Olan
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Post by Olan on Apr 16, 2018 3:04:27 GMT
It looks like Starbucks and the Philadelphia Police Department are going to go back and forth about who is at fault. Meanwhile, not one patron stood between the police and the innocent black men. Imagine how much dignity you lose when you are walked out in cuffs for simply existing. "The basis for the call to the Philadelphia police department was wrong," he said. "Our store manager never intended for these men to be arrested and this should never have escalated as it did." Starbucks
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pilcas
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Post by pilcas on Apr 16, 2018 3:06:47 GMT
In the video I do hear voices in the background saying that they didn’t do anything wrong. Police ignoring all.
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Post by andreasmom on Apr 16, 2018 3:07:53 GMT
I don’t understand why the police were called or why the police overreacted. I know, i know. But still. No matter who blames who, it was just plain wrong.
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Apr 16, 2018 3:29:37 GMT
In the video I do hear voices in the background saying that they didn’t do anything wrong. Police ignoring all. Police Brutality History
Yes I hear the background voices and read the account by the woman on Twitter. This really is a life or death situation. White people need to stand up. This should not be happening. Meanwhile Colin Kaepernick can't get a job.
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tracylynn
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Post by tracylynn on Apr 16, 2018 4:02:08 GMT
In the video I do hear voices in the background saying that they didn’t do anything wrong. Police ignoring all. Police Brutality History
Yes I hear the background voices and read the account by the woman on Twitter. This really is a life or death situation. White people need to stand up. This should not be happening. Meanwhile Colin Kaepernick can't get a job. Colin Kaepernick wants too much money for the role he's going to play. He's not a starting QB right now, he's a backup. He wants starter money. Do I think some teams/owners aren't having him out because of the kneeling thing? Yes, of course I do, and it's bullshit. The article you link to talks about Seattle - we had him out before the previous season to work out and money was too high. I'm not sure why people are reporting we canceled a work out this month for the the kneeling thing. Most of our D-Line kneeled last year during all games and our Coach, GM and Owner supported them. I suspect he wants more money than Seattle is willing to pay a backup QB - after all, we have a franchise starting QB. Frankly, I think Kaep would be a good fit for our team, but I know that the salary cap is tight again this year. Seattle has never been afraid of controversy in their signings.
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Apr 16, 2018 13:49:55 GMT
Police Brutality History
Yes I hear the background voices and read the account by the woman on Twitter. This really is a life or death situation. White people need to stand up. This should not be happening. Meanwhile Colin Kaepernick can't get a job. Colin Kaepernick wants too much money for the role he's going to play. He's not a starting QB right now, he's a backup. He wants starter money. Do I think some teams/owners aren't having him out because of the kneeling thing? Yes, of course I do, and it's bullshit. The article you link to talks about Seattle - we had him out before the previous season to work out and money was too high. I'm not sure why people are reporting we canceled a work out this month for the the kneeling thing. Most of our D-Line kneeled last year during all games and our Coach, GM and Owner supported them. I suspect he wants more money than Seattle is willing to pay a backup QB - after all, we have a franchise starting QB. Frankly, I think Kaep would be a good fit for our team, but I know that the salary cap is tight again this year. Seattle has never been afraid of controversy in their signings. Thanks for weighing in. Have a good week
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muggins
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Post by muggins on Apr 16, 2018 13:52:33 GMT
In the video I saw, there was a white guy literally standing up for them telling the police officers repeatedly that the two guys didn’t do anything. What should he have done instead?
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Apr 16, 2018 14:08:11 GMT
In the video I saw, there was a white guy literally standing up for them telling the police officers repeatedly that the two guys didn’t do anything. What should he have done instead? I haven't watched a full video because I think watching the videos of black men being killed on dash cam or arrested for simply existing is a way of conditioning us to accept this treatment. I know people complain because it seems I am always screaming "do more" when really black Americans are actually saying do something, anything. No one has time for ineffectiveness when it's life or death. Actionable change. Also stop calling the police. How many of you will join black Americans in boycotting Starbucks?
