Deleted
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Oct 7, 2024 11:18:55 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2018 21:02:30 GMT
Fighting for your life and reputation creates a vastly different disposition than simply doing your job does. To predict that his behavior during a normal everyday occurrence will be the same as his behavior and reaction during a catastrophic life event is ludicrous. He's fighting for his and his family's lives from being ended by nut jobs who have decided he was guilty the minute they heard a rumor of an accusation. He's fighting for the stigma of the rest of his life being known as a person who would attempt to rape someone. He's fighting for a career he spent a lifetime of dedicated service to build. So I have to disagree when you say he's not fighting for his life. As far as calling this nothing but a job interview is an insult to both he and Christine Blasey and what they're actually doing there. Even if he doesn’t get the SC nomination (which he will because Republicans) he'll have a cushy judgeship to return to. Fighting for his life is a tad hyperbolic. No, it really isn't. In this day of newsroom shootings, Republican baseball field shootings, public harrasments that keep happening that could get out of hand and Maxine Waters encouraging nut jobs to gather a mob and confront politicians you don't agree with, it really isn't hyperbolic at all.
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Sept 28, 2018 21:02:39 GMT
Yes, exactly. It's second nature to us. Yes, I do this things... Also let people where I am goign and who I will be with... Time frames.......
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Post by crimsoncat05 on Sept 28, 2018 21:04:27 GMT
dt has ordered that the FBI reopen the background investigation
Kavanaugh I have been investigated many times and etc,.................................. I will cooperate in whatever they ask............. etc.......... whew. I wondered there, for a while.
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PLurker
Prolific Pea
Posts: 9,795
Location: Behind the Cheddar Curtain
Jun 28, 2014 3:48:49 GMT
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Post by PLurker on Sept 28, 2018 21:05:53 GMT
even if Mark Judge doesn't remember the assault ,if it happened, because they were too drunk he could still prove if Kavanaugh is a liar on a bunch of questionable things he's said/claimed.
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Post by dewryce on Sept 28, 2018 21:06:29 GMT
Yes... The writer thinks that Kavanaugh has no memory of things that may have happened, which is common with 'blackout drunks' I lived with one, 'blackout drunk', who had no idea on many occasions what he had done. Back than pictures helped! Small potatoes........ An example people that snore refuse to accept that they do until someone records them... Some sleepwalkers have no idea what they have done or even where the have been. dewryce , cbet , revirdsuba99 - Then I suppose the investigation will uncover some truths to see if this is the case (interview witnesses, etc). I understand what you're all saying...of course, it's possible, but I'm sorry, I'm just not sold on it right now. I don't think I was clear. I think she has vivid, detailed memories because it was so traumatic for her. Before his testimony and interview I believed that there was a possibility that he was blackout drunk and/or his memories of the night weren't clear due to the way different memories are stored. After the interview, I was very suspicious. After his testimony? With as cagey, misleading and dishonest he was? I absolutely don't believe that he has no memory of spending any time with her, of being in the room with her. He may not remember details (I suspect he does) but he knows he was the aggressor. Those are my gut feelings.
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Sept 28, 2018 21:06:46 GMT
Too bad it is Friday night, but the FBI does work round the clock!
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Post by crimsoncat05 on Sept 28, 2018 21:09:04 GMT
After his testimony? With as cagey, misleading and dishonest he was? I absolutely don't believe that he has no memory of spending any time with her, of being in the room with her. He may not remember details (I suspect he does) but he knows he was the aggressor. Those are my gut feelings. this is how I felt too, after seeing how he was answering the questions and so nervous; the overanswering, his eagerness, belligerence, talking back to the Senators, etc. all said 'I'm lying' to me. Just like Trump-- whatever he's guilty of, he accuses other people of doing. (oh, and the whole farcical answers to the questions about the yearbook entries?!? total lies, and it was soooo easy to see it. Devil's Triangle, a drinking game? I'm pretty straight-laced, but even I know that's NOT a drinking game!)
