|
Post by mom on Jun 18, 2018 19:46:39 GMT
Have we discussed the separating of children from their parents? I know this is a hot topic here- I'm sure it will be, anyway but I haven't read the other political threads-but where does everyone stand on it?
I am all for border security and enforcing the laws that are on the books. I am against ILLEGAL immigration, 100%. But I cannot support separating parents from their children. The long term consequences are outweighing any benefit that come from doing this.
|
|
|
Post by #notLauren on Jun 18, 2018 19:48:59 GMT
|
|
|
Post by mom on Jun 18, 2018 19:49:23 GMT
I haven't but I will. SaveSave
|
|
MizIndependent
Drama Llama
Quit your bullpoop.
Posts: 5,836
Jun 25, 2014 19:43:16 GMT
|
Post by MizIndependent on Jun 18, 2018 20:00:29 GMT
I find it interesting that the media is treating this whole "child separation" immigration issue as if Trump thought it up and implemented it last month. That's just not the case. It was in fact a bipartisan bill sponsered by Howard Berman (D-CA) co-sponsored by Republicans "Jeff Fortenberry of Nebraska, Ileana Ros-Lehtinen of Florida and Chris Smith of New Jersey. It was also co-sponsored by Democrats John Conyers of Michigan, Zoe Lofgren of California, and Bobby Scott of Virginia." [ Source: HuffPo "How a Bush-Era Law Led to Central American Immigration".] It was signed by George W. on 23DEC2008.
|
|
|
Post by mom on Jun 18, 2018 20:01:38 GMT
Ok, I've read the article. I completely understand that this isn't Trump's making and this was in place before he was elected. BUT ---- We, as Americans, can do better. We have to do better. And if that means changing the laws, then so be it. I cannot accept that this is the best we can do. SaveSave
|
|
|
Post by mom26 on Jun 18, 2018 20:05:57 GMT
Have we discussed the separating of children from their parents? I know this is a hot topic here- I'm sure it will be, anyway but I haven't read the other political threads-but where does everyone stand on it? I am all for border security and enforcing the laws that are on the books. I am against ILLEGAL immigration, 100%. But I cannot support separating parents from their children. The long term consequences are outweighing any benefit that come from doing this. Those seeking asylum with their children are instructed to go through the designated checkpoint(s). When they do that, they are not breaking the law and are not separated. Those that choose to attempt to cross the border illegally (i.e., not through a legal checkpoint) are in violation of the law. When that happens, the adults must be processed accordingly and children cannot be part of that. Hence, they are kept safe separately until the processing is complete. There is also the concern - and I find this a HUGE one - that these children may be being trafficked. Erring on the side of caution to verify that isn't the case is, while unpleasant, a policy I support. One must also be aware that many of these children are not accompanied by any adult at all. Family member or otherwise. Those children must be placed somewhere safe until family can be located and verified to turn them over to. Unfortunately, resources are limited and the optics of how this work is having to be done is visually and emotionally unpalatable to many. But I firmly believe everything is being done to take care of them and to reunite with family as quickly as possible. I also firmly feel - and this won't be popular, I know - that if those seeking admission into the US would do it legally, we wouldn't be having this crisis.
|
|
|
Post by leftturnonly on Jun 18, 2018 20:09:14 GMT
Have we discussed the separating of children from their parents? I know this is a hot topic here- I'm sure it will be, anyway but I haven't read the other political threads-but where does everyone stand on it? I am all for border security and enforcing the laws that are on the books. I am against ILLEGAL immigration, 100%. But I cannot support separating parents from their children. The long term consequences are outweighing any benefit that come from doing this. When Democrats stop pointing the finger at Trump and look at their same policies over the past years, I'll go there. Maybe. " June 18, 2014 - two female detainees sleep in a holding cell, as the children are separated by age group and gender, at a US Customs & Border Protection center in Nogales, Arizona" Where are all the children who were incorporated into this country under Obama? Wanna guess how many were lost track of? I'm gonna do the unthinkable. I'm gonna quote Rush Limbaugh.
