flute4peace
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,757
Jul 3, 2014 14:38:35 GMT
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Post by flute4peace on Sept 28, 2018 18:29:39 GMT
All this proves just how powerfully compelling Christine Ford's testimony was. I would bet that no one had ever anticipated what happened just now. I appreciate your saying this. For someone with very little political experience/knowledge, it seems like it should have been common sense to me. Your comments always help put things in perspective for me. So.....McConnel is in charge of the vote, right? So if he wants to they can go ahead & vote tomorrow. If they do vote & it’s a no, then it’s over, right?
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Post by dewryce on Sept 28, 2018 18:31:17 GMT
All this proves just how powerfully compelling Christine Ford's testimony was. I would bet that no one had ever anticipated what happened just now. I appreciate your saying this. For someone with very little political experience/knowledge, it seems like it should have been common sense to me. Your comments always help put things in perspective for me. So.....McConnel is in charge of the vote, right? So if he wants to they can go ahead & vote tomorrow. If they do vote & it’s a no, then it’s over, right? I believe so, but he won't put it on the floor if he isn't sure he has the votes.
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flute4peace
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,757
Jul 3, 2014 14:38:35 GMT
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Post by flute4peace on Sept 28, 2018 18:32:38 GMT
Does anyone think Kavanaugh will withdraw?
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imsirius
Prolific Pea
Call it as I see it.
Posts: 7,661
Location: Floating in the black veil.
Jul 12, 2014 19:59:28 GMT
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Post by imsirius on Sept 28, 2018 18:33:17 GMT
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Rhondito
Pearl Clutcher
MississipPea
Posts: 4,798
Jun 25, 2014 19:33:19 GMT
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Post by Rhondito on Sept 28, 2018 18:35:32 GMT
Does anyone think Kavanaugh will withdraw? No
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Post by crimsoncat05 on Sept 28, 2018 18:37:11 GMT
Does anyone think Kavanaugh will withdraw? ...right off the bat my answer is 'hell, no!' he's been groomed for this for years, and he DOES feel it's his 'right' to get that seat. BUT- who knows what he might be thinking if his behavior IS and HAS BEEN as bad as I think... would he really want all that to be dragged out into the open and ruin whatever little reputation he has left?? Not sure.
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janeliz
Drama Llama
I'm the Wiz and nobody beats me.
Posts: 5,641
Jun 26, 2014 14:35:07 GMT
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Post by janeliz on Sept 28, 2018 18:40:42 GMT
Does anyone think Kavanaugh will withdraw? That’s a tough one. My impression of him is that he sees the seat as some sort of birthright. He already has a lifetime appointment to a high court, though. Why risk any further scrutiny into such serious charges?
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lizacreates
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,856
Aug 29, 2015 2:39:19 GMT
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Post by lizacreates on Sept 28, 2018 18:44:31 GMT
All this proves just how powerfully compelling Christine Ford's testimony was. I would bet that no one had ever anticipated what happened just now. I appreciate your saying this. For someone with very little political experience/knowledge, it seems like it should have been common sense to me. Your comments always help put things in perspective for me. So.....McConnel is in charge of the vote, right? So if he wants to they can go ahead & vote tomorrow. If they do vote & it’s a no, then it’s over, right? Thank you and I appreciate your having created this thread for all of us. McConnell will not bring this to the floor simply because he does not have the votes. GOP majority is 51-49. Flake withheld his vote until the one-week FBI investigation is finished. Collins and Murkowski have not declared their votes. McConnell can afford to lose only ONE vote, which will cause a tie (50-50) that can be broken by Pence. If he loses any combination of two amongst Flake, Collins or Murkowski, Kavanaugh toast. The one thing to remember about McConnell is, like Pelosi, he doesn't call a floor vote until he's assured he'll win.
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moodyblue
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,255
Location: Western Illinois
Site Supporter
Jun 26, 2014 21:07:23 GMT
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Post by moodyblue on Sept 28, 2018 18:46:40 GMT
Just saw a news flash that Murkowski is also calling for a one week delay. Has anyone else seen anything?
