katybee
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Post by katybee on Jun 19, 2018 16:06:02 GMT
What on earth are you talking about? I’m not talking about he adults at all. Do you think I am? I disagree with you that the children will be used by the drug cartels and gangs if/when they return to their home country. I think suggesting this might happen is dangerous rhetoric because you are giving the Republicans another idea about the "potential criminality" of innocent children. One of the big reasons so many families are leaving Honduras right now is because their children are being “recruited” into these gangs. It’s a fact. And by recruited, I mean FORCED. You don’t get a choice. You join or you’re a target. There’s no middle ground. I don’t think that telling it like it is in anyway implies that these children are potential criminals or have criminal tendencies. They are doing what it takes to survive. Be grateful that you were never faced with such a choice... |
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Jun 19, 2018 16:31:36 GMT
I disagree with you that the children will be used by the drug cartels and gangs if/when they return to their home country. I think suggesting this might happen is dangerous rhetoric because you are giving the Republicans another idea about the "potential criminality" of innocent children. One of the big reasons so many families are leaving Honduras right now is because their children are being “recruited” into these gangs. It’s a fact. And by recruited, I mean FORCED. You don’t get a choice. You join or you’re a target. There’s no middle ground. I don’t think that telling it like it is in anyway implies that these children are potential criminals or have criminal tendencies. They are doing what it takes to survive. Be grateful that you were never faced with such a choice... I am grateful. I am also deeply rooted in migrant communities working with them, reassuring them, feeding them, translating for them, reading books to their children etc. I do this work because I know my ancestors would. Honduras is but one place. I still think it's dangerous to suggest these caged children be called "ammo" and fashioned into little war lords in a thread like this. It's okay if you disagree. |
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Post by cade387 on Jun 19, 2018 16:39:55 GMT
What on earth are you talking about? I’m not talking about he adults at all. Do you think I am? I disagree with you that the children will be used by the drug cartels and gangs if/when they return to their home country. I think suggesting this might happen is dangerous rhetoric because you are giving the Republicans another idea about the "potential criminality" of innocent children. I think it is highly optimistic that these children will be reunited with their parents. I also think they will be kicked out at the border with the shirts on their backs based on the current policy being set today. If you take a 12-16 yo kid and take his parents away, give him nothing and then throw them out on the street in Mexico, which is most likely not their home country, what do you expect them to do? They will have to try to survive. They have nothing but a deep seated hatred for the USA who took everything from them. That is their perspective at that point. I absolutely think the gangs will try to recruit by offering them a new family. It happens a lot with gangs in the USA as well. They offer to provide a family when a kid has none and by the time they realize how deep they are in it is too late. I’m not saying these kids are bad kids or criminals. I never said that - you did. I think these kids are the victims and will be manipulated by many folks and the ones who put them in the cages and told them they can’t hug each other, can’t talk to their parents, can’t play will be the ones who started this domino effect. |
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Jun 19, 2018 16:44:15 GMT
I disagree with you that the children will be used by the drug cartels and gangs if/when they return to their home country. I think suggesting this might happen is dangerous rhetoric because you are giving the Republicans another idea about the "potential criminality" of innocent children. I think it is highly optimistic that these children will be reunited with their parents. I also think they will be kicked out at the border with the shirts on their backs based on the current policy being set today. If you take a 12-16 yo kid and take his parents away, give him nothing and then throw them out on the street in Mexico, which is most likely not their home country, what do you expect them to do? They will have to try to survive. They have nothing but a deep seated hatred for the USA who took everything from them. That is their perspective at that point. I absolutely think the gangs will try to recruit by offering them a new family. It happens a lot with gangs in the USA as well. They offer to provide a family when a kid has none and by the time they realize how deep they are in it is too late. I’m not saying these kids are bad kids or criminals. I never said that - you did. I think these kids are the victims and will be manipulated by many folks and the ones who put them in the cages and told them they can’t hug each other, can’t talk to their parents, can’t play will be the ones who started this domino effect. Have a great day. Edit to add: Addressing no one in particular but it's presumptive as fuck to think you know what will happen, or how to solve an issue that barely had your attention and wasn't on your social justice radar until someone on a MB posted about it. And for all the thinks you share online be sure to weigh it against who it actually serves. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2018 16:59:29 GMT
These families coming across the border illegally aren't doing it wholly on their own. I believe that people are whispering in their ear to do it. "Go to the Land of Milk and Honey and the US will care for you and your children."
