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Post by myshelly on Jul 21, 2019 21:40:42 GMT
Then what exactly do you think you’re doing. I’d love to know. Trying to explain that, in this specific situation, in the area in question, the word "ghetto" doesn't necessarily mean what you think it means. The connotation is different. Still shitty, but different. So if you are not white, blonde, tall, and thin nosed, you belong in a ghetto. According to you, that is not racist. What is it? What other connotation does it have? |
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Post by myshelly on Jul 21, 2019 21:42:22 GMT
If used towards a black person, then it would have racial overtones. But this area is very white (just to show how white, in my graduating class of 400+, I probably had around 20 non-white classmates). Doesn't make it right and I certainly don't excuse it, but I would say for most of us growing up there we didn't know it had another meaning. We thought it was about socioeconomic status. Now we would know differently. When we know better, we do better. You know what, maybe everyone should just listen to *sprout*. She's clarifying this in a way that I haven't been able to. You brought up the white, blonde, tall, and thin nosed. You need to defend it. You need to tell us why your bullshit isn’t racist. Yes, sprout makes way more sense than you do. But you brought your own racist stuff into this thread. It’s offensive. I hope you can learn why. |
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Post by lucyg on Jul 21, 2019 22:01:53 GMT
And what would you call it when the recipients of this lovely sentiment are, indeed, black? Still not racially motivated, because the speakers (people I’m sure I’d love to be friends with. NOT) are already loose with racist terminology like “get back to the ghetto”? If used towards a black person, then it would have racial overtones. But this area is very white (just to show how white, in my graduating class of 400+, I probably had around 20 non-white classmates). Doesn't make it right and I certainly don't excuse it, but I would say for most of us growing up there we didn't know it had another meaning. We thought it was about socioeconomic status. Now we would know differently. When we know better, we do better. Okay. But this thread is about a drunk woman telling a black family to go back to the ghetto. Oh, and calling the police to report gang activity. So, full circle ... we’re back to YES, this was racist behavior. |
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Post by Darcy Collins on Jul 21, 2019 22:07:58 GMT
I'm a bit late to this party. I think part of the confusion may be that none of the individuals on the video appear to be a person of color. Now perhaps in Michigan it's obvious that the child is biracial - but as someone who grew up in an extremely diverse area, I could assume any number of backgrounds and wouldn't have assumed his father was black if I saw the family. Now perhaps in this part of Michigan no being obviously ango-saxon is enough??
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kibblesandbits
Pearl Clutcher
At the corner of Awesome and Bombdiggity
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Post by kibblesandbits on Jul 21, 2019 22:09:22 GMT
I'm a bit late to this party. I think part of the confusion may be that none of the individuals on the video appear to be a person of color. Now perhaps in Michigan it's obvious that the child is biracial - but as someone who grew up in an extremely diverse area, I could assume any number of backgrounds and wouldn't have assumed his father was black if I saw the family. Now perhaps in this part of Michigan no being obviously ango-saxon is enough?? Correct. There is no one of color in the video. Hence, my original comments. |
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kibblesandbits
Pearl Clutcher
At the corner of Awesome and Bombdiggity
Posts: 3,305
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Post by kibblesandbits on Jul 21, 2019 22:11:14 GMT
You know what, maybe everyone should just listen to *sprout* . She's clarifying this in a way that I haven't been able to. You brought up the white, blonde, tall, and thin nosed. You need to defend it. You need to tell us why your bullshit isn’t racist. Yes, sprout makes way more sense that you do. But you brought your own racist stuff into this thread. It’s offensive. I hope you can learn why. You know, just stop. Really. I'm trying to explain the cultural dynamics of a region. You're forcing that into something it is not. You are welcome to continue with me, but we are at cross purposes. You are unable to understand me, and I you. Perhaps another topic will go better between us. |
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inkedup
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,837
Jun 26, 2014 5:00:26 GMT
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Post by inkedup on Jul 21, 2019 22:15:37 GMT
I'm a bit late to this party. I think part of the confusion may be that none of the individuals on the video appear to be a person of color. Now perhaps in Michigan it's obvious that the child is biracial - but as someone who grew up in an extremely diverse area, I could assume any number of backgrounds and wouldn't have assumed his father was black if I saw the family. Now perhaps in this part of Michigan no being obviously ango-saxon is enough?? The children that were being dropped off are black. I don't care what you saw in the video or didn't. The assumptions Mrs. "Go back to the Ghetto" made are that a) black people belong in the ghetto; b) black people are all gang members, and c) black people are not welcome and do not belong in that neighborhood. But I'm sure there's a totally honest, non-bigoted reason that lady told their mother to go back to the ghetto and brought up gangs. Maybe she does that to all her neighbors. |
