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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2018 0:44:54 GMT
Thanks for sharing. I hope something reasonable is agreed upon soon. It's unfortunate the situation didn't receive more exposure and backlash before now because maybe this would have been rectified much sooner. Since it seems a lot in the country are on the same page now, I'll be hopeful for a solution.
I was surprised to see the comments from Henry Cuellar, democrat, from Texas on Saturday.
I just saw this on my local news:
Three years is a long time.
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Post by mom on Jun 20, 2018 0:48:13 GMT
Have you seen this today? Hundreds of members at Sessions's church write formal complaint over immigration policyBY BROOKE SEIPEL - 06/19/18 07:21 AM EDT More than 600 members of the United Methodist Church signed onto a letter Monday condemning Attorney General Jeff Sessions for the Trump administration's policy of separating migrant parents and children at the U.S. border. In the letter, the group of churchgoers, including clergy and church leadership, accuse Sessions of child abuse, immorality, racial discrimination and dissemination of doctrines contrary to the standards of the doctrine of the United Methodist Church.They note in the letter that Sessions is a member of Ashland Place United Methodist Church, in Mobile, Ala. "While other individuals and areas of the federal government are implicated in each of these examples, Mr. Sessions - as a long-term United Methodist in a tremendously powerful, public position - is particularly accountable to us, his church," the letter reads. "He is ours, and we are his. As his denomination, we have an ethical obligation to speak boldly when one of our members is engaged in causing significant harm in matters contrary to the Discipline on the global stage."More at link: thehill.com/homenews/news/392928-hundreds-of-members-of-sessionss-church-write-formal-complaint-over-separationGood for them! SaveSave
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Post by dewryce on Jun 20, 2018 1:05:31 GMT
Thanks for sharing. I hope something reasonable is agreed upon soon. It's unfortunate the situation didn't receive more exposure and backlash before now because maybe this would have been rectified much sooner. Since it seems a lot in the country are on the same page now, I'll be hopeful for a solution.
I was surprised to see the comments from Henry Cuellar, democrat, from Texas on Saturday.
I just saw this on my local news:
Three years is a long time. I agree completely as far as the conditions in the detention centers are concerned. What started as as quick fix to handle an enormous amount of unexpected, unaccompanied minors in 2014 seems to have turned into a permanent method of housing them when they arrive. It's been 4 years, plenty of time for improvements from both administrations. The practice of family separation as it stands now is a new policy. And I have a very hard time accepting that they implemented this policy, not only for how cruel it is, but knowing darn good and well they did not have proper facilities for it. I haven't read Mark Meadow's suggestions yet, I'll go do that now. I'm wondering how similar it will be to Feinstein's Bill which all Democrats are already on board with. It is described above as being very similar, addressing only this paritular issue of family separation and reunification. Hopefully they can come together and implement good solutions quickly. But the WH has said they will not support any bill that does not address all immigration issues including Dreamers and the wall. Was glad to see McConnell come on board and say he would be behind a bill that doesn't address those issues, so at least it has a chance to be heard. How many votes would it take to be Veto proof?
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Rainbow
Pearl Clutcher
Where salt is in the air and sand is at my feet...
Posts: 4,103
Jun 26, 2014 5:57:41 GMT
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Post by Rainbow on Jun 20, 2018 1:25:06 GMT
It happens all the time. People who commit crimes are separated from society. This is nothing new. Don't like it then don't break the law. No - people commit crimes all the time (you, probably included) and DO NOT get separated from society. If someone crommits a crime of a certain level (which is a level of crime higher than what 1st time illegals are committing) then yes, you go to jail. But most people DO NOT go to jail for a misdemeanor. SaveSave It is my understanding that they are booked into a jail or detention center.
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Rainbow
Pearl Clutcher
Where salt is in the air and sand is at my feet...