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Post by beachbum on Apr 16, 2018 14:19:46 GMT
I would love to hear the 911 tape - why in the hell did they call in the first place, and what did they think would happen? Wrong, just wrong in so many ways.
No Starbucks for me.
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rickmer
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Post by rickmer on Apr 16, 2018 14:26:59 GMT
BOTH organizations should tripping over each other apologize, not blaming each other.
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Post by bc2ca on Apr 16, 2018 14:32:11 GMT
It looks like Starbucks and the Philadelphia Police Department are going to go back and forth about who is at fault. Meanwhile, not one patron stood between the police and the innocent black men. Imagine how much dignity you lose when you are walked out in cuffs for simply existing. "The basis for the call to the Philadelphia police department was wrong," he said. "Our store manager never intended for these men to be arrested and this should never have escalated as it did." Starbucks
What the hell did the story manager think would happen when the police were called? I have gone into Starbucks just to use the bathroom and have never been refused a token/key if one was needed or told I need to place an order first.
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Post by Really Red on Apr 16, 2018 14:39:19 GMT
This is so wrong I cannot even say. From beginning to end it is horrific. But if people had inserted themselves between the police officers and the men, there would have been a lot more problems. And then, I promise you Olan people would have blamed someone incorrectly. As it is, this is about as clear a picture of what's wrong in the country today. It is outrageous. You heard many people being outraged at Starbucks about it. It was filmed, there were critiques at the officers (who were in an awful position - I'm not sure where the law stands when a proprietor says someone is trespassing and those people refuse to move - and I'm not saying the men were wrong, just stating the facts here) and there are demonstrations at Starbucks. The whole country is outraged that this is happening. And the biggest outrage is that everyone was so well behaved and not causing problems and it STILL happened. Every time there is a black person shot by a police officer you hear people saying "but the guy was doing something wrong" or "he had a criminal record" or "he didn't stop when the police told him to" and this time NONE of that occurred. It does not make it better or worse, but it makes it so damn clear what terrible conditions black men are forced to face day in and day out. Seriously? This is maybe the best thing that could have happened to make things clear that this problem is insidious and NOT just about poor black criminals.
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Apr 16, 2018 15:06:36 GMT
And the biggest outrage is that everyone was so well behaved and not causing problems and it STILL happened.
Black people are expected to take abuse with such grace and when we do our allies awards us "one of the good ones" medals. A white man should have flexed his ultimate position of power and stood between the police and the innocent black men. I am okay if no one else agrees with this method of allyship. But I think if we examine historically the role white people played in racial violence/Civil Rights Movement you'd all be sitting on the actionable change bench with me.
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muggins
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Post by muggins on Apr 16, 2018 15:18:06 GMT
And the biggest outrage is that everyone was so well behaved and not causing problems and it STILL happened. Black people are expected to take abuse with such grace and when we do our allies awards us "one of the good ones" medals. A white man should have flexed his ultimate position of power and stood between the police and the innocent black men. I am okay if no one else agrees with this method of allyship. But I think if we examine historically the role white people played in racial violence/Civil Rights Movement you'd all be sitting on the actionable change bench with me. You really need to watch the video rather than keep making the same request. A white man literally stood up and defended them. There was also a black police officer there - what should he have done?
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Apr 16, 2018 15:38:21 GMT
And the biggest outrage is that everyone was so well behaved and not causing problems and it STILL happened. Black people are expected to take abuse with such grace and when we do our allies awards us "one of the good ones" medals. A white man should have flexed his ultimate position of power and stood between the police and the innocent black men. I am okay if no one else agrees with this method of allyship. But I think if we examine historically the role white people played in racial violence/Civil Rights Movement you'd all be sitting on the actionable change bench with me. You really need to watch the video rather than keep making the same request. A white man literally stood up and defended them. There was also a black police officer there - what should he have done? I explained why I haven't watched the video. If someone physically stood between and intervened then at the very least the patrons did the right thing. I'm not professing to know what did or did not happen. I'm only sharing what I think should have happened. Regarding the black police officer and police chief...even during slavery white people used other black people to carry out the harshest tasks of "breaking" enslaved Africans so historically this is to be expected. You asked what they should have done as if I may have had a different set of expectations for black people. I don't. Right is right. Wrong is wrong.