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Post by myshelly on Jul 21, 2019 22:16:18 GMT
You brought up the white, blonde, tall, and thin nosed. You need to defend it. You need to tell us why your bullshit isn’t racist. Yes, sprout makes way more sense that you do. But you brought your own racist stuff into this thread. It’s offensive. I hope you can learn why. You know, just stop. Really. I'm trying to explain the cultural dynamics of a region. You're forcing that into something it is not. You are welcome to continue with me, but we are at cross purposes. You are unable to understand me, and I you. Perhaps another topic will go better between us. You are being purposely obtuse. You have to know why what you said was offensive. |
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trollie
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,580
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Post by trollie on Jul 21, 2019 22:19:21 GMT
I'm a bit late to this party. I think part of the confusion may be that none of the individuals on the video appear to be a person of color. Now perhaps in Michigan it's obvious that the child is biracial - but as someone who grew up in an extremely diverse area, I could assume any number of backgrounds and wouldn't have assumed his father was black if I saw the family. Now perhaps in this part of Michigan no being obviously ango-saxon is enough?? Correct. There is no one of color in the video. Hence, my original comments. Since drunk lady lives across the street, she would know that Dad is black and that the children are biracial. She was being racist and hateful, plain and simple. |
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Post by Darcy Collins on Jul 21, 2019 22:31:54 GMT
Correct. There is no one of color in the video. Hence, my original comments. Since drunk lady lives across the street, she would know that Dad is black and that the children are biracial. She was being racist and hateful, plain and simple. that's an excellent point, I imagine the neighbor does have more context than random people watching the video. I grew up in a diverse area - having a bit more melanin wouldn't make one jump to black - but nothing really excuses the neighbors drunken 911 call. |
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Post by myshelly on Jul 21, 2019 22:35:55 GMT
You brought up the white, blonde, tall, and thin nosed. You need to defend it. You need to tell us why your bullshit isn’t racist. Yes, sprout makes way more sense that you do. But you brought your own racist stuff into this thread. It’s offensive. I hope you can learn why. You know, just stop. Really. I'm trying to explain the cultural dynamics of a region. You're forcing that into something it is not. You are welcome to continue with me, but we are at cross purposes. You are unable to understand me, and I you. Perhaps another topic will go better between us. I also don’t understand why you think the two are mutuality exclusive. You are trying to explain the dynamics and everything you have posted says the dynamics are racist. |
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inkedup
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,837
Jun 26, 2014 5:00:26 GMT
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Post by inkedup on Jul 21, 2019 22:38:08 GMT
Since drunk lady lives across the street, she would know that Dad is black and that the children are biracial. She was being racist and hateful, plain and simple. that's an excellent point, I imagine the neighbor does have more context than random people watching the video. I grew up in a diverse area - having a bit more melanin wouldn't make one jump to black - but nothing really excuses the neighbors drunken 911 call. "Having a bit more melanin wouldn't make one jump to black." I have a lot of respect for you, but you are really off base here. So it's not racist to scream about ghettos and gangs and call the police if the person isn't pigmented enough for you to consider them black? Spolier alert: THAT IS A CLASSIST, BIGOTED, SHITTY THING TO SAY TO ANYONE. But in this case, it was said to a woman who was dropping off her children who are, if not black enough, certainly a lot more pigmented than the drunk you are working so hard to defend. |
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trollie
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,580
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Post by trollie on Jul 21, 2019 22:38:40 GMT
Since drunk lady lives across the street, she would know that Dad is black and that the children are biracial. She was being racist and hateful, plain and simple. that's an excellent point, I imagine the neighbor does have more context than random people watching the video. I grew up in a diverse area - having a bit more melanin wouldn't make one jump to black - but nothing really excuses the neighbors drunken 911 call. Interesting that this happened the same week that Trump told 4 congresswomen of color to go back where they came from. Coincidence? I think not. |
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Post by dewryce on Jul 21, 2019 22:40:01 GMT
I tried... and failed miserably. Mental gymnastics are not my thing, I guess. 😏 I'll take a stab at it. The little West Michigan town I grew up in was always referred to as the ghetto of the bigger, wealthier, snobbier nextdoor neighbor town. If "go back to the ghetto" was used in the snobbier town it meant to go back to the other town. Not racially motivated since both had (and still have) the same monochromatic population. And if a gang was referenced as well? |
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Post by SockMonkey on Jul 21, 2019 22:46:24 GMT
 ETA text from image: If you're looking for a simple way to determine if something is about race, here are some basic rules. And when I say basic, I mean basic.
