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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Sept 28, 2018 18:03:34 GMT
Flake says no committee vote and hold floor vote for one week for FBI investigation.
Grassley saying he cannot speak for Schumer and McConnell. They're still trying to decide what to do. But the committee has already voted to send it to the floor. And Grassley and Graham will scream “no backsies”. 🙄
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Post by mrssmith on Sept 28, 2018 18:03:54 GMT
What's this "two hour rule"? What just happened? What "gentlemen's and ladies' agreement" is Grassley talking about?!?!
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Post by crimsoncat05 on Sept 28, 2018 18:04:08 GMT
they voted 11-10 to move it to the full senate, but Flake is endorsing the idea of asking for a 1-week FBI investigation into the allegations against Kavanaugh, along with other Republicans and some Dems, asking for this investigation. (gentlemen's agreemnt' between Flake and the Dems; he voted Yes, but appeased the Dems by saying he wanted the additional invesitgation.
But they STILL have to get Trump to approve that investigation taking place, right?? so it means there still doesn't HAVE to be a further investigaton?
McConnell STILL has to agree to delay the vote, and Trump has to agree to the additional investigation.
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Post by mom on Sept 28, 2018 18:05:10 GMT
they voted 11-10 to move it to the full senate, but Flake is endorsing the idea of asking for a 1-week FBI investigation into the allegations against Kavanaugh, along with other Republicans and some Dems, asking for this investigation. But they STILL have to get Trump to approve that investigation taking place, right?? so it means there still doesn't HAVE to be a further investigaton?Yes. Nothing matters (meaning, no-one can make the FBI investigate) unless Trump instructs the FBI investigation.
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lizacreates
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,856
Aug 29, 2015 2:39:19 GMT
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Post by lizacreates on Sept 28, 2018 18:05:17 GMT
Kavanaugh voted out of committee 11-10.
Gentlemen's and Ladies' Agreement to have one-week FBI investigation BEFORE full senate floor vote.
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flute4peace
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,757
Jul 3, 2014 14:38:35 GMT
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Post by flute4peace on Sept 28, 2018 18:05:40 GMT
I know right! I think Grassley just screwed them all. I don’t think they voted on what Flake motioned & when questioned on that Grassley abruptly recessed the session.
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Post by mom on Sept 28, 2018 18:06:36 GMT
What's this "two hour rule"? What just happened? What "gentlemen's and ladies' agreement" is Grassley talking about?!?! There is a standing 2 hour rule that says committees cannot meet longer than 2 hours when the full Senate is in session. Edited to add: they also cannot meet past 2:00.
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Sept 28, 2018 18:07:08 GMT
I think we got Snookered!
ETA: Ahhhh, maybe not..........
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Post by crimsoncat05 on Sept 28, 2018 18:07:38 GMT
ahhh... Flake (apparently) said that he won't vote Yes on the floor if they don't do the additional investigation. If a couple other Republicans join him in that, they won't have the votes to confirm.
He agreed to move it to the floor, but said he will NOT vote for him on the floor unless they do the additional investigation.
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flute4peace
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,757
Jul 3, 2014 14:38:35 GMT
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Post by flute4peace on Sept 28, 2018 18:07:46 GMT
they voted 11-10 to move it to the full senate, but Flake is endorsing the idea of asking for a 1-week FBI investigation into the allegations against Kavanaugh, along with other Republicans and some Dems, asking for this investigation. (gentlemen's agreemnt' between Flake and the Dems; he voted Yes, but appeased the Dems by saying he wanted the additional invesitgation. But they STILL have to get Trump to approve that investigation taking place, right?? so it means there still doesn't HAVE to be a further investigaton? McConnell STILL has to agree to delay the vote, and Trump has to agree to the additional investigation. So basically Flake’s holdout meant absolutely nothing. I bet the Senate votes tomorrow.
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imsirius
Prolific Pea
Call it as I see it.
Posts: 7,661
Location: Floating in the black veil.
Jul 12, 2014 19:59:28 GMT
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Post by imsirius on Sept 28, 2018 18:07:55 GMT
Did Flake actually do THE RIGHT THING. 😮😮😮😮😮
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Sept 28, 2018 18:08:36 GMT
Interesting assessment—
Why GOP senators dropped sex crimes prosecutor Rachel Mitchell like a hot potato
Christine Blasey Ford questioned about her fear of flying Editor's Note:Page Pate, a CNN legal analyst, is a criminal defense and constitutional lawyer based in Atlanta. He is an adjunct professor of law at the University of Georgia, a founding member of the Georgia Innocence Project, a former board member of the Federal Defender Program in Atlanta and the former chairman of the criminal law section of the Atlanta Bar Association. Follow him on Twitter @pagepate. The opinions expressed in this commentary are his. Read more opinion articles at CNN. (CNN) — Christine Blasey Ford's performance before the Senate Judiciary Committee on Thursday was nothing short of extraordinary. The entire country was watching as she testified about her sexual assault allegation against Kavanaugh. The balance of power in the United States Supreme Court may be in play. And millions of sex-crime victims -- men and women -- were hoping she could give them a voice.