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Post by femalebusiness on Sept 28, 2018 18:46:45 GMT
Does anyone think Kavanaugh will withdraw? Not in a million years.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 7, 2024 7:21:42 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2018 18:49:08 GMT
He should be an actor! I saw him interviewed about a year ago on PBS and he seemed so grounded and normal! I bought into it! He says 1 thing and seems so compassionate and then votes along with the party. It's SO frustrating! I hope he changes his mind and votes his conscience--he's got nothing to lose! Yes he does he will lose future income. He didn't appear to be the type of person to be bought, IMO. Now that he's putting this part of his life behind him, he has hundreds of avenues to make $$ from. That would be pretty pitiful if these politicians all depend on securing their future incomes by not being honest with themselves. I'm probably VERY naive, but I believe that if he stands up for what he believes in right now, he'll be admired by so many more people and avenues to make a decent income will present themselves.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 7, 2024 7:21:42 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2018 18:50:06 GMT
Fighting for your life and reputation creates a vastly different disposition than simply doing your job does. To predict that his behavior during a normal everyday occurrence will be the same as his behavior and reaction during a catastrophic life event is ludicrous. oh, like when Hillary Clinton's reputation and freedom were on the line during 11 hours of hostile questioning and she didn't cry or yell? No. Nothing like that. Two totally different things.
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Post by dewryce on Sept 28, 2018 18:50:31 GMT
I really, really hope there is an FBI Investigation. It is warranted and the right thing to do. As it has been such a long time, it'll be hard to make a case and I think the chance that there is irrefutable evidence against him, or in favor of her, is unlikely. But that doesn't mean it shouldn't be done. We have to use every tool we can to obtain as much information as we can before any decisions are made.
My question, I've been reading but can't find a straight answer. What exactly will the FBI be looking at? Just Ford's allegation? There will be no physical evidence. And without it I really don't see it changing anyone's minds. Will they speak to expert witnesses, or have Ford/Kavanaugh do so and include that in their findings? Will they speak with his other accusers? Will they look at things like his drinking, his behavior towards girls, his yearbook? Because if they do, its possible that some statements Kavanaugh made yesterday could be shown to be misleading at best, and possibly untruthful. Like the legal drinking age, how much and how often he drank, how he treated girls at the time, and whether that horrible crap in his yearbook meant what he said it did. In other words, it could help determine how truthful he was being while sworn in during the hearing. If he wasn't completely forthright and truthful about those things, why should his testimony about the assault be believed?
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Post by mrssmith on Sept 28, 2018 18:54:53 GMT
What's this "two hour rule"? What just happened? What "gentlemen's and ladies' agreement" is Grassley talking about?!?! There is a standing 2 hour rule that says committees cannot meet longer than 2 hours when the full Senate is in session. Edited to add: they also cannot meet past 2:00. Thanks. I did not know that. It seemed like a very abrupt ending.
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Post by mustlovecats on Sept 28, 2018 18:58:03 GMT
Does anyone think Kavanaugh will withdraw? No Nope
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imsirius
Prolific Pea
Call it as I see it.
Posts: 7,661
Location: Floating in the black veil.
Jul 12, 2014 19:59:28 GMT
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Post by imsirius on Sept 28, 2018 19:02:43 GMT
I saw this on fb and it was posted by a professor from Stanford I believe....maybe the senate should show this to the gop.
Guys ask why women are so pissed off. Even guys with wives and daughters. Jackson Katz, a prominent social researcher, illustrates why. He's done it with hundreds of audiences:
"I draw a line down the middle of a chalkboard, sketching a male symbol on one side and a female symbol on the other. Then I ask just the men: What steps do you guys take, on a daily basis, to prevent yourselves from being sexually assaulted? At first there is a kind of awkward silence as the men try to figure out if they've been asked a trick question. The silence gives way to a smattering of nervous laughter. Occasionally, a young a guy will raise his hand and say, 'I stay out of prison.' This is typically followed by another moment of laughter, before someone finally raises his hand and soberly states, 'Nothing. I don't think about it.' Then I ask the women the same question. What steps do you take on a daily basis to prevent yourselves from being sexually assaulted? Women throughout the audience immediately start raising their hands. As the men sit in stunned silence, the women recount safety precautions they take as part of their daily routine. Hold my keys as a potential weapon. Look in the back seat of the car before getting in. Carry a cell phone. Don't go jogging at night. Lock all the windows when I sleep, even on hot summer nights. Be careful not to drink too much. Don't put my drink down and come back to it; make sure I see it being poured. Own a big dog. Carry Mace or pepper spray. Have an unlisted phone number. Have a man's voice on my answering machine. Park in well-lit areas. Don't use parking garages. Don't get on elevators with only one man, or with a group of men. Vary my route home from work. Watch what I wear. Don't use highway rest areas. Use a home alarm system. Don't wear headphones when jogging. Avoid forests or wooded areas, even in the daytime. Don't take a first-floor apartment. Go out in groups. Own a firearm. Meet men on first dates in public places. Make sure to have a car or cab fare. Don't make eye contact with men on the street. Make assertive eye contact with men on the street.” "Don't dress too sexy" "Don't smile at strangers"
― Jackson Katz, The Macho Paradox: Why Some Men Hurt Women and How All Men Can Help
(The first man to minor in women's studies at the University of Massachusetts-Amherst, holds a master's degree from the Harvard Graduate School of Education, and a Ph.D. in cultural studies and education from UCLA.)
