Deleted
Posts: 0
Jun 16, 2024 2:14:50 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2014 10:40:13 GMT
I couldn't quote just this one part so hopefully i did this correctly @i-95 "I agree with that statement, but the exact same thing could be said by the people who have been abused, assaulted, hurt or killed by a police officer. I can understand your being offended by folks lumping your DH in with some lowlife cop, but it's equally offensive to those who have seen the other side of abuse of power, to pretend it doesn't happen. " I had a very bad experience with the bad apples of the police when I was a child. It was one reason the reasons I actually blew my now husband off when I found out he was a cop. I wanted nothing to do with him because he was a cop. So I get that. I also haven't commented on anything in regards to how I feel about any of the police shootings recently...but I can assure you that I know all to well about dirty cops. I have told my DH that I feel not only do I have to worry about him getting hurt/killed but I have to worry about the bad apples of the dept as well. Sadly I don't think they would take a bullet for him like he would them. So dirty cops and criminals are all the same to me and they don't get my respect. I have had another LEOW tell me I should support the uniform regardless...I do...for the good ones. Not clowns (bad cops) wearing a badge. Just tonight DH had 5 domestics right in a row and 1 of the calls pulled a knife on him making a comment about he would get the same thing the NY cops got. This life is draining...and I just with others would know they aren't all bad. I just want my husband to come home safe. That's all. ETA- ugh guess I didn't quote this right...sorry No you summed up my thoughts. Every single call they go on is a real chance something will happen. The most recent was the officer in Florida. "The Tarpon Springs Police Department said officer Charles "Charlie K" Kondek was shot and killed Sunday while responding to a call regarding a noise complaint about 2 a.m. Investigators say the suspect, identified as 23-year-old Marco Antonio Parilla Jr., was banging on doors in the community about 25 miles northwest of Tampa, looking for a neighbor who he said "dimed him out" to police. When Parilla saw Kondek, he fired multiple rounds at the officer, striking him once above his bullet-proof vest". A NOISE COMPLAINT!!!! Every call has to be taken on alert, they don't mean it sarcastic when they say their head is always on a swivel. Everyone from every profession/career wants their spouse to come home, I just don't know if you all get the fear and dread we public servant spouses feel day in and day out. Not only are we dealing with public opinion, but low pay, forced overtime, politics, good ole boy system, threats & so much more...it is draining because when your spouse is a LEO we have to take ALOT for them to do their job. It affect everything in our lives, do you get suspicious when a person is behind you too long and you start making right turns to see if they follow you, had it happen before,do you tighten up in line because the person behinds you starts talking that he happy those cops got shot, yesterday with my youngest daughter, or have to listen to parents say sorry ....can't come over because you have weapons in the house? Try steeping out of a grocery store with your husband and kid and seeing your husbands face tighten as the person he arrested a couple of days ago starts toward us. Or try being in freakin Target and having a convicted felon approach your husband. Start yelling that he was at the call the other night when you arrested his kin and he is going to pay. Watch your husband have to take action to suede that person as quietly and with minimal distribution in the middle of TARGET. Interrupted my holiday shopping:) Or being at the school & having a parent walk up to a teacher and ask why a pig is at the event. To which I LOVE OUR SCHOOL, why shouldn't a law abiding citizen be here, as a convicted criminal is here and no one is questioning that? You all have to realize mostly everyone will remember what LEO they dealt with, but LEO deal with hundreds of thousands of people and cannot remember them all. They are always processing rooms, looking for exits, and always ready to take action to serve and protect those in their community. Can you think of many jobs that you are on for 24 hours , 365 days a year. Because if something happens and god forbid a LEO was there, not officially on duty, but did not step in they would be crucified. All we ask if to take a moment and try to put yourself in a LEO families shoes...
|
|
jayfab
Drama Llama
procastinating
Posts: 5,536
Jun 26, 2014 21:55:15 GMT
|
Post by jayfab on Dec 23, 2014 12:41:15 GMT
that is what she wanted/wants. The people who argue this are trying to say that the district attorney's office should have only presented evidence that made him look guilty. The prosecutor should be interested in pursuing the TRUTH. (and IMO, hearing both sides of the story vs. only listening to one and throwing out the other is not the way to find the truth)
But those that want Darren Wilson to rot in jail (or in the morgue) aren't really interested in truth either, IMO. They're not interested in justice. They want revenge and that's NOT the way our justice system works.
