mamater
Shy Member
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Post by mamater on Jun 21, 2018 0:42:56 GMT
Conservatives who think its ok to have the children separated: I am genuinely curious about something, and I would like to understand how you balance your belief that children should be taken care of by the US Government but also hold on to the idea that the government should be limited. How do you manage both of those ideas? As it is right now, the US Government is being a babysitter (and definitely not a good babysitter, at that) for these children. If you believe big government is wrong, why is it ok for them to be the government babysitter? Would it not be better to allow those parents who are seeking asylum to parent their child than some random government worker? The reality is our government is going to lose some of these children and not be able to reunite them with their families. Which means that the children will become part of our system - needing Government insurance, services, food stamps, etc. Costing all of us resources. And before someone starts making claims I am a liberal trying to stir the pot, I am not. I *am* one of you, on most instances, and this is why I do want to understand. I am not going to call you names, make jokes at your expense, or any crap like that. I'm conservative. The rest of your question doesn't really apply to me, though, so all I can do is give you my limited perspective at this moment. In general, I see this specific new policy of separation as temporary and possibly even already addressed by actions taken by President Trump today and/or hopefully, future actions by the Congress. In general, not specifically what has been deemed news-worthy the past several days... Not all of those coming to our border's edge with children are actual families. Many of these children are not the child(ren) of those attempting to enter the country. It's a horrific situation that unfortunately is real. Mixed among those persons, whether they are in honest family units or alone and who are truly seeking a better life, are those who are some of the evilest, most corrupt on the planet. No horror is too great to inflict on someone else by them if there is money and power to be gained. I don't have a link for you, but I have heard a border agent speak about the number of children who are - in his words - simply dropped as soon as the person accompanying them gets what they can from having them along - which is easier entry into the country. And that's not even counting the number of children who are taken against their family's will and are brought in to the US as cheap free labor or worse, are sold into the illicit sex trade. Once here, too many of the children are lost track of and too many of the adults never show up for their hearings. We let them in and they simply disappear into the throng. We can not continue to turn blind eyes to the destructive nature of the evil that continues to come across our border hiding among the good people who need help. There are children at the border that need to be taken not from loving families but from those who prey on them. On top of that, the number seeking asylum has skyrocketed in recent years. The backlog is something like 600,000 people waiting to go through the system. The "cages" are the same as the "cages" around school playgrounds all across America, and children are/were there for a short time on a temporary basis. Most are reunited with their families in a matter of hours. Those who aren't reunited join other children, who either were abandoned soon after entering or who came into this country alone, in facilities/group homes where they are kept safe, clean, fed, and are taught English and a bit about America, and are given time to play. It's far from ideal, but they are treated far better than too many of our own children who are living in abject poverty, so it certainly could be far worse. Do I want families separated, with children "ripped from loving arms". No. I'm still haunted by this image of Elian Gonzales.  Is that what we're dealing with here? Battle-ready soldiers are breaking into people's homes and taking these children at the point of an assault weapon? You know, like what really happened in WWII. 