Posts: 4,103
Jun 26, 2014 5:57:41 GMT
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Post by Rainbow on Jun 20, 2018 1:26:25 GMT
It happens all the time. People who commit crimes are separated from society. This is nothing new. Don't like it then don't break the law. So are we just getting rid of due process, then? Nope, awaiting due processing.
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Rainbow
Pearl Clutcher
Where salt is in the air and sand is at my feet...
Posts: 4,103
Jun 26, 2014 5:57:41 GMT
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Post by Rainbow on Jun 20, 2018 1:28:23 GMT
It happens all the time. People who commit crimes are separated from society. This is nothing new. Don't like it then don't break the law. People who come to a center seeking asylum are not breaking the law. They are following the process and having their children taken from them anyway They still have to be processed.
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Rainbow
Pearl Clutcher
Where salt is in the air and sand is at my feet...
Posts: 4,103
Jun 26, 2014 5:57:41 GMT
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Post by Rainbow on Jun 20, 2018 1:29:50 GMT
yes, I do believe he did. And now we are all fucked. Thanks ladies! I know everyone likes to send me back to Africa when I question your lack of morality but how awesome would it be if every Trump voter/supporter was sent to Russia How so?
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Rainbow
Pearl Clutcher
Where salt is in the air and sand is at my feet...
Posts: 4,103
Jun 26, 2014 5:57:41 GMT
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Post by Rainbow on Jun 20, 2018 1:43:42 GMT
I think it's bullshit for people to come here not respecting our laws. (a) Improper time or place; avoidance of examination or inspection; misrepresentation and concealment of facts Any alien who (1) enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers, or (2) eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers, or (3) attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact, shall, for the first commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18 or imprisoned not more than 6 months, or both, and, for a subsequent commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18, or imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both. (b) Improper time or place; civil penaltiesAny alien who is apprehended while entering (or attempting to enter) the United States at a time or place other than as designated by immigration officers shall be subject to a civil penalty of— (1) at least $50 and not more than $250 for each such entry (or attempted entry); or (2) twice the amount specified in paragraph (1) in the case of an alien who has been previously subject to a civil penalty under this subsection. Civil penalties under this subsection are in addition to, and not in lieu of, any criminal or other civil penalties that may be imposed. Key word up there is OR. Parents DO NOT have to be separated from their children. Our government decided to do this. I don't care when it started and who started it. It isn't right. Should they cross the boarder illegally? Of course not. I do not know anyone who thinks we should just have an open boarder and anyone can cross. Rainbow do you care about these children and their mental well being? Regardless of what their parents did do you care? What statute is that and where does it say anything about children?
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Post by missmiss on Jun 20, 2018 2:20:04 GMT
(a) Improper time or place; avoidance of examination or inspection; misrepresentation and concealment of facts Any alien who (1) enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers, or (2) eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers, or (3) attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact, shall, for the first commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18 or imprisoned not more than 6 months, or both, and, for a subsequent commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18, or imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both. (b) Improper time or place; civil penaltiesAny alien who is apprehended while entering (or attempting to enter) the United States at a time or place other than as designated by immigration officers shall be subject to a civil penalty of— (1) at least $50 and not more than $250 for each such entry (or attempted entry); or (2) twice the amount specified in paragraph (1) in the case of an alien who has been previously subject to a civil penalty under this subsection. Civil penalties under this subsection are in addition to, and not in lieu of, any criminal or other civil penalties that may be imposed. Key word up there is OR. Parents DO NOT have to be separated from their children. Our government decided to do this. I don't care when it started and who started it. It isn't right. Should they cross the boarder illegally? Of course not. I do not know anyone who thinks we should just have an open boarder and anyone can cross. Rainbow do you care about these children and their mental well being? Regardless of what their parents did do you care? What statute is that and where does it say anything about children?U.S. Code › Title 8 › Chapter 12 › Subchapter II › Part VIII › § 1325 8 U.S. Code § 1325 - Improper entry by alien Want to answer the question now? Rainbow do you care about these children and their mental well being regardless of what their parents did?
