care like insurance and jobs that provide time off work, black Americans are substantially less likely to receive mental-health treatment that other ethnic groups. This is particularly problematic because black Americans are 20 percent more likely to suffer from mental illness, according to the National Alliance on Mental Illness. For those who suffer from mental illness, the recycling of brutality and violence on the news may worsen symptoms. Although all negative racial events do not result in trauma, it is important that we are increasingly aware of this topic, and that researchers do more to study its causes and effects. Recently, Science of Us spoke with Turner about his work, and his determination to improve scientific understanding of black mental health. How would you define racial trauma? How new is this concept? Racial trauma or race-related stress is not a new concept. Decades of research have examined the role of racism and discrimination on mental-health functioning. Racial trauma may result from racial harassment, witnessing racial violence, or experiencing institutional racism. The trauma may result in experiencing symptoms of depression, anxiety, low self-esteem, feelings of humiliation, poor concentration, or irritability. How is racial trauma similar to PTSD, and are there any key differences? Similar to PTSD, racial trauma may result in experiencing symptoms of anxiety, hypervigilance, poor concentration, or irritability. The symptoms for both include direct or indirect exposure to a traumatic event. However, the DSM-5 (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders) notes that PTSD is specific to events such as sexual abuse, serious injury, or exposure to actual or threatened death. As you notice, it does not capture events related to cultural background that may result from racism. What are the signs you should consider speaking to a professional about trauma as a person of color? There are some behaviors you should consider when deciding to seek help. I think the most important is answering the question, “Do you have problems getting through your day or functioning at school or work?” If the answer is “yes,” it will be useful to talk to a professional. Other signs to consider if you should seek help include: mood changes (being more irritable, sad, or angry), feeling withdrawn and not wanting to be around those who you previously enjoyed spending time with, or when you begin to engage in more risky health behaviors (such as drinking or smoking). What environmental factors do you believe contribute most to racial trauma? How prevalent do you believe racial trauma is? That’s a hard question. I don’t recall many studies that have examined rates of racial trauma. Additionally, there is so much continued racism either directly or indirectly it’s hard to recover from one incident before another occurs. Furthermore, not everyone who encounters racial discrimination will experience racial trauma. For example, with the increased media coverage of police brutality in the past few years it has potentially led to increases in trauma or stress. This research is still emerging. However, a recent study was published in April that found police and law-enforcement stress is associated with racial discrimination and depression symptoms among black men. What has your research informed you is most important to keep in mind with racial trauma? Again, not every incident of racism will result in racial trauma. The research shows that those who directly witness police violence or are continually exposed to violent images are at a higher risk of trauma than those who witness others. It’s important for providers and psychologists to assess how the experience has affected the individual. What do you hope to discover next? Currently my research lab is working on a study to look at factors that hinder and promote the use of mental-health services among black Americans. My hope is that the research can help us to better understand stigma, identify ways in which providers can improve their client-therapist relationship, and improve providers ability to engage in cultural competency. I see your current research projects study cultural factors that either promote seeking help or attitudes that limit seeking care. Can you tell us a little about those projects? My current research focuses on mental health among Latino and black Americans. I recently published a paper with a colleague at Santa Clara University on the impact of therapy fears, ethnicity identity, and spirituality on the use of mental-health service among Latino college students. This project will also be exploring these variables among black Americans. Preliminary findings show that religion and spirituality are important to black Americans. These strong spiritual beliefs may also decrease decisions to seek treatment. What do you believe is the most groundbreaking finding you have come across in your time as a researcher? Over the past ten years, my research has focused on access to mental-health treatment. The research consistently shows that a positive attitude is associated with seeking treatment. However, some of my early work found that positive attitudes predicted help-seeking for whites, but not for black Americans. In a recent study that I published with four of my former undergraduate students, we found that fears about therapy was a more important barrier to treatment for ethnic minorities such as black Americans. Specifically, the more people have concerns about being respected by the therapist, working with a competent provider, or having values different than the therapist it increased the likelihood that they will avoid treatment. It really highlights the importance that other things beside stigma impact the use of treatment. We really need to make sure that therapists are engaging in cultural humility. Do you have advice for people of color, in terms of