This comparison to concentration camps being repeated everywhere is a true sin against the millions who suffered unspeakable hardships. The families that survive such terrible loss and the memory of those who did not survive all deserve better.When actual survivors of the Holocaust speak out against this policy, are they sinning against themselves? |
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Post by Skellinton on Jun 21, 2018 0:45:23 GMT
So, I've searched here and what a surprise; not a word from our liberal peas about Peter Fonda tweeting about kidnapping and torturing Baron Trump. "We should rip Barron Trump from his mother's arms and put him in a cage with pedophiles and see if mother will will stand up against the giant a--hole she is married to. 90 million people in the streets on the same weekend in the country. F---," Fonda wrote in a tweet, which has since been deleted Just because I think it is important to see what he actually said because it is quite a bit different then what Lauren posted. I personally am not ok with his tweet and I don’t think anyone, no matter their political persuasion, should be. I don’t think any liberals here would be ok with it either. You say you haven’t seen anyone talking about it, and I assume you mean no one has denounced it, but you also don’t see anyone celebrating it or agreeing with it either. There is a lot going on today, and frankly this tweet, posted and deleted by someone with no political power or really any current notoriety is pretty low on the list of things to post about. |
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Post by Belia on Jun 21, 2018 0:56:19 GMT
So, I've searched here and what a surprise; not a word from our liberal peas about Peter Fonda tweeting about kidnapping and torturing Baron Trump. "We should rip Barron Trump from his mother's arms and put him in a cage with pedophiles and see if mother will will stand up against the giant a--hole she is married to. 90 million people in the streets on the same weekend in the country. F---," Fonda wrote in a tweet, which has since been deleted Just because I think it is important to see what he actually said because it is quite a bit different then what Lauren posted. Wait... so I'm supposed to be more outraged about the DESCRIPTION of a hypothetical act that never occurred and never will than the ACTUAL act of kidnapping and torture that is ACTUALLY HAPPENING right now within our borders? Children BT's age ACTUALLY WERE "ripped from their mother's arms and put in a cage." Many of them. Sorry- I'll save my outrage for that. Peter Fonda is an irrelevant jackass. The authorities can do what they will with his tweet. Whatever. |
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Post by pierkiss on Jun 21, 2018 1:03:19 GMT
So, I've searched here and what a surprise; not a word from our liberal peas about Peter Fonda tweeting about kidnapping and torturing Baron Trump. Actaually, of all of Peter Fonda’s vile tweets today, the one about Barron was probably the least offensive. Don’t get me wrong, EVERYTHING he said today was completely disgusting and totally uncalled for. I’m not sure how I feel about Melania contacting secret service, as I don’t think it was an actual threat. More of a “musing” that someone else should..., not that he himself would. But maybe it’s good that she did contact them about it. Barron should absolutely not be targeted for anything his parents are or aren’t doing. There Ms no need for that. Ever. But really, your surprised nobody here is talking about Peter Fonda’s tweets? There are bigger fish to fry today, and they don’t include repulsive tweets from old entitled actors riding on their daddy’s coattails. |
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Jun 21, 2018 1:19:39 GMT
Fonda's tweets have been addressed just not on this particular thread.
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Post by mom on Jun 21, 2018 1:22:57 GMT
leftturnonly Thank you for replying. We probably agree on more than we disagree.
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Post by mom on Jun 21, 2018 1:24:38 GMT
Fonda's tweets have been addressed just not on this particular thread. Not a liberal, but I called him a fucking jackass. On this thread. SaveSave |
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Post by tara on Jun 21, 2018 1:34:37 GMT
Don't. You don't have to tell me anything else. You aren't very smart, likely one of those Americans whose family has remained working class for generations despite educational opportunities and privilege. You can never get ahead and blame everyone except yourself. You think this administration will somehow change your lot in life and that diminished level of intelligence won't allow you to see whats really going on. "These why-did-people-vote-for-Trump studies are clarifying, but also a little bit unsatisfying, from the point of view of a politician. They dispel the fiction—to use another 2016 meme—that the majority of Trump supporters are disenfranchised victims of capitalism’s cruelties. At the same time, deep-seated psychological resentment is harder for policy makers to address than an overly meager disability check. You can teach out-of-work coal miners to code, but you may not be able to convince them to embrace changing racial and gender norms. You can offer universal basic incomes, but that won’t ameliorate resentment of demographic changes. In other words, it’s now pretty clear that many Trump supporters feel threatened, frustrated, and marginalized—not on an economic, but on an existential level. Now what?" www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2018/04/existential-anxiety-not-poverty-motivates-trump-support/558674/What a bunch of absolute baloney! Your post says a lot more about you than it does me. Well I can’t say anything about the insult she put on you because I don’t know you, but everything else she posted was damn straight. My family is from poor south. They all worship Trump like he was the messiah. My parents moved away in 1965. The family was so jealous because my mom had a working toilet. Her mom hated the fact that my mom never would move back. They tried to get her to. I had a relative that wanted to get out and people talked terrible about him. I asked my grandmother why. Doesn’t people down here want better for their children? You know what she said? “You might live in a big fancy house and drive a fancy car but you have to remember where you came from girl.” Yeah I remember where I came from. My mom remembered. She wanted better for me and I love and want better for my kids. That family just didn’t have the guts to leave their miserable lives and try to better themselves. They just want to piss and moan and be jealous of everyone else. Trump played into that. “I’m for you”. He said. “I’ll put the coal miners back to work” he said. So far nothing has changed. |
