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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2018 22:57:52 GMT
Yes, he did. The Alien Transfer Exit Program ramped up under Obama. A policy of detaining male Mexican immigrants near the border and instead of taking them back where they came in, they were put on airplanes and taken hundreds, if not thousands of miles from where they came in and often dropped in the middle of the night in unfamiliar areas with no family or support- as a deterrent. They were separated from their wife and/or children, put in dangerous situations and no one was told where their husband/father or wife/children were causing them to be separated for months. Obama also used the same "cages" and sleeping on the floor with nothing but a thermal blanket to sleep on.False equivalence. Moving adult men to a different city in their own home country, while kids are still at home with Mom, is not remotely the same thing as detaining entire families and separating the adults from the children, and then leaving the kids in this fenced area where adults are not allowed to touch or comfort them. Not the same thing at all. The same damn thing. Yes, Obama DID separate families and leave them in detention while he deported the men in this "horrifically evil" policy. So yeah, the same conditions that Trump is being called evil, cruel and heartless for. So, either they're both evil, cruel and heartless for separating families and housing them in cages, or the labels are wrong. If it applies to one, it applies to the other. If it doesn't apply to one, it doesn't apply to the other. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2018 23:20:37 GMT
False equivalence. Moving adult men to a different city in their own home country, while kids are still at home with Mom, is not remotely the same thing as detaining entire families and separating the adults from the children, and then leaving the kids in this fenced area where adults are not allowed to touch or comfort them. Not the same thing at all. The same damn thing. Yes, Obama DID separate families and leave them in detention while he deported the men in this "horrifically evil" policy. So yeah, the same conditions that Trump is being called evil, cruel and heartless for. So, either they're both evil, cruel and heartless for separating families and housing them in cages, or the labels are wrong. If it applies to one, it applies to the other. If it doesn't apply to one, it doesn't apply to the other. I don't think the "other side" will ever see this Gia. They are all too busy looking for new ways to bash Trump AND Melania AND Baron AND the other grown offspring. Even though I didn't vote for him, he is still our president like it or not. I felt the same way about Obama. Didn't vote for him, but he was our president (unfortunately.) ugh!! |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2018 23:22:41 GMT
One thing I did admire about the media when Obama, Clinton and Bush were presidents--they seemed to leave the KIDS alone anyhow. (most of them anyhow).
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pinklady
Drama Llama
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Post by pinklady on Jun 21, 2018 23:26:19 GMT
One thing I did admire about the media when Obama, Clinton and Bush were presidents--they seemed to leave the KIDS alone anyhow. (most of them anyhow). If you'd have left Clinton off this list, I probably would have agreed with you. However, the vile hate that Chelsea Clinton suffered at the hands of grown republican men was disgusting. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2018 23:31:43 GMT
One thing I did admire about the media when Obama, Clinton and Bush were presidents--they seemed to leave the KIDS alone anyhow. (most of them anyhow). If you'd have left Clinton off this list, I probably would have agreed with you. However, the vile hate that Chelsea Clinton suffered at the hands of grown republican men was disgusting. I guess I don't remember that part--I don't care for her NOW, but thought she was a cute little kid when she was in the white house. She was about ALL I liked about the Clintons in fact, but she changed all that when she "became an adult." |
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Post by pierkiss on Jun 21, 2018 23:45:44 GMT
One thing I did admire about the media when Obama, Clinton and Bush were presidents--they seemed to leave the KIDS alone anyhow. (most of them anyhow). I don’t see the media reporting about Barron. Which I like, because he’s a minor, and has no say in anything that goes on in that white house or this administration. He’s along for the ride. Trumps other children, on the other hand, are fair game for the media. They are grown adults, all playing a role(s) within this administration. Except Tiffany. You don’t hear anything about Tiffany, as she is playing no role in any of this administration (as far as I know). Trumps grandchildren seem to be left alone too for the most part. Except when Ivanka parades them out in front of world leaders to show off their piano skills. Then they get their pictures plastered on the news. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2018 23:48:34 GMT
One thing I did admire about the media when Obama, Clinton and Bush were presidents--they seemed to leave the KIDS alone anyhow. (most of them anyhow). I don’t see the media reporting about Barron. Which I like, because he’s a minor, and has no say in anything that goes on in that white household or this administration. He’s along for the ride. Trumps other children, on the other hand, are fair game for the media. They are grown adults, all playing a role(s) within this administration. Except Tiffany. You don’t hear anything about Tiffany, as she is playing no role in any of this administration (as far as I know). Trumps grandchildren seem to be left alone too for the most part. Except when Ivanka parades them out in front of world leaders to show off their piano skills. Then they get their pictures plastered on the news. There was some stuff about Baron to begin with, but they have backed off a bit. For that I'm grateful. Poor kid. I feel sorry for him. |
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Post by pierkiss on Jun 21, 2018 23:52:52 GMT
I feel sorry for him too. I would hate to be a kid growing up in a fish bowl. And also to hate to read what the media and world says about your parents every day.