Perhaps McCullough knew he'd be the one responsible for putting on some sham of a trial, with a number of witnesses who lied, changed their story, and whose stories don't at all jive with the physical evidence in the case.
Do not speak for me. I have NEVER said I want Wilson to rot in jail or the morgue. I NEVER said I wanted only evidence that makes him look guilty. I do not remember anyone on this board ever saying that. I want the truth and I do not believe we got it. I DO NOT want revenge. I believe an independent prosecutor and grand jury should have been provided. That's it. You obviously can only hear your own words and nothing else. I have a lot of respect for leos and have many as friends BUT I can also hear the frustration of the citizens. Sorry you have such a closed mind.
|
|
Sarah*H
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,984
Jun 25, 2014 20:07:06 GMT
|
Post by Sarah*H on Dec 23, 2014 12:48:59 GMT
Since legal experts across the country have weighed in and said that the grand jury process was flawed in this case, I think your points are exaggerated for effect and unfair.
|
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
Jun 16, 2024 2:14:50 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2014 13:38:20 GMT
The prosecutor should be interested in pursuing the TRUTH. (and IMO, hearing both sides of the story vs. only listening to one and throwing out the other is not the way to find the truth)
But those that want Darren Wilson to rot in jail (or in the morgue) aren't really interested in truth either, IMO. They're not interested in justice. They want revenge and that's NOT the way our justice system works.
Perhaps McCullough knew he'd be the one responsible for putting on some sham of a trial, with a number of witnesses who lied, changed their story, and whose stories don't at all jive with the physical evidence in the case.
Do not speak for me. I have NEVER said I want Wilson to rot in jail or the morgue. I NEVER said I wanted only evidence that makes him look guilty. I do not remember anyone on this board ever saying that. I want the truth and I do not believe we got it. I DO NOT want revenge. I believe an independent prosecutor and grand jury should have been provided. That's it. You obviously can only hear your own words and nothing else. I have a lot of respect for leos and have many as friends BUT I can also hear the frustration of the citizens. Sorry you have such a closed mind. I was more speaking for those that chant "what do we want? Dead cops. When do we want it? Now."
|
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
Jun 16, 2024 2:14:50 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2014 13:40:16 GMT
Since legal experts across the country have weighed in and said that the grand jury process was flawed in this case, I think your points are exaggerated for effect and unfair. I've seen some say "flawed" and I've seen some use the word "unique". I still have the opinion that it's not wrong to have a prosecutor pursue the TRUTH not just the story to get them a conviction.
I'm okay with having a different opinion than "legal experts".
|
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
Jun 16, 2024 2:14:50 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2014 14:12:32 GMT
Grand juries are not comprised of people chosen by the prosecutor, so they are not "on the same side". And there seems to be a deep misunderstanding on this thread and in this country about the role of grand juries. Grand juries are not trials, so the "other side" is not presentedi in most cases. The grand jury is presented the evidence that the prosecutor has, to determine if there is enough evidence to take it to trial. They do not find defendants guilty or innocent. They only decide whether to indict or not. Period. In. Oth cases, the juries determined that there was not enough evidence of WRONG DOING to warrant a trial. The prosecutor did it have to take these cases to the grand juries...they could have declined to prosecute based upon the evidence outright. Imagine the outrage then, right? But they chose to go to the jury, and now they are accused of cherry picking evidence or suppressing testimonies. Damned if they do, damned if they don't.
The grand jury system has served free societies well for centuries - since long before the United States existed even. It is not perfect, but it is far from "deeply flawed". It is a check on government to protect people from unwarranted prosecutions based upon power hungry politicians or mob-mentality justice.
|
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
Jun 16, 2024 2:14:50 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2014 14:32:28 GMT
The stories shared by the wives of law enforcement on this thread are heart wrenching.
So I just have to say...