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Post by redhead32 on Jun 21, 2018 2:33:47 GMT
I'm conservative. The rest of your question doesn't really apply to me, though, so all I can do is give you my limited perspective at this moment. In general, I see this specific new policy of separation as temporary and possibly even already addressed by actions taken by President Trump today and/or hopefully, future actions by the Congress. In general, not specifically what has been deemed news-worthy the past several days... Not all of those coming to our border's edge with children are actual families. Many of these children are not the child(ren) of those attempting to enter the country. It's a horrific situation that unfortunately is real. Mixed among those persons, whether they are in honest family units or alone and who are truly seeking a better life, are those who are some of the evilest, most corrupt on the planet. No horror is too great to inflict on someone else by them if there is money and power to be gained. I don't have a link for you, but I have heard a border agent speak about the number of children who are - in his words - simply dropped as soon as the person accompanying them gets what they can from having them along - which is easier entry into the country. And that's not even counting the number of children who are taken against their family's will and are brought in to the US as cheap free labor or worse, are sold into the illicit sex trade.
Once here, too many of the children are lost track of and too many of the adults never show up for their hearings. We let them in and they simply disappear into the throng. We can not continue to turn blind eyes to the destructive nature of the evil that continues to come across our border hiding among the good people who need help. There are children at the border that need to be taken not from loving families but from those who prey on them. On top of that, the number seeking asylum has skyrocketed in recent years. The backlog is something like 600,000 people waiting to go through the system. The "cages" are the same as the "cages" around school playgrounds all across America, and children are/were there for a short time on a temporary basis. Most are reunited with their families in a matter of hours. Those who aren't reunited join other children, who either were abandoned soon after entering or who came into this country alone, in facilities/group homes where they are kept safe, clean, fed, and are taught English and a bit about America, and are given time to play. It's far from ideal, but they are treated far better than too many of our own children who are living in abject poverty, so it certainly could be far worse. Do I want families separated, with children "ripped from loving arms". No. I'm still haunted by this image of Elian Gonzales. Is that what we're dealing with here? Battle-ready soldiers are breaking into people's homes and taking these children at the point of an assault weapon? You know, like what really happened in WWII.
This comparison to concentration camps being repeated everywhere is a true sin against the millions who suffered unspeakable hardships. The families that survive such terrible loss and the memory of those who did not survive all deserve better.When actual survivors of the Holocaust speak out against this policy, are they sinning against themselves?The bolded part - this is the new talking point. The separation from adults was done to save the children, to protect them from trafficking. Never mind the psychological trauma and damage inflicted. Collateral damage, of course. And, of course, this talking point has only really been making its rounds during the last 24 hours. It wasn't a talking point during the days and weeks leading up today. Hell, the official position of the administration was that there wasn't a policy to separate children. Also. Elian Gonzales. He was taken at gunpoint TO BE RETURNED TO HIS FATHER. It is apples and oranges. And as for not comparing this to the holocaust? Okay. How about Japanese internment? When our government decided to round people up based on fear and misinformation and put them in camps? George Takei was one of the Japanese Americans taken. He has some pretty strong words for this current administration's policy. So do many other Japanese Americans that were forced into camps or are descendants of those forced into camps. Some of them said that at least they were allowed to stay with their parents when they were placed in detention, unlike the children separated at the border today. It makes me want to vomit that people are still supporting this policy. Trump lied has ass off - said he couldn't stop it, until he stopped it. And now some news media are reporting they have access to documents that he floated this separation policy a month after his inauguration. It is morally reprehensible and disgusting to be a nation that condones ripping children from their families, for ANY justification. |
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Post by katieanna on Jun 21, 2018 2:42:16 GMT
There's nothing wrong with anyone who tries to better himself; in fact, I applaud it. That's the ideal that made this country great to begin with.