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 7, 2024 11:18:55 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2018 21:09:29 GMT
they voted 11-10 to move it to the full senate, but Flake is endorsing the idea of asking for a 1-week FBI investigation into the allegations against Kavanaugh, along with other Republicans and some Dems, asking for this investigation. (gentlemen's agreemnt' between Flake and the Dems; he voted Yes, but appeased the Dems by saying he wanted the additional invesitgation. But they STILL have to get Trump to approve that investigation taking place, right?? so it means there still doesn't HAVE to be a further investigaton? McConnell STILL has to agree to delay the vote, and Trump has to agree to the additional investigation. And he did.
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PLurker
Prolific Pea
Posts: 9,795
Location: Behind the Cheddar Curtain
Jun 28, 2014 3:48:49 GMT
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Post by PLurker on Sept 28, 2018 21:10:26 GMT
if Kavanaugh is lying and/or guilty, would anyone else find it poetic justice if his friend named Judge brings him down. That's a headline writing itself.
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Sept 28, 2018 21:12:44 GMT
I absolutely don't believe that he has no memory of spending any time with her, of being in the room with her. He may not remember details (I suspect he does) but he knows he was the aggressor. Those are my gut feelings. I never meant for anyone to think I thought he didn't remember everything because of alcohol... He surely does remember lots and maybe all of it. Selective memory happens often. As we said in the old days, men had selective hearing. Only heard things they wanted to hear.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 7, 2024 11:18:55 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2018 21:14:21 GMT
I just looooove how Lindsay Graham KNOWS already what the results of the FBI investigation will be... 'we won't find out anything in a week that we already know now...' He must have ESP. Must have picked up that ESP skill from Obama when he stated what the IRS outcome would be, midinvestigation.
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Sept 28, 2018 21:15:23 GMT
Devil's Triangle, a drinking game? I'm pretty straight-laced, but even I know that's NOT a drinking game!) And don't believe it might just be a 3 way..............
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lizacreates
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,856
Aug 29, 2015 2:39:19 GMT
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Post by lizacreates on Sept 28, 2018 21:15:43 GMT
dewryce , cbet , revirdsuba99 - Then I suppose the investigation will uncover some truths to see if this is the case (interview witnesses, etc). I understand what you're all saying...of course, it's possible, but I'm sorry, I'm just not sold on it right now. I don't think I was clear. I think she has vivid, detailed memories because it was so traumatic for her. Before his testimony and interview I believed that there was a possibility that he was blackout drunk and/or his memories of the night weren't clear due to the way different memories are stored. After the interview, I was very suspicious. After his testimony? With as cagey, misleading and dishonest he was? I absolutely don't believe that he has no memory of spending any time with her, of being in the room with her. He may not remember details (I suspect he does) but he knows he was the aggressor. Those are my gut feelings. Ok, I'm sorry I misunderstood your post. My instinct is more in line with yours.
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MizIndependent
Drama Llama
Quit your bullpoop.
Posts: 5,836
Jun 25, 2014 19:43:16 GMT
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Post by MizIndependent on Sept 28, 2018 21:16:15 GMT
I think that's exactly what is being implied - that K drank to excess and has no memory of that event. Or K's argument that it really happened to her, but it wasn't him? Given what Mark Judge has said about his own drinking and blackouts, and what some others have said about K's heavy drinking, I do think it's possible they don't have much, if any, memory about this event. Maybe they have enough to know they don't want to talk to the FBI? Maybe they know they did something, but not exactly what happened? Agreed. And I read something today about surveys of men and sexual violence where they admitted to the facts of a sexual assault -- sexual contact without the consent of the woman -- but did not consider it to be sexual assault. This scenario rings truest for me.
Clearly Dr. Ford experienced an assault.
Mr. Kavanaugh doesn't remember it because:
1. He was black out drunk, and/or
2. it wasn't a significant event for him to remember, or
3. it wasn't him, or
4. it was him and he's actively lying.
I believe the most likely a combination of 1 & 2. But then, there are the " 60 high school contemporaries" and what they say about his character from that time.
I'm all for an FBI investigation. Let's see what they dig up.
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lizacreates
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,856
Aug 29, 2015 2:39:19 GMT
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Post by lizacreates on Sept 28, 2018 21:17:23 GMT
if Kavanaugh is lying and/or guilty, would anyone else find it poetic justice if his friend named Judge brings him down. That's a headline writing itself. (laugh) You're clever.