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ginacivey
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Post by ginacivey on Apr 16, 2018 15:41:53 GMT
You really need to watch the video rather than keep making the same request. A white man literally stood up and defended them. There was also a black police officer there - what should he have done? I explained why I haven't watched the video. If someone physically stood between and intervened then at the very least the patrons did the right thing. I'm not professing to know what did or did not happen. I'm only sharing what I think should have happened. Regarding the black police officer and police chief...even during slavery white people used other black people to carry out the harshest tasks of "breaking" enslaved Africans so historically this is to be expected. You asked what they should have done as if I may have had a different set of expectations for black people. I don't. Right is right. Wrong is wrong. CNN
i just stumbled on that quote - i'm actually reading to see how long they were there when the manager made the call not that it excuses it but i'm curious gina
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Post by peano on Apr 16, 2018 15:47:01 GMT
It looks like Starbucks and the Philadelphia Police Department are going to go back and forth about who is at fault. Meanwhile, not one patron stood between the police and the innocent black men. Imagine how much dignity you lose when you are walked out in cuffs for simply existing. "The basis for the call to the Philadelphia police department was wrong," he said. "Our store manager never intended for these men to be arrested and this should never have escalated as it did." Starbucks
link to video Your statement I bolded is not true. The man they were waiting to meet, Andrew Yaffe, can be heard saying to the police in one of the videos shot, "Just like anyone else they're allowed to be here." He then says to the police, "You can't discriminate." He then says, "They've been here a million times with me." He then turns, gestures around the room and says something like, "Does anybody else think this is discrimination?"
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Apr 16, 2018 15:58:57 GMT
It looks like Starbucks and the Philadelphia Police Department are going to go back and forth about who is at fault. Meanwhile, not one patron stood between the police and the innocent black men. Imagine how much dignity you lose when you are walked out in cuffs for simply existing. "The basis for the call to the Philadelphia police department was wrong," he said. "Our store manager never intended for these men to be arrested and this should never have escalated as it did." Starbucks
link to video Your statement I bolded is not true. The man they were waiting to meet, Andrew Yaffe, can be heard saying to the police in one of the videos shot, "Just like anyone else they're allowed to be here." He then says to the police, "You can't discriminate." He then says, "They've been here a million times with me." He then turns, gestures around the room and says something like, "Does anybody else think this is discrimination?" He spoke up. It is my personal opinion that patrons should have physically stood between the police officer and innocent black men. Keep in mind no one has to agree with me. I'm just sharing with you what allyship actually looks like to me.
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Post by peano on Apr 16, 2018 16:00:15 GMT
In the video I saw, there was a white guy literally standing up for them telling the police officers repeatedly that the two guys didn’t do anything. What should he have done instead? I haven't watched a full video because I think watching the videos of black men being killed on dash cam or arrested for simply existing is a way of conditioning us to accept this treatment. I know people complain because it seems I am always screaming "do more" when really black Americans are actually saying do something, anything. No one has time for ineffectiveness when it's life or death. Actionable change. Also stop calling the police. How many of you will join black Americans in boycotting Starbucks? WTF?!!! That is the most ridiculous argument for not watching a video which literally shows a white man standing up for the two black men. You are not doing your mission any favors. How are we supposed to take what you say seriously when you refuse consider any possibilities beyond your own agenda. I respect reality; rhetoric not so much. Just so I'm on the record, I have done what those two men have done a gazillion times--used the bathroom at Starbucks before ordering, waiting on the person I'm meeting before ordering, sitting at a table before ordering. The Starbucks employee who called the police was totally, utterly, completely at fault and that was inexcusable to do to patrons who were just sitting there.