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katybee
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,468
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Post by katybee on Jun 21, 2018 2:47:50 GMT
So, I've searched here and what a surprise; not a word from our liberal peas about Peter Fonda tweeting about kidnapping and torturing Baron Trump. I don’t even know who he is. I mean I figured he was related to Jane Fonda, but didn’t know how. I looked him up on IMDB just now and I haven’t seen any of his movies. I’ve only seen 2 or 3 of Jane Fonda’s movies. So what he tweeted was reprehensible. But he’s not at all on my radar, so why would I respond? |
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Olan
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by Olan on Jun 21, 2018 3:08:38 GMT
There's nothing wrong with anyone who tries to better himself; in fact, I applaud it. That's the ideal that made this country great to begin with. Right. Keep telling yourself that. This country was never great and if it ever was it's because of immigrants like the ones we are placing in cages or hell my ancestors who did the back breaking work that built this country. You guys can't figure out the "better yourself" part to save your lives. Foreign born people come to the U.S. and with all kinds of cards stacked against em yet manage to spend one generation (at most) un-educated compared to the generations of coal miners/factory workers. It's likely because you operate from a place of lack. Feeling like there aren't enough resources for everyone again because of a diminished level of intelligence. You'd never question millionaires like 45 though. You admire him when he's got his foot on your neck. He brought back coal because he knows if he keeps you disenfranchised and hating everyone his agenda goes over much more smoothly. |
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Post by #notLauren on Jun 21, 2018 4:21:34 GMT
I really think Olan is mentally ill. Her need to berate white people over and over again is not normal.
I'm putting her on ignore. Other white people (especially conservative and Republican white people whom she seems to hate most of all) might want to consider doing the same. She is hell-bent on derailing this thread.
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Post by #notLauren on Jun 21, 2018 4:23:10 GMT
So, I've searched here and what a surprise; not a word from our liberal peas about Peter Fonda tweeting about kidnapping and torturing Baron Trump. I don’t even know who he is. I mean I figured he was related to Jane Fonda, but didn’t know how. I looked him up on IMDB just now and I haven’t seen any of his movies. I’ve only seen 2 or 3 of Jane Fonda’s movies. So what he tweeted was reprehensible. But he’s not at all on my radar, so why would I respond? I'm willing to accept that. But there are a lot of older peas on this board who know full well who Peter Fonda is. Given all the hoopla about children, I'm appalled (not surprised, but still appalled) that they are silent in the face of someone who speaks of kidnapping and torturing the President's 11 year old child. And I love the typical liberal double standard. I'm supposed to cheer because although they didn't denounce his comments, they didn't celebrate them. The same people who denounce anyone who doesn't denounce every single thing Trump does. Hypocrites. And Skelleton thinks that somehow her bullshit has credibility because she refers to me as Lauren. Get off our thread and go find another one to pollute. |
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Post by katieanna on Jun 21, 2018 4:46:29 GMT
There's nothing wrong with anyone who tries to better himself; in fact, I applaud it. That's the ideal that made this country great to begin with. Right. Keep telling yourself that. This country was never great and if it ever was it's because of immigrants like the ones we are placing in cages or hell my ancestors who did the back breaking work that built this country. You guys can't figure out the "better yourself" part to save your lives. Foreign born people come to the U.S. and with all kinds of cards stacked against em yet manage to spend one generation (at most) un-educated compared to the generations of coal miners/factory workers. It's likely because you operate from a place of lack. Feeling like there aren't enough resources for everyone again because of a diminished level of intelligence. You'd never question millionaires like 45 though. You admire him when he's got his foot on your neck. He brought back coal because he knows if he keeps you disenfranchised and hating everyone his agenda goes over much more smoothly. Olan, honestly, Girl, get a hold of yourself. You are so off base that we're not even in the same ballfield. Your assumptions about me are just that - assumptions. If foreign-born people come here with "so much stacked against them" and the USA keeps treating them so badly, then why do they keep coming? If