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Post by crimsoncat05 on Sept 28, 2018 21:19:12 GMT
I also think he might not remember it because it truly wasn't anything out of the ordinary to him... 'just a couple teen-aged guys drinking and messing around, trying to make out with a girl and have a bit of fun' could have been how he saw it at that time. So why should he remember it now?
That's me speculating could have been going on in HIS mind, to be clear... I think guys and girls see this behavior very differently, especially back then-- the girls were 'supposed to' say no, whether they meant it or not, and the boys were supposed to be 'manly' and not believe the no was real- they would keep advancing right past the girl's (fake) resistance. But as someone on the radio pointed out this morning, she was a 15-year old girl going to a Catholic all-girls school... and they were high school seniors.
I didn't grow up with anyone from the country club set, but I can totally picture the guys I grew up with thinking that doing something like what she described might have just been 'innocent fun' in their minds.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 7, 2024 11:18:55 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2018 21:21:19 GMT
Just T I hope you have some time this weekend to be good to yourself and recharge. My heart is with you and the other peas here that have had to deal with the horrors of sexual assault and abuse. This hearing has been nothing but salt in old wounds. Yesterday was a roller coaster of emotions. My trial was in 1997 and in an instant watching her testify brought so many feelings and memories crashing on me like a wave. I would imagine untold thousands of women felt that same way. My attacker was a serial rapist who stalked me and broke into my apartment. I woke up to him standing over me and then he put a knife to my throat. He put a pillowcase over my head so that I could not see and at one point I very nearly suffocated. I truly thought I would die. It took two years to catch him. I spent MANY hours sitting and waiting to speak with investigators and countless phone calls to make sure my file stayed hot. He was caught coming out of an apartment complex after a woman called 911 that he had just attacked. He had a “rape kit” in his car...specific items he used in his attacks. Three weeks after his arrest, I identified him. My attack wa in 1992. He was arrested in 1994. The trial......wait for it....did not happen until 1997! He was allowed to walk free (made bail) the entire time. The man was married...with children...AND he was a middle school teacher. I am pretty certain he was allowed to maintain his job because while he had been charged, he had not been convicted. The trial lasted three weeks. He was free to walk in and out of the court each day. There were several charges against him, he was only found guilty of two. But the main one put him away for life...1st degree sexual assault. He attacked four other women that we know of. He got progressively more violent with each attack. Made the victims shower and the last two he beat so violently that they refused to testify. The second victim had been drinking the night before and the jury was not allowed to know that he had already been convicted in my case. They were not allowed to know that there were 22 points of similarities in her attack as mine, because he said very specific things to each of his victims. He was found not guilty. I will NEVER EVER forget in my whole life how she collapsed when the verdict was read. Feels a lot like it does today watching these hearings. This is SOOOOOOO much more than DAMN politics! It is about justice. Justice for so many who were not able to have that closure. The TRUTH is that these allegations were not investigated. I bore the brunt of the investigations of my attack. I had to go to the county jail to have a rape kit done. It was not done at the hospital. So much intrusion into MY life yet it was him that broke into MY apartment. During the trial, I was told because it was dark I couldn’t possibly have seen him well. Another point was that it was consensual. And again, I simply had the wrong guy. But what my attacker did not realize, he had left a small drop of his DNA at the scene. My attack, out of all others was the only one that had DNA evidence. I ran into a juror of that trial some months later, coming out of a grocery store. She told me everything that happened in the jury room, how one women did not want to convict him. But all the other jurors believed he had done it and did not give up until they convinced her as well. She told me it was because of you...everything you said on the stand. We BELIEVED you. I can only hope that Dr. Ford knows and feels....we BELIEVE her.
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Post by dewryce on Sept 28, 2018 21:23:43 GMT
Now I really want to know exactly what they are going to investigate. I especially want to know if they will have Ford/Kavanaugh speak with expert witnesses (I think that is the term) and provide their reports/opinions.
