wellway
Prolific Pea
Posts: 9,022
Jun 25, 2014 20:50:09 GMT
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Post by wellway on Oct 5, 2019 8:36:09 GMT
I'm sorry you are being treated badly.
With you working a long drive from your home and your children going to school in a different neighbourhood is there any advantage to considering a move which works better for you as a family? I'm not sure living so close to your mum is the benefit it should be.
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uksue
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,530
Location: London
Jun 25, 2014 22:33:20 GMT
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Post by uksue on Oct 5, 2019 10:27:10 GMT
What if she decides she’s not looking after the children anymore? You will have no choice then . I would start making plans just in case. Personally I would be doing that anyway, as my kids are too precious to be left with someone I feel could emotionally damage them.
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Post by gar on Oct 5, 2019 10:28:35 GMT
Personally I would be doing that anyway, as my kids are too precious to be left with someone I feel could emotionally damage them. I'm sure Ashley feels exactly the same but cannot see any alternatives.
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uksue
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,530
Location: London
Jun 25, 2014 22:33:20 GMT
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Post by uksue on Oct 5, 2019 10:34:32 GMT
Personally I would be doing that anyway, as my kids are too precious to be left with someone I feel could emotionally damage them. I'm sure Ashley feels exactly the same but cannot see any alternatives. What I’m saying is when she has no choice she will HAVE to find an alternative . I’ve been there- you just have to make sacrifices and different choices. Looking back I wish I hadn’t waited until I was forced to, iykwim. I don’t know where your father is in all of this Ashley .
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 6, 2024 11:27:50 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2019 12:11:37 GMT
How old is your oldest now? Is she able to get the youngest two on their bus in the morning? My oldest is 18 and away at university. My next oldest is 15, but leaves for school around 7 and the little girls’ bus doesn’t come until 8:40. Two days a week I leave at 7:45, and two days a week I leave at 5:30 in the morning. I’m not home until 5:30 any day of the week. I am so sorry we live in a world where billionaires sit on billions while good working people don't have access to quality, affordable childcare in every neighborhood. "Children are our most important asset" say the "family values" folks. BS. Where are the resources!?!??!!? I'm so sorry for your hurt. At the very least, when this happens in front of your young kids. Try to stop it. And turn to the kids and acknowledge the behavior (both of yours) as not appropriate to talk about in their presence. Apologize to them. Turn back to your mom and say something like "Mom, this isn't appropriate to talk about in front of the kids." Don't engage further on it 'til the kids are not present.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 6, 2024 11:27:50 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2019 12:19:38 GMT
Some moms don’t know how to mom THIS! And some moms were forced to mom because society told them that's what you do. And we're all suffering the consequences of those moms (and dads) who had no business being parents but were bullied, guilted, cultured into it. I'm grateful that at least more and more people have a CHOICE as to whether to marry, parent, etc. There is not ONE SINGLE RIGHT PATH for everyone. I have hope we will see less of this in the future. I hope people who have that choice today will opt to make different choices than to be forced by culture into marriage or family and then make those marriages/families A MISERY for all involved.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 6, 2024 11:27:50 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2019 12:39:55 GMT
I'm so sorry she treats you this way, you don't deserve it. Some people just aren't cut out to be parents and for the children who wind up with them, it's almost a life long round of hurt and disappointment.
I think all you can do is find some way not to be around her and remind yourself often that you aren't who or what she thinks you are. You're a good person who's doing her best.
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scrappyesq
Pearl Clutcher
You have always been a part of the heist. You're only mad now because you don't like your cut.
Posts: 4,060
Jun 26, 2014 19:29:07 GMT
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Post by scrappyesq on Oct 5, 2019 12:44:37 GMT
I think this says a lot about what kind of person she is: I sent her a text which said “I would like you to please stop talking negatively about dad to me and sharing your plans to leave him. I find it incredibly stressful”. 2.5 hrs later she replied “it’s only 8 degrees out, I’ll have to turn on the heat soon”. I responded saying, “that is not a reply to my previous text”. And now nothing. I know a bunch of you will say that text isn’t the place to discuss this, but I know there is not an option to discuss it in person. I don’t even want to discuss it. I want her to say “ok”. But she’s not going to say OK. She’s enjoying tormenting you. I know you don’t think she’s a narc but this enjoying the torment is classic narc behavior. So was the book kerfuffle and the way she treats your dad. Have you thought of therapy for yourself? You sound so traumatized. Not at all an attack. It’s hard when things get to this point.
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Post by mikklynn on Oct 5, 2019 12:46:20 GMT
Hang in there. You'll have that full time job soon. Then you can make new plans for your kids.