you despise this country so much as your posts seem to indicate, then why do you even want to live here? You come across on this board (to me anyway) as having such a huge chip on your shoulders that I don't even know how to answer you. And quite frankly, I come to this thread to discuss the issues with those who hold similar views as I do. If I wanted to get into a "p!ssing match" with liberals, heaven knows there are plenty of other threads on this board to do so. No one wants to see children "torn" from their parents. It would be wonderful if we could open our collective arms to every single truly disenfranchised person in the world and provide everything they need to make a fresh start... But we can only do so much. There are limits to everything because we don't live in a perfect world. No matter what you do, how much you accomplish, there will always be mistakes; nothing is perfect. I don't live anywhere near the border so I don't know first-hand how bad the situation is. I can imagine that if the numbers are anywhere near what they say it is, then it must be chaotic at best. I don't know why they put children in "cages" but from what I've heard, there are extenuating circumstances involving more than just people crossing the border. And no matter what, I'm sure there's a lot more involved than we even know about. And, no, I don't trust the media. There's substantial evidence that the media manipulates the news to sway public opinion. The more "dramatic" the persuasion, the less I trust it. I'm tired...tired of being called racist, unfeeling, bigoted...whatever-the-term-of-the-day-to-berate is in vogue, shouted from the streets, the airwaves, television, the web, facebook, twitter, blogs, and more, over, and over, and over again. I want a place to discuss the issues, but it's impossible to discuss the issues with people whose viewpoint is 180 degrees different from my own. |
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Post by #notLauren on Jun 21, 2018 4:48:59 GMT
Hopefully, you'll stay out Pink Lady
. But that's like wishing for unicorns....ain't gonna happen.
To quote Arnold "she'll be back".
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Post by tara on Jun 21, 2018 5:39:44 GMT
I really think Olan is mentally ill. Her need to berate white people over and over again is not normal. I'm putting her on ignore. Other white people (especially conservative and Republican white people whom she seems to hate most of all) might want to consider doing the same. She is hell-bent on derailing this thread. I know in this instance she is right. She described my family to a tee. Poor white trash that has no gumption but hate blacks because...well I don’t know. I guess because their mommy told them to. I’m the black sheep (no pun intended) because I don’t think like they do and call them out on their crazy crap. |
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Deleted
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Nov 25, 2024 11:38:17 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2018 8:44:20 GMT
Some of you seem to forget that Obama had a hostile GOP senate and house who shut down everything he tried to do for 8 years. Go ahead and blame Obama..I know it makes you justified. But Obama never separated families. Kids stayed with mothers unless they arrived unaccompanied by a relative. To keep putting your head in the sand is, well, deplorable. And before Lauren goes batshit and on another tirade, I'm out. Yes, he did. The Alien Transfer Exit Program ramped up under Obama. A policy of detaining male Mexican immigrants near the border and instead of taking them back where they came in, they were put on airplanes and taken hundreds, if not thousands of miles from where they came in and often dropped in the middle of the night in unfamiliar areas with no family or support- as a deterrent. They were separated from their wife and/or children, put in dangerous situations and no one was told where their husband/father or wife/children were causing them to be separated for months. Obama also used the same "cages" and sleeping on the floor with nothing but a thermal blanket to sleep on. The same conditions that Trump is being called evil, cruel and heartless for. So, either they're both evil, cruel and heartless for separating families and housing them in cages, or the labels are wrong. If it applies to one, it applies to the other. If it doesn't apply to one, it doesn't apply to the other. |
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Deleted
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Nov 25, 2024 11:38:17 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2018 8:48:48 GMT