THANK YOU. The words seem inadequate, and I hope that your families have a wonderful Christmas.
|
|
|
Post by cannes on Dec 23, 2014 15:15:11 GMT
Cannes said: For goodness sake, I wasn't suggesting that there be a committee formed before an officer makes a decision. I wasn't assuming anything, I was ASKING a question...throwing something out to consider and discuss. The fact that the cop in that video shot and killed a 12 year old within 2 seconds of arriving at the location strongly suggests he had NOT been trained to assess and deal with a threat in an appropriate manner. I was commenting on this specific situation, throwing out some possibilities that the two officers didn't seem to consider....like not pulling up right next to the suspect....like if the officer(s) were not experienced, perhaps they might have assessed the situation, seen that there was nobody close by, maybe tried to talk to the suspect first....who knows, MAYBE if they had tried something different, the child wouldn't be dead. I realize not every situation allows for that kind of wait and see approach (as evidenced by the other video posted) What's the alternative? Hope the guy with the gun complies with the order to put it down? Otherwise you should shoot him? What if he doesn't put it down, but doesn't threaten the officer either...maybe just argues with him because he's drunk, angry, mentally unstable, whatever? Are officers trained to recognize mental illness? Or that the person may have a gun because he's suicidal? Or a child with a toy gun? I wouldn't want to have to make those decisions, but if we're going to let any Tom, Dick, or Harry run around with a gun because God knows, it's his 2nd Amendment right, then I can only see things getting worse for some LEOs, and worse for some citizens. I wasn't trying to be snarky in my response; I apologize if you thought I was. I was responding to the questions why the decision to use deadly force was left up to a beat cop. The additional questions here makes it much easier to give you more information.
To become a police officer, you don't simply fill out an application and get hired. The process is much, much more extensive than that. Before being invited to attend the academy, applicants are subjected to a thorough background check, a polygraph test, a physical examination (by a licensed physician), a physical agility test, a complete psychological evaluation (by a licensed psychologist) and a drug test. Those that don't pass muster at any point are released. At any point during the academy that someone isn't up to par, they are released. Once they have graduated from the academy, they are assigned to a Field Training Officer (FTO) for a period of time (usually around a year). During this probationary period, if they aren't up to department standards, they are released from duty. Bottom line is that it's pretty difficult to become a police officer. Departments do their very best to ensure that the individuals who can handle the job and the high stress, volatile situations are the ones that they put on the street. It's not a foolproof process, however. Overall, though, you've got quality people wearing the badge.
Yes, officers are trained to recognize mental illness and go through training on how to handle people who are suicidal. That type of training usually occurs in the academy and they also go through additional training over the course of their careers. (Beat cops are more likely to have that kind of training on a regular basis. Those who are assigned to specialty details like homicide, vehicular crimes, etc. will usually have those types of training less often). At the very least, most departments require a "module" on a yearly basis. Here, it's a week long and includes classes like dealing with mentally ill people, suicidal people, hostage situations, dealing with the public, cultural sensitivity, identifying types of substance abuse, firearms training and more. Most departments provide their officers with substantial training on an ongoing basis - both mandatory and voluntary. Even so, we are still dealing with humans. You can provide them with the best tools and training possible, and they'll still make mistakes. Sometimes, they use too much force and a civilian dies. Sometimes, they don't use enough force and a police officer dies.
The threat to the officers and to the civilians that are in the area is what the officers are trained to assess and respond to. That's going to change with each and every situation. Officers are equipped with non-lethal tools, such as tasers and pepper spray. Those tools can, and are, used in a great many situations. Even those "non-lethal" tools can be lethal, though. But, and this is a big but, if someone is waving a gun around and pointing it at people, the police aren't going to go to their taser first. Ever heard the saying "you don't take a knife to a gunfight"? Same concept. They are trained to assess the situation and respond with the appropriate use of force. The majority of the time, the use of force is appropriate. However, there are times that it is not. I think the answer to how to prevent the times where the use of force is too much is multi-faceted and is going to lie not only with the police department, but also within the community. There is no easy answer.