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Post by jeremysgirl on Oct 5, 2019 13:05:35 GMT
Try the book I Hate You, Don't Leave Me. It's about having a relationship with someone with Borderline Personality Disorder. It sounds like this could be it. I am wondering what her reaction would be if you just cut her off completely. BPD suffers are always a victim and everyone else is always the villain.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 6, 2024 11:27:50 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2019 13:22:55 GMT
Your mom sounds like a classic narcissist and the key to successfully managing a relationship with that type of person is to not engage. I know that you can't totally disengage because of childcare issues, but when conversations start about your dad, your behavior, or anything else that you believe is negative, come up with a standard line that is non-emotional and hang up. My favorite is "I love you too much to argue about this, good-bye". Rinse, lather, repeat. That doesn't feed her needs and perpetuate the cycle. It is not admitting she's right or wrong, you're right or wrong, it's just a calm way to disengage.
Like another poster recommended, I would be seeking alternative child care arrangements as well. Do you really want that influence on your young girls?
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ashley
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,400
Jun 17, 2016 12:36:53 GMT
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Post by ashley on Oct 5, 2019 13:47:51 GMT
I think this says a lot about what kind of person she is: I sent her a text which said “I would like you to please stop talking negatively about dad to me and sharing your plans to leave him. I find it incredibly stressful”. 2.5 hrs later she replied “it’s only 8 degrees out, I’ll have to turn on the heat soon”. I responded saying, “that is not a reply to my previous text”. And now nothing. I know a bunch of you will say that text isn’t the place to discuss this, but I know there is not an option to discuss it in person. I don’t even want to discuss it. I want her to say “ok”. I’m really sorry she treats you like this. I don’t know, the few things you’ve written are very personality-disorder like. She may not be a narcissist, but she may have personality disorder traits. Manipulative, non-apologetic, blaming, passive aggressive, it’s always centered around her and how she feels, etc. Out of the FOG is another good site to see if you can identify her behavioral traits. FOG stands for fear, obligation, guilt. This does sound very much like her. She uses her approve/disapproval and withholds affection (not that she every says anything nice to me) to try to control my behaviour. I have dealt with this in therapy for a while. When my ex boyfriend and I went to a therapist together something I said made her recognize that some of my issues are attachment based, and rooted in fear of disapproval and being left.
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ashley
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,400
Jun 17, 2016 12:36:53 GMT
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Post by ashley on Oct 5, 2019 13:50:23 GMT
I'm sorry this happened. She's obviously a very bitter person who likely can't handle caring for your dad and/or your children without anger and hostility. Knowing this, I wouldn't try talking/rationalizing with her unless you a prepared for her to walk. Take this time to get a plan in place for your children. I don't know how old your girls are, but if they are old enough to get ready by themselves, there might be some high school student, stay-at-home mom or retired individual willing to escort them to the bus stop every morning for a small fee. The little girls are 8 and 6. They cannot get themselves ready in the morning. And my 15 year old is not of the personality or maturity level to assist in the mornings in any way -- she also usually leaves for school before they are even up.
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ashley
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,400
Jun 17, 2016 12:36:53 GMT
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Post by ashley on Oct 5, 2019 13:51:33 GMT
Please talk to the school; they should have resources in place to assist you. I'm also in Canada. Admittedly, I'm unsure if we are in the same province. Still.. it is worth a try. I'll check with the school but last spring and over the summer I received many messages about the daycares in the city and how quickly they fill up and how care needed to be arranged last year because there is a shortage of spaces.
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ashley
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,400
Jun 17, 2016 12:36:53 GMT
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Post by ashley on Oct 5, 2019 13:53:51 GMT
The problem with finding anyone in the morning to help with the bus is that there’s only about three families at the bus stop and none of them have kids the same age as mine — but not old enough to babysit or help or anything. My kids don’t attend the neighbourhood school. My kid is almost old enough to be home alone for a little while during the day but I still wouldn’t leave her by herself for any amount of time at night because she wouldn’t be comfortable with that. Even if their kids aren’t the same age as yours, they might still be willing to help out for the time being. Especially since things are likely to change in a few months once your situation changes and there is an anticipated end date. You might be surprised by how many people may be willing to pitch in to help someone in need, but you have to be willing to ask. If one of my neighbors with kids was in that situation, I would be more than willing to do what I could to help out especially if it was just for a few months. I wasn't thinking about kids not needing care at night, but these other bus stop kids are old enough they walk to the bus stop in the morning and likely can get themselves ready so I am very doubtful either of these two moms who I've never even met or seen before are going to want to get up at 5:30 to take care of my kids. I wouldn't even know how to contact them... follow their kids home? Meet random kids and say "hey, will your mom take care of my kids?" Lol.