I once heard the Bush girls talk about how either they were told by Chelsea, (or they were telling the Obama girls) something along the lines of, no matter what the world say about the president, remember he’s still just your dad. The same Dad that loves you and wants the best for you. (I know I have horribly butchered that sentiment). I always thought that was so touching.
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Post by tara on Jun 22, 2018 0:12:59 GMT
If you'd have left Clinton off this list, I probably would have agreed with you. However, the vile hate that Chelsea Clinton suffered at the hands of grown republican men was disgusting. I guess I don't remember that part--I don't care for her NOW, but thought she was a cute little kid when she was in the white house. She was about ALL I liked about the Clintons in fact, but she changed all that when she "became an adult." I remember it like it was yesterday. All republicans had to say was how ugly she was. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2018 0:15:41 GMT
I guess I don't remember that part--I don't care for her NOW, but thought she was a cute little kid when she was in the white house. She was about ALL I liked about the Clintons in fact, but she changed all that when she "became an adult." I remember it like it was yesterday. All republicans had to say was how ugly she was. well shame on them then! I never said that, nor would I. |
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Post by Merge on Jun 22, 2018 1:17:52 GMT
False equivalence. Moving adult men to a different city in their own home country, while kids are still at home with Mom, is not remotely the same thing as detaining entire families and separating the adults from the children, and then leaving the kids in this fenced area where adults are not allowed to touch or comfort them. Not the same thing at all. The same damn thing. Yes, Obama DID separate families and leave them in detention while he deported the men in this "horrifically evil" policy. So yeah, the same conditions that Trump is being called evil, cruel and heartless for. So, either they're both evil, cruel and heartless for separating families and housing them in cages, or the labels are wrong. If it applies to one, it applies to the other. If it doesn't apply to one, it doesn't apply to the other. I’m sorry, but I don’t agree at all. I read about the policy you mentioned and it only applied to men traveling solo - the more typical migrant worker scenario. |
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Post by redhead32 on Jun 22, 2018 2:31:54 GMT
No justification...just stating a fact. Until you change human nature you will continue have wars with the more powerful lording it over the weak. The only thing that will change it is to change the human heart. I can guarantee you (general) won't be changing anything through aggressive rhetoric and beating people over the head w/political correctness. That "political correctness" included the Supreme Court forcing schools to allow black students to enroll ... and declaring anti-miscegenation laws unconstitutional ... and throwing out Jim Crow laws and redlining laws. It required more than a change of heart, because we all know that people who support racist institutions will not voluntarily examine their own hearts and consciousness. It takes outside action, social and political and governmental. So I wholeheartedly disagree that it is a "heart issue." That's just another justification for ignoring problems in our society and problems caused by our society and giving white people an easy out because "I'm not racist." |
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Post by dewryce on Jun 22, 2018 2:38:47 GMT
redhead32 I agree with you, and I'd like to add something to your last sentence. It gives people in a position of power and/or the majority an easy out because they're not (insert applicable term here). Racist, Sexist, Homophobic, Xenophobic and tons more. We can't wait for everyone's hearts to be ready and in the right place, action often has to be taken.