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Post by crimsoncat05 on Sept 28, 2018 19:05:21 GMT
My question, I've been reading but can't find a straight answer. What exactly will the FBI be looking at? Just Ford's allegation? T from what I understood of Jeff Flake's (mumbled) answer during the committee vote, I think he said it should encompass all of the new allegations.
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scrappinmama
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,021
Jun 26, 2014 12:54:09 GMT
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Post by scrappinmama on Sept 28, 2018 19:07:39 GMT
Does anyone think Kavanaugh will withdraw? No way in hell. He doesn't think he did anything wrong. He was probably so drunk that he doesn't even remember, but in his mind he didn't do anything.
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Sept 28, 2018 19:08:33 GMT
ahhh... Flake (apparently) said that he won't vote Yes on the floor if they don't do the additional investigation. If a couple other Republicans join him in that, they won't have the votes to confirm. He agreed to move it to the floor, but said he will NOT vote for him on the floor unless they do the additional investigation. Thanks for clearing my head! Trump has no choice. McConnell will not bring this to the floor until he knows he’s got the votes. Flake is already withholding until FBI investigation is done. Collins and Murkowski have not declared. McConnell cannot afford to lose more than one vote or Kavanaugh is kaput. YES!
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lizacreates
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,856
Aug 29, 2015 2:39:19 GMT
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Post by lizacreates on Sept 28, 2018 19:14:46 GMT
Just saw a news flash that Murkowski is also calling for a one week delay. Has anyone else seen anything? Yes, I just saw it. Alaska's Murkowski is under a lot of pressure when it comes to violence against women. Justin Schneider in Alaska strangled a woman unconscious then masturbated on her. Just a week ago, it was reported he won't even get jail time. So, understandably, Alaskan women are up in arms.
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Post by gar on Sept 28, 2018 19:18:05 GMT
I saw this on fb and it was posted by a professor from Stanford I believe....maybe the senate should show this to the gop. Guys ask why women are so pissed off. Even guys with wives and daughters. Jackson Katz, a prominent social researcher, illustrates why. He's done it with hundreds of audiences: "I draw a line down the middle of a chalkboard, sketching a male symbol on one side and a female symbol on the other. Then I ask just the men: What steps do you guys take, on a daily basis, to prevent yourselves from being sexually assaulted? At first there is a kind of awkward silence as the men try to figure out if they've been asked a trick question. The silence gives way to a smattering of nervous laughter. Occasionally, a young a guy will raise his hand and say, 'I stay out of prison.' This is typically followed by another moment of laughter, before someone finally raises his hand and soberly states, 'Nothing. I don't think about it.' Then I ask the women the same question. What steps do you take on a daily basis to prevent yourselves from being sexually assaulted? Women throughout the audience immediately start raising their hands. As the men sit in stunned silence, the women recount safety precautions they take as part of their daily routine. Hold my keys as a potential weapon. Look in the back seat of the car before getting in. Carry a cell phone. Don't go jogging at night. Lock all the windows when I sleep, even on hot summer nights. Be careful not to drink too much. Don't put my drink down and come back to it; make sure I see it being poured. Own a big dog. Carry Mace or pepper spray. Have an unlisted phone number. Have a man's voice on my answering machine. Park in well-lit areas. Don't use parking garages. Don't get on elevators with only one man, or with a group of men. Vary my route home from work. Watch what I wear. Don't use highway rest areas. Use a home alarm system. Don't wear headphones when jogging. Avoid forests or wooded areas, even in the daytime. Don't take a first-floor apartment. Go out in groups. Own a firearm. Meet men on first dates in public places. Make sure to have a car or cab fare. Don't make eye contact with men on the street. Make assertive eye contact with men on the street.” "Don't dress too sexy" "Don't smile at strangers" ― Jackson Katz, The Macho Paradox: Why Some Men Hurt Women and How All Men Can Help (The first man to minor in women's studies at the University of Massachusetts-Amherst, holds a master's degree from the Harvard Graduate School of Education, and a Ph.D. in cultural studies and education from UCLA.)