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ashley
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,400
Jun 17, 2016 12:36:53 GMT
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Post by ashley on Oct 5, 2019 13:59:02 GMT
Your mom sounds like a classic narcissist and the key to successfully managing a relationship with that type of person is to not engage. I know that you can't totally disengage because of childcare issues, but when conversations start about your dad, your behavior, or anything else that you believe is negative, come up with a standard line that is non-emotional and hang up. My favorite is "I love you too much to argue about this, good-bye". Rinse, lather, repeat. That doesn't feed her needs and perpetuate the cycle. It is not admitting she's right or wrong, you're right or wrong, it's just a calm way to disengage. Like another poster recommended, I would be seeking alternative child care arrangements as well. Do you really want that influence on your young girls? I've been disengaging with her for years. I don't initiate conversation, I rarely reply to anything she says. I can't, because nothing I ever say is correct. She is also extremely repetitive and will tell the same stories over and over again, and even when I try to sway the conversation in a more positive direction by actually agreeing with her and saying the same things she always says when telling any particular story, she will suddenly disagree with me and then turn everything around. Part of the problem is that she lives across the street from me, so these interactions always occur in person. I have been hesitant to use any sort of line like "why would you say something like that to me?" (like when she just volunteers up that my hair looks awful and I'm probably going to be bald some day), or whatever other lines my therapist has suggested, because it turns into what happened yesterday. Which is exactly what happened yesterday. She was being really difficult about telling me something about my house and even though I politely kept disagreeing with her she kept insisting she was right. I finally said, "Mom, it's my house, I know it better than you do" and she flipped out. Because I "wasn't giving her the respect she deserves". Yes, I was tired and I probably didn't sing when I said it, but I also know I wasn't a raging negative bitch who needed to be told that no one likes me.
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ashley
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,400
Jun 17, 2016 12:36:53 GMT
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Post by ashley on Oct 5, 2019 14:00:58 GMT
But she’s not going to say OK. She’s enjoying tormenting you. I know you don’t think she’s a narc but this enjoying the torment is classic narc behavior. So was the book kerfuffle and the way she treats your dad. Have you thought of therapy for yourself? You sound so traumatized. Not at all an attack. It’s hard when things get to this point. I've been attending therapy regularly for a couple years now.
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Nanner
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,987
Jun 25, 2014 23:13:23 GMT
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Post by Nanner on Oct 5, 2019 15:26:16 GMT
She sounds like a nightmare!
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PrettyInPeank
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,691
Jun 25, 2014 21:31:58 GMT
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Post by PrettyInPeank on Oct 5, 2019 15:42:09 GMT
I know you don’t think she’s a narc but this enjoying the torment is classic narc behavior. So was the book kerfuffle and the way she treats your dad. Have you thought of therapy for yourself? You sound so traumatized. Not at all an attack. It’s hard when things get to this point. I've been attending therapy regularly for a couple years now. You need to find a therapist who specializes in being the child of a parent with a personality disorder. Whether it’s Borderline Personality Disorder or Narcissistic Personality Disorder, etc, I would bet real money she has one. She has spent your whole life treating you like the scapegoat, not good enough, always wrong, not worthy, and her not giving real affection and unconditional love affects children to their core and who they become. This is not your fault. You are worth it, you deserve to stand up for yourself. I have seen the damage people like her cause, and I so sympathetic to what you’ve endured. I’ve encouraged friends to go here before because people with personality disorders like to make the victim think it’s all the victim’s fault, but if you read, the abusers all act the same dang way. It’s like they have a playbook. Reading similar stories may help you realize it’s not you! www.outofthefog.net/forum/index.php?board=4.0
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inkedup
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,837
Jun 26, 2014 5:00:26 GMT
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Post by inkedup on Oct 5, 2019 15:47:27 GMT
Ouch. I am sure this is not the first time your mom has treated you this way, but it stings nonetheless. I don't think we ever really stop seeking approval and comfort from our mothers, no matter how toxic or difficult the relationship. At least, I didn't.
It is much easier to say than to hear this, but please remember: your mom is coming from a place of anger and hurt. The things she is saying about you are cruel and untrue. It would hurt ANYONE to hear their mother say those things, but from what I have learned of you over the years, you seem like someone this would be especially devastating to. Make no mistake that your mother knows exactly how to cut you to the quick.
If you lived in SoCal, I'd probably annoy you with requests for a coffee and vinyl date where we talk about cannabis and embroidery and baking all the other cool things you enjoy. We'd talk about parenting and changing gears in life and being brave and about how hard it can be when one of the people you love most makes you feel worthless.
