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Post by onelasttime on Sept 1, 2021 1:31:33 GMT
I’m watching Rachel and she is talking about an abortion law Texas passed a while back. That depends on what the Supreme Court could overturn Roe v Wade.
The law says no abortions after 6 weeks. But there is a twist. It’s not the state that will enforce it but allows any third party to sue anyone involved in helping the woman get the abortion., anyone who counseled her, or even anyone she talked to about it.
From the article that better explains it.
“In a few months, the Supreme Court will hear a case that gives the conservative justices an opportunity to overrule Roe v. Wade, allowing states to ban abortion at early stages of pregnancy. But Texas can’t wait that long. In May, the state’s Republican lawmakers passed a law known as SB 8 that outlaws abortion after six weeks. But SB 8 is unique: It empowers private citizens, not government officials, to enforce it. The measure allows any random stranger to bring a lawsuit in state court against any individual who “aids or abets” an abortion in Texas after six weeks. Anyone in the country may file such a suit against abortion “abettors” in any state court within Texas. If the plaintiff wins, they collect a minimum of $10,000 plus attorneys’ fees. And if they win a case against an abortion provider, the court must shut down that clinic. If the provider somehow prevails, they collect nothing, not even attorneys’ fees.
Texas Republicans devised this convoluted system in order to prevent federal courts from blocking the law—and so far, they’ve succeeded: On Friday, the 5th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals abruptly canceled a trial judge’s hearing on SB 8’s constitutionality, effectively allowing the law to take effect in two days, on Sept. 1. This aggressive intervention forced abortion providers to do what seems almost unthinkable: Ask the U.S. Supreme Court—the same court that agreed to hear a direct challenge to Roe v Wade only a few months back—for an injunction in an emergency filing on Monday. Their plea raises the inevitably bleak question: Will the conservative justices who control a 6–3 majority of the Supreme Court let Texas overturn Roe v. Wade before they have a chance to themselves?”
God I hate Texas right now.
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Post by Merge on Sept 1, 2021 1:36:18 GMT
Thanks. That’s helpful.
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Post by freecharlie on Sept 1, 2021 1:36:36 GMT
How would that not infringe on free speech? I can't imagine that would stand up in SCOTUS, but who knows.
Eta: I see that it is a PRIVATE citizen, but it is still the court (government) imposing the sentence.
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Post by aj2hall on Sept 1, 2021 2:15:15 GMT
That seems like a terrible idea. I'm not optimistic that the SC will uphold Roe v Wade, but I'm really worried about all of these restrictive laws. NH passed a law this spring requiring a woman to have an ultrasound. Requiring women to have an unnecessary perhaps invasive (internal ultrasounds) procedure is just insulting. I know the southern states banning abortions after heartbeats, 6 weeks etc are more restrictive but they're all terrible.
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Deleted
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May 17, 2024 23:39:22 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2021 3:56:05 GMT
This is what the voting majority of Texans voted for (or didn't bother to vote against).
As the saying goes, "Elections have consequences."
And for the "let's go back to the Middle Ages" crew, this is time to celebrate!
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Post by onelasttime on Sept 1, 2021 5:05:44 GMT
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Post by nlwilkins on Sept 1, 2021 7:35:13 GMT
How can one know if the fetus is six weeks old or older? You have to know exactly when the baby was conceived to know the age of a fetus. How can the mother even know for sure, especially when she is in a solid relationship with multiple times a week intimacies. For a stranger to know would really be impossible. Unless the stranger had detailed knowledge no stranger should have.