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Post by 50offscrapper on Jun 20, 2018 2:28:06 GMT
So if you “break” the law, your kids should be taken from you before you get tried and convicted? Got it. Ivanka and Jared kids should be taken from them. Barron too then by that standard. It happens all the time. People who commit crimes are separated from society. This is nothing new. Don't like it then don't break the law.1. Innocent before proven guilty is an american concept? What dictatorship are you from? 2. Seeking asylum is not breaking the law. 3. If you are a believer, you better familiarize yourself what God’s word. You ever sin? Yes, I know the answer to that. Well then what should your punishment be then? Go read the parable of the unforgiving servant. Because God is merciful to me and forgiving to me, I need to be merciful. You can make your own choice. 4. The “punishment” you profess for others will be the very law that will judge you. Go read Esther and then find out what happens to those who build gallows. I would also suggest you might want to think long and hard about you are afraid of. Are you really scared of people who come and pick food of us? People who clean hotel rooms? People who are just trying to make a living. Go look at crime statistics in the border cities and compare to other cities. On a per capita basis, border cities are safer.
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Post by 50offscrapper on Jun 20, 2018 2:33:48 GMT
These families coming across the border illegally aren't doing it wholly on their own. I believe that people are whispering in their ear to do it. "Go to the Land of Milk and Honey and the US will care for you and your children."
And this is where the problem lies. Do you really think that these people are coming to the United States so the US will “care for them”? I live in Texas, and teach in a dual language school, so I am surrounded by immigrant families. And let me tell you, these are some of the hardest working people I know. They work 2, even 3 jobs to support their families. All of the custodians at my school and all of the cafeteria workers are fairly recent immigrants from Mexico or Central America. They work hard. They love their families. They are not freeloaders. They are not criminals. And whether you want to believe it or not, these immigrants ARE working jobs around here that real “Americans“ don’t want – picking our food, cleaning our houses, mowing our lawns, building our houses. They are GRATEFUL for the opportunity. And everyone around here is hiring right now – so clearly there is not a shortage of jobs. As far as their children—they get them to school every day and make sure that they are RESPECTFUL and WORK HARD— because they want their children to get an education and have a better life than they did. Isn’t that what we all want? The main arguments I hear against allowing more immigration and asylum-seekers is that they will be a drain on our welfare system and that they will take “our” jobs. Around here, I see no evidence of that. As a matter of fact, my family and I were driving around town on Sunday. We have a fairly significant homeless population, and there are people begging on nearly every single corner. Do you know how many Latino people I saw begging for money? Exactly NONE. There were a few African-Americans, but most of them were white. We live a life of immeasurable privilege here in the United States. No matter how “bad” we think our lives are, they cannot possibly compare to what these people are leaving behind in their home countries. We have no idea what it feels like to not be able to send your child to school because you fear that they will be kidnapped and held for ransom or recruited into a gang. We do not have rival drug cartels have in shootouts in our neighborhoods. People seeking asylum from Central America are not coming here to mooch off of you or your family, and they are not coming here to start their own neighborhood drug cartel. They are coming here to escape unspeakable violence and start a new life. I think if we could understand that, and have some empathy, we would view the immigration “crisis” in a different light. Wow. So well put!
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Jun 20, 2018 3:05:33 GMT
Babies!! Toddlers!! Youngest migrants held in 'tender age' sheltersBy GARANCE BURKE AND MARTHA MENDOZA | Associated Press| June 19, 2018 The influx of child immigrants in response to the Trump administration's zero-tolerance enforcement policy has prompted authorities to open at least three "tender-age" shelters in South Texas. There are plans to open a fourth shelter to house hundreds of young migrant children in Houston, where city leaders denounced the move Tuesday. The Associated Press has learned the locations of three child shelters in Texas' Rio Grande Valley, in Combes, Raymondville and Brownsville. They have been rapidly repurposed to serve needs of children including some under 5. Houston Mayor Sylvester Turner says the location in his city would house up to 240 children in a warehouse previously used for people displaced by Hurricane Harvey. Lawyers and medical providers who have visited the Rio Grande Valley shelters described play rooms of crying preschool-age children in crisis. www.foxnews.com/us/2018/06/19/youngest-migrants-held-in-tender-age-shelters.htmlPeople displaced by Harvey were NOT babies and toddlers with out parents or immediate family of some sort, like an adult known to the child! True trauma for these kids....