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Post by tara on Jun 22, 2018 2:45:01 GMT
False equivalence. Moving adult men to a different city in their own home country, while kids are still at home with Mom, is not remotely the same thing as detaining entire families and separating the adults from the children, and then leaving the kids in this fenced area where adults are not allowed to touch or comfort them. Not the same thing at all. The same damn thing. Yes, Obama DID separate families and leave them in detention while he deported the men in this "horrifically evil" policy. So yeah, the same conditions that Trump is being called evil, cruel and heartless for. So, either they're both evil, cruel and heartless for separating families and housing them in cages, or the labels are wrong. If it applies to one, it applies to the other. If it doesn't apply to one, it doesn't apply to the other. If Obama put children in cages you republicans would have been all over it! Let’s just say he did. You republicans didn’t say crap about it. Why didn’t you try to stop it? What’s good for the goose is good for the gander shouldn’t apply when you’re dealing with children. You can say all the crap you want about Democrats, but right now I’m judging YOU. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2018 2:59:56 GMT
The same damn thing. Yes, Obama DID separate families and leave them in detention while he deported the men in this "horrifically evil" policy. So yeah, the same conditions that Trump is being called evil, cruel and heartless for. So, either they're both evil, cruel and heartless for separating families and housing them in cages, or the labels are wrong. If it applies to one, it applies to the other. If it doesn't apply to one, it doesn't apply to the other. I’m sorry, but I don’t agree at all. I read about the policy you mentioned and it only applied to men traveling solo - the more typical migrant worker scenario. Disagree all you want, it was happening under Obama... From 2014 through 2015, the Kino Border Initiative (KBI) surveyed individuals deported to Nogales, Sonora. Their survey of 358 participants found: Almost 65 percent of migrants who were traveling
with immediate family were separated from those
family members (an increase of almost 10 percent from a survey by the Mexican Government, Las Encuestas sobre Migratión en las Fronteras Norte y Sud de México [EMIF] in 2012). o 13 percent of family separations included
the separation from a child.
o 20 percent of family separations were due
to the detention of another family member
(most likely connected to Operation
Streamline or another border prosecution
program).
o 30 percent of family separations were
attributable to lateral repatriation programs
such as ATEP or MIRP.
In 36 percent of the cases, individuals at the time of the interview were unsure of the location of their
family members.
69 percent of families surveyed reported an increased feeling of insecurity due to family separation during the deportation process. Separated families were also more than twice as likely as other surveyed participants to have experienced abuse in a short time following their removal. 38 percent of family members reported financial difficulties due to the separation.
Additionally, data from KBI’s basic questionnaire for migrants who arrived at their aid center from January to June of 2016 showed that: 36 individuals who were detained while crossing the
border were separated from a parent in the detention
and deportation process.
128 individuals were separated from their spouse. 67 individuals were separated from children.
124 individuals were separated from their siblings. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2018 3:21:50 GMT
The same damn thing. Yes, Obama DID separate families and leave them in detention while he deported the men in this "horrifically evil" policy. So yeah, the same conditions that Trump is being called evil, cruel and heartless for. So, either they're both evil, cruel and heartless for separating families and housing them in cages, or the labels are wrong. If it applies to one, it applies to the other. If it doesn't apply to one, it doesn't apply to the other. You republicans didn’t say crap about it. Why didn’t you try to stop it? What’s good for the goose is good for the gander shouldn’t apply when you’re dealing with children. You can say all the crap you want about Democrats, but right now I’m judging YOU. It's not an "if". He DID put them in the same cages Trump is being called evil for. This all started when some dumbass posted the pictures of kids in cages and calling Trump evil for it. It turns out those pictures were from OBAMA era detentions. |
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used2scrap
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Post by used2scrap on Jun 22, 2018 3:26:47 GMT
If you'd have left Clinton off this list, I probably would have agreed with you. However, the vile hate that Chelsea Clinton suffered at the hands of grown republican men was disgusting. I guess I don't remember that part--I don't care for her NOW, but thought she was a cute little kid when she was in the white house. She was about ALL I liked about the Clintons in fact, but she changed all that when she "became an adult." Rush Limbaugh compared her to a dog, when she was a child. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2018 3:34:39 GMT
I guess I don't remember that part--I don't care for her NOW, but thought she was a cute little kid when she was in the white house. She was about ALL I liked about the Clintons in fact, but she changed all that when she "became an adult." Rush Limbaugh compared her to a dog, when she was a child. I don't listen to him, so guess I didn't hear it. |