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Post by dewryce on Sept 1, 2021 7:53:21 GMT
How can one know if the fetus is six weeks old or older? You have to know exactly when the baby was conceived to know the age of a fetus. How can the mother even know for sure, especially when she is in a solid relationship with multiple times a week intimacies. For a stranger to know would really be impossible. Unless the stranger had detailed knowledge no stranger should have. Ultrasound, for proof. Otherwise, “they” don’t care when the woman knows. Just that it is as difficult and restrictive as possible to obtain. I agree about the stranger knowing, I suspect this is one of those things that where the claims will be laid after the procedure. Are women going to be forced to give up private medical information to prove that the procedure complied with the timeframe demanded by the bullshit law? |
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Post by hookturnian on Sept 1, 2021 8:16:14 GMT
Some Redditors are already planning to overwhelm the reporting line with fake reports on fake people to waste investigators time. Apparently quite a few are planning to report a certain high ranked individual who made a very short, suspicious trip overseas with his wife(!) and 2 teenaged daughters (!!)during a disaster, when he should have been working. They travelled so suddenly they even left the family dog behind without adequate care. The women remained behind (!) after his return. Maybe someone (is it the wife? or one of the daughters?) was not well enough to travel after an abortion. 🤣🤣🤣
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Post by dewryce on Sept 1, 2021 8:19:09 GMT
Cruz (and his wife) can fuck the fuck right off as far as I’m concerned, but they need to leave his kids out of this. Maybe someone can put some bots to good use to help overwhelm the tip line.
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Post by mollycoddle on Sept 1, 2021 10:37:30 GMT
Women who can will go elsewhere to get an abortion, or else have an illegal abortion. I suspect that illegal abortions, which happened frequently before Roe, will make a big comeback. I’m not sure how this is a good thing. You will not stop women who are determined to get an abortion. You will just make it more dangerous. This was from a series of articles written in 1966. Women found abortion “helpers” or in some cases, they tried to abort the fetus themselves. www.washingtonpost.com/history/2019/06/09/when-abortion-was-illegal-post-series-revealed-how-women-got-them-anyway/ |
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Post by Merge on Sept 1, 2021 10:42:13 GMT
A post from a local activist friend, including ways to help for those who aren’t determined to be “dismissive blue state liberals.”   And yes, the law has been temporarily blocked by an Austin judge. For now. |
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Post by hookturnian on Sept 1, 2021 11:13:46 GMT
Gilead is ever closer.
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Post by agengr2004 on Sept 1, 2021 12:04:18 GMT
I also want to mention that a large percentage of voters who supported this also are screaming about "my body, my choice" when it comes to vaccines and masks and also about "body autonomy".
Under his eye.
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Post by epeanymous on Sept 1, 2021 12:12:27 GMT
You will have a law like this in every red state, most likely, within months.
And yes, the six-week limit is designed to effectively end abortion.
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Deleted
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May 17, 2024 23:39:22 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2021 13:19:59 GMT
"Some abortion providers in Texas say they will be forced to go beyond the guidelines and shut down nearly all of their services to avoid costly and potentially endless citizen-led litigation. Under the new law, they are not allowed to recoup their legal fees even if they successfully fend off a lawsuit."
I can hear the happy dances and laughter of the TX right-wingers from here. Lawsuits as weapons. A favored MO of the wealthy.
See John Oliver and SLAPP suits. Except in this case, the SLAPP suits can be brought by tens of thousands of little guys - to well and truly clog the system AND save the big guys from paying any legal bills at all.
Win-Win!!
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Post by withapea on Sept 1, 2021 14:01:24 GMT
All the gaslighting that we were being hysterical, it would never happen blah blah blah. I’m ill. I’m LIVID. All the forced birthers can eff all the way off. Better watch your miscarriages. Texas has been enabling the abuse of foster kids for years. They don’t care about kids or women. It is about control and power. I hate this state. I can’t believe my daughters have fewer rights than I did. How absolutely backwards. Y’all think this ends in TX you’re sorely mistaken.
Can we pause on the “TX gets what it deserves rhetoric”? - We don’t and it discounts the systemic barriers and the hard work of those that fight for progress.