And this is where the problem lies. Do you really think that these people are coming to the United States so the US will “care for them”? I live in Texas, and teach in a dual language school, so I am surrounded by immigrant families. And let me tell you, these are some of the hardest working people I know. They work 2, even 3 jobs to support their families. All of the custodians at my school and all of the cafeteria workers are fairly recent immigrants from Mexico or Central America. They work hard. They love their families. They are not freeloaders. They are not criminals. And whether you want to believe it or not, these immigrants ARE working jobs around here that real “Americans“ don’t want – picking our food, cleaning our houses, mowing our lawns, building our houses. They are GRATEFUL for the opportunity. And everyone around here is hiring right now – so clearly there is not a shortage of jobs. As far as their children—they get them to school every day and make sure that they are RESPECTFUL and WORK HARD— because they want their children to get an education and have a better life than they did. Isn’t that what we all want? The main arguments I hear against allowing more immigration and asylum-seekers is that they will be a drain on our welfare system and that they will take “our” jobs. Around here, I see no evidence of that. As a matter of fact, my family and I were driving around town on Sunday. We have a fairly significant homeless population, and there are people begging on nearly every single corner. Do you know how many Latino people I saw begging for money? Exactly NONE. There were a few African-Americans, but most of them were white. We live a life of immeasurable privilege here in the United States. No matter how “bad” we think our lives are, they cannot possibly compare to what these people are leaving behind in their home countries. We have no idea what it feels like to not be able to send your child to school because you fear that they will be kidnapped and held for ransom or recruited into a gang. We do not have rival drug cartels have in shootouts in our neighborhoods. People seeking asylum from Central America are not coming here to mooch off of you or your family, and they are not coming here to start their own neighborhood drug cartel. They are coming here to escape unspeakable violence and start a new life. I think if we could understand that, and have some empathy, we would view the immigration “crisis” in a different light. I don't know where you live, but what I bolded above is absolutely untrue. |
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katybee
Drama Llama
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Post by katybee on Jun 19, 2018 17:04:06 GMT
One of the big reasons so many families are leaving Honduras right now is because their children are being “recruited” into these gangs. It’s a fact. And by recruited, I mean FORCED. You don’t get a choice. You join or you’re a target. There’s no middle ground. I don’t think that telling it like it is in anyway implies that these children are potential criminals or have criminal tendencies. They are doing what it takes to survive. Be grateful that you were never faced with such a choice... I am grateful. I am also deeply rooted in migrant communities working with them, reassuring them, feeding them, translating for them, reading books to their children etc. I do this work because I know my ancestors would. Honduras is but one place. I still think it's dangerous to suggest these caged children be called "ammo" and fashioned into little war lords in a thread like this. It's okay if you disagree. No...I actually agree with you. But I also think it’s dangerous to downplay the dire circumstanstances these families are trying to escape from. And the gangs are rampant in Mexico, Guatemala and a few other areas, as well. |
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Post by pierkiss on Jun 19, 2018 17:06:33 GMT
So if you “break” the law, your kids should be taken from you before you get tried and convicted? Got it. Ivanka and Jared kids should be taken from them. Barron too then by that standard. Yes, the people that break the law are separated from society. But their children often remain with the other parent (if there is one), or are sent to live with other family members. In the worst case situation the children are put into the foster care system. At no point are the children of criminals housed inside of warehouses with “cages” made out of metal fencing inside of them. The children of criminals are not left uncomforted when they are hysterical and distraught. They are not left to sit in soiled clothing and diapers because everyone is forbidden from touching them. What is happening to these children is horrible and I humane. I cannot believe you (or anyone really), are ok with this. |
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katybee
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Post by katybee on Jun 19, 2018 17:08:44 GMT
