trollie
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,580 
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Post by trollie on Mar 14, 2019 15:09:50 GMT
I know the left's nonstop talking point is that the right is "afraid" of AOC, they're horrified and outraged by her, and sprinkle that with the same racism bull. WHY would the right be "afraid" of her? Because she gets media attention? The republicans bash democrats. Standard. The democrats bash republicans. Standard. The republicans and democrats bash Bernie. Standard. What's not standard? Tossing out a GND that makes no sense to either democrats or republicans, with absolutely no explanations, leaving both parties scratching their heads. Several presidential candidates quickly signed on to this GND without even reading or thinking it thru and will now have to explain how they'd work this deal. Some might think they were afraid not to sign on. Threatening members of your own party to add them to a list to be primaried if they vote with republicans. Those two things alone have absolutely nothing to do with republicans. She put that on the democrats. Finish all of this off with Tom Perez' decision to not allow FOX to host any presidential debates. Really? Even some democrats disagree with the DNC's decision for this. I don't see any republicans shaking in their boots.oh, I do. AOC is smart, she is educated, she is articulate and succinct and will not be intimidated. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2019 16:08:52 GMT
To those who keep saying that AOC is “articulate” I invite you to view the video posted on the Catch all thread Part 24 page 38 or 39.
“Cuomo stunned - AOC nails how to pay for Medicare for all.” is the title.
I watched it when it was first posted and what I saw was a female version of trump who talks faster. In that she was just throwing stuff out there. You could see her mind working to come with an answer and the end result was just a bunch of words.
Once before she was asked how to pay from Medicare for all and her answer was to just pay for it. I think, for her, that was the most honest of the 2 answers.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2019 20:19:31 GMT
Oh, go fuck yourself. I don’t have an opinion on Amazon in NYC and I said as much when leftturnonly was having a conniption about the subject and evil AOC before. She also seemed completely unaware that there were many New Yorkers who were opposed to the move and it wasn’t a situation where AOC single-handedly scuttled the deal 🙄 Several of us provided information about why some locals objected to Amazon, etc. But she clearly still blames AOC for it, which is disingenuous at best. It has nothing to do with my personal opinion - I live on the other side of the country and didn’t care either way if Amazon built in NYC. Looks like you don't like the condescension you threw out there coming back at you. Judging by her words, it seems to me that leftturnonly is completely aware. What's completely disingenuous is acting like you have no opinion on this and that AOC had no part in this. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2019 20:33:05 GMT
To those who keep saying that AOC is “articulate” I invite you to view the video posted on the Catch all thread Part 24 page 38 or 39. “Cuomo stunned - AOC nails how to pay for Medicare for all.” is the title. I watched it when it was first posted and what I saw was a female version of trump who talks faster. In that she was just throwing stuff out there. You could see her mind working to come with an answer and the end result was just a bunch of words. Once before she was asked how to pay from Medicare for all and her answer was to just pay for it. I think, for her, that was the most honest of the 2 answers. A female version of Trump. Perfect description. Articulate doesn't cover for ignorance and dishonesty.  |
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Post by sasha on Mar 14, 2019 20:36:57 GMT
I don't understand the extreme hate of her, but I certainly don't understand the infatuation of a self-avowed socialist who puts up The Green New Deal which is woefully unrealistic. Anyone can throw shit on the wall; doesn't mean it's a good plan. She's far too left for even her own party. She'll flame out.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2019 20:40:57 GMT
I don't understand the extreme hate of her, but I certainly don't understand the infatuation of a self-avowed socialist who puts up The Green New Deal which is woefully unrealistic. Anyone can throw shit on the wall; doesn't mean it's a good plan. She's far too left for even her own party. She'll flame out. I can discuss what doesn't work with her ideas and also her dishonesty and still not hate her. |
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Post by sunshine on Mar 14, 2019 20:42:01 GMT
I know the left's nonstop talking point is that the right is "afraid" of AOC, they're horrified and outraged by her, and sprinkle that with the same racism bull. WHY would the right be "afraid" of her? Because she gets media attention? The republicans bash democrats. Standard. The democrats bash republicans. Standard. The republicans and democrats bash Bernie. Standard. What's not standard? Tossing out a GND that makes no sense to either democrats or republicans, with absolutely no explanations, leaving both parties scratching their heads. Several presidential candidates quickly signed on to this GND without even reading or thinking it thru and will now have to explain how they'd work this deal. Some might think they were afraid not to sign on. Threatening members of your own party to add them to a list to be primaried if they vote with republicans. Those two things alone have absolutely nothing to do with republicans. She put that on the democrats. Finish all of this off with Tom Perez' decision to not allow FOX to host any presidential debates. Really? Even some democrats disagree with the DNC's decision for this. I don't see any republicans shaking in their boots.oh, I do. AOC is smart, she is educated, she is articulate and succinct and will not be intimidated. You seem to elevate her above all others in the party. Is she the only democrat that is smart, educated, articulate and succinct? If so, and nobody else in the party has those same qualities to cause the GOP to be "afraid", I stand by my statement. The clip I saw of her questioning Wells Fargo paints a totally different picture. What the hell was she even talking about?