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Post by leftturnonly on Jun 20, 2018 3:45:01 GMT
Oh, Goody! Bible School time. 1) I am the Lord thy God... Thou shalt have no other gods before me. 2) Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image; you shall not make for yourself any idol, nor bow down to it or worship it. 3) Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain. 4) Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 5) Honor thy father and thy mother. 6) Thou shalt not kill. 7) Thou shalt not commit adultery. 8) Thou shalt not steal. 9) Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor. 10) Thou shalt not covet. Not your neighbor's house, nor spouse, nor anything that belongs to your neighbor. Looks like the Democrat platform to me.
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Post by leftturnonly on Jun 20, 2018 4:24:33 GMT
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cycworker
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,409
Jun 26, 2014 0:42:38 GMT
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Post by cycworker on Jun 20, 2018 7:34:10 GMT
Schumer is 100% right. Try to go around Trump and he will just use an executive order. He wants his wall - which won't work and is just an ego thing for Trump - and he's willing to use kids as pawns to do it.
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Rainbow
Pearl Clutcher
Where salt is in the air and sand is at my feet...
Posts: 4,103
Jun 26, 2014 5:57:41 GMT
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Post by Rainbow on Jun 20, 2018 9:09:03 GMT
What statute is that and where does it say anything about children? U.S. Code › Title 8 › Chapter 12 › Subchapter II › Part VIII › § 1325 8 U.S. Code § 1325 - Improper entry by alien Want to answer the question now? Rainbow do you care about these children and their mental well being regardless of what their parents did? Of course I care about all children but I don't see what this statute says about children.
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Rainbow
Pearl Clutcher
Where salt is in the air and sand is at my feet...
Posts: 4,103
Jun 26, 2014 5:57:41 GMT
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Post by Rainbow on Jun 20, 2018 9:21:44 GMT
It happens all the time. People who commit crimes are separated from society. This is nothing new. Don't like it then don't break the law. 1. Innocent before proven guilty is an american concept? What dictatorship are you from? 2. Seeking asylum is not breaking the law. 3. If you are a believer, you better familiarize yourself what God’s word. You ever sin? Yes, I know the answer to that. Well then what should your punishment be then? Go read the parable of the unforgiving servant. Because God is merciful to me and forgiving to me, I need to be merciful. You can make your own choice. 4. The “punishment” you profess for others will be the very law that will judge you. Go read Esther and then find out what happens to those who build gallows. I would also suggest you might want to think long and hard about you are afraid of. Are you really scared of people who come and pick food of us? People who clean hotel rooms? People who are just trying to make a living. Go look at crime statistics in the border cities and compare to other cities. On a per capita basis, border cities are safer. Many countries have people detained until they can be processed. I don't know of any countries that don't do this. And I expect to be punished if I enter a country illegally. It's not a new concept.
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Post by cade387 on Jun 20, 2018 10:49:21 GMT
Oh, Goody! Bible School time. 1) I am the Lord thy God... Thou shalt have no other gods before me. 2) Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image; you shall not make for yourself any idol, nor bow down to it or worship it. 3) Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain. 4) Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 5) Honor thy father and thy mother. 6) Thou shalt not kill. 7) Thou shalt not commit adultery. 8) Thou shalt not steal. 9) Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor. 10) Thou shalt not covet. Not your neighbor's house, nor spouse, nor anything that belongs to your neighbor. Looks like the Democrat platform to me. It certainly doesn’t look like the Republican platform. That party is no longer able to call themselves conservative nor the party of family values. There is no focus on being fiscally conservative nor is there focus on being pro-life or family first. I’d love to see someone emerge who looks to do just that - from either party or from another.