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Apr 16, 2018 16:05:32 GMT
WTF?!!! That is the most ridiculous argument for not watching a video which literally shows a white man standing up for the two black men. You are not doing your mission any favors. How are we supposed to take what you say seriously when you refuse consider any possibilities beyond your own agenda. I respect reality; rhetoric not so much. On Sunday, police officers in Seattle shot and killed Charleena Lyles in her home. She died in front of “several children,” according to reports, and her family members say she was pregnant. Just days before, Jeronimo Yanez, the Minnesota police officer who shot and killed Philando Castile during a traffic stop, was acquitted of all charges. Earlier this spring, an unarmed teenager named Jordan Edwards was shot and killed by police as he was driving away from a party. By now, it’s become a sickeningly familiar sequence of events. While the trigger (both literally and metaphorically) is the same, there is an aspect of these events that is frequently overlooked: the effects of the frequent police killings on black Americans’ mental health in the form of racial trauma, a psychological phenomenon that some experts say is similar to post-traumatic stress disorder. “Racial trauma is experiencing psychological symptoms such as anxiety, hypervigilance to threat, or lack of hopefulness for your future as a result of repeated exposure to racism or discrimination,” said Erlanger Turner, an assistant professor of psychology at the University of Houston-Downtown, who is one of only a handful of researchers studying racial trauma. Symptoms can include depression and angry outbursts, much like what is typically seen in those suffering from PTSD. But Turner has observed additional behaviors that are specific to racial trauma, including a reluctance to interact with or general mistrust of white people. Racial trauma can be triggered by many events, but among the most common triggers are continued racial harassment, being a victim of police violence, or witnessing said violence. Even witnessing violence on the news can be damaging. “Research has consistently shown that visual exposure to events can be traumatic,” Turner said. “I particularly believe that the recent news coverage of police shootings of black and brown men will cause some short-time trauma for individuals, especially children. I strongly encourage parents to limit exposure to this type of news coverage.” And yet few researchers are studying the lasting impact of racial trauma. Due to cultural stigma and barriers to care like insurance and jobs that provide time off work, black Americans are substantially less likely to receive mental-health treatment that other ethnic groups. This is particularly problematic because black Americans are 20 percent more likely to suffer from mental illness, according to the National Alliance on Mental Illness. For those who suffer from mental illness, the recycling of brutality and violence on the news may worsen symptoms. Although all negative racial events do not result in trauma, it is important that we are increasingly aware of this topic, and that researchers do more to study its causes and effects. Recently, Science of Us spoke with Turner about his work, and his determination to improve scientific understanding of black mental health. How would you define racial trauma? How new is this concept? Racial trauma or race-related stress is not a new concept. Decades of research have examined the role of racism and discrimination on mental-health functioning. Racial trauma may result from racial harassment, witnessing racial violence, or experiencing institutional racism. The trauma may result in experiencing symptoms of depression, anxiety, low self-esteem, feelings of humiliation, poor concentration, or irritability. How is racial trauma similar to PTSD, and are there any key differences? Similar to PTSD, racial trauma may result in experiencing symptoms of anxiety, hypervigilance, poor concentration, or irritability. The symptoms for both include direct or indirect exposure to a traumatic event. However, the DSM-5 (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders) notes that PTSD is specific to events such as sexual abuse, serious injury, or exposure to actual or threatened death. As you notice, it does not capture events related to cultural background that may result from racism. What are the signs you should consider speaking to a professional about trauma as a person of color? There are some behaviors you should consider when deciding to seek help. I think the most important is answering the question, “Do you have problems getting through your day or functioning at school or work?” If the answer is “yes,” it will be useful to talk to a professional. Other signs to consider if you should seek help include: mood changes (being more irritable, sad, or angry), feeling withdrawn and not wanting to be around those who you previously enjoyed spending time with, or when you begin to engage in more risky health behaviors (such as drinking or smoking). What environmental factors do you believe contribute most to racial trauma? How prevalent do you believe racial trauma is? That’s a hard question. I don’t