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Post by karinec on Mar 14, 2019 20:55:14 GMT
To those who keep saying that AOC is “articulate” I invite you to view the video posted on the Catch all thread Part 24 page 38 or 39. “Cuomo stunned - AOC nails how to pay for Medicare for all.” is the title. I watched it when it was first posted and what I saw was a female version of trump who talks faster. In that she was just throwing stuff out there. You could see her mind working to come with an answer and the end result was just a bunch of words. Once before she was asked how to pay from Medicare for all and her answer was to just pay for it. I think, for her, that was the most honest of the 2 answers. A female version of Trump. Perfect description. Articulate doesn't cover for ignorance and dishonesty. You're quoting Ryan Saavedra? Really? The same guy who said, "People think I'm kidding when I say this but the crusades need to come back", while working for Breitbart?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2019 21:10:15 GMT
A female version of Trump. Perfect description. Articulate doesn't cover for ignorance and dishonesty. You're quoting Ryan Saavedra? Really? The same guy who said, "People think I'm kidding when I say this but the crusades need to come back", while working for Breitbart?
It does not matter who caught her lying about what Jerry Falwell Jr said. What matters is that she lied. Here is the video of what he said in it's entirety. It's in no way unintelligible, as she claims. It's there, clear as day. |
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Post by redhead32 on Mar 14, 2019 21:18:41 GMT
You're quoting Ryan Saavedra? Really? The same guy who said, "People think I'm kidding when I say this but the crusades need to come back", while working for Breitbart?
It does not matter who caught her lying about what Jerry Falwell Jr said. What matters is that she lied. Here is the video of what he said in it's entirety. It's in no way unintelligible, as she claims. It's there, clear as day. I watched the clip. I got the end the Muslims part - clear as day. The next part of the sentence? The only reason I know what he said was because it has been quoted on this thread. But I got the "get your concealed carry permit - we offer a course" loud and clear ... as well as the part about teaching them a lesson if they ever show up here. Gee. I wonder who "them" are to Jerry Fallwell Jr? I feel like I need to shower after watching that clip. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2019 21:28:17 GMT
twitter.com/i/status/1103007090895802369It does not matter who caught her lying about what Jerry Falwell Jr said. What matters is that she lied. Here is the video of what he said in it's entirety. It's in no way unintelligible, as she claims. It's there, clear as day. I watched the clip. I got the end the Muslims part - clear as day. The next part of the sentence? The only reason I know what he said was because it has been quoted on this thread. But I got the "get your concealed carry permit - we offer a course" loud and clear ... as well as the part about teaching them a lesson if they ever show up here. Gee. I wonder who "them" are to Jerry Fallwell Jr? I feel like I need to shower after watching that clip. He's talking about terrorists. That's what his anecdote was all about. The San Bernardino terrorists. That's also how you know what he said in full. |
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Post by Zee on Mar 14, 2019 21:31:28 GMT
I don’t care if she fucked a pig on Main Street if she can get healthcare reform,educational loans etc! Nooooo I just got Black Mirror flash backs 😢😢😢 |
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Mar 14, 2019 21:36:43 GMT
I watched the clip. I got the end the Muslims part - clear as day. The next part of the sentence? The only reason I know what he said was because it has been quoted on this thread. But I got the "get your concealed carry permit - we offer a course" loud and clear ... as well as the part about teaching them a lesson if they ever show up here. Gee. I wonder who "them" are to Jerry Fallwell Jr? I feel like I need to shower after watching that clip. He's talking about terrorists. That's what his anecdote was about. Terrorists. First off, Falwell made comments about “his boys always having guns” that it was something they were born with. And went in to say “see what happens when “they” show up to take alway his cows”. (This after several speakers making fun of AOC and the GND. He openly suggested that he’d shoot her (anyone). Not terrorists, but a congresswomen as well as any other person. Republicans think that they are being clever with their words. Always playing fucking games of semantics. And they have branded Democrats “angry, radical, right, baby killing, libs, 2A haters, anti-Americans, terrorizing the good patriots of the USA. Who the hell do you think they’re referring to—-almost the ENTIRE 2019 CPAC was to disparage, make fun of, denounce, and vilify Democrats. Republicans are already on a campaign denouncing the 2020 election (only if a democrat wins, funnily enough) by claiming the 2020 election will be illegitimate. Just today the fucking potus was threatening to use military, police, and bikers against his opponents. You can continue to play dumb, stay obtuse. But they’re saying it. They’re doing it. They are going to lie, cheat, steal (because they cannot win without doing so) |