|
|
|
Post by mom on Jun 18, 2018 20:33:14 GMT
Have we discussed the separating of children from their parents? I know this is a hot topic here- I'm sure it will be, anyway but I haven't read the other political threads-but where does everyone stand on it? I am all for border security and enforcing the laws that are on the books. I am against ILLEGAL immigration, 100%. But I cannot support separating parents from their children. The long term consequences are outweighing any benefit that come from doing this. Those seeking asylum with their children are instructed to go through the designated checkpoint(s). When they do that, they are not breaking the law and are not separated. Those that choose to attempt to cross the border illegally (i.e., not through a legal checkpoint) are in violation of the law. When that happens, the adults must be processed accordingly and children cannot be part of that. Hence, they are kept safe separately until the processing is complete. There is also the concern - and I find this a HUGE one - that these children may be being trafficked. Erring on the side of caution to verify that isn't the case is, while unpleasant, a policy I support. One must also be aware that many of these children are not accompanied by any adult at all. Family member or otherwise. Those children must be placed somewhere safe until family can be located and verified to turn them over to. Unfortunately, resources are limited and the optics of how this work is having to be done is visually and emotionally unpalatable to many. But I firmly believe everything is being done to take care of them and to reunite with family as quickly as possible. I also firmly feel - and this won't be popular, I know - that if those seeking admission into the US would do it legally, we wouldn't be having this crisis.
Oh I agree with you. Im just not comfortable with how this is all playing out. SaveSave
|
|
|
Post by PeachStatePea on Jun 18, 2018 21:12:16 GMT
I'm really disappointed in Laura Bush taking a public stand on this. If it happened under Obama why was she silent then if she finds it so heart breaking?
|
|
|
Post by Skellinton on Jun 18, 2018 21:22:21 GMT
I'm really disappointed in Laura Bush taking a public stand on this. If it happened under Obama why was she silent then if she finds it so heart breaking? Really? You are disappointed because she is speaking up on the inhumane way children are being treated? Even if this situation played out exactly the same under a different administration it doesn’t make it right and it doesn’t mean that she shouldn’t speak out against it. Maybe she didn’t hear about it before. Maybe she had a change of heart. Maybe she sees this situation as different. To be disappointed because someone is upset about how children are being mistreated? Good lord, I have no words.
|
|
|
Post by mom26 on Jun 18, 2018 21:31:42 GMT
I'm really disappointed in Laura Bush taking a public stand on this. If it happened under Obama why was she silent then if she finds it so heart breaking? I get how you feel, PeachStatePea. It reeks of agenda politics and not facts. Something I am beyond weary of.
|
|
|
Post by revirdsuba99 on Jun 18, 2018 21:36:45 GMT
I'm really disappointed in Laura Bush taking a public stand on this. If it happened under Obama why was she silent then if she finds it so heart breaking? Really? You are disappointed because she is speaking up on the inhumane way children are being treated? Even if this situation played out exactly the same under a different administration it doesn’t make it right and it doesn’t mean that she shouldn’t speak out against it. Maybe she didn’t hear about it before. Maybe she had a change of heart. Maybe she sees this situation as different. To be disappointed because someone is upset about how children are being mistreated? Good lord, I have no words. They are expecting 30,000 kids by August. They have lost the kids from last month, about 1,500 of them. They are placing parents all over the country and kids where ever according to Gen kelly. Please read other then Fox......... ETA: Melania has also said this should not be happening.........Stop the separation of families......
|
|
|
Post by jeremysgirl on Jun 18, 2018 21:37:31 GMT
I absolutely disagree. I did not know until now about this issue. Maybe it was Obama's dirty little secret. But this is here and now. Obama is gone. It's not ok and if I had known about it 2014, I would have spoken up then. This zero tolerance policy has compounded the problem. The fact a significant amount of children are of unknown whereabouts by DHHS? This is sickening. And if it we're a two day detention, my answer might be different. But one article said it averages 51 days. I just can't excuse this because of whataboutism.
|
|
Olan
Pearl Clutcher
Enter your message here...