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flute4peace
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,757
Jul 3, 2014 14:38:35 GMT
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Post by flute4peace on Sept 28, 2018 19:20:47 GMT
Just saw a news flash that Murkowski is also calling for a one week delay. Has anyone else seen anything? Yes, I just saw it. Alaska's Murkowski is under a lot of pressure when it comes to violence against women. Justin Schneider in Alaska strangled a woman unconscious then masturbated on her. Just a week ago, it was reported he won't even get jail time. So, understandably, Alaskan women are up in arms. How awful!!!
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 7, 2024 7:21:42 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2018 19:23:55 GMT
I did. Her behavior was completely in accordance with someone who was making a scary public accusation about an extremely personal and traumatic experience. Likewise, Kavanaugh behaved in accordance with someone who was defending himself against a scary public accusation. IF he is actually innocent, the righteous indignation he displayed is exactly what I would expect to see.
I agree with this. I would have been more surprised if he didn't react this way. How would you have felt about Dr. Ford if she were angry and belligerent to Ms. Mitchell and the Senators?
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Post by femalebusiness on Sept 28, 2018 19:29:58 GMT
Yes he does he will lose future income. He didn't appear to be the type of person to be bought, IMO. Now that he's putting this part of his life behind him, he has hundreds of avenues to make $$ from. That would be pretty pitiful if these politicians all depend on securing their future incomes by not being honest with themselves. I'm probably VERY naive, but I believe that if he stands up for what he believes in right now, he'll be admired by so many more people and avenues to make a decent income will present themselves. I think Flake may be a descent guy who tries to do the right thing. Our representatives run the gamut from pure evil to those who really try to do good. There is a “revolving door” phenomenon where the representatives switch between private and public jobs and it all involves money. The nicest representative in the world is very aware of this dynamic and you can bet your bottom dollar that future employment is a factor in how any one of them (dem/repub) votes on any issue.
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Post by dewryce on Sept 28, 2018 19:30:10 GMT
I agree with this. I would have been more surprised if he didn't react this way. How would you have felt about Dr. Ford if she were angry and belligerent to Ms. Mitchell and the Senators? She would have been seen as unhinged and aggressive. But not because she was telling the truth, because she hates Republicans and wants to stick it to them. Even if she never mentioned them. Her tears would have been assumed to be staged dramatics. The double standards in how women and men's actions, reactions and emotions are perceived infuriates me.
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lindas
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,277
Jun 26, 2014 5:46:37 GMT
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Post by lindas on Sept 28, 2018 19:47:44 GMT
I agree with this. I would have been more surprised if he didn't react this way. How would you have felt about Dr. Ford if she were angry and belligerent to Ms. Mitchell and the Senators? Would depend on how the questions were being asked. If the line of questioning was accusing her of lying or having an agenda then I would expect her to react in an angry and forceful way.
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Sept 28, 2018 19:52:05 GMT
I forget who posted The New Yorker link... Mia Farrow sure did raise a smart kid!! I am just posting a few paragraphs.. E-mails Show That Republican Senate Staff Stymied a Kavanaugh Accuser’s Effort to Give Testimony(Deborah Ramirez) By Ronan Farrow and Jane Mayer 9:05 A.M. Sept 28, 2018 ** From the start, Ramirez’s legal team had called for the F.B.I. to conduct an investigation. Her attorney John Clune told Davis that Ramirez was seeking an F.B.I. investigation and said that, “on appropriate terms, she would also agree to be interviewed in person.” But when Clune proposed a phone call several times, Davis repeatedly insisted that Clune answer two questions: Did Ramirez possess evidence in addition to what was in the New Yorker article? And was she willing to provide testimony to the committee’s investigators?** ...........Clune continued to try to schedule a call with a Democratic staffer on the e-mail thread, but Davis wrote back to him, saying that, “before we discuss a phone call or any other next steps, again, we need to have the following information,” and reiterated the two questions. At that point, Heather Sawyer, the Democratic staffer who was copied on the e-mails in accordance with committee policy, wrote to Davis, “As you’re aware, Ms. Ramirez’s counsel have repeatedly requested to speak with the Committee, on a bipartisan basis, to determine how to proceed. You refused. I’ve never encountered an instance where the Committee has refused even to speak with an individual or counsel. I am perplexed as to why this is happening here, except that it seems designed to ensure that the Majority can falsely claim that Ms. Ramirez and her lawyers refused to cooperate. That simply is not true.”