recall many studies that have examined rates of racial trauma. Additionally, there is so much continued racism either directly or indirectly it’s hard to recover from one incident before another occurs. Furthermore, not everyone who encounters racial discrimination will experience racial trauma. For example, with the increased media coverage of police brutality in the past few years it has potentially led to increases in trauma or stress. This research is still emerging. However, a recent study was published in April that found police and law-enforcement stress is associated with racial discrimination and depression symptoms among black men. What has your research informed you is most important to keep in mind with racial trauma? Again, not every incident of racism will result in racial trauma. The research shows that those who directly witness police violence or are continually exposed to violent images are at a higher risk of trauma than those who witness others. It’s important for providers and psychologists to assess how the experience has affected the individual. What do you hope to discover next? Currently my research lab is working on a study to look at factors that hinder and promote the use of mental-health services among black Americans. My hope is that the research can help us to better understand stigma, identify ways in which providers can improve their client-therapist relationship, and improve providers ability to engage in cultural competency. I see your current research projects study cultural factors that either promote seeking help or attitudes that limit seeking care. Can you tell us a little about those projects? My current research focuses on mental health among Latino and black Americans. I recently published a paper with a colleague at Santa Clara University on the impact of therapy fears, ethnicity identity, and spirituality on the use of mental-health service among Latino college students. This project will also be exploring these variables among black Americans. Preliminary findings show that religion and spirituality are important to black Americans. These strong spiritual beliefs may also decrease decisions to seek treatment. What do you believe is the most groundbreaking finding you have come across in your time as a researcher? Over the past ten years, my research has focused on access to mental-health treatment. The research consistently shows that a positive attitude is associated with seeking treatment. However, some of my early work found that positive attitudes predicted help-seeking for whites, but not for black Americans. In a recent study that I published with four of my former undergraduate students, we found that fears about therapy was a more important barrier to treatment for ethnic minorities such as black Americans. Specifically, the more people have concerns about being respected by the therapist, working with a competent provider, or having values different than the therapist it increased the likelihood that they will avoid treatment. It really highlights the importance that other things beside stigma impact the use of treatment. We really need to make sure that therapists are engaging in cultural humility. Do you have advice for people of color, in terms of seeking mental-health help? My advice is that if you feel stressed or have difficulty getting through life you should consider meeting with a psychologist or behavioral-health provider. If religion or spirituality are an important aspect of your life it is appropriate and perfectly okay to ask the provider if they can incorporate your values into treatment. This will help you make the decision of whether that is the person you want to work with to address your concerns. Going to therapy should be a mutual relationship and it is my view that providers should collaborate with their clients. Racial Trauma www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/opinion-miller-stephon-clark-police-shooting_us_5ac9b1e0e4b09d0a11948591Black people are expected to take abuse with such grace and when we do our allies awards us "one of the good ones" medals. A white man should have flexed his ultimate position of power and stood between the police and the innocent black men. I am okay if no one else agrees with this method of allyship. But I think if we examine historically the role white people played in racial violence/Civil Rights Movement you'd all be sitting on the actionable change bench with me. I explained why I haven't watched the video. If someone physically stood between and intervened then at the very least the patrons did the right thing. I'm not professing to know what did or did not happen. I'm only sharing what I think should have happened. For black people, police videos are moments of trauma, continual reaffirmations of a reality that we live every day: Our lives do not matter. For white people, they become data points to analyze and critique in order to prove black guilt.
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Apr 16, 2018 16:20:26 GMT
"For black people, police videos are moments of trauma, continual reaffirmations of a reality that we live every day: Our lives do not matter. For white people, they become data points to analyze and critique in order to prove black guilt.