(Eta: and if they will look into the other allegations)
(Eta2: Will they administer a polygraph? I know they're not admissible in court. But K himself has written an opinion that said they are a good tool for police, and I'm pretty sure I remember reading that the FBI still uses them for various reasons including screening for security clearances. So perhaps they have some value)
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flute4peace
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,757
Jul 3, 2014 14:38:35 GMT
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Post by flute4peace on Sept 28, 2018 21:24:39 GMT
I don't understand what this writer is saying. If Ford isn't lying and Kavanaugh isn't lying, then what are we supposed to think? That K was too drunk and honestly doesn't remember? I think that's exactly what is being implied - that K drank to excess and has no memory of that event. Or K's argument that it really happened to her, but it wasn't him? Given what Mark Judge has said about his own drinking and blackouts, and what some others have said about K's heavy drinking, I do think it's possible they don't have much, if any, memory about this event. Maybe they have enough to know they don't want to talk to the FBI? Maybe they know they did something, but not exactly what happened? I find this theory to be not only plausible but highly possible.
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Sarah*H
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,015
Jun 25, 2014 20:07:06 GMT
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Post by Sarah*H on Sept 28, 2018 21:27:06 GMT
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flute4peace
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,757
Jul 3, 2014 14:38:35 GMT
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Post by flute4peace on Sept 28, 2018 21:28:10 GMT
After his testimony? With as cagey, misleading and dishonest he was? I absolutely don't believe that he has no memory of spending any time with her, of being in the room with her. He may not remember details (I suspect he does) but he knows he was the aggressor. Those are my gut feelings. this is how I felt too, after seeing how he was answering the questions and so nervous; the overanswering, his eagerness, belligerence, talking back to the Senators, etc. all said 'I'm lying' to me. Just like Trump-- whatever he's guilty of, he accuses other people of doing. (oh, and the whole farcical answers to the questions about the yearbook entries?!? total lies, and it was soooo easy to see it. Devil's Triangle, a drinking game? I'm pretty straight-laced, but even I know that's NOT a drinking game!) It was textbook narcissistic deflection.
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flute4peace
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,757
Jul 3, 2014 14:38:35 GMT
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Post by flute4peace on Sept 28, 2018 21:29:36 GMT
I also think he might not remember it because it truly wasn't anything out of the ordinary to him... 'just a couple teen-aged guys drinking and messing around, trying to make out with a girl and have a bit of fun' could have been how he saw it at that time. So why should he remember it now? That's me speculating could have been going on in HIS mind, to be clear... I think guys and girls see this behavior very differently, especially back then-- the girls were 'supposed to' say no, whether they meant it or not, and the boys were supposed to be 'manly' and not believe the no was real- they would keep advancing right past the girl's (fake) resistance. But as someone on the radio pointed out this morning, she was a 15-year old girl going to a Catholic all-girls school... and they were high school seniors. I didn't grow up with anyone from the country club set, but I can totally picture the guys I grew up with thinking that doing something like what she described might have just been 'innocent fun' in their minds. Totally
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Sarah*H
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,015
Jun 25, 2014 20:07:06 GMT
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Post by Sarah*H on Sept 28, 2018 21:30:05 GMT
And you know, despite his alcoholism, Mark Judge has remembered enough to write several books about his youthful escapades so the fragile, forgetful addict excuse is somewhat confusing.
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imsirius
Prolific Pea
Call it as I see it.
Posts: 7,661
Location: Floating in the black veil.
Jul 12, 2014 19:59:28 GMT
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Post by imsirius on Sept 28, 2018 21:30:09 GMT
Agreed. And I read something today about surveys of men and sexual violence where they admitted to the facts of a sexual assault -- sexual contact without the consent of the woman -- but did not consider it to be sexual assault. This scenario rings truest for me.
Clearly Dr. Ford experienced an assault.
Mr. Kavanaugh doesn't remember it because:
1. He was black out drunk, and/or
2. it wasn't a significant event for him to remember, or
3. it wasn't him, or
4. it was him and he's actively lying.
I believe the most likely a combination of 1 & 2. But then, there are the " 60 high school contemporaries" and what they say about his character from that time.
I'm all for an FBI investigation. Let's see what they dig up.