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Post by redhead32 on Jun 22, 2018 3:39:16 GMT
Rush Limbaugh compared her to a dog, when she was a child. I don't listen to him, so guess I didn't hear it. This doesn't change the fact that he said it. And that millions DID hear it. I agree that children should be off limits. The president's minor children AND the innocent children that were taken away from their parents. I still cannot wrap my head around how people can defend the separation policy and in the same thread decry a verbal attack on a wealthy white child. Cognitive dissonance, I guess, even on a ReConTarian Sandbox thread. |
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Post by tara on Jun 22, 2018 3:43:35 GMT
If Obama put children in cages you republicans would have been all over it! Let’s just say he did. You republicans didn’t say crap about it. Why didn’t you try to stop it? What’s good for the goose is good for the gander shouldn’t apply when you’re dealing with children. You can say all the crap you want about Democrats, but right now I’m judging YOU. It's not an "if". He DID put them in the same cages Trump is being called evil for. This all started when some dumbass posted the pictures of kids in cages and calling Trump evil for it. It turns out those pictures were from OBAMA era detentions. You didn’t answer my question. If Obama had children in cages why didn’t the republicans stop it? |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2018 3:50:00 GMT
If Obama put children in cages you republicans would have been all over it! Let’s just say he did. You republicans didn’t say crap about it. Why didn’t you try to stop it? What’s good for the goose is good for the gander shouldn’t apply when you’re dealing with children. You can say all the crap you want about Democrats, but right now I’m judging YOU. It's not an "if". He DID put them in the same cages Trump is being called evil for. This all started when some dumbass posted the pictures of kids in cages and calling Trump evil for it. It turns out those pictures were from OBAMA era detentions. This is the problem when you try and do apples to apples comparisons because you never get the rest of the story. The BIG difference between the two comparisons was during Obama’s time, kids were part of the surge of unaccompanied kids that overwhelmed the system. As such kids were put in cages until they could find more suitable facilities to house these kids. trump CHOSE to create this mess by his policy. Obama was REACTING to a situation that was not of his making ie the surge of unaccompanied kids coming to our border looking for asylum. Obama was REACTING to a situation. trump CREATED the situation by his deliberate action. There is a BIG difference. From Jon Favreau who worked in the Obama Administration at the time. “Favreau said in a series of tweets that he made a "mistake" by not checking the date of the photos before sharing them on Twitter. He explained that the photos were taken in 2014, when the Obama administration faced "an influx of unaccompanied minors who showed up at the border, fleeing violence from Central America." He added that the pictures had been taken while the government was trying to "move those children out of those shelters as fast as humanly possible and connect them with their parents, most of whom were already in the United States." |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2018 3:51:31 GMT
I don't listen to him, so guess I didn't hear it. This doesn't change the fact that he said it. And that millions DID hear it. I agree that children should be off limits. The president's minor children AND the innocent children that were taken away from their parents. I still cannot wrap my head around how people can defend the separation policy and in the same thread decry a verbal attack on a wealthy white child. Cognitive dissonance, I guess, even on a ReConTarian Sandbox thread. I have NOT defended the separation policy with either President Obama OR President Trump. The "Verbal attack" was a threat to the boy's life. The fact that he's wealthy has nothing to do with anything. |
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Post by redhead32 on Jun 22, 2018 3:55:53 GMT
This doesn't change the fact that he said it. And that millions DID hear it. I agree that children should be off limits. The president's minor children AND the innocent children that were taken away from their parents. I still cannot wrap my head around how people can defend the separation policy and in the same thread decry a verbal attack on a wealthy white child. Cognitive dissonance, I guess, even on a ReConTarian Sandbox thread. I have NOT defended the separation policy with either President Obama OR President Trump. The "Verbal attack" was a threat to the boy's life. The fact that he's wealthy has nothing to do with anything. Don't forget the white, too. |
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Post by dewryce on Jun 22, 2018 4:22:01 GMT