Posts: 4,053
Jul 13, 2014 21:23:27 GMT
|
Post by Olan on Jun 18, 2018 21:39:47 GMT
I'm really disappointed in Laura Bush taking a public stand on this. If it happened under Obama why was she silent then if she finds it so heart breaking? I get how you feel, PeachStatePea. It reeks of agenda politics and not facts. Something I am beyond weary of. What would the agenda be? The facts are children are being separated from their parents. How could anyone with a heart think that's okay. Many of you are so morally bankrupt it astounds me.
|
|
|
Post by mom on Jun 18, 2018 21:52:37 GMT
I absolutely disagree. I did not know until now about this issue. Maybe it was Obama's dirty little secret. But this is here and now. Obama is gone. It's not ok and if I had known about it 2014, I would have spoken up then. This zero tolerance policy has compounded the problem. The fact a significant amount of children are of unknown whereabouts by DHHS? This is sickening. And if it we're a two day detention, my answer might be different. But one article said it averages 51 days. I just can't excuse this because of whataboutism. Completely agree. I didn't realize (for whatever reason) this had been happening before. Now that I know about it, I can't just sit back and say nothing. Its not ok. Like you, If we were talking a short detention, then ok. But if 51 is the average, then that means some kids are away from those that love them for more than 51 days. Not OK. SaveSave
|
|
|
Post by mom on Jun 18, 2018 21:53:28 GMT
Really? You are disappointed because she is speaking up on the inhumane way children are being treated? Even if this situation played out exactly the same under a different administration it doesn’t make it right and it doesn’t mean that she shouldn’t speak out against it. Maybe she didn’t hear about it before. Maybe she had a change of heart. Maybe she sees this situation as different. To be disappointed because someone is upset about how children are being mistreated? Good lord, I have no words. They are expecting 30,000 kids by August. They have lost the kids from last month, about 1,500 of them. They are placing parents all over the country and kids where ever according to Gen kelly. Please read other then Fox......... ETA: Melania has also said this should not be happening.........Stop the separation of families...... Kudos for her for stepping up and saying something. I would imagine it would be easier for her to either say nothing or just go along with Trump. SaveSave
|
|
|
Post by gar on Jun 18, 2018 22:09:37 GMT
I'm really disappointed in Laura Bush taking a public stand on this. If it happened under Obama why was she silent then if she finds it so heart breaking? I’m not sure whether to go with 🙄 or 😠
|
|
|
Post by PeachStatePea on Jun 18, 2018 22:09:55 GMT
I just watched the press conference with Homeland Security head Kirstjen Nielsen. She had a lot of information about the situation which I found enlightening. For those who call me morally bankrupt, I'm sorry. I'm not. I care very much about these kids who are being used in this way.
I started a big long response but I deleted it. Anyone can watch a replay of the press conference and form their own opinion but the fact that smugglers bringing in kids UNRELATED to them has increased recently by 314% should be alarming to everyone.
As for Laura Bush. This policy of separating kids from adults in certain situations was started under her husband, was expanded under Obama and then continued under Trump and to imply that this is change of policy started under Trump last week is extremely dishonest. That was my point.
|
|
|
Post by gar on Jun 18, 2018 22:11:38 GMT
I'm really disappointed in Laura Bush taking a public stand on this. If it happened under Obama why was she silent then if she finds it so heart breaking? I’m not sure whether to go with 🙄 or 😠 You only get concerned by the how and when, not the actual conditions these children are being held in...? You’re all heart !
|
|
|
Post by jeremysgirl on Jun 18, 2018 22:17:53 GMT
PeachStatePea said: to imply that this is change of policy started under Trump last week is extremely dishonest I am curious...who said this? No one did. I'm just having trouble understanding...as a mother...why everyone isn't screaming about this.
|
|
cycworker
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,409
Jun 26, 2014 0:42:38 GMT
|
Post by cycworker on Jun 18, 2018 22:22:04 GMT
Nielsen is LYING.
Breitbart, Rush Limbaugh & Ben Shapiro are not sharing all the facts. The reality is the zero tolerance policy is causing this disaster. As well, people CAN'T get to the appropriate/legal checkpoints because Sessions & co have set things up to stop them. They want this... they are using children as a bargain chip to try to force the creation of Trump's monument to his ego... his big, beautiful wall.
Policy isn't law. Bush & Obama both realized the policy wasn't working & stopped the enforcement of it. Trump, because, again... he wants his wall (and he's a racist who is dog whistling to other racists, too) refuses to give the order to stop enforcing the policy.
|
|
|
Post by missmiss on Jun 18, 2018 22:22:19 GMT
Again, you're focusing on who leaks rather than the issue of whether a government agency who operates under the control of Congress has the right to refuse oversight by Congress. If those in Congress are leaking the info then what? It has been shown there are leaks. Could leaks hamper an investigation? I think so.
|
|
Olan
Pearl Clutcher
Enter your message here...