These videos function much like lynchings. They show black people that their lives are at the mercy of whiteness and that their bodies are acceptable targets of violence. And they remind black people that in a culture that celebrates whiteness and demonizes blackness, we can watch black death over and over again, ignoring that every slaughtered black person was just that: a person. A person with a family and a backstory. These were people who went to school, fell in love, had hobbies and pursued dreams. Police videos of violence against black bodies serve as a warning of what the state can do ― and get away with, even when it’s caught on tape.
Videos are helpful tools for criminal proceedings and they help us see the often ugly truth of interactions between black people and the police. In a culture steeped in white supremacy that historically takes the life or wellbeing of black people with impunity, I choose to step away from the trauma of watching videos of extrajudicial killings. Those videos show me what I already know: that America doesn’t believe my life matters."
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Post by missmiss on Apr 16, 2018 16:50:59 GMT
Police Brutality History
Yes I hear the background voices and read the account by the woman on Twitter. This really is a life or death situation. White people need to stand up. This should not be happening. Meanwhile Colin Kaepernick can't get a job. Colin Kaepernick wants too much money for the role he's going to play. He's not a starting QB right now, he's a backup. He wants starter money. Do I think some teams/owners aren't having him out because of the kneeling thing? Yes, of course I do, and it's bullshit. The article you link to talks about Seattle - we had him out before the previous season to work out and money was too high. I'm not sure why people are reporting we canceled a work out this month for the the kneeling thing. Most of our D-Line kneeled last year during all games and our Coach, GM and Owner supported them. I suspect he wants more money than Seattle is willing to pay a backup QB - after all, we have a franchise starting QB. Frankly, I think Kaep would be a good fit for our team, but I know that the salary cap is tight again this year. Seattle has never been afraid of controversy in their signings. He wants more money than Seattle is willing to pay? Why would Seattle tell Kap to come for a workout and then when he says he may not give up kneeling Seattle cancels the workout? I doubt that has to do with pay. Just saying.
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tracylynn
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Post by tracylynn on Apr 16, 2018 17:29:26 GMT
Colin Kaepernick wants too much money for the role he's going to play. He's not a starting QB right now, he's a backup. He wants starter money. Do I think some teams/owners aren't having him out because of the kneeling thing? Yes, of course I do, and it's bullshit. The article you link to talks about Seattle - we had him out before the previous season to work out and money was too high. I'm not sure why people are reporting we canceled a work out this month for the the kneeling thing. Most of our D-Line kneeled last year during all games and our Coach, GM and Owner supported them. I suspect he wants more money than Seattle is willing to pay a backup QB - after all, we have a franchise starting QB. Frankly, I think Kaep would be a good fit for our team, but I know that the salary cap is tight again this year. Seattle has never been afraid of controversy in their signings. He wants more money than Seattle is willing to pay? Why would Seattle tell Kap to come for a workout and then when he says he may not give up kneeling Seattle cancels the workout? I doubt that has to do with pay. Just saying. Yes, he wants paid like he was paid before when he was a starter. With Seattle he would not a starter, therefore they are not willing to pay what he's asking. As far as what was asked - they didn't ask if he was going to continue to kneel. They asked what his long term plan going forward was in regards on how to deal with all of this and he did not have one. The National Media is reporting that it's because of the kneeling. The Local Media (Ian Rapoport) actually reported the crux of the issue. Seattle front office is not opposed to kneeling - a part or most of our defensive line kneeled in every game in 2017 with support from the Coach, GM and Owner. Seattle PI story
Now let me be clear - there are a lot of teams who are refusing to meet with him because of the kneeling no doubt. But I don't believe Seattle is one of them based on their previous reactions in regards to kneeling and protesting. They put out more than one statement last year in regards to fully supporting their players and what they are fighting for. If you're not local to this team and city, you might not know that.