That said, I am in favor of body cameras for police officers. I think the cameras will help ensure that everyone (police and civilian alike) are on their best behavior. When DH was uniformed, he carried a voice recorder. Reason? People who had just been issued a ticket by him would call his supervisor to lodge a complaint against him in the hopes that the supervisor would reverse the ticket. The vast majority of the callers would say that he'd called them a racial slur during the traffic stop. In this state, only one person has to be aware that a recording is happening. So those that had been stopped were completely unaware that the entire stop had been recorded. Because of the voice recordings, each and every one of those callers were caught in the disgusting lie. Because people look at police officers in a negative light, they think that they can get away with more because all they'll have to do is cry "police brutality". If they know their actions are being recorded, I think that generally, they will change their behavior. Obviously, the hardened criminal probably won't, but I do think it'll make a difference. And for the officers? I think it will help protect those that do their job and do it well and will help hang those that aren't worthy of wearing the badge.
"What do we want? Dead cops! When do we want it? Now!" Simply disgusting and it makes me so incredibly scared for our society that thousands of people would take to the streets chanting this. I simply do not have the words to express the kind of pain and fear that this puts into the hearts of those who have a family member who puts on a badge each day that they go to work. For the most part, these are men and women who risk their lives each day because they love their communities and want to make them a better place to live for not only their children, but the children of others. On a good day, being the wife of a police officer is incredibly hard. On days where people are screaming in the streets for dead cops? Unimaginable.
|
|
|
Post by PEArfect on Dec 23, 2014 15:22:24 GMT
|
|
|
Post by jonda1974 on Dec 23, 2014 15:31:54 GMT
the people who lied and won't be prosecuted are the ones saying Brown had his hands up or was walking away. I would think that would give them more credibility that they let people whose accounts were different to testify, botherwise those made up and those whose stories ended up being backed up by forensics. Nope, the one who lied backed up officer Wilson and was repeatedly quoted on right wing radio. Witness 40 complete liar
Some of the text: In this interrogation, the FBI proved that McElroy, whose testimony would eventually mirror Wilson's better than any other witness, was never actually at the scene of the shooting and had concocted an elaborate and preposterous hoax of a narrative on why she was there, how she drove in, how she mysteriously drove off the scene, how she saw the entire incident from close range, how nobody could confirm her being there, how she had a deep and ugly racist history, and so much more. By the time she finished her interview with the FBI, McElroy had perjured herself not one or two times, but well over 100 times. Her story, insulting, demeaning, and fundamentally outrageous was completely debunked by the FBI over and over again, yet Bob McCulloch, fully aware of this, called her not once, but twice as a witness. and To this end, she was wildly successful and her testimony has now been quoted by Sean Hannity and Fox News hundreds of times as a form of evidence that Mike Brown "charged at Darren Wilson like a football player." However, the physical evidence doesn't lie, and the physical evidence matched Wilson's testimony. Also Witness 40 was not the only one to lie. It was reported right after the Grand Jury came back and documents were released that several witnesses were discovered to have lied in Michael Brown's favor.
|
|
jayfab
Drama Llama
procastinating
Posts: 5,536
Jun 26, 2014 21:55:15 GMT
|
Post by jayfab on Dec 23, 2014 16:09:40 GMT
Do not speak for me. I have NEVER said I want Wilson to rot in jail or the morgue. I NEVER said I wanted only evidence that makes him look guilty. I do not remember anyone on this board ever saying that. I want the truth and I do not believe we got it. I DO NOT want revenge. I believe an independent prosecutor and grand jury should have been provided. That's it. You obviously can only hear your own words and nothing else. I have a lot of respect for leos and have many as friends BUT I can also hear the frustration of the citizens. Sorry you have such a closed mind. I was more speaking for those that chant "what do we want? Dead cops. When do we want it? Now." But we were discussing the Wilson investigation, not the chanting. But as far as the bad protesters, now I understand your thinking. The fringe speak for all. Yup, gotcha.
|
|
|
Post by ~Zoey~ on Dec 23, 2014 16:14:15 GMT
Whenever I think about jobs that I would never, ever want to do, police officer is always in the top 5 as I'm way, way too much of a coward. Police officers/sheriffs have my utmost respect, with the caveat that I recognize that there are ones who most assuredly do not deserve it.