You are not worthless. Please try not to listen to your mother, or the mean voice in your head that repeats the ugly things she has always said to you. Lots of hugs to you.
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ashley
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,400
Jun 17, 2016 12:36:53 GMT
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Post by ashley on Oct 5, 2019 16:13:34 GMT
I've been attending therapy regularly for a couple years now. You need to find a therapist who specializes in being the child of a parent with a personality disorder. Whether it’s Borderline Personality Disorder or Narcissistic Personality Disorder, etc, I would bet real money she has one. She has spent your whole life treating you like the scapegoat, not good enough, always wrong, not worthy, and her not giving real affection and unconditional love affects children to their core and who they become. This is not your fault. You are worth it, you deserve to stand up for yourself. I have seen the damage people like her cause, and I so sympathetic to what you’ve endured. I’ve encouraged friends to go here before because people with personality disorders like to make the victim think it’s all the victim’s fault, but if you read, the abusers all act the same dang way. It’s like they have a playbook. Reading similar stories may help you realize it’s not you! www.outofthefog.net/forum/index.php?board=4.0Thank you. I looked at the message board and I see some trends that I recognize from my own life. My therapist does specialize in family issues, but perhaps that is not specific enough.
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ashley
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,400
Jun 17, 2016 12:36:53 GMT
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Post by ashley on Oct 5, 2019 17:11:06 GMT
Ouch. I am sure this is not the first time your mom has treated you this way, but it stings nonetheless. I don't think we ever really stop seeking approval and comfort from our mothers, no matter how toxic or difficult the relationship. At least, I didn't. It is much easier to say than to hear this, but please remember: your mom is coming from a place of anger and hurt. The things she is saying about you are cruel and untrue. It would hurt ANYONE to hear their mother say those things, but from what I have learned of you over the years, you seem like someone this would be especially devastating to. Make no mistake that your mother knows exactly how to cut you to the quick. If you lived in SoCal, I'd probably annoy you with requests for a coffee and vinyl date where we talk about cannabis and embroidery and baking all the other cool things you enjoy. We'd talk about parenting and changing gears in life and being brave and about how hard it can be when one of the people you love most makes you feel worthless. You are not worthless. Please try not to listen to your mother, or the mean voice in your head that repeats the ugly things she has always said to you. Lots of hugs to you. Thank you very much. Something you said here made me realize how very targeted and manipulative her comments are. I will be ok. I'm looking into ways to need her less until I can do this on my own completely. Not much longer, I believe. And I will work on some ways to deal with her better, if that means finding a different therapist for a bit. I kinda am at the point where I am so over her behaviour and way she treats me that I just want to move on with my life. I've felt this way for a while, but the comments and feedback here have made me realize how very over it I truly am.
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Post by auntkelly on Oct 5, 2019 17:46:40 GMT
Your mother's behavior sounds very similar to the way a now deceased relative used to treat me.. I could never please her and when I tried to talk to her about it, it was like talking to a brick wall. She didn't care at all that she had hurt my feelings and never once genuinely said "I'm sorry." She would say things like "you are just so sensitive" or "well I just won't open my mouth ever again."
However, I didn't want to write her out of my life, for many reasons, including the fact that she often took care of my kids. She loved my kids dearly and I honestly believe she wouldn't have hurt them for the world. I was pretty much the sole target of her passive aggressive behavior.
I knew in my heart that she really did love me and she honestly would have done anything for me, but she said very cruel things to me at times I just learned to live with her behavior and constantly reminded myself that she was never going to change. I just tried not to take her criticism to heart.
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Post by stampbooker on Oct 5, 2019 17:57:46 GMT
About how negative and rude she is and instead she snapped and spent ten minutes berating me about how no one likes me and I’m rude to everyone constantly and bringing up anecdotes from years ago to demonstrate how awful I am, and how she can’t understand why I let her look after my children and maybe if she’s so awful I can find someone else. Thanks, mom. Sitting in the bathtub crying. I'm sorry Ashley! I've been in similar situations with my mom many times, so I know how you feel. Sometimes I just have to take some time off from her. It took me about 40 years to learn not to take her criticism personally knowing that is just how she is.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 6, 2024 11:27:50 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2019 18:30:58 GMT
I'm so very sorry.
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Post by bigbundt on Oct 5, 2019 22:39:24 GMT
My mom is quite similar and the best response I can give to a hurtful statement from her is, "OK" and then change the subject or leave. "Your hair is a mess." "OK. I need to start dinner, talk to you later." "I guess you don't want my books." "OK. This weather is insane, ins't it?" And if she circles back around just go, "OK" Drives my mom NUTS because she is used to getting a rise out of me and I took that power away from her. I'm sorry your mom is a pain. I had to mourn the mom I would never have before I could accept the mom I actually have. And put boundaries in place and one of them is to do everything possible to never have to rely on her for anything ever again. You are working on that and if it is possible after Christmas, it is only a few months away.