I think it is highly optimistic that these children will be reunited with their parents. I also think they will be kicked out at the border with the shirts on their backs based on the current policy being set today. If you take a 12-16 yo kid and take his parents away, give him nothing and then throw them out on the street in Mexico, which is most likely not their home country, what do you expect them to do? They will have to try to survive. They have nothing but a deep seated hatred for the USA who took everything from them. That is their perspective at that point. I absolutely think the gangs will try to recruit by offering them a new family. It happens a lot with gangs in the USA as well. They offer to provide a family when a kid has none and by the time they realize how deep they are in it is too late. I’m not saying these kids are bad kids or criminals. I never said that - you did. I think these kids are the victims and will be manipulated by many folks and the ones who put them in the cages and told them they can’t hug each other, can’t talk to their parents, can’t play will be the ones who started this domino effect. Have a great day. Edit to add: Addressing no one in particular but it's presumptive as fuck to think you know what will happen, or how to solve an issue that barely had your attention and wasn't on your social justice radar until someone on a MB posted about it. And for all the thinks you share online be sure to weigh it against who it actually serves. And it’s awfully presumptive of you to know what was and wasn’t on our social justice radar before now. You’re not the only one who works with these families, Olan. |
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Jun 19, 2018 17:13:17 GMT
Have a great day. Edit to add: Addressing no one in particular but it's presumptive as fuck to think you know what will happen, or how to solve an issue that barely had your attention and wasn't on your social justice radar until someone on a MB posted about it. And for all the thinks you share online be sure to weigh it against who it actually serves. And it’s awfully presumptive of you to know what was and wasn’t on our social justice radar before now. You’re not the only one who works with these families, Olan. I said addressing no one in particular and only you took it personally. Imagine that. I would hope I am not the only one working to help migrant families and my ego isn't big enough to think I am. My ego is small enough to not pretend to have all the answers and be so quick to argue someone else's thoughts down. Also common sense would suggest that if migrant families was on anyone's social justice radar before this societal Fuck up we wouldn't even be discussing the seperation of children from their families. Would we? There have been many instances in America's history to make mistakes where people question your humanity, learn from it, and never repeat it again. That's not the history of America though. That isn't what's happening So nah that's not presumptive of me at all. If only society could preemptively work for solutions....o wait we told you guys what voting for 45 would mean and you did it anyway. |
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katybee
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Post by katybee on Jun 19, 2018 17:15:16 GMT
And it’s awfully presumptive of you to know what was and wasn’t on our social justice radar before now. You’re not the only one who works with these families, Olan. I said addressing no one in particular and only you took it personally. Imagine that. I would hope I am not the only one working to help migrant families and my ego isn't big enough to think I am. My ego is also small enough to not pretend to have all the answers and be so quick to argue someone else's thoughts down. Addressing no one in particular actually means addressing everyone... |
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Jun 19, 2018 17:33:36 GMT
I think it is highly optimistic that these children will be reunited with their parents. I also think they will be kicked out at the border with the shirts on their backs based on thbee current policy being set today. If you take a 12-16 yo kid and take his parents away, give him nothing and then throw them out on the street in Mexico, which is most likely not their home country, what do you expect them to do? They will have to try to survive. They have nothing but a deep seated hatred for the USA who took everything from them. That is their perspective at that point. I absolutely think the gangs will try to recruit by offering them a new family. It happens a lot with gangs in the USA as well. They offer to provide a family when a kid has none and by the time they realize how deep they are in it is too late. I’m not saying these kids are bad kids or criminals. I never said that - you did. I think these kids are the victims and will be manipulated by many folks and the ones who put them in the cages and told them they can’t hug each other, can’t talk to their parents, can’t play will be the ones who started this domino effect. Every day these kids are being damaged while in 'camps'/cages. They will HATE us forever. There are reports that some parents have been deported, now and in the past, WITHOUT their children who are being held by us. How will those kids view us? |
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inkedup
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Post by inkedup on Jun 19, 2018 17:40:37 GMT
And it’s awfully presumptive of you to know what was and wasn’t on our social justice radar before now. You’re not the only one who works with these families, Olan. I said addressing no one in particular and only you took it personally. Imagine that. I would hope I am not the only one working to help migrant families and my ego isn't big enough to think I am. My ego is small enough to not pretend to have all the answers and be so quick to argue someone else's thoughts down. Also common sense would suggest that if migrant families was on anyone's social justice radar before this societal Fuck up we wouldn't even be discussing the seperation of children from their families. Would we? There have been many instances in America's history to make mistakes where people question your humanity, learn from it, and never repeat it again. That's not the history of America though. That isn't what's happening So nah that's not presumptive of me at all. If only society could preemptively work for solutions....o wait we told you guys what voting for 45 would mean and you did it anyway. I am tired of you blaming everyone who isnt black for the fact that Trump was elected. There has been a hugely vocal anti-Trump group here since he started campaigning. And I'm not going to make this about you. You have a way of turning every thread and issue back to yourself, just like Gia and just like "not"lauren. Believe it or not, having non-black skin doesn't invest most of us with any sort of special powers. We are stuck with a president we did not vote for, just like you. There are many of us who have protested Trump from day one. You come here only to belittle our efforts and to tell us how much more you do for others than we do. |