But again, 60 contemporaries who were not at this gathering. It was a very small group. Plus, as I've said before, he could have been very good at hiding that part of his life. Lots are. Third, of the 65 women who "signed" that statement the day after the allegations, only 2 said they were consulted. Just 2. Its all all sorts of suspicious on his side. Republican or not. I'm more worried about his character AS A PERSON, than his political leanings. He could be the damn Pope and his actions would still be questionable for me.
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flute4peace
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,757
Jul 3, 2014 14:38:35 GMT
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Post by flute4peace on Sept 28, 2018 21:32:26 GMT
Just T I hope you have some time this weekend to be good to yourself and recharge. My heart is with you and the other peas here that have had to deal with the horrors of sexual assault and abuse. This hearing has been nothing but salt in old wounds. Yesterday was a roller coaster of emotions. My trial was in 1997 and in an instant watching her testify brought so many feelings and memories crashing on me like a wave. I would imagine untold thousands of women felt that same way. My attacker was a serial rapist who stalked me and broke into my apartment. I woke up to him standing over me and then he put a knife to my throat. He put a pillowcase over my head so that I could not see and at one point I very nearly suffocated. I truly thought I would die. It took two years to catch him. I spent MANY hours sitting and waiting to speak with investigators and countless phone calls to make sure my file stayed hot. He was caught coming out of an apartment complex after a woman called 911 that he had just attacked. He had a “rape kit” in his car...specific items he used in his attacks. Three weeks after his arrest, I identified him. My attack wa in 1992. He was arrested in 1994. The trial......wait for it....did not happen until 1997! He was allowed to walk free (made bail) the entire time. The man was married...with children...AND he was a middle school teacher. I am pretty certain he was allowed to maintain his job because while he had been charged, he had not been convicted. The trial lasted three weeks. He was free to walk in and out of the court each day. There were several charges against him, he was only found guilty of two. But the main one put him away for life...1st degree sexual assault. He attacked four other women that we know of. He got progressively more violent with each attack. Made the victims shower and the last two he beat so violently that they refused to testify. The second victim had been drinking the night before and the jury was not allowed to know that he had already been convicted in my case. They were not allowed to know that there were 22 points of similarities in her attack as mine, because he said very specific things to each of his victims. He was found not guilty. I will NEVER EVER forget in my whole life how she collapsed when the verdict was read. Feels a lot like it does today watching these hearings. This is SOOOOOOO much more than DAMN politics! It is about justice. Justice for so many who were not able to have that closure. The TRUTH is that these allegations were not investigated. I bore the brunt of the investigations of my attack. I had to go to the county jail to have a rape kit done. It was not done at the hospital. So much intrusion into MY life yet it was him that broke into MY apartment. During the trial, I was told because it was dark I couldn’t possibly have seen him well. Another point was that it was consensual. And again, I simply had the wrong guy. But what my attacker did not realize, he had left a small drop of his DNA at the scene. My attack, out of all others was the only one that had DNA evidence. I ran into a juror of that trial some months later, coming out of a grocery store. She told me everything that happened in the jury room, how one women did not want to convict him. But all the other jurors believed he had done it and did not give up until they convinced her as well. She told me it was because of you...everything you said on the stand. We BELIEVED you. I can only hope that Dr. Ford knows and feels....we BELIEVE her. This is one of the most powerful things I have ever read. Be gentle with yourself. You are a survivor!!!
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lizacreates
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,856
Aug 29, 2015 2:39:19 GMT
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Post by lizacreates on Sept 28, 2018 21:35:10 GMT
Would depend on how the questions were being asked. If the line of questioning was accusing her of lying or having an agenda then I would expect her to react in an angry and forceful way. Oh but they did question her memory. They questioned her political motivations for coming forward. They absolutely DID insinuate she had an agenda. All the questions about her flying habits.... I’m so glad you mentioned "political motivations" and “agenda” because it’s good to clarify and rebut some of these accusations against Ford. She contacted the WaPo tipline anonymously and her congressional rep, Eshoo, BEFORE Kavanaugh was nominated by Trump. In early July she read that Kavanaugh’s name was on the shortlist of nominees and that’s when she began debating with herself whether she should say something or not, or say something but remain anonymous. She finally decided to go ahead and send an email to the encrypted tipline. Again, this happened before Trump’s announcement to the public. If she was some left-wing political operative, eager to stop a far-right jurist, she would have waited until AFTER the announcement and then spring into action against whoever it was who was chosen.