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sassyangel
Drama Llama
Posts: 7,456
Jun 26, 2014 23:58:32 GMT
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Post by sassyangel on Oct 5, 2019 23:30:13 GMT
My mom was pretty toxic, so I can imagine a little of what you are experiencing. I’m sorry for that — I always wished I had the kind of friendly relationship with my mom that some of my friends had with theirs. You may have no desire to discuss this further, but if you are going to continue to avail yourself of her assistance, you may have to swallow your pride and find a way you both can reach an understanding. It sounds like you each may have some similarities in personality that are getting in the way of reaching an accord of some kind. Maybe you need a third party to mediate a discussion. She had made it very clear that the only understanding to be reached is for me to agree with her all the time, and in a way she deems respectful. While I don’t know the entire dynamics of your relationship with your mom, this screams narcissistic mom to me. I’m so sorry, if that’s the case, they are truly toxic people. Sometimes cutting them off (or as much you can) is the best way to handle them. It’s one of those cases, where it’s truly not you, it’s them. *hugs*
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Post by mlynn on Oct 6, 2019 6:15:24 GMT
I had a friend whose mother would say hurtful things. She eventually handled it by agreeing with her mom and sympathizing with her for having to endure the situation. She would even expand on the topic. Her mother was so nonplussed that she altered her behavior.
Is there a community college in your area? Perhaps there is a student who could come and help with the children in the morning. Or perhaps you could make a public request through your church.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 6, 2024 11:27:50 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2019 7:56:30 GMT
My mom is quite similar and the best response I can give to a hurtful statement from her is, "OK" and then change the subject or leave. "Your hair is a mess." "OK. I need to start dinner, talk to you later." "I guess you don't want my books." "OK. This weather is insane, ins't it?" And if she circles back around just go, "OK" Drives my mom NUTS because she is used to getting a rise out of me and I took that power away from her. I'm sorry your mom is a pain. I had to mourn the mom I would never have before I could accept the mom I actually have. And put boundaries in place and one of them is to do everything possible to never have to rely on her for anything ever again. You are working on that and if it is possible after Christmas, it is only a few months away. Like so many of you, I too had a very verbally abusive mother. The abuse put me in some dark places, a few times had me considering taking my own life...the first time was at age 11! It just sucks balls that so many of us have had to endure that. I have had years and years of therapy to deal with the junk in my head, but an epiphany occurred when I was attending a group therapy for "loved ones lost from cancer". I had not spoke to my mother in over a year because she came to town after my father's funeral and showed her ASS! I mean she went for the jugular when I was at my lowest point. I cut off ALL contact with her. DH was working overseas at the time and I was alone with our 8 month old DS. So it was Thanksgiving and my mother was coming into town that night and I was telling the group how anxious and sick I felt at having to see her. The therapist straight out asked me what I wanted from her. I told her that some compassion would be a good start. She looked at me and said..."You are wanting things from your mother that she simply does not have to give." She explained to me that it was not something personal...but that my mother never had that to give and never would. To understand, my mother grew up in an abusive home, in which her father was a violent alcoholic that beat my grandmother and his children and we are pretty sure that he did inappropriate things to my mother. So I am sure she developed certain coping skills that manifested in nasty ways. I am telling you it was a "light bulb" moment for me. I swear to you that from that moment on, something changed. I no longer felt the need to engage with her. And I began to do much of what bigbundt said. I knew that no matter what I would say to her, a resolution was most impossible because what I really needed to heal was not something she was capable of giving. That was well over 10 years ago. We have had a tangle or two since then, but never has it been the emotional napalm that it used to be. Granted, we now live overseas. I may FaceTime with her two to three times a year. We just don't have contact. While she has suggested a time or two that my kids could stay with her during the summer, I politely tell her maybe and think NO WAY IN HELL in my mind. I swear to you, when there is a disengagement....you take your power back and the dynamic changes. It is hard to do at first, but I cannot stress to you enough to try what bundt suggested. Just walk away. Spit at her later when you are at home, but smile and walk away. Hugs to you.
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Post by LavenderLayoutLady on Oct 6, 2019 12:44:38 GMT
(((hugs)))
I was thinking, is there a college anywhere near? Maybe advertise free room for a young lady to move in and be available to get the kids off to school in the morning?
You are strong and capable, and lovely and beautiful, and a very good mother.
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