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Mar 14, 2019 21:53:50 GMT
Case in point...  |
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Post by karinec on Mar 14, 2019 21:57:28 GMT
@eighteen24 - you've missed my point, entirely. When you quote someone like Ryan Saavedra, whose purpose in life is clearly to tweet out twisted, pseudo-intellectual right wing bologna, you lose all credibility.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2019 22:04:40 GMT
@eighteen24 - you've missed my point, entirely. When you quote someone like Ryan Saavedra, whose purpose in life is clearly to tweet out twisted, pseudo-intellectual right wing bologna, you lose all credibility. And see... I think when you dismiss the facts because you don't like who said them, you lose all credibility. |
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Post by katiejane on Mar 14, 2019 22:11:46 GMT
You're quoting Ryan Saavedra? Really? The same guy who said, "People think I'm kidding when I say this but the crusades need to come back", while working for Breitbart?
It does not matter who caught her lying about what Jerry Falwell Jr said. What matters is that she lied. Here is the video of what he said in it's entirety. It's in no way unintelligible, as she claims. It's there, clear as day. Sorry to disagree, but I couldn't make it out. |
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Post by karinec on Mar 14, 2019 22:14:15 GMT
@eighteen24 - is that what Ryan Saavedra does, presents facts? Or is he presenting a point of view based on snippets of information that small minded people like to think are facts, because they are too lazy or ignorant to do their own investigating? I think I know the answer to that one.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2019 23:45:43 GMT
If you don’t know what he said on the end of that sentence, that’s your first clue not to use the clip to smear the man. She’s either really as intelligent as you claim and can put the many pieces of information provided in that clip together enough to know what he said, or intelligent enough to know to investigate to find out what he said before she tries to use it to falsely smear the man. Or she’s not that intelligent. Pick one.
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trollie
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,580
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Post by trollie on Mar 14, 2019 23:57:12 GMT
oh, I do. AOC is smart, she is educated, she is articulate and succinct and will not be intimidated. You seem to elevate her above all others in the party. Is she the only democrat that is smart, educated, articulate and succinct? If so, and nobody else in the party has those same qualities to cause the GOP to be "afraid", I stand by my statement. The clip I saw of her questioning Wells Fargo paints a totally different picture. What the hell was she even talking about?
Reading comprehension. It's a good thing. This thread is about AOC, which is why I am commenting about AOC. Saying someone is smart, educated, articulate and succinct is NOT saying that others don't have those same qualities. Not sure why the republicans are picking on her, but they went after the wrong freshman congresswoman. Guess what? There are others that also aren't going to be intimidated either. |
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Post by angel97701 on Mar 15, 2019 1:31:45 GMT
I will say it has been an interesting read to the many opinions held across the 2PeasRefugees platform. AOC is educated and charismatic. She is the young shiny star for the Social Democrats, and somewhat of a burr in the side for established Democratic party. She is not setting out to make friends or play nice. I would not agree that she is articulate, as there are many times she's not appeared to know how government works or geopolitics. Other posts have verified her statements on video. Most recently in the House, her questions of Timothy Sloan about "caging children" are reprehensible and meant to get a rise out of everyone. When she didn't get the answer she sought, and knows that she only has 5 minutes she tries another tactic and again has a few questions that don't make sense about funding pipelines and environment damage. She gave the question "what if there was a leak, should the banks pay because they financed the pipeline?" Keep in mind the purpose of the hearing was “Holding Megabanks Accountable: An Examination of Wells Fargo’s Pattern of Consumer Abuses.” If she were truly representing her constituents you would think she would ask questions about how Wells Fargo planned to make appropriate changes and perhaps compensate those hurt in her district?