So, I've searched here and what a surprise; not a word from our liberal peas about Peter Fonda tweeting about kidnapping and torturing Baron Trump. "We should rip Barron Trump from his mother's arms and put him in a cage with pedophiles and see if mother will will stand up against the giant a--hole she is married to. 90 million people in the streets on the same weekend in the country. F---," Fonda wrote in a tweet, which has since been deleted Just because I think it is important to see what he actually said because it is quite a bit different then what Lauren posted. I personally am not ok with his tweet and I don’t think anyone, no matter their political persuasion, should be. I don’t think any liberals here would be ok with it either. You say you haven’t seen anyone talking about it, and I assume you mean no one has denounced it, but you also don’t see anyone celebrating it or agreeing with it either. There is a lot going on today, and frankly this tweet, posted and deleted by someone with no political power or really any current notoriety is pretty low on the list of things to post about. "We should rip Barron Trump from his mother's arms and put him in a cage with pedophiles... Peter Fonda tweeting about kidnapping and torturing Baron Trump. Nope, the meaning is not different at all. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2018 11:14:12 GMT
Some of you seem to forget that Obama had a hostile GOP senate and house who shut down everything he tried to do for 8 years. Go ahead and blame Obama..I know it makes you justified. But Obama never separated families. Kids stayed with mothers unless they arrived unaccompanied by a relative. To keep putting your head in the sand is, well, deplorable. And before Lauren goes batshit and on another tirade, I'm out. Yes, he did. The Alien Transfer Exit Program ramped up under Obama. A policy of detaining male Mexican immigrants near the border and instead of taking them back where they came in, they were put on airplanes and taken hundreds, if not thousands of miles from where they came in and often dropped in the middle of the night in unfamiliar areas with no family or support- as a deterrent. They were separated from their wife and/or children, put in dangerous situations and no one was told where their husband/father or wife/children were causing them to be separated for months. Obama also used the same "cages" and sleeping on the floor with nothing but a thermal blanket to sleep on. The same conditions that Trump is being called evil, cruel and heartless for. So, either they're both evil, cruel and heartless for separating families and housing them in cages, or the labels are wrong. If it applies to one, it applies to the other. If it doesn't apply to one, it doesn't apply to the other. Thanks for sharing. I'd never heard of this. |
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Olan
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by Olan on Jun 21, 2018 11:40:31 GMT
Right. Keep telling yourself that. This country was never great and if it ever was it's because of immigrants like the ones we are placing in cages or hell my ancestors who did the back breaking work that built this country. You guys can't figure out the "better yourself" part to save your lives. Foreign born people come to the U.S. and with all kinds of cards stacked against em yet manage to spend one generation (at most) un-educated compared to the generations of coal miners/factory workers. It's likely because you operate from a place of lack. Feeling like there aren't enough resources for everyone again because of a diminished level of intelligence. You'd never question millionaires like 45 though. You admire him when he's got his foot on your neck. He brought back coal because he knows if he keeps you disenfranchised and hating everyone his agenda goes over much more smoothly. Olan, honestly, Girl, get a hold of yourself. You are so off base that we're not even in the same ballfield. Your assumptions about me are just that - assumptions. If foreign-born people come here with "so much stacked against them" and the USA keeps treating them so badly, then why do they keep coming? If you despise this country so much as your posts seem to indicate, then why do you even want to live here? You come across on this board (to me anyway) as having such a huge chip on your shoulders that I don't even know how to answer you. And quite frankly, I come to this thread to discuss the issues with those who hold similar views as I do. If I wanted to get into a "p!ssing match" with liberals, heaven knows there are plenty of other threads on this board to do so. No one wants to see children "torn" from their parents. It would be wonderful if we could open our collective arms to every single truly disenfranchised person in the world and provide everything they need to make a fresh start... But we can only do so much. There are limits to everything because we don't live in a perfect world. No matter what you do, how much you accomplish, there will always be mistakes; nothing is perfect. I don't live anywhere near the border so I don't know first-hand how bad the situation is. I can imagine that if the numbers are anywhere near what they say it is, then it must be chaotic at best. I don't know why they put children in "cages" but from