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Post by Merge on Sept 1, 2021 14:42:44 GMT
All the gaslighting that we were being hysterical, it would never happen blah blah blah. I’m ill. I’m LIVID. All the forced birthers can eff all the way off. Better watch your miscarriages. Texas has been enabling the abuse of foster kids for years. They don’t care about kids or women. It is about control and power. I hate this state. I can’t believe my daughters have fewer rights than I did. How absolutely backwards. Y’all think this ends in TX you’re sorely mistaken. Can we pause on the “TX gets what it deserves rhetoric”? - We don’t and it discounts the systemic barriers and the hard work of those that fight for progress. This. And I might add that if we didn’t have a milquetoast moderate in the White House and leading the Senate, we likely could have passed voting rights legislation that could have helped us overturn this and prevent future assaults on women’s and human rights. Texas is not deep red. It is heavily gerrymandered and suppressed. End the filibuster and put down this nonsense now. At this point, Biden and Schumer are just sitting back and letting it happen. |
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casii
Drama Llama
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Post by casii on Sept 1, 2021 14:52:05 GMT
I don't hate TX but I feel pretty badly for its women and children. I have lots of family in TX and while I know most of them voted for Trump, I'm pretty sure some felt abortion was settled law.
There needs to be some intense leaning to get rid of the filibuster so we can get the John Lewis voting right act passed. There was a March for voting rights in DC on Saturday that was pretty pitiful small. If we can't protect our votes, we're up shit creek. No matter where we live.
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Post by pierogi on Sept 1, 2021 15:15:55 GMT
What a horrific situation. I’m so sorry, Texas. So many women will be hurt by this. It’s so strange to me how some people really long for the 19th century - it wasn’t an idyllic time.
There are Auntie networks forming up to aid women traveling out of state to terminate safely. They’re coming for your birth control next. I wouldn’t be surprised if the next step was enforced “modest” dress.
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Post by fiddlesticks on Sept 1, 2021 15:17:55 GMT
I’m just sick over this. It breaks my heart. This will not stop abortions. Those that can travel, will. And those that can’t, well….history shows what that looks like.
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Post by maryland on Sept 1, 2021 15:32:19 GMT
And yet many don't want mandatory vaccines, masks in schools,so way to protect the already born children.
So no abortions, but it's okay to have unvaccinated people, maskless people walking around infecting vaccinated pregnant women.
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Post by hop2 on Sept 1, 2021 15:54:13 GMT
Ok, question. ( not exactly hypothetical but past tense so hypothetical in terms of this discussion )
What if a person was pregnant, heard the heart beat in an ultrasound at approx 6 weeks. Then at 12 weeks the woman starts having problems. A new ultrasound is done, there is no heartbeat, the fetus is still 6 weeks in size hasn’t grown at all since 1st ultrasound, in fact might be slightly smaller but these are 2 different techs so maybe not. Dr ( actually 2drs ) recommends a D&C for the mother’s health since she’s been carrying ‘dead’ tissue for +/- 6 weeks.
Technically a D&C is an abortion. Technically it is after a heart beat ‘was’ heard.
What happens in a case like this?
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Post by pierogi on Sept 1, 2021 16:02:01 GMT
Ok, question. ( not exactly hypothetical but past tense so hypothetical in terms of this discussion ) What if a person was pregnant, heard the heart beat in an ultrasound at approx 6 weeks. Then at 12 weeks the woman starts having problems. A new ultrasound is done, there is no heartbeat, the fetus is still 6 weeks in size hasn’t grown at all since 1st ultrasound, in fact might be slightly smaller but these are 2 different techs so maybe not. Dr ( actually 2drs ) recommends a D&C for the mother’s health since she’s been carrying ‘dead’ tissue for +/- 6 weeks. Technically a D&C is an abortion. Technically it is after a heart beat ‘was’ heard. What happens in a case like this? If we use Ireland’s old anti-abortion laws as an example, the woman will just have to carry the necrotic tissue around in her body until she has a miscarriage. |
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janeliz
Drama Llama
I'm the Wiz and nobody beats me.
Posts: 5,633
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Post by janeliz on Sept 1, 2021 16:05:35 GMT
Infuriating. And I know that right now we have some very busy folks in South Carolina who are gleefully preparing to make this happen here.
I say this almost every time this subject comes up here, but I’ll never forget the many “both sides are bad” Peas on this board asserting (pre-2016) that “abortion is settled law” and it’s not something anyone should consider when voting.