It's not an "if". He DID put them in the same cages Trump is being called evil for. This all started when some dumbass posted the pictures of kids in cages and calling Trump evil for it. It turns out those pictures were from OBAMA era detentions. This is the problem when you try and do apples to apples comparisons because you never get the rest of the story. The BIG difference between the two comparisons was during Obama’s time, kids were part of the surge of unaccompanied kids that overwhelmed the system. As such kids were put in cages until they could find more suitable facilities to house these kids. trump CHOSE to create this mess by his policy. Obama was REACTING to a situation that was not of his making ie the surge of unaccompanied kids coming to our border looking for asylum. Obama was REACTING to a situation. trump CREATED the situation by his deliberate action. There is a BIG difference. From Jon Favreau who worked in the Obama Administration at the time. “Favreau said in a series of tweets that he made a "mistake" by not checking the date of the photos before sharing them on Twitter. He explained that the photos were taken in 2014, when the Obama administration faced "an influx of unaccompanied minors who showed up at the border, fleeing violence from Central America." He added that the pictures had been taken while the government was trying to "move those children out of those shelters as fast as humanly possible and connect them with their parents, most of whom were already in the United States." Yes, this was supposed to be a temporary solution that they were forced to come up with on-the-fly in 2014. No one is happy with it and we all wish it had been better. It has been FOUR YEARS and it looks like the immediate detention shelters still have the same set up. 2 years for each administration to make changes, as I'm assuming the Obama administration did not make improvements and then the Trump administration went back to the original on-the-fly plans. The Trump administration, knowing full well the terrible set up of the intake centers made a policy change of zero tolerance and to separate families, causing an influx of people in the centers that were already almost to capacity. |
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Post by gale w on Jun 22, 2018 4:32:45 GMT
This thread isn't enjoyable at all like I was hoping.  I'll have to remember to just stay out. |
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Post by redhead32 on Jun 22, 2018 4:36:49 GMT
This thread isn't enjoyable at all like I was hoping. I'll have to remember to just stay out. So sorry that the discussion about caging children isn’t enjoyable. Perhaps we should discuss Instant Pot recipes or fashion trends instead. |
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Post by gale w on Jun 22, 2018 4:40:01 GMT
I was hoping to learn more about politics. Instead I see name calling and mudslinging. But you go ahead and judge me.  |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2018 4:44:39 GMT
It's not an "if". He DID put them in the same cages Trump is being called evil for. This all started when some dumbass posted the pictures of kids in cages and calling Trump evil for it. It turns out those pictures were from OBAMA era detentions. You didn’t answer my question. If Obama had children in cages why didn’t the republicans stop it? As I said... Obama DID separate families and leave them in detention while he deported the men in this "horrifically evil" policy. So yeah, the same conditions that Trump is being called evil, cruel and heartless for. So, either they're both evil, cruel and heartless for separating families and housing them in cages, or the labels are wrong. If it applies to one, it applies to the other. If it doesn't apply to one, it doesn't apply to the other. THAT was the topic, you don't get to then move the goalposts and start in on "whataboutism". Or is this where I follow the Left's playbook and accuse you of derailing the thread, being a troll, saying something racist (you didn't, but of course we all KNOW your hidden meaning), call you crazy and have 85 of my buddies pile on in agreement with me? |
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Post by dewryce on Jun 22, 2018 4:52:41 GMT
I was hoping to learn more about politics. Instead I see name calling and mudslinging. But you go ahead and judge me. There is some political discussion mixed in, it just takes a few minutes to dig through and find it  |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2018 4:55:59 GMT
It's not an "if". He DID put them in the same cages Trump is being called evil for. This all started when some dumbass posted the pictures of kids in cages and calling Trump evil for it. It turns out those pictures were from OBAMA era detentions. This is the problem when you try and do apples to apples comparisons because you never get the rest of the story. The BIG difference between the two comparisons was during Obama’s time, kids were part of the surge of unaccompanied kids that overwhelmed the system. As such kids were put in cages until they could find more suitable facilities to house these kids. trump CHOSE to create this mess by his policy. Obama was REACTING to a situation that was not of his making ie the surge of unaccompanied kids coming to our border looking for asylum. This is the problem when you try and do apples to apples comparisons because you never get the rest of the story. From Jon Favreau who worked in the Obama Administration at the time. “Favreau said in a series of tweets that he made a "mistake" by not checking the date of the photos before sharing them on Twitter. He explained that the photos were taken in 2014, when the Obama administration faced "an influx of unaccompanied minors who showed up at the border, fleeing violence from Central America." He added that the pictures had been taken while the government was trying to "move those children out of those shelters as fast as humanly possible and connect them with their parents, most of whom were already in the United States." No, the problem is, you repeatedly trump up excuses and justifications to PRETEND it's always different or dismiss "it" in some way. It never fails, I can always count on you to do so.  Okay, let's get the rest of the story that YOU left out... So yes, Obama did his part in creating that crisis just as Trump did in his, so your claim that it was "not of his making" is patently false. Apples to apples.  |
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Don't forget the white, too.
I'll have to remember to just stay out. 