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Post by peano on Apr 16, 2018 17:44:09 GMT
"For black people, police videos are moments of trauma, continual reaffirmations of a reality that we live every day: Our lives do not matter. For white people, they become data points to analyze and critique in order to prove black guilt. These videos function much like lynchings. They show black people that their lives are at the mercy of whiteness and that their bodies are acceptable targets of violence. And they remind black people that in a culture that celebrates whiteness and demonizes blackness, we can watch black death over and over again, ignoring that every slaughtered black person was just that: a person. A person with a family and a backstory. These were people who went to school, fell in love, had hobbies and pursued dreams. Police videos of violence against black bodies serve as a warning of what the state can do ― and get away with, even when it’s caught on tape. Videos are helpful tools for criminal proceedings and they help us see the often ugly truth of interactions between black people and the police. In a culture steeped in white supremacy that historically takes the life or wellbeing of black people with impunity, I choose to step away from the trauma of watching videos of extrajudicial killings. Those videos show me what I already know: that America doesn’t believe my life matters." Olan, the video I linked was not a police video, it was one of apparently many shot by Starbucks patrons. Also, I personally quoted what I heard Andrew Yaffe say in support of the black men in the video. There was no violence in the video. You spend so much time here trying to bring awareness to people in the hopes of creating change in race relations. I assume that Andrew Yaffe's defense of his friends is what you'd like to see more of. If that's really the case, I'd think you would be encouraged to see a little forward motion, rather than complaining that he didn't do enough, AND refusing to watch the video.
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muggins
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Post by muggins on Apr 16, 2018 17:47:52 GMT
link to video Your statement I bolded is not true. The man they were waiting to meet, Andrew Yaffe, can be heard saying to the police in one of the videos shot, "Just like anyone else they're allowed to be here." He then says to the police, "You can't discriminate." He then says, "They've been here a million times with me." He then turns, gestures around the room and says something like, "Does anybody else think this is discrimination?" He spoke up. It is my personal opinion that patrons should have physically stood between the police officer and innocent black men. Keep in mind no one has to agree with me. I'm just sharing with you what allyship actually looks like to me. Do you think the outcome of the men being cuffed and escorted out of the premises would have been different had the white man physically blocked the police rather than arguing their case from the side?
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Apr 16, 2018 17:53:06 GMT
"For black people, police videos are moments of trauma, continual reaffirmations of a reality that we live every day: Our lives do not matter. For white people, they become data points to analyze and critique in order to prove black guilt. These videos function much like lynchings. They show black people that their lives are at the mercy of whiteness and that their bodies are acceptable targets of violence. And they remind black people that in a culture that celebrates whiteness and demonizes blackness, we can watch black death over and over again, ignoring that every slaughtered black person was just that: a person. A person with a family and a backstory. These were people who went to school, fell in love, had hobbies and pursued dreams. Police videos of violence against black bodies serve as a warning of what the state can do ― and get away with, even when it’s caught on tape. Videos are helpful tools for criminal proceedings and they help us see the often ugly truth of interactions between black people and the police. In a culture steeped in white supremacy that historically takes the life or wellbeing of black people with impunity, I choose to step away from the trauma of watching videos of extrajudicial killings. Those videos show me what I already know: that America doesn’t believe my life matters." Olan, the video I linked was not a police video, it was one of apparently many shot by Starbucks patrons. Also, I personally quoted what I heard Andrew Yaffe say in support of the black men in the video. There was no violence in the video. You spend so much time here trying to bring awareness to people in the hopes of creating change in race relations. I assume that Andrew Yaffe's defense of his friends is what you'd like to see more of. If that's really the case, I'd think you would be encouraged to see a little forward motion, rather than complaining that he didn't do enough, AND refusing to watch the video. I've already explained how I feel and why I won't be watching the videos. You don't respect my choice and got all WTF?!!!! dramatic which is perfectly fine by pea standards. I'm hearing you say you disagree with me about my personal choice to not watch the victimization of black men by white management weaponizing the police AND my personal opinion about what allyship looks like. It doesn't look like someone speaking up or motioning to dozens of other people to intervene while I am walked away in handcuffs Derek Chauvin judge agrees with White women that witnessing racial violence isn’t traumatizing. peano is an educator. One who probably has opinions about Critical Race Theory despite proving how little she knows about chattel slavery. This is what systemic racism looks like. Underserving people placed in positions of power. www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/judge-denies-request-change-trauma-wording-chauvin-memo-n1273836