Page Pate Page Pate
That's an incredible amount of pressure to put on a person who has no known experience testifying, who is telling her most painful memories, and who is subjecting herself to public disbelief and ridicule. She did not seek out the spotlight like Kavanaugh did, she does not have the experience, training or personality for anything remotely like this.
But somehow, to the surprise and chagrin of Judge Brett Kavanaugh's supporters, she nailed it.
Blasey Ford was up front about what she remembered and candid about what she did not. She was not defensive when pressed by Rachel Mitchell (the sex crimes prosecutor brought in to question Blasey Ford because the male Republican senators were afraid to do it themselves). She was credible and did the best she could to tell the truth as she remembers it.
Related Article: What changed after Blasey Ford, Kavanaugh hearing? I have defended many people accused of serious sex crimes in my private practice. In my career, I have cross-examined dozens of women who had made allegations against my clients similar to what Blasey Ford said happened to her. While it is certainly possible she does not remember every detail accurately, she is not lying.
In stark contrast, Judge Kavanaugh was raw and angry when he testified. Perhaps that's not surprising given what he is being accused of, what his family has gone through during this process, and what Republican politicians and supporters may have told him about what his demeanor should be.
But angry doesn't always mean credible. In fact, it's usually a very bad sign when a witness gets angry, especially when the witness starts fighting with the lawyer (or in his case, the senator) questioning him.
Related Article: When men cry in public While I don't agree his anger was helpful, I don't think Judge Kavanaugh was trying to lie to the committee. To lie, a person has to intend to mislead. He has to know the truth and intentionally disregard it. I don't think that happened here.
I think Judge Kavanaugh actually believes this didn't happen. But I believe it's entirely possible that a teenage Kavanaugh was just too drunk to recall what happened over 30 years ago. And, if this happened the way Blasey Ford described it, it's probably not the only time something like this occurred in his life.
The reality is that this process -- this hearing -- was never about finding the truth. The format of the hearing was not designed for that. There was no objective, professional investigation of the allegations beforehand to document witnesses' testimony and other potential evidence. The GOP senators brought in a seasoned prosecutor to question Blasey Ford about her allegations, but only gave her five-minute slots in which to ask detailed, critical questions of the witness.
That's not Ms. Mitchell's fault. Several people have criticized Ms. Mitchell's questioning of Blasey Ford. That criticism is misplaced. If Republican senators were expecting her to grill Blasey Ford and try to poke holes in her story, then they don't know anything about career sex crime prosecutors.
Related Article: Kavanaugh case opens old wounds for many survivors If they wanted a lawyer to rake Blasey Ford over the coals and try to suggest she wasn't telling the truth, they should have hired someone like me -- a criminal defense lawyer. The worst person to hire for that job is a dedicated sex crimes prosecutor.
In my experience, once a prosecutor like Ms. Mitchell believes a victim is credible, the truth-finding process is over for them. They become the victim's advocate.
That's what happened today. Ms. Mitchell asked the questions she was supposed to ask. She tried to show inconsistencies in Blasey Ford's statements. She tried to show political motivations and improper influence.
But at some point, Ms. Mitchell decided she believed Blasey Ford. I think that happened when she called her a "victim" of sexual assault trauma. At that point, I don't think she was going to do anything to hurt Blasey Ford. Perhaps that's why the Republican senators decided to drop her like a hot potato when it came time to really confront Judge Kavanaugh about these allegations.
I don't think Blasey Ford is lying, and I don't think Judge Kavanaugh is lying. I think there is a real doubt about what happened at that house 36 years ago. That doubt would prevent Judge Kavanaugh from being convicted of a crime based on these allegations. But the same doubt may be enough to keep Judge Kavanaugh off the Supreme Court.
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flute4peace
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,757
Jul 3, 2014 14:38:35 GMT
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Post by flute4peace on Sept 28, 2018 18:08:57 GMT
ahhh... Flake (apparently) said that he won't vote Yes on the floor if they don't do the additional investigation. If a couple other Republicans join him in that, they won't have the votes to confirm. He agreed to move it to the floor, but said he will NOT vote for him on the floor unless they do the additional investigation. Ooooh now that does make sense, thank you.
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Post by crimsoncat05 on Sept 28, 2018 18:09:20 GMT
ahhh... Flake (apparently) said that he won't vote Yes on the floor if they don't do the additional investigation. If a couple other Republicans join him in that, they won't have the votes to confirm. He agreed to move it to the floor, but said he will NOT vote for him on the floor unless they do the additional investigation. ^^^ this is how I understand what Senator Clobachar (sp?) explained.