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Jun 19, 2018 17:43:21 GMT
I said addressing no one in particular and only you took it personally. Imagine that. I would hope I am not the only one working to help migrant families and my ego isn't big enough to think I am. My ego is also small enough to not pretend to have all the answers and be so quick to argue someone else's thoughts down. Addressing no one in particular actually means addressing everyone... Either you agree with me or you don't. You've said you do so I'm unsure of why you are taking what I said, whilst conversing with someone other than you, so personally. Notice how many peas have made aggressive comments to me or attempted to make this discussion personal and notice the level of attention I've given it. This administration has been dehumanizing people from other countries since he started his bid for presidency. We knew what they had planned for the Dreamers. So I don't think what I said was presumptive at all. The mere fact that the children are suffering should let us know we ALL are failing as human beings. I disagreed with dehumanizing the children more and making them into ticking time bombs AND said I was okay with anyone who had a different view. This will cause irreparable damage to their Iittle brains but Enslaved Africans didn't respond to their treatment on American soil by turning into terrorist and it's my hope that these children don't either. The Japanese reintegrated after their time in intermittent camps as well. The only terrorist are the folks who continue to author these instances where everyone forgets their humanity I think times are different now than back then. I think that the gangs and cartels will be waiting with open arms to recruit these kids who feel isolated and abandoned Why take the chance and give them ammo to use against us? |
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Post by Merge on Jun 19, 2018 17:58:48 GMT
These families coming across the border illegally aren't doing it wholly on their own. I believe that people are whispering in their ear to do it. "Go to the Land of Milk and Honey and the US will care for you and your children."
And this is where the problem lies. Do you really think that these people are coming to the United States so the US will “care for them”? I live in Texas, and teach in a dual language school, so I am surrounded by immigrant families. And let me tell you, these are some of the hardest working people I know. They work 2, even 3 jobs to support their families. All of the custodians at my school and all of the cafeteria workers are fairly recent immigrants from Mexico or Central America. They work hard. They love their families. They are not freeloaders. They are not criminals. And whether you want to believe it or not, these immigrants ARE working jobs around here that real “Americans“ don’t want – picking our food, cleaning our houses, mowing our lawns, building our houses. They are GRATEFUL for the opportunity. And everyone around here is hiring right now – so clearly there is not a shortage of jobs. As far as their children—they get them to school every day and make sure that they are RESPECTFUL and WORK HARD— because they want their children to get an education and have a better life than they did. Isn’t that what we all want? The main arguments I hear against allowing more immigration and asylum-seekers is that they will be a drain on our welfare system and that they will take “our” jobs. Around here, I see no evidence of that. As a matter of fact, my family and I were driving around town on Sunday. We have a fairly significant homeless population, and there are people begging on nearly every single corner. Do you know how many Latino people I saw begging for money? Exactly NONE. There were a few African-Americans, but most of them were white. We live a life of immeasurable privilege here in the United States. No matter how “bad” we think our lives are, they cannot possibly compare to what these people are leaving behind in their home countries. We have no idea what it feels like to not be able to send your child to school because you fear that they will be kidnapped and held for ransom or recruited into a gang. We do not have rival drug cartels have in shootouts in our neighborhoods. People seeking asylum from Central America are not coming here to mooch off of you or your family, and they are not coming here to start their own neighborhood drug cartel. They are coming here to escape unspeakable violence and start a new life. I think if we could understand that, and have some empathy, we would view the immigration “crisis” in a different light. Preach. |
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Post by thundergal on Jun 19, 2018 17:59:54 GMT
These families coming across the border illegally aren't doing it wholly on their own. I believe that people are whispering in their ear to do it. "Go to the Land of Milk and Honey and the US will care for you and your children."