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Deleted
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Nov 25, 2024 17:44:04 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2018 12:17:09 GMT
I just saw a clip of Chris Pratt's speech at the MTV awards. What a refreshing break from the new norm of politics at awards shows and politics being the focus of acceptance speeches!
I could have done without the "poop" part though, lol.
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Post by mom on Jun 20, 2018 12:26:59 GMT
I just saw a clip of Chris Pratt's speech at the MTV awards. What a refreshing break from the new norm of politics at awards shows and politics being the focus of acceptance speeches!
I could have done without the "poop" part though, lol.
Oh that’s good!
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Post by mom on Jun 20, 2018 12:41:19 GMT
Conservatives who think its ok to have the children separated:
I am genuinely curious about something, and I would like to understand how you balance your belief that children should be taken care of by the US Government but also hold on to the idea that the government should be limited. How do you manage both of those ideas? As it is right now, the US Government is being a babysitter (and definitely not a good babysitter, at that) for these children. If you believe big government is wrong, why is it ok for them to be the government babysitter? Would it not be better to allow those parents who are seeking asylum to parent their child than some random government worker?
The reality is our government is going to lose some of these children and not be able to reunite them with their families. Which means that the children will become part of our system - needing Government insurance, services, food stamps, etc. Costing all of us resources.
And before someone starts making claims I am a liberal trying to stir the pot, I am not. I *am* one of you, on most instances, and this is why I do want to understand. I am not going to call you names, make jokes at your expense, or any crap like that.
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Post by lisacharlotte on Jun 20, 2018 13:05:20 GMT
Conservatives who think its ok to have the children separated: I am genuinely curious about something, and I would like to understand how you balance your belief that children should be taken care of by the US Government but also hold on to the idea that the government should be limited. How do you manage both of those ideas? As it is right now, the US Government is being a babysitter (and definitely not a good babysitter, at that) for these children. If you believe big government is wrong, why is it ok for them to be the government babysitter? Would it not be better to allow those parents who are seeking asylum to parent their child than some random government worker? The reality is our government is going to lose some of these children and not be able to reunite them with their families. Which means that the children will become part of our system - needing Government insurance, services, food stamps, etc. Costing all of us resources. And before someone starts making claims I am a liberal trying to stir the pot, I am not. I *am* one of you, on most instances, and this is why I do want to understand. I am not going to call you names, make jokes at your expense, or any crap like that. the federal government is in charge of the nation’s security. That’s the main principle of small government. Border security is part of national security.
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Post by mom on Jun 20, 2018 13:07:56 GMT
Conservatives who think its ok to have the children separated: I am genuinely curious about something, and I would like to understand how you balance your belief that children should be taken care of by the US Government but also hold on to the idea that the government should be limited. How do you manage both of those ideas? As it is right now, the US Government is being a babysitter (and definitely not a good babysitter, at that) for these children. If you believe big government is wrong, why is it ok for them to be the government babysitter? Would it not be better to allow those parents who are seeking asylum to parent their child than some random government worker? The reality is our government is going to lose some of these children and not be able to reunite them with their families. Which means that the children will become part of our system - needing Government insurance, services, food stamps, etc. Costing all of us resources. And before someone starts making claims I am a liberal trying to stir the pot, I am not. I *am* one of you, on most instances, and this is why I do want to understand. I am not going to call you names, make jokes at your expense, or any crap like that. the federal government is in charge of the nation’s security. That’s the main principle of small government. Border security is part of national security. Yes. I agree. But do you really think that separating the kids from their parents is the only way to protect the border? Or maybe I should ask: how is separating the kids from their parents protecting the border? SaveSave
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Jun 20, 2018 13:19:13 GMT
Why are they ignoring Feinstein’s bill? This article seems like an opinion piece. A biased one at that.