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MizIndependent
Drama Llama
Quit your bullpoop.
Posts: 5,836
Jun 25, 2014 19:43:16 GMT
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Post by MizIndependent on Sept 28, 2018 21:37:01 GMT
allipeas - OMG. I just want to hug you. I'm so sorry. ((((((HUGS))))))
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Post by andreasmom on Sept 28, 2018 21:37:01 GMT
Just T I hope you have some time this weekend to be good to yourself and recharge. My heart is with you and the other peas here that have had to deal with the horrors of sexual assault and abuse. This hearing has been nothing but salt in old wounds. Yesterday was a roller coaster of emotions. My trial was in 1997 and in an instant watching her testify brought so many feelings and memories crashing on me like a wave. I would imagine untold thousands of women felt that same way. My attacker was a serial rapist who stalked me and broke into my apartment. I woke up to him standing over me and then he put a knife to my throat. He put a pillowcase over my head so that I could not see and at one point I very nearly suffocated. I truly thought I would die. It took two years to catch him. I spent MANY hours sitting and waiting to speak with investigators and countless phone calls to make sure my file stayed hot. He was caught coming out of an apartment complex after a woman called 911 that he had just attacked. He had a “rape kit” in his car...specific items he used in his attacks. Three weeks after his arrest, I identified him. My attack wa in 1992. He was arrested in 1994. The trial......wait for it....did not happen until 1997! He was allowed to walk free (made bail) the entire time. The man was married...with children...AND he was a middle school teacher. I am pretty certain he was allowed to maintain his job because while he had been charged, he had not been convicted. The trial lasted three weeks. He was free to walk in and out of the court each day. There were several charges against him, he was only found guilty of two. But the main one put him away for life...1st degree sexual assault. He attacked four other women that we know of. He got progressively more violent with each attack. Made the victims shower and the last two he beat so violently that they refused to testify. The second victim had been drinking the night before and the jury was not allowed to know that he had already been convicted in my case. They were not allowed to know that there were 22 points of similarities in her attack as mine, because he said very specific things to each of his victims. He was found not guilty. I will NEVER EVER forget in my whole life how she collapsed when the verdict was read. Feels a lot like it does today watching these hearings. This is SOOOOOOO much more than DAMN politics! It is about justice. Justice for so many who were not able to have that closure. The TRUTH is that these allegations were not investigated. I bore the brunt of the investigations of my attack. I had to go to the county jail to have a rape kit done. It was not done at the hospital. So much intrusion into MY life yet it was him that broke into MY apartment. During the trial, I was told because it was dark I couldn’t possibly have seen him well. Another point was that it was consensual. And again, I simply had the wrong guy. But what my attacker did not realize, he had left a small drop of his DNA at the scene. My attack, out of all others was the only one that had DNA evidence. I ran into a juror of that trial some months later, coming out of a grocery store. She told me everything that happened in the jury room, how one women did not want to convict him. But all the other jurors believed he had done it and did not give up until they convinced her as well. She told me it was because of you...everything you said on the stand. We BELIEVED you. I can only hope that Dr. Ford knows and feels....we BELIEVE her. Sending you love! I admire your strength and perseverance. 💕💕💕
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Post by dewryce on Sept 28, 2018 21:38:28 GMT
I do believe the Democrats would want to try and get him to testify, even knowing he will plead the fifth. A) It's their job to try and get the truth. And in order to do so they need to ask this very important witness to testify. You do that with a subpoena when necessary. (Or always?) Not for nothing, it's the Republicans' job as well. B) Even for political show. But Cruz can go pleasure himself with the insinuation that they would take pleasure in doing so because of this man's addictions.
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jayfab
Drama Llama
procastinating
Posts: 5,591
Jun 26, 2014 21:55:15 GMT
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Post by jayfab on Sept 28, 2018 21:39:52 GMT
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