1. It is about race if a person of color thinks it is about race.
2. It is about race if it disproportionately or differently affects people of color.
3. It is about race if it fits into a broader pattern of events that disproportionately or differently affect people of color.From DiAngelo’s ”White Fragility” Perpetual reminder. |
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Post by Darcy Collins on Jul 21, 2019 22:55:14 GMT
that's an excellent point, I imagine the neighbor does have more context than random people watching the video. I grew up in a diverse area - having a bit more melanin wouldn't make one jump to black - but nothing really excuses the neighbors drunken 911 call. "Having a bit more melanin wouldn't make one jump to black." I have a lot of respect for you, but you are really off base here. So it's not racist to scream about ghettos and gangs and call the police if the person isn't pigmented enough for you to consider them black? Spolier alert: THAT IS A CLASSIST, BIGOTED, SHITTY THING TO SAY TO ANYONE. But in this case, it was said to a woman who was dropping off her children who are, if not black enough, certainly a lot more pigmented than the drunk you are working so hard to defend. What the hell - I didn't say any of that. Nor did I imply it. I'm saying that some of the disconnect may be that people watching the video didn't see a black person. That in no way shape or form is justifying anything the idiot in the video did or did not do - in no universe does calling 911 make any sense and if my post was in any way being perceived as justifying HER behavior - I apologize - that is NOT my intention. I was attempted to explain why someone only watching the video may wonder why the leap to racism = trollie pointed out, the individual in the video surely knew her neighbor so those viewing the video and didn't identify the individuals in the video as black and think the woman isn't racist. That DOESN'T mean I'm saying they're not pigmented enough to be black - I was trying to explain why the impartial viewer might not have perceived the racism as they were NOT the crazy neighbor who actually knew her neighbor was black |
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Post by SockMonkey on Jul 21, 2019 22:58:31 GMT
Sigh... Sometimes it's just not appropriate to play Devil's Advocate. This is one of those times. Clearly, me have not come as far as we think we have and racism needs to be called out when we see it. These days the devil certainly has enough advocates. |
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Post by SockMonkey on Jul 21, 2019 23:18:43 GMT
First of all, y'all need to stop saying Anglo-Saxon. Don't say European American. If we're talking about race, say white people. That's what we are.
Secondly, if you are twisting yourself into a pretzel to try and figure out a way for this white woman to not be racist, you should consider that we are racialized beings who have been socialized in a country that has largely been controlled by white people. Consider how you have been socialized. Pause and reflect.
If you cannot see that a woman with mixed race children is being confronted without cause by a white woman and being told to "go back to the ghetto," then falsely accused of "gang activity," you should pause and reflect.
If you cannot understand that using words like "ghetto" or "gang activity" when describing people of color is racist, you should pause and reflect.
If you cannot see that there is a power differential between a white woman calling the police on a person of color and their family, you should pause and reflect.
If you work for a school district and cannot understand these things, you should REALLY pause and reflect. I have an entire reading list for you. I'll start a new thread.