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sueg
Prolific Pea
Posts: 8,050
Location: Munich
Apr 12, 2016 12:51:01 GMT
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Post by sueg on Sept 1, 2021 16:11:18 GMT
Ok, question. ( not exactly hypothetical but past tense so hypothetical in terms of this discussion ) What if a person was pregnant, heard the heart beat in an ultrasound at approx 6 weeks. Then at 12 weeks the woman starts having problems. A new ultrasound is done, there is no heartbeat, the fetus is still 6 weeks in size hasn’t grown at all since 1st ultrasound, in fact might be slightly smaller but these are 2 different techs so maybe not. Dr ( actually 2drs ) recommends a D&C for the mother’s health since she’s been carrying ‘dead’ tissue for +/- 6 weeks. Technically a D&C is an abortion. Technically it is after a heart beat ‘was’ heard. What happens in a case like this? When this happened to my sister (8 weeks, in Australia) and a friend of mine (12 weeks, in Germany), they both had D&Cs within a couple of days. To my mind, and to their doctors, there was no issue of it being an abortion, as the fetuses had no heartbeats, and so were no longer alive. As for your comment: technically a D&C is an abortion - not necessarily. Women have D&Cs for many reasons, not only the removal of a fetus. My D&C was not an abortion - I had heavy bleeding and an overgrowth of my uterine lining. |
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Post by mollycoddle on Sept 1, 2021 16:13:28 GMT
All the gaslighting that we were being hysterical, it would never happen blah blah blah. I’m ill. I’m LIVID. All the forced birthers can eff all the way off. Better watch your miscarriages. Texas has been enabling the abuse of foster kids for years. They don’t care about kids or women. It is about control and power. I hate this state. I can’t believe my daughters have fewer rights than I did. How absolutely backwards. Y’all think this ends in TX you’re sorely mistaken. Can we pause on the “TX gets what it deserves rhetoric”? - We don’t and it discounts the systemic barriers and the hard work of those that fight for progress. Yep. When I was a young woman, abortions were safe and legal. Now many of these kids will be put into foster care-that is, unless the pro-birth crowd steps up. Yeah, right. |
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Post by pierogi on Sept 1, 2021 16:28:45 GMT
Ok, question. ( not exactly hypothetical but past tense so hypothetical in terms of this discussion ) What if a person was pregnant, heard the heart beat in an ultrasound at approx 6 weeks. Then at 12 weeks the woman starts having problems. A new ultrasound is done, there is no heartbeat, the fetus is still 6 weeks in size hasn’t grown at all since 1st ultrasound, in fact might be slightly smaller but these are 2 different techs so maybe not. Dr ( actually 2drs ) recommends a D&C for the mother’s health since she’s been carrying ‘dead’ tissue for +/- 6 weeks. Technically a D&C is an abortion. Technically it is after a heart beat ‘was’ heard. What happens in a case like this? When this happened to my sister (8 weeks, in Australia) and a friend of mine (12 weeks, in Germany), they both had D&Cs within a couple of days. To my mind, and to their doctors, there was no issue of it being an abortion, as the fetuses had no heartbeats, and so were no longer alive. As for your comment: technically a D&C is an abortion - not necessarily. Women have D&Cs for many reasons, not only the removal of a fetus. My D&C was not an abortion - I had heavy bleeding and an overgrowth of my uterine lining. That will not happen in Texas. Those are modern countries with a comprehensive healthcare system, and an understanding of science. Even if Texas’s law states - as Ireland’s did - that a non viable or dead fetus is exempt from the abortion ban, the practice is very very different. Doctors in Ireland were terrified of investigation and losing their licenses, so you could literally be carrying a dead fetus and be refused an abortion. An abortion that under law you are entitled to. So women died, other women were permanently scarred and families were broken because of it. Which was the law’s purpose: to hurt women. It’s barbaric. |
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Deleted
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May 17, 2024 23:39:22 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2021 16:37:27 GMT
“abortion is settled law” and it’s not something anyone should consider when voting. Anyone who really thinks/thought that is beyond moronic in their thinking. They will push and push and push and push and never give up cuz their special book tells them so. They will chip away at it until they can destroy it completely. If that is ever not true, it won't be for decades yet. IT MATTERS. VOTING MATTERS. DONATIONS MATTER. ADVOCACY MATTERS. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2021 16:39:28 GMT
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