|
|
|
Post by katieanna on Dec 23, 2014 16:16:43 GMT
Excellent post, Cannes. Thank you, also, for explaining what is all is entailed in an officer's training. My prayers are with your husband, you, your family and all our police officers and their families. It's an extremely dangerous job and seems to becoming more so as time goes on.
|
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
Jun 16, 2024 2:14:50 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2014 16:31:47 GMT
I was more speaking for those that chant "what do we want? Dead cops. When do we want it? Now." But we were discussing the Wilson investigation, not the chanting. But as far as the bad protesters, now I understand your thinking. The fringe speak for all. Yup, gotcha. Actually we're talking about the protesters as well...this quoted from your post on page 4 (which then prompted me to post the video of the "we want dead cops" video)
You said "There is sooooo much misinformation out there it's ludicrous. Those of you who are blaming Rev Shapton need to chill. (I still think he's nutty but he did not call for killing cops) Blame the slimy FOX affiliate caught FAKING a story!!! LIE"
So you point out some slimy FOX affiliate caught faking a story about terrible things protesters say, yet I give you video footage of terrible things protesters are saying and you don't want to see it?
Yup, gotcha.
|
|
|
Post by not2peased on Dec 23, 2014 16:38:32 GMT
I believe I was attributing some comments to leowife that weren't actually made by her-my bad
I believe most people have a lot of respect for LEO, I know I do. what I don't understand is why being upset at the actions of a few bad cops is greeted with such disbelief and outrage by some folks-especially those in LE. we are somehow lumping together all LEO-which is not the case at all. there is a problem in the LE community in general that needs to be addressed-pretending it doesn't exist, or pretending that anyone that speaks up to condemn it is somehow responsible for violence against the police is absurd and deeply insulting. I don't condone violence and most of the people protesting the actions of LE don't condone violence either. They aren't all criminals and losers or those defending criminals and losers.
I understand that LE has to make decisions in the spur of the moment, but if that decision is the wrong one-the person needs to be held accountable.
|
|
|
Post by jonda1974 on Dec 23, 2014 17:17:34 GMT
more than just her were lying. If he had kept everybody who lied off of the stand and decided that himself, he would have been accused of picking what to present. WTH. He DID pick what to present. THAT"S the problem. He picked what ever would clear Wilson and threw everything else out! Wilson and his boss changed their stories. There's a cover up going on. It's pretty blatant. That's why people are angry. Then it should go to trial and get to the truth. Sorry jayfab, but you might want to get your facts straight. This is not an uncommon practice. It is rare, but not uncommon especially in the case of police shootings. Every witness that reported something was put on the stand, and they were then questioned to determine the validity of their stories. It prevents anyone saying after the fact that the prosecutor only put up witnesses to determine the direction of the case. In this instance there were a lot of lying witnesses, and many of them lying about Officer Wilson. The funny thing is, that this is just the newest talking point to discredit and place blame on the Officer for trying to arrest a thug. This story actually came out almost 2 weeks ago. Here is one of the original articles from CNN. CNN
|
|
|
Post by freecharlie on Dec 23, 2014 17:29:01 GMT
The prosecutor should be interested in pursuing the TRUTH. (and IMO, hearing both sides of the story vs. only listening to one and throwing out the other is not the way to find the truth)
But those that want Darren Wilson to rot in jail (or in the morgue) aren't really interested in truth either, IMO. They're not interested in justice. They want revenge and that's NOT the way our justice system works.
Perhaps McCullough knew he'd be the one responsible for putting on some sham of a trial, with a number of witnesses who lied, changed their story, and whose stories don't at all jive with the physical evidence in the case.