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kibblesandbits
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by kibblesandbits on Jul 21, 2019 23:20:30 GMT
From DiAngelo’s ”White Fragility” Perpetual reminder. Thank you for reminding me of that. I'm trying to point out a regional, cultural microcosm but neglected to see the bigger whole. I have to say, though, that no where is anyone defending the woman. Her behavior was horrible. No need to start skewering Darcy Collins for contributing to the conversation and trying to shed some understanding. |
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kibblesandbits
Pearl Clutcher
At the corner of Awesome and Bombdiggity
Posts: 3,305
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Post by kibblesandbits on Jul 21, 2019 23:22:35 GMT
First of all, y'all need to stop saying Anglo-Saxon. Don't say European American. If we're talking about race, say white people. That's what we are. Secondly, if you are twisting yourself into a pretzel to try and figure out a way for this white woman to not be racist, you should consider that we are racialized beings who have been socialized in a country that has largely been controlled by white people. Consider how you have been socialized. Pause and reflect. If you cannot see that a woman with mixed race children is being confronted without cause by a white woman and being told to "go back to the ghetto," then falsely accused of "gang activity," you should pause and reflect. If you cannot understand that using words like "ghetto" or "gang activity" when describing people of color is racist, you should pause and reflect. If you cannot see that there is a power differential between a white woman calling the police on a person of color and their family, you should pause and reflect. If you work for a school district and cannot understand these things, you should REALLY pause and reflect. I have an entire reading list for you. I'll start a new thread. Jesus, Mary and Joseph. In the video, there was NO PERSON OF COLOR. Why is no one understanding this? |
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Post by myshelly on Jul 21, 2019 23:25:40 GMT
First of all, y'all need to stop saying Anglo-Saxon. Don't say European American. If we're talking about race, say white people. That's what we are. Secondly, if you are twisting yourself into a pretzel to try and figure out a way for this white woman to not be racist, you should consider that we are racialized beings who have been socialized in a country that has largely been controlled by white people. Consider how you have been socialized. Pause and reflect. If you cannot see that a woman with mixed race children is being confronted without cause by a white woman and being told to "go back to the ghetto," then falsely accused of "gang activity," you should pause and reflect. If you cannot understand that using words like "ghetto" or "gang activity" when describing people of color is racist, you should pause and reflect. If you cannot see that there is a power differential between a white woman calling the police on a person of color and their family, you should pause and reflect. If you work for a school district and cannot understand these things, you should REALLY pause and reflect. I have an entire reading list for you. I'll start a new thread. Jesus, Mary and Joseph. In the video, there was NO PERSON OF COLOR. Why is no one understanding this? Why does it matter if there is a POC in the video? There was a POC there in real life and the woman who was screaming was screaming about the POC. |
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Post by SockMonkey on Jul 21, 2019 23:29:29 GMT
From DiAngelo’s ”White Fragility” Perpetual reminder. Thank you for reminding me of that. I'm trying to point out a regional, cultural microcosm but neglected to see the bigger whole. I have to say, though, that no where is anyone defending the woman. Her behavior was horrible. No need to start skewering Darcy Collins for contributing to the conversation and trying to shed some understanding. Darcy neglected to listen to the woman telling the story. The woman (Patricia Elena) clearly says the woman is acting racist in the video. When white people are faced with a situation involving race and refuse to acknowledge that or make excuses, it is white fragility in action. Often, class will be substituted instead of race, deflecting that the issue is, truly, about race. The woman IN the video clearly experienced this as racism. To try to explain it away with the white woman's drunken state, or that she might be referring to class instead of race, is making excuses for racist behavior. As white people, we can take that note and reflect, or we can dig in. I know which I'd choose. |
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moodyblue
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,247
Location: Western Illinois
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Jun 26, 2014 21:07:23 GMT
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Post by moodyblue on Jul 21, 2019 23:31:31 GMT
First of all, y'all need to stop saying Anglo-Saxon. Don't say European American. If we're talking about race, say white people. That's what we are. Secondly, if you are twisting yourself into a pretzel to try and figure out a way for this white woman to not be racist, you should consider that we are racialized beings who have been socialized in a country that has largely been controlled by white people. Consider how you have been socialized. Pause and reflect. If you cannot see that a woman with mixed race children is being confronted without cause by a white woman and being told to "go back to the ghetto," then falsely accused of "gang activity," you should pause and reflect. If you cannot understand that using words like "ghetto" or "gang activity" when describing people of color is racist, you should pause and reflect. If you cannot see that there is a power differential between a white woman calling the police on a person of color and their family, you should pause and reflect. If you work for a school district and cannot understand these things, you should REALLY pause and reflect. I have an entire reading list for you. I'll start a new thread. Jesus, Mary and Joseph. In the video, there was NO PERSON OF COLOR. Why is no one understanding this? Watch the video again - at the beginning where the mom is talking you see one of the children. I would guess he is biracial based on his skin tone. |
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Post by SockMonkey on Jul 21, 2019 23:31:49 GMT