And this is where the problem lies. Do you really think that these people are coming to the United States so the US will “care for them”? I live in Texas, and teach in a dual language school, so I am surrounded by immigrant families. And let me tell you, these are some of the hardest working people I know. They work 2, even 3 jobs to support their families. All of the custodians at my school and all of the cafeteria workers are fairly recent immigrants from Mexico or Central America. They work hard. They love their families. They are not freeloaders. They are not criminals. And whether you want to believe it or not, these immigrants ARE working jobs around here that real “Americans“ don’t want – picking our food, cleaning our houses, mowing our lawns, building our houses. They are GRATEFUL for the opportunity. And everyone around here is hiring right now – so clearly there is not a shortage of jobs. As far as their children—they get them to school every day and make sure that they are RESPECTFUL and WORK HARD— because they want their children to get an education and have a better life than they did. Isn’t that what we all want? The main arguments I hear against allowing more immigration and asylum-seekers is that they will be a drain on our welfare system and that they will take “our” jobs. Around here, I see no evidence of that. As a matter of fact, my family and I were driving around town on Sunday. We have a fairly significant homeless population, and there are people begging on nearly every single corner. Do you know how many Latino people I saw begging for money? Exactly NONE. There were a few African-Americans, but most of them were white. We live a life of immeasurable privilege here in the United States. No matter how “bad” we think our lives are, they cannot possibly compare to what these people are leaving behind in their home countries. We have no idea what it feels like to not be able to send your child to school because you fear that they will be kidnapped and held for ransom or recruited into a gang. We do not have rival drug cartels have in shootouts in our neighborhoods. People seeking asylum from Central America are not coming here to mooch off of you or your family, and they are not coming here to start their own neighborhood drug cartel. They are coming here to escape unspeakable violence and start a new life. I think if we could understand that, and have some empathy, we would view the immigration “crisis” in a different light.  |
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Post by sabrinae on Jun 19, 2018 18:19:15 GMT
It happens all the time. People who commit crimes are separated from society. This is nothing new. Don't like it then don't break the law. No - people commit crimes all the time (you, probably included) and DO NOT get separated from society. If someone crommits a crime of a certain level (which is a level of crime higher than what 1st time illegals are committing) then yes, you go to jail. But most people DO NOT go to jail for a misdemeanor. SaveSaveMost people don’t go to jail for felonies let alone misdemeanors. |
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Post by cade387 on Jun 19, 2018 18:27:32 GMT
Addressing no one in particular actually means addressing everyone... Either you agree with me or you don't. You've said you do so I'm unsure of why you are taking what I said, whilst conversing with someone other than you, so personally. Notice how many peas have made aggressive comments to me or attempted to make this discussion personal and notice the level of attention I've given it. This administration has been dehumanizing people from other countries since he started his bid for presidency. We knew what they had planned for the Dreamers. So I don't think what I said was presumptive at all. The mere fact that the children are suffering should let us know we ALL are failing as human beings. I disagreed with dehumanizing the children more and making them into ticking time bombs AND said I was okay with anyone who had a different view. I think times are different now than back then. I think that the gangs and cartels will be waiting with open arms to recruit these kids who feel isolated and abandoned Why take the chance and give them ammo to use against us? I’m not dehumanizing them. I’m saying they are innocent who should not be allowed to be manipulated into people filled with hate. |
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Post by leftturnonly on Jun 19, 2018 21:04:36 GMT
It should be even more interesting since Trey Gowdy gets his chance at them. I know, I'm actually looking forward to hearing him today. I also love listening to John Kennedy from Louisiana, he makes me laugh. I came across an article with a few of his one-liners: "Now's the time: It's saddle up and ride" "faster than green grass goes through a goose."
A couple of quotes from the CNN article: "Take, for instance, the way he called Arizona's Republican Sen. John McCain "tough as a boiled owl" or how he explained last fall, in his thick Southern drawl, that Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell was backing a health care bill "like a cat on a fat rat." "Skeptical of the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office, which estimates the costs of various bills, Kennedy remarked last fall that it makes "those late-night psychic hotlines that you see advertised reputable."