seeking mental-health help? My advice is that if you feel stressed or have difficulty getting through life you should consider meeting with a psychologist or behavioral-health provider. If religion or spirituality are an important aspect of your life it is appropriate and perfectly okay to ask the provider if they can incorporate your values into treatment. This will help you make the decision of whether that is the person you want to work with to address your concerns. Going to therapy should be a mutual relationship and it is my view that providers should collaborate with their clients. Racial Trauma www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/opinion-miller-stephon-clark-police-shooting_us_5ac9b1e0e4b09d0a11948591Black people are expected to take abuse with such grace and when we do our allies awards us "one of the good ones" medals. A white man should have flexed his ultimate position of power and stood between the police and the innocent black men. I am okay if no one else agrees with this method of allyship. But I think if we examine historically the role white people played in racial violence/Civil Rights Movement you'd all be sitting on the actionable change bench with me. I explained why I haven't watched the video. If someone physically stood between and intervened then at the very least the patrons did the right thing. I'm not professing to know what did or did not happen. I'm only sharing what I think should have happened. For black people, police videos are moments of trauma, continual reaffirmations of a reality that we live every day: Our lives do not matter. For white people, they become data points to analyze and critique in order to prove black guilt. As I was trying to explain to you what racial trauma was I was experiencing it. When I look at how disrespectful peano was to me and how respectfully I responded. The audacity you have pretending you tried to hear me out or engage in meaningful dialogue! Like look at this shit? Any link I’ve shared here I likely read it myself. Many times when you were learning about America’s shitty past. So was I. The 1776 Project was very much a thing when I went through school. I was traumatizing myself by trying to educate a bunch of women who have more resources and time than I do. Today I learned that the wives of plantations owners were complicit not by just turning a blind eye but actually instructing their husband to rape and impregnate an enslaved African so that their children would be born around the same time. A lactating woman who can’t nourish her own child (a product of rape) or love a man of her choosing. And to know another woman thought that should be her fate. That was my history lesson for today. If you said something hurtful in this thread AND you liked peano “apology” may my ancestors visit your dreams and share their personal stories with you. Restorative sleep is for the atoning. That’s my wish for you.
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Post by LiLi on Jan 27, 2021 5:14:09 GMT
I haven't watched a full video because I think watching the videos of black men being killed on dash cam or arrested for simply existing is a way of conditioning us to accept this treatment. I know people complain because it seems I am always screaming "do more" when really black Americans are actually saying do something, anything. No one has time for ineffectiveness when it's life or death. Actionable change. Also stop calling the police. How many of you will join black Americans in boycotting Starbucks? WTF?!!! That is the most ridiculous argument for not watching a video which literally shows a white man standing up for the two black men. You are not doing your mission any favors. How are we supposed to take what you say seriously when you refuse consider any possibilities beyond your own agenda. I respect reality; rhetoric not so much. Olan and other black women here on the board who may have been hurt by this- I'm sorry, I'm really sorry! I literally gasped when I read this and I'm crying. I will try to speak up, I admit I am usually too scared and don't feel eloquent enough to speak up. I will try harder. 🥺😭 I am sure the rest of this thread isn't any better, but I am compelled to mention this right now. Off to finish the thread.
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Olan
Pearl Clutcher
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Jul 13, 2014 21:23:27 GMT
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Post by Olan on Jan 27, 2021 13:54:54 GMT
WTF?!!! That is the most ridiculous argument for not watching a video which literally shows a white man standing up for the two black men. You are not doing your mission any favors. How are we supposed to take what you say seriously when you refuse consider any possibilities beyond your own agenda. I respect reality; rhetoric not so much. Olan and other black women here on the board who may have been hurt by this- I'm sorry, I'm really sorry! I literally gasped when I read this and I'm crying. I will try to speak up, I admit I am usually too scared and don't feel eloquent enough to speak up. I will try harder. 🥺😭 I am sure the rest of this thread isn't any better, but I am compelled to mention this right now. Off to finish the thread. Thank you LiLi. This thread was a difficult read for me too. I remember the head space I was in and what was going on in the world. It is a very accurate picture of how much pushback I received in every thread I started and how gracious my response was despite what Black people were experiencing. 2peas isn’t for the faint at heart but the cruel way in which people were allowed to engage with me completely unchecked should let everyone know how Black women are treated whenever they use their voices. Imagine if it was a teenage Black girl in the classroom who called out peano 1776 remix of history?
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