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lizacreates
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,856
Aug 29, 2015 2:39:19 GMT
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Post by lizacreates on Sept 28, 2018 18:10:43 GMT
they voted 11-10 to move it to the full senate, but Flake is endorsing the idea of asking for a 1-week FBI investigation into the allegations against Kavanaugh, along with other Republicans and some Dems, asking for this investigation. But they STILL have to get Trump to approve that investigation taking place, right?? so it means there still doesn't HAVE to be a further investigaton?Yes. Nothing matters (meaning, no-one can make the FBI investigate) unless Trump instructs the FBI investigation. Trump has no choice. McConnell will not bring this to the floor until he knows he’s got the votes. Flake is already withholding until FBI investigation is done. Collins and Murkowski have not declared. McConnell cannot afford to lose more than one vote or Kavanaugh is kaput.
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imsirius
Prolific Pea
Call it as I see it.
Posts: 7,661
Location: Floating in the black veil.
Jul 12, 2014 19:59:28 GMT
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Post by imsirius on Sept 28, 2018 18:12:25 GMT
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Post by crimsoncat05 on Sept 28, 2018 18:12:33 GMT
I just looooove how Lindsay Graham KNOWS already what the results of the FBI investigation will be... 'we won't find out anything in a week that we already know now...' He must have ESP.
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Rhondito
Pearl Clutcher
MississipPea
Posts: 4,798
Jun 25, 2014 19:33:19 GMT
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Post by Rhondito on Sept 28, 2018 18:13:05 GMT
ahhh... Flake (apparently) said that he won't vote Yes on the floor if they don't do the additional investigation. If a couple other Republicans join him in that, they won't have the votes to confirm. He agreed to move it to the floor, but said he will NOT vote for him on the floor unless they do the additional investigation. This is how I understand it as well. I think it is a very fair compromise.
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lizacreates
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,856
Aug 29, 2015 2:39:19 GMT
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Post by lizacreates on Sept 28, 2018 18:13:20 GMT
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flute4peace
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,757
Jul 3, 2014 14:38:35 GMT
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Post by flute4peace on Sept 28, 2018 18:13:44 GMT
Yes. Nothing matters (meaning, no-one can make the FBI investigate) unless Trump instructs the FBI investigation. Trump has no choice. McConnell will not bring this to the floor until he knows he’s got the votes. Flake is already withholding until FBI investigation is done. Collins and Murkowski have not declared. McConnell cannot afford to lose more than one vote or Kavanaugh is kaput. It will be interesting to see how Trump reacts.
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lizacreates
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,856
Aug 29, 2015 2:39:19 GMT
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Post by lizacreates on Sept 28, 2018 18:15:03 GMT
Whew! I need another beer!
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flute4peace
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,757
Jul 3, 2014 14:38:35 GMT
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Post by flute4peace on Sept 28, 2018 18:16:12 GMT
Whew! I need another beer! I don’t drink so please have one for me too!
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imsirius
Prolific Pea
Call it as I see it.
Posts: 7,661
Location: Floating in the black veil.
Jul 12, 2014 19:59:28 GMT
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Post by imsirius on Sept 28, 2018 18:16:14 GMT
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Post by crimsoncat05 on Sept 28, 2018 18:17:04 GMT
Trump: Kavanaugh's testimony was 'powerful, incredible, something we've never seen before in this country'
Yeah, but not in a GOOD way...
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imsirius
Prolific Pea
Call it as I see it.
Posts: 7,661
Location: Floating in the black veil.
Jul 12, 2014 19:59:28 GMT
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Post by imsirius on Sept 28, 2018 18:19:22 GMT
Again..anyone surprised?
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flute4peace
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,757
Jul 3, 2014 14:38:35 GMT
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Post by flute4peace on Sept 28, 2018 18:20:55 GMT
Trump just spoke briefly. Don’t think he understands what just happened.
Said Dr. Ford was “A fine woman, a very fine woman”. Also said Kavanaugh testimony was “unlike anything I’ve ever seen before. It was incredible”.
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flute4peace
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,757
Jul 3, 2014 14:38:35 GMT
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Post by flute4peace on Sept 28, 2018 18:22:02 GMT
I encourage everyone to watch this video. It’s very powerful.
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lizacreates
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,856
Aug 29, 2015 2:39:19 GMT
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Post by lizacreates on Sept 28, 2018 18:22:38 GMT
All this proves just how powerfully compelling Christine Ford's testimony was. I would bet that no one had ever anticipated what happened just now.
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imsirius
Prolific Pea
Call it as I see it.
Posts: 7,661
Location: Floating in the black veil.
Jul 12, 2014 19:59:28 GMT
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Post by imsirius on Sept 28, 2018 18:26:32 GMT
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amom23
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,409
Jun 27, 2014 12:39:18 GMT
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Post by amom23 on Sept 28, 2018 18:26:41 GMT
Flake says no committee vote and hold floor vote for one week for FBI investigation.
Grassley saying he cannot speak for Schumer and McConnell. They're still trying to decide what to do. But the committee has already voted to send it to the floor. Flake said he wouldn’t vote “yes” until an FBI investigation was completed so basically putting a stop to a floor vote. The R’s need everyone in their party to vote yes.
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