Posts: 4,053
Jul 13, 2014 21:23:27 GMT
|
Post by Olan on Jun 18, 2018 22:30:39 GMT
I called your morally bankrupt because there is no other explanation. And for those of us shocked regarding the Republican response.....my ancestors had their children ripped away from them and sold and no one gave a damn. It was lawful then too. Women watched.
|
|
|
Post by mom on Jun 18, 2018 22:38:32 GMT
All 4 living former First Ladies (and Melania) have spoken out against this policy. The fact they can all agree on policy should tell you something.
|
|
|
Post by jeremysgirl on Jun 18, 2018 22:40:45 GMT
I called your morally bankrupt because there is no other explanation. And for those of us shocked regarding the Republican response.....my ancestors had their children ripped away from them and sold and no one gave a damn. It was lawful then too. Women watched. That is exactly how I feel about it. I'm watching history repeats itself. What do we do with these children if we can't reunite them?
|
|
|
Post by #notLauren on Jun 18, 2018 22:47:55 GMT
Olan and Gar...go the f*ck away. You can't discuss an issue with people you disagree with without getting personal. It's the whole reason people want one thread on this board without you. Just one. You're both too fucking selfish and self-righteous to let one thread go on without your judgmental namecalling bullshit.
Jeremy's girl manages to have a discussion and express her concerns without your arrogance. She's welcome here. People like you, stick to your hundreds of I hate Trump threads and leave us the f*ck alone.
Olan, if you hate this country so much, go somewhere else. I'm tired of the chip on your shoulder. And Gar, if you spent half as much time looking to the politics of the UK as you spend berating US politics, you wouldn't have Scotland looking year after year to get away from England.
Here's the OPs request. Anyone can post here, obviously, but this is not the place for those with opposing views to grill conservatives and demand that they defend every word of every post ad naseum. If you see that as us not wanting to be challenged on our views, it’s probably best not to contribute, and you can complain about that in every other thread you like.
What is wrong with you people that you are so threatened by there being one thread on this board where you are asked to stay away if you can't help doing these things?
|
|
Olan
Pearl Clutcher
Enter your message here...
Posts: 4,053
Jul 13, 2014 21:23:27 GMT
|
Post by Olan on Jun 18, 2018 22:53:56 GMT
The act of separating families is meant to break spirits. If you can't hope for a better future for your children you tend to give up. This is a calculated shitty move on the part of Republicans. They want their mediocrity to reign supreme and they know migrants will shake everything up. They know the children they are imprisoning could one day vote or "steal a job" from their little school shooter. The policy isnt meant to protect any of us. Those children are going to be fucked up and will have the US to blame. We are creating enemies.
I recall Cher saying she would house dreamers. I say this all the time but it bears repeating a zillion times. DON'T be the human being who looks back at a time like this and has to answer for why they TOO sat idle. You can do it in yoga pants and with some measure of protected status.
|
|
|
Post by peano on Jun 18, 2018 22:57:43 GMT
Nielsen is LYING. Breitbart, Rush Limbaugh & Ben Shapiro are not sharing all the facts. The reality is the zero tolerance policy is causing this disaster. As well, people CAN'T get to the appropriate/legal checkpoints because Sessions & co have set things up to stop them. They want this... they are using children as a bargain chip to try to force the creation of Trump's monument to his ego... his big, beautiful wall. Policy isn't law. Bush & Obama both realized the policy wasn't working & stopped the enforcement of it. Trump, because, again... he wants his wall (and he's a racist who is dog whistling to other racists, too) refuses to give the order to stop enforcing the policy. In addition to Sessions, this has Stephen Miller’s filthy bigoted fingers all over it.
|
|
|
Post by #notLauren on Jun 18, 2018 22:57:51 GMT
Oh yeah right. The parents who are schlepping these kids illegally into the country bear no responsibility at all. It's all the fault of the big bad Republicans and the evil US.
|
|
|
Post by #notLauren on Jun 18, 2018 22:59:15 GMT
I call bullshit on your "I hate white people" mantra.
|
|