what I've heard, there are extenuating circumstances involving more than just people crossing the border. And no matter what, I'm sure there's a lot more involved than we even know about. And, no, I don't trust the media. There's substantial evidence that the media manipulates the news to sway public opinion. The more "dramatic" the persuasion, the less I trust it. I'm tired...tired of being called racist, unfeeling, bigoted...whatever-the-term-of-the-day-to-berate is in vogue, shouted from the streets, the airwaves, television, the web, facebook, twitter, blogs, and more, over, and over, and over again. I want a place to discuss the issues, but it's impossible to discuss the issues with people whose viewpoint is 180 degrees different from my own. "I don't know why they put children in "cages" but from what I've heard, there are extenuating circumstances involving more than just people crossing the border. And no matter what, I'm sure there's a lot more involved than we even know about." There isn't more to the issue that either you or I can't comprehend. It's a simple right or wrong. The Republicans want you to think the issue is so complex simply because they have no intention of creating a viable solution. I don't know if there hearts are too small or if their brains are. You are smart enough to know children don't belong in cages away from their parents no matter the circumstance so why complicate a human rights issue? Also more people should be disillusioned with America. That doesn't mean for one second I am about to abandon my citizenship and leave this place for you guys to fuck up irreparably. My ancestors worked the land and died for my right to be here and live well. No one can take that from me! What did your ancestors do to Make America great? You do realize you are telling someone they can't live on land you stole from someone else right? "If foreign-born people come here with "so much stacked against them" and the USA keeps treating them so badly, then why do they keep coming?" An excerpt from a poem by Warsan Shire called "Home": no one leaves home unless home is the mouth of a shark. you only run for the border when you see the whole city running as well. your neighbours running faster than you, the boy you went to school with who kissed you dizzy behind the old tin factory is holding a gun bigger than his body, you only leave home when home won't let you stay. no one would leave home unless home chased you, fire under feet, hot blood in your belly. They keep coming because they have no other choices. And weve already established they do more with the cards they are given than American born. They make a way. They work hard and educate their children. Americans are constantly telling their sons they have nothing to look forward to except a brown person "stealing their job" and then wonder why they are angry and shooting up everyone. You breed that resentment, hand them a legally obtained gun and then when the death toll rises you blame the victims for "bullying". Sit with that for a second. And before anyone says I hate white people may I take a play from a racist white persons gamebook and let everyone know my ex-husband is a white man. My childhood friends were all white. I carpooled to HS with white people. I just don't think we are doing anyone any favors by not identifying the real issues. |
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Post by pierkiss on Jun 21, 2018 12:49:47 GMT
I just saw a clip of Chris Pratt's speech at the MTV awards. What a refreshing break from the new norm of politics at awards shows and politics being the focus of acceptance speeches!
I could have done without the "poop" part though, lol.
That was fantastic!! 😁 |
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Post by katieanna on Jun 21, 2018 13:13:55 GMT
You're talking about something that's been going on for a long time. If people really cared about the human rights issues of the immigrants, this problem would have been long solved years ago. The Republicans want their cheap labor and the Democrats want their votes.
This whole emotionally-charged outrage is for those who are either too blind or too ignorant to see past it.
Show me a country that hasn't had land "stolen", taken, deprivation what-have-you throughout the ages. It's the way of the world. "To the victor goes the spoils." And for your information, I bought and paid for the land I live on and continue to pay taxes on it. Quit making out that every white person on this board is somehow eternally indebted to you for something that occurred long before we were born.
To lump a particular peoples into one category proclaiming they're all either upstanding and hard-working and the other is not is not only dishonest, it's downright manipulative, especially to those who would believe that rhetoric.
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Post by redhead32 on Jun 21, 2018 13:25:58 GMT
Is this a justification to you? That it has been done in the past?