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Olan
Pearl Clutcher
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Posts: 4,053
Jul 13, 2014 21:23:27 GMT
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Post by Olan on Apr 16, 2018 17:58:33 GMT
He spoke up. It is my personal opinion that patrons should have physically stood between the police officer and innocent black men. Keep in mind no one has to agree with me. I'm just sharing with you what allyship actually looks like to me. Do you think the outcome of the men being cuffed and escorted out of the premises would have been different had the white man physically blocked the police rather than arguing their case from the side? I believe the white men would have just been arrested as well. What do you think allyship would have looked like in this case? In the past how have white people helped black people fight for Civil Rights? In 20 years do you think society will look back on what's happening now and think they did "enough" to prevent the continued mistreatment of black bodies?
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Post by dewryce on Apr 16, 2018 18:04:42 GMT
I've been thinking about how I would have reacted, and what you said about physically putting yourself between the men and the police. It is my understanding that your opinion is due to the potential for police brutality and I understand and support that concern. But I'm wondering, in this specific situation where everyone involved is calm, how you see someone else physically inserting themselves into it would play out. Personally, experience tells me that has a huge potential to escalate the emotions and situation and make things worse.
I've read about a couple of situations where single women are pulled over by police and another woman stopped to witness for them and it's really had me thinking about what I can do to help others in similar situations. In this case, I think that if they didn't take names and statements from people I would have gone to the station to make sure the victims were represented by witnesses. But I wouldn't have done anything to escalate a calm situation by putting myself between them.
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Post by peano on Apr 16, 2018 18:06:26 GMT
Olan, the video I linked was not a police video, it was one of apparently many shot by Starbucks patrons. Also, I personally quoted what I heard Andrew Yaffe say in support of the black men in the video. There was no violence in the video. You spend so much time here trying to bring awareness to people in the hopes of creating change in race relations. I assume that Andrew Yaffe's defense of his friends is what you'd like to see more of. If that's really the case, I'd think you would be encouraged to see a little forward motion, rather than complaining that he didn't do enough, AND refusing to watch the video. I've already explained how I feel and why I won't be watching the videos. You don't respect my choice and got all WTF?!!!! dramatic which is perfectly fine by pea standards. I'm hearing you say you disagree with me about my personal choice to not watch the victimization of black men by white management weaponizing the police AND my personal opinion about what allyship looks like. It doesn't look like someone speaking up or motioning to dozens of other people to intervene while I am walked away in handcuffs Well, you really have no idea what it looks like because you won't watch the video. Your option, of course, but it gives me little incentive to listen to what you have to say.
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Post by peano on Apr 16, 2018 18:09:22 GMT
I've been thinking about how I would have reacted, and what you said about physically putting yourself between the men and the police. It is my understanding that your opinion is due to the potential for police brutality and I understand and support that concern. But I'm wondering, in this specific situation where everyone involved is calm, how you see someone else physically inserting themselves into it would play out. Personally, experience tells me that has a huge potential to escalate the emotions and situation and make things worse. I've read about a couple of situations where single women are pulled over by police and another woman stopped to witness for them and it's really had me thinking about what I can do to help others in similar situations. In this case, I think that if they didn't take names and statements from people I would have gone to the station to make sure the victims were represented by witnesses. But I wouldn't have done anything to escalate a calm situation by putting myself between them. I agree, and furthermore, their friend who spoke out against their treatment may have been trying to preserve what little of their dignity was left by not drawing even more attention to the situation.
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