He's so witty. Trey Gowdy today |
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Post by leftturnonly on Jun 19, 2018 21:15:26 GMT
It's just a coincidence that all anyone can talk about are the children on the border while this extremely damaging hearing is happening.
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Post by #notLauren on Jun 19, 2018 21:16:54 GMT
And if you believe that, I have a beach resort in the desert to sell you.  |
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Post by leftturnonly on Jun 19, 2018 21:28:44 GMT
Rep. Jim Jordan at the hearing today
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Post by dewryce on Jun 19, 2018 22:26:34 GMT
It's just a coincidence that all anyone can talk about are the children on the border while this extremely damaging hearing is happening. Yes, it's shocking that we are discussing the atrocious ways these families are being separated and children are being treated as it is actually happening. Outrageous that we are calling for our representatives to try and influence a current event. And I'm sure it's also just a coincidence that, unless I missed it, you have not addressed the main current conversation on this thread today about the bills/plans by Feinstein and Cruz to address this pressing issue, but are instead talking about a hearing on a past event where you feel your party is being shown in a better light. I'm not saying it's not important and wouldn't make for good conversation. But to pretend that you don't understand why the more pressing matter of horrific current events against children and families is leading the conversation over a hearing about a past event is disingenuous. And also, kind of ironic. |
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Deleted
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Nov 25, 2024 19:39:19 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2018 22:40:54 GMT
Serious question here: To start out, yes I DO understand this is an open and public message board, and people can discuss whatever they want, whenever they want. Just want to make that clear.
BUT, the absolute disdain, hate, and disgust towards the people that post on this thread, that voted for Trump, that are conservative, are republican, and any combination, is very clearly openly apparent and obvious. So WHY do people come here to engage when the people posting here are the ones disliked so much? It most certainly isn't for exchanging ideas, or some good old debating, because the ideas expressed here are ridiculed and met with disgust.
People that I might have such harsh feelings for I choose to not engage with, here or in real life. What gives?
And spare me the self-persecution complex mumbo jumbo.
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cycworker
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Post by cycworker on Jun 19, 2018 22:45:37 GMT
leftturnonlyTrump is a criminal. What the two were saying is they were going to prove it. They weren't saying they hated him so they were going to set him up. They only hate him because he's a treasonous traitor who conspired with Russia to steal the election. The Clinton investigations were right wing witch hunts. The entire team investigating Trump are heroes & patriots.
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Post by #notLauren on Jun 19, 2018 22:46:32 GMT
Shaking my head laughing.
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Nov 25, 2024 19:39:19 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2018 23:05:07 GMT
oh geeze.
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Post by leftturnonly on Jun 19, 2018 23:05:22 GMT
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Jun 19, 2018 23:23:21 GMT
Meadows said the bill won't get into other issues like funding for President Trump's border wall or language to protect "Dreamers." McConnell said the same thing. May they pass it and sign it ASAP! |
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Post by cade387 on Jun 19, 2018 23:44:44 GMT
I wonder if it will be aligned with the one currently proposed by Democrats and they can compromise on the wording ig |
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Jun 20, 2018 0:30:49 GMT
Have you seen this today? Hundreds of members at Sessions's church write formal complaint over immigration policyBY BROOKE SEIPEL - 06/19/18 07:21 AM EDT More than 600 members of the United Methodist Church signed onto a letter Monday condemning Attorney General Jeff Sessions for the Trump administration's policy of separating migrant parents and children at the U.S. border. In the letter, the group of churchgoers, including clergy and church leadership, accuse Sessions of child abuse, immorality, racial discrimination and dissemination of doctrines contrary to the standards of the doctrine of the United Methodist Church.They note in the letter that Sessions is a member of Ashland Place United Methodist Church, in Mobile, Ala. "While other individuals and areas of the federal government are implicated in each of these examples, Mr. Sessions - as a long-term United Methodist in a tremendously powerful, public position - is particularly accountable to us, his church," the letter reads. "He is ours, and we are his. As his denomination, we have an ethical obligation to speak boldly when one of our members is engaged in causing significant harm in matters contrary to the Discipline on the global stage."More at link: thehill.com/homenews/news/392928-hundreds-of-members-of-sessionss-church-write-formal-complaint-over-separation |
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