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Post by dewryce on Jun 20, 2018 14:58:19 GMT
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2018 15:12:58 GMT
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Post by mom on Jun 20, 2018 15:19:56 GMT
Thanks for sharing this. I will go read it and think about it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2018 15:27:13 GMT
I really think OUR congress, whether they are republicans or democrats need to come up with a unified plan to get this practice taken off the table, AND keep illegal immigrants OUT OF OUR COUNTRY. If they want to come to our country, do it the right way. I'm not against immigrants. I live in a neighborhood FULL of immigrants! I love them! They are my friends. My next door neighbor actually was brought here by his parents when he was just a little guy, and he's one man I know that was pardoned by Reagan years ago--and he has become a US citizen. His family is wonderful. Across the street is another immigrant family. I don't know them as well, but they seem like really nice people. The people on the other side of us are half immigrants. The people behind us are also immigrants. We've had no problems with any of these people! They are great neighbors.
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Deleted
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Nov 25, 2024 17:44:04 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2018 16:12:24 GMT
Conservatives who think its ok to have the children separated: I am genuinely curious about something, and I would like to understand how you balance your belief that children should be taken care of by the US Government but also hold on to the idea that the government should be limited. How do you manage both of those ideas? As it is right now, the US Government is being a babysitter (and definitely not a good babysitter, at that) for these children. If you believe big government is wrong, why is it ok for them to be the government babysitter? Would it not be better to allow those parents who are seeking asylum to parent their child than some random government worker? The reality is our government is going to lose some of these children and not be able to reunite them with their families. Which means that the children will become part of our system - needing Government insurance, services, food stamps, etc. Costing all of us resources. And before someone starts making claims I am a liberal trying to stir the pot, I am not. I *am* one of you, on most instances, and this is why I do want to understand. I am not going to call you names, make jokes at your expense, or any crap like that. Since those seeking asylum that come thru the proper way don't have their families split, I'm not discussing those families.
There are roughly 12,000 kids being held right now. 10,000 of them came unaccompanied, so I'm not talking about them. That's an entirely different situation.
We've all seen the pictures, and those pictures tell a very sad story. Now I want to know the rest of the stories.
How many of these "parents" have a valid way to prove who they are? IF we can't easily verify, the kids would be removed temporarily and IMO rightfully so. How many of these 2,000 fall into that category?
We have to verify these kids actually belong with these adults. How long does that take? We all want the kids safe, so we have to be vigilant. The harder to verify I guess will determine how long the kids might be separated.
Next, how many of these parents are repeat offenders? Those that are have now committed a more serious crime, and their kids will be separated. That's nothing new with and should be expected.
Those are the statistics I'd like to know.
In addition, I heard there's a 600,000 case backlog on asylum requests. What are we supposed to do with these families while they wait? Catch and Release, under Bush and then reinstated under Obama, was a bad frickin' idea. The number of people that actually return to court to have their cases heard is extremely low. If they are let go, expect them to disappear.
My final point, something I heard Jason Chaffetz point out this morning, and I hadn't thought of, those seeking asylum are completely bypassing the US embassies in their countries of origin. Why? Why take such a long and dangerous trip, past the embassies, thru Mexico which offers asylum, to come here illegally? Because we don't have control over our immigration system, and they know it. They know our shortcomings and are counting on it.
These issues have been going for so long, under both democrats and republicans, and here we are again. It's spiraling out of control.
***eta*** To clarify about the embassies, those living in other countries can seek asylum AT the US embassies in their OWN countries, without having to make the long journey here. I'll assume they could go to a number of other countries' embassies and make the same request, yet they choose not to.
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lindas
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,306
Jun 26, 2014 5:46:37 GMT
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Post by lindas on Jun 20, 2018 16:27:48 GMT
Just heard that Trump is getting ready to sign an executive order today putting an end to separation of parents and children at the border.
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