She does appear to do her some of her homework, but doesn't always get all the details correct. For what is worth, I personally have championed many young women and men of color in my professional career as a teacher. I have also witnessed first-hand the unwarranted discrimination that against people of color. I worked at a HS that was 80% African American, and often would be the only Caucasian in the room. I am proud of what my former students are accomplishing as nurses, professors, attorneys and many other professions. (Facebook is a wonderful thing!) I've worked in two different states with many immigrant populations from Vietnam, Cambodia (including Hmong), Armenia (Iran), Ethiopia, Russia, Mexico, Philippines, and many countries in Central and South America.
My criticism of AOC is not rooted in her gender or ethnicity. My concern (and no I'm not afraid of her) is the people behind her, that are feeding her the information she so freely quotes. The fact that at times she can come across as articulate and well rehearsed, and then the very next day not be able to speak in a clear sentence with any substance makes me question if she is indeed a "puppet congress woman".
I also want to address the Living wage aspect for her congressional staff. Many Congressional members do this with their staff under the guise of the $126K and under do not have to report their other sources of income. So much for transparency.
The Green New Deal Dream (quoting Nancy Pelosi)? Real policy making takes reality into consideration. Every living being on the planet produces Carbon Dioxide as part of cellular respiration, not just cows. This topic is extremely complex and can not be addressed with all the other socialistic policies thrown into the bucket. The US is already reducing their emissions. Do we have more work to do? Yes, but her concept is unworkable.
Who are the people behind her? Saikat Chakrabarti, Zack Exley and others. Saikat now has his own finance impropriety questions from her campaign. Saikat was researching how to write laws while the staff wrote the Green New Deal. Read on peas, New Yorker Article |
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Post by redhead32 on Mar 15, 2019 1:42:33 GMT
I just don't get this whole thread. She's doing what she was elected to do. She plays the social media game better than a lot of the other legislators. She's inexperienced but doing her homework. And people are coming unglued.
Yet when Trump took office, people were all "give him a chance" and "there's a learning curve" and "of course he misspeaks but we know what he meant."
AOC - even when I don't agree with her policies - is what I want right now. I want someone willing to work, willing to try to make changes, willing to push against the system. I'm tired of the status quo. The Ben Sasses of the world make me gag with their words-words-words followed by absolutely no action (see today's vote). I'm willing to give her - and more like her - a chance. She's taken minimal money from PACs, and I don't think any dark money financed her campaign. She's educated, and she's at least trying to make a difference. YMMV.
ETA: Clearly, experience and political understanding didn't matter to just under half of the country during the presidential election. Why are we holding AOC to a higher standard? When is the last time you heard the President give a speech or talk that it was clear he had prepared for and understood completely? I think there is a double standard that goes beyond the D or the R by her name.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2019 3:21:51 GMT
She's inexperienced but doing her homework. And people are coming unglued. Disagreeing with her policies and acknowledging her ignorance does not equal "coming unglued". AOC - even when I don't agree with her policies - is what I want right now. I want someone willing to work, willing to try to make changes, willing to push against the system. If you disagree with what she's doing policy-wise, why would you want her in there doing the push against the system to do things you don't want done? She's taken minimal money from PACs, and I don't think any dark money financed her campaign. Sounds familiar. She really is like the better looking version of Trump... in so many ways. ETA: Clearly, experience and political understanding didn't matter to just under half of the country during the presidential election. Why are we holding AOC to a higher standard? When is the last time you heard the President give a speech or talk that it was clear he had prepared for and understood completely? I think there is a double standard that goes beyond the D or the R by her name. It's the same thing on both sides. It always happens, and goes back and forth between the sides. Many of the standards people hold Trump to are ones they let slide and even defended the lack of, with the ones they voted for. |
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Post by redhead32 on Mar 15, 2019 3:50:11 GMT