The "long before you were born" argument is problematic for me. Slavery might have ended long before we were born, but discriminatory policies and institutionalized racism did not. Redlining and anti- miscegenation laws existed during many of our lifetimes, and it is naive at best to think that the impacts have completely been repaired.
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katybee
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,468
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Post by katybee on Jun 21, 2018 13:41:47 GMT
To lump a particular peoples into one category proclaiming they're all either upstanding and hard-working and the other is not is not only dishonest, it's downright manipulative, especially to those who would believe that rhetoric. And some, I assume, are good people.... |
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Nov 25, 2024 11:38:17 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2018 13:53:09 GMT
I really think Olan is mentally ill. Her need to berate white people over and over again is not normal. I'm putting her on ignore. Other white people (especially conservative and Republican white people whom she seems to hate most of all) might want to consider doing the same. She is hell-bent on derailing this thread. I already did long ago.  |
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Post by Merge on Jun 21, 2018 14:05:28 GMT
Some of you seem to forget that Obama had a hostile GOP senate and house who shut down everything he tried to do for 8 years. Go ahead and blame Obama..I know it makes you justified. But Obama never separated families. Kids stayed with mothers unless they arrived unaccompanied by a relative. To keep putting your head in the sand is, well, deplorable. And before Lauren goes batshit and on another tirade, I'm out. Yes, he did. The Alien Transfer Exit Program ramped up under Obama. A policy of detaining male Mexican immigrants near the border and instead of taking them back where they came in, they were put on airplanes and taken hundreds, if not thousands of miles from where they came in and often dropped in the middle of the night in unfamiliar areas with no family or support- as a deterrent. They were separated from their wife and/or children, put in dangerous situations and no one was told where their husband/father or wife/children were causing them to be separated for months. Obama also used the same "cages" and sleeping on the floor with nothing but a thermal blanket to sleep on. The same conditions that Trump is being called evil, cruel and heartless for. So, either they're both evil, cruel and heartless for separating families and housing them in cages, or the labels are wrong. If it applies to one, it applies to the other. If it doesn't apply to one, it doesn't apply to the other. False equivalence. Moving adult men to a different city in their own home country, while kids are still at home with Mom, is not remotely the same thing as detaining entire families and separating the adults from the children, and then leaving the kids in this fenced area where adults are not allowed to touch or comfort them. Not the same thing at all. |
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Nov 25, 2024 11:38:17 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2018 16:45:03 GMT
Yes, he did. The Alien Transfer Exit Program ramped up under Obama. A policy of detaining male Mexican immigrants near the border and instead of taking them back where they came in, they were put on airplanes and taken hundreds, if not thousands of miles from where they came in and often dropped in the middle of the night in unfamiliar areas with no family or support- as a deterrent. They were separated from their wife and/or children, put in dangerous situations and no one was told where their husband/father or wife/children were causing them to be separated for months. Obama also used the same "cages" and sleeping on the floor with nothing but a thermal blanket to sleep on. The same conditions that Trump is being called evil, cruel and heartless for. So, either they're both evil, cruel and heartless for separating families and housing them in cages, or the labels are wrong. If it applies to one, it applies to the other. If it doesn't apply to one, it doesn't apply to the other. Yes, this happened. Obama wasn't a saint like some of our liberal friends like to think. He did some pretty deplorable things, and I think we haven't even heard of some of them yet. MAYBE the investigations going on will bring some light to some of them. |
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lindas
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,306
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Post by lindas on Jun 21, 2018 17:39:49 GMT
2015 court ruling regarding the Obama administration's detention of children and mothers. link. This is also going to come into play now unless the DOJ can get Judge Gee to increase the allowed detention time in her original ruling. |
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Post by katieanna on Jun 21, 2018 21:37:08 GMT
No justification...just stating a fact. Until you change human nature you will continue have wars with the more powerful lording it over the weak.
The only thing that will change it is to change the human heart. I can guarantee you (general) won't be changing anything through aggressive rhetoric and beating people over the head w/political correctness.
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