First of all, y'all need to stop saying Anglo-Saxon. Don't say European American. If we're talking about race, say white people. That's what we are. Secondly, if you are twisting yourself into a pretzel to try and figure out a way for this white woman to not be racist, you should consider that we are racialized beings who have been socialized in a country that has largely been controlled by white people. Consider how you have been socialized. Pause and reflect. If you cannot see that a woman with mixed race children is being confronted without cause by a white woman and being told to "go back to the ghetto," then falsely accused of "gang activity," you should pause and reflect. If you cannot understand that using words like "ghetto" or "gang activity" when describing people of color is racist, you should pause and reflect. If you cannot see that there is a power differential between a white woman calling the police on a person of color and their family, you should pause and reflect. If you work for a school district and cannot understand these things, you should REALLY pause and reflect. I have an entire reading list for you. I'll start a new thread. Jesus, Mary and Joseph. In the video, there was NO PERSON OF COLOR. Why is no one understanding this? don't see a person of color. However, Patricia Elena might be a Latinx woman. Her children might be biracial. CLEARLY Patricia Elena, the woman who yells to the white woman that she's being racist and who has been in that neighborhood and knows the area, is experiencing a racial incident. Why don't you believe her? |
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Jul 21, 2019 23:35:02 GMT
First of all, y'all need to stop saying Anglo-Saxon. Don't say European American. If we're talking about race, say white people. That's what we are. Secondly, if you are twisting yourself into a pretzel to try and figure out a way for this white woman to not be racist, you should consider that we are racialized beings who have been socialized in a country that has largely been controlled by white people. Consider how you have been socialized. Pause and reflect. If you cannot see that a woman with mixed race children is being confronted without cause by a white woman and being told to "go back to the ghetto," then falsely accused of "gang activity," you should pause and reflect. If you cannot understand that using words like "ghetto" or "gang activity" when describing people of color is racist, you should pause and reflect. If you cannot see that there is a power differential between a white woman calling the police on a person of color and their family, you should pause and reflect. If you work for a school district and cannot understand these things, you should REALLY pause and reflect. I have an entire reading list for you. I'll start a new thread. Jesus, Mary and Joseph. In the video, there was NO PERSON OF COLOR. Why is no one understanding this? Try this—- Close your eyes and hear only the woman’s words... “Go back to the ghetto” “Gang activity” Now tell us that she isn’t being racist/xenophobic. |
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Post by mustlovecats on Jul 21, 2019 23:38:37 GMT
First of all, y'all need to stop saying Anglo-Saxon. Don't say European American. If we're talking about race, say white people. That's what we are. Secondly, if you are twisting yourself into a pretzel to try and figure out a way for this white woman to not be racist, you should consider that we are racialized beings who have been socialized in a country that has largely been controlled by white people. Consider how you have been socialized. Pause and reflect. If you cannot see that a woman with mixed race children is being confronted without cause by a white woman and being told to "go back to the ghetto," then falsely accused of "gang activity," you should pause and reflect. If you cannot understand that using words like "ghetto" or "gang activity" when describing people of color is racist, you should pause and reflect. If you cannot see that there is a power differential between a white woman calling the police on a person of color and their family, you should pause and reflect. If you work for a school district and cannot understand these things, you should REALLY pause and reflect. I have an entire reading list for you. I'll start a new thread. Jesus, Mary and Joseph. In the video, there was NO PERSON OF COLOR. Why is no one understanding this? Because there were people of color involved in this incident, you just didn’t see them. |
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Post by busy on Jul 21, 2019 23:39:11 GMT
Jesus, Mary and Joseph. In the video, there was NO PERSON OF COLOR. Why is no one understanding this? don't see a person of color. However, Patricia Elena might be a Latinx woman. Her children might be biracial. CLEARLY Patricia Elena, the woman who yells to the white woman that she's being racist and who has been in that neighborhood and knows the area, is experiencing a racial incident. Why don't you believe her? Because it’s the job of white women on the internet to determine whether or not something was racist, obviously. We can’t trust the woman who actually experienced it, silly goose. *She* said it was bigoted but what the hell does she know? |
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Post by SockMonkey on Jul 21, 2019 23:41:06 GMT
You don't see a person of color. However, Patricia Elena might be a Latinx woman. Her children might be biracial. CLEARLY Patricia Elena, the woman who yells to the white woman that she's being racist and who has been in that neighborhood and knows the area, is experiencing a racial incident. Why don't you believe her? Because it’s the job of white women on the internet to determine whether or not something was racist, obviously. We can’t trust the woman who actually experienced it, silly goose. *She* said it was bigoted but what the hell does she know? Actually, first she said it was racist. Later she commented on the woman's intolerance and bigotry. And it's white women on the Internet's job to determine if someone is or isn't a person of color, apparently. |
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Post by gizzy on Jul 22, 2019 0:09:24 GMT
How the heck wasn't she charged with making a false report? This makes me so angry.
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Post by Darcy Collins on Jul 22, 2019 0:09:54 GMT
Well the good news is I have 40+ years of experience in people assuming they know my racial/ethnic heritage. Knock yourself out on your thorough understanding as a white woman on others experiences. Life isn't nearly as cut and dried as you'd like to believe - but read a few more books to make you think you understand.
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