She's inexperienced but doing her homework. And people are coming unglued. Disagreeing with her policies and acknowledging her ignorance does not equal "coming unglued". AOC - even when I don't agree with her policies - is what I want right now. I want someone willing to work, willing to try to make changes, willing to push against the system. If you disagree with what she's doing policy-wise, why would you want her in there doing the push against the system to do things you don't want done? She's taken minimal money from PACs, and I don't think any dark money financed her campaign. Sounds familiar. She really is like the better looking version of Trump... in so many ways. ETA: Clearly, experience and political understanding didn't matter to just under half of the country during the presidential election. Why are we holding AOC to a higher standard? When is the last time you heard the President give a speech or talk that it was clear he had prepared for and understood completely? I think there is a double standard that goes beyond the D or the R by her name. It's the same thing on both sides. It always happens, and goes back and forth between the sides. Many of the standards people hold Trump to are ones they let slide and even defended the lack of, with the ones they voted for. "Acknowledging her ignorance." Lol. Guess we will just have to agree to disagree. As for comparisons of AOC and Trump, you seem to have all the answers and I'll leave you to it. I've seen an awful lot of conservatives in my real life circles reduced to mocking memes and snarky remarks. For someone so "ignorant" and inexperienced, she certainly does have a lot of you talking about her. Lots of free rent space in your heads. On another topic, did you used to go by a different name? You seem very familiar. |
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Post by crimsoncat05 on Mar 15, 2019 4:01:39 GMT
On another topic, did you used to go by a different name? You seem very familiar. I hadn't noticed that, but now that you point it out... |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2019 6:27:04 GMT
The CEO of Wells Fargo was on the hot seat at House hearing this week. AOC is member of the committee and below is an excerpt of her questioning.
This is why I'm not impressed with her questioning or her ideas. And for the record, I’m not holding her to a higher standard. I just don’t like her ideas or her methods.
1. With technology the world can move completely away from all fossil fuels. But we are not there yet. So why does she feel the need to ask the guy if the bank should pay for damages caused by climate change because they finance projects that involve fossil fuels? Read what “damages” she is suggesting banks pay for.
2. Think about the ramifications of her suggestion. There is inherent risk in a lot of private company projects financed by banks. Projects that benefit the public. If it becomes as she is suggesting that banks pay for any damage done by businesses/projects they finance, they will quit financing them. Then what? Where is the money going to come from?
“Ocasio-Cortez then switched topics to the Dakota Access Pipeline and asked Sloan if Wells Fargo should be held responsible 1. “for the damages incurred by climate change due to the financing of fossil fuels and these projects.”
When Sloan told the congresswoman he wouldn’t know how those costs could be calculated, she said, “Say from spills, or when we have to reinvest in infrastructure building sea walls from the erosion of, um, from the erosion of infrastructure or cleanups, wildfires, etc….”
“Related to that pipeline?” Sloan replied. “I’m not aware that there’s been any of what you’ve described that’s occurred that’s related to that pipeline.”
Speaking over Sloan, she asked, “How about, uh, the clean ups from the leaks of the Dakota Access pipeline?”
“I’m not aware of the leaks associated with the Dakota Access pipeline that you’re describing,” Sloan responded.”
2. “So, hypothetically, if there was a leak from the Dakota Access pipeline, why shouldn’t Wells Fargo pay for the clean up of it since it paid for the construction of the pipeline itself?”
“Because we don’t operate the pipeline, we provide financing to the company that’s operating the pipeline…” Sloan answered.
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Post by lucyg on Mar 15, 2019 6:39:36 GMT
redhead32 and crimsoncat05, all you need to do is click on any poster’s name to go to her profile page where you’ll see the official username, which is usually but not always the same as the display name.
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Post by gar on Mar 15, 2019 7:51:20 GMT
My concern (and no I'm not afraid of him) is the people behind him, that are feeding him the information he so freely quotes. The fact that at times he can come across as articulate (rarely, granted....) and well rehearsed, and then the very next day not be able to speak in a clear sentence with any substance makes me question
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Post by crimsoncat05 on Mar 15, 2019 14:15:26 GMT
redhead32 and crimsoncat05 , all you need to do is click on any poster’s name to go to her profile page where you’ll see the official username, which is usually but not always the same as the display name. ahhh- thank you! yup. |
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Post by angel97701 on Mar 15, 2019 14:23:48 GMT
My concern (and no I'm not afraid of him) is the people behind him, that are feeding him the information he so freely quotes. The fact that at times he can come across as articulate (rarely, granted....) and well rehearsed, and then the very next day not be able to speak in a clear sentence with any substance makes me question
So what is your point?
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