...............Davis responded, “I have not refused to speak with anyone. I am simply requesting – for the 7th time now over the last 48 hours – that Ms. Ramirez’s attorneys provide the Senate Judiciary Committee with any evidence that they have before we move to the next steps.” ( ** Sawyer did not respond to a request for comment. A Democratic staffer responding on her behalf confirmed that the e-mails were accurate. ** ...............Our staff asked on seven separate occasions over the course of 48 hours for any evidence or statement Ms. Ramirez would be willing to provide. Unfortunately, her counsels have not provided the committee with any such material to review.” The aide noted that the committee asked Kavanaugh about the allegation during an interview this week................ “Almost immediately in our correspondence, they became less interested in hearing from her and more interested in discovering what witnesses we could bring forward. Since it was only the majority staff that made these demands, as the minority staff questioned those demands as unprecedented, we became suspicious that any disclosures we might file would be shared inappropriately with Judge Kavanaugh or others to prepare and attack Debbie’s account,” ................F.B.I. investigation where Judge Kavanaugh could be questioned under oath, , we didn’t feel comfortable releasing this information without their assurances. ** www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/e-mails-show-republican-senate-staff-stymied-a-kavanaugh-accusers-effort-to-give-testimonyIt seems some of the Senate Judiciary Committee staff members were sharing information with Kavanaugh!
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schizo319
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,030
Jun 28, 2014 0:26:58 GMT
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Post by schizo319 on Sept 28, 2018 20:00:14 GMT
She would have been seen as unhinged and aggressive. But not because she was telling the truth, because she hates Republicans and wants to stick it to them. Even if she never mentioned them. Her tears would have been assumed to be staged dramatics. The double standards in how women and men's actions, reactions and emotions are perceived infuriates me. Exactly. I've already seen Dr. Ford criticized for using a "fake little girl victim" voice in her testimony to garner sympathy (by some woman who supposedly saw her speak at a symposium once).
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 7, 2024 7:21:42 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2018 20:01:22 GMT
She wasn't badgered she was questioned, that's what happens at a hearing.
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Post by MichyM on Sept 28, 2018 20:08:36 GMT
I saw this on fb and it was posted by a professor from Stanford I believe....maybe the senate should show this to the gop. Guys ask why women are so pissed off. Even guys with wives and daughters. Jackson Katz, a prominent social researcher, illustrates why. He's done it with hundreds of audiences: "I draw a line down the middle of a chalkboard, sketching a male symbol on one side and a female symbol on the other. Then I ask just the men: What steps do you guys take, on a daily basis, to prevent yourselves from being sexually assaulted? At first there is a kind of awkward silence as the men try to figure out if they've been asked a trick question. The silence gives way to a smattering of nervous laughter. Occasionally, a young a guy will raise his hand and say, 'I stay out of prison.' This is typically followed by another moment of laughter, before someone finally raises his hand and soberly states, 'Nothing. I don't think about it.' Then I ask the women the same question. What steps do you take on a daily basis to prevent yourselves from being sexually assaulted? Women throughout the audience immediately start raising their hands. As the men sit in stunned silence, the women recount safety precautions they take as part of their daily routine. Hold my keys as a potential weapon. Look in the back seat of the car before getting in. Carry a cell phone. Don't go jogging at night. Lock all the windows when I sleep, even on hot summer nights. Be careful not to drink too much. Don't put my drink down and come back to it; make sure I see it being poured. Own a big dog. Carry Mace or pepper spray. Have an unlisted phone number. Have a man's voice on my answering machine. Park in well-lit areas. Don't use parking garages. Don't get on elevators with only one man, or with a group of men. Vary my route home from work. Watch what I wear. Don't use highway rest areas. Use a home alarm system. Don't wear headphones when jogging. Avoid forests or wooded areas, even in the daytime. Don't take a first-floor apartment. Go out in groups. Own a firearm. Meet men on first dates in public places. Make sure to have a car or cab fare. Don't make eye contact with men on the street. Make assertive eye contact with men on the street.” "Don't dress too sexy" "Don't smile at strangers" ― Jackson Katz, The Macho Paradox: Why Some Men Hurt Women and How All Men Can Help (The first man to minor in women's studies at the University of Massachusetts-Amherst, holds a master's degree from the Harvard Graduate School of Education, and a Ph.D. in cultural studies and education from UCLA.) ALL of this. And what's sad and pathetic about this (to me) is that I don't even give these things a second thought. They're just ingrained in me.
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