Do not speak for me. I have NEVER said I want Wilson to rot in jail or the morgue. I NEVER said I wanted only evidence that makes him look guilty. I do not remember anyone on this board ever saying that. I want the truth and I do not believe we got it. I DO NOT want revenge. I believe an independent prosecutor and grand jury should have been provided. That's it. You obviously can only hear your own words and nothing else. I have a lot of respect for leos and have many as friends BUT I can also hear the frustration of the citizens. Sorry you have such a closed mind. I don't have a closed mind. What I posted went right along with the text of thr article you posted
|
|
|
Post by jonda1974 on Dec 23, 2014 17:35:32 GMT
I believe I was attributing some comments to leowife that weren't actually made by her-my bad I believe most people have a lot of respect for LEO, I know I do. what I don't understand is why being upset at the actions of a few bad cops is greeted with such disbelief and outrage by some folks-especially those in LE. we are somehow lumping together all LEO-which is not the case at all. there is a problem in the LE community in general that needs to be addressed-pretending it doesn't exist, or pretending that anyone that speaks up to condemn it is somehow responsible for violence against the police is absurd and deeply insulting. I don't condone violence and most of the people protesting the actions of LE don't condone violence either. They aren't all criminals and losers or those defending criminals and losers. I understand that LE has to make decisions in the spur of the moment, but if that decision is the wrong one-the person needs to be held accountable. I agree with you. Unfortunately the two men who are being protested about are not the cases to be bringing this argument into play. Neither were racially motivated, and both resulted through the actions of the criminal.
|
|
|
Post by gmcwife1 on Dec 23, 2014 18:03:44 GMT
This was a really good read, thank you!
|
|
|
Post by I-95 on Dec 23, 2014 18:33:42 GMT
Cannes.... thanks for your excellent response. I have a nephew who is a detective so I recall some of the training he went through when he fist joined the police force. Did anyone happen to catch the Diane Rehms show on NPR this morning? She had several guests on but one, whose name and job title I didn't catch, mentioned he had been a LEO for 33 years. Anyway, he referenced the Tamir Rice case and flat out said those officers were too close. They should have pulled up anywhere from 10-30 yards away and tried to start a dialog....while requesting back up. He said that's exactly what their training required them to do and they failed. He also said the recurring theme in many of the officer involved shootings recently, was officers getting in too close and ignoring what they had been trained to do. He also said that until PDs start holding these officers accountable, the public will never trust them. Naturally I thought he was intelligent and insightful...
|
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
Jun 16, 2024 2:14:50 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2014 19:24:17 GMT
Come on ladies lets talk reform...Do we push for judicial reform, LEO reform, tougher sentencing for repeat offenders, more intervention for youth, more LEO, more training, national hiring standards....what we all know the system is flawed, how do we begin.
Some standards from our department that astounded us: *Reading comprehension: Applicants must achieve a minimum score of 80 % to advance in selection process. Really...only 80 *No minimum college degree *Background investigation indicates a less than acceptable job performance with past employers. This sheriff has re-hired a deputy that was fired for shooting and killing a citizen 2 years ago. He lied during the IA investigation and was the major reason he was fired. His wife now is a SGT. in detectives and has pulled in favors. We have a Capt, who was cheating on his wife was demoted to slick sleeve and was transferred back to a supervisor position after the election. *Incidents of past physical or mental abuse of any person. We had two make it through the process recently and the ex-wife of one found out and flew from overseas to have his a** fired. The other one was found out when he applied for a class with the FBI.Obviously they need a better background investigator, but the Sheriff does nothing. *Behavior unsuitable or inappropriate for a Deputy Sheriff/Detention Officer as determined by the Sheriff. This is a BIG JOKE. The sheriff is a wonderful person, we are in the bible belt and his supporters believe because he attends church, volunteers in the community and has started citizen LEO academies he walks on water. But I digress he is a wonderful person, but a horrible leader. No BACKBONE.
We talked last night over dinner, some thoughts from a group of about 15 LEO & their families...from guys with 20+ years to guys who have just started patrol. We are a Sheriffs department, so run a jail & the county courthouse. N.C has no unions and work at the pleasure of the sheriff, means he can fire you for ANY reason. So the training here might differ from other departments. The overwhelming response was the same...National standards for PD's, SO/ SD & State Police.
1) Raise the minimum age for patrol to 24. They all gave reason and hell 2 of the guys just turned 24. They all felt it was OK to keep the age at 21 for the jail & courts, but for anything patrol related 24.
2) A four year degree or 4 years of military service for any division in LEO.
3) Work a year in the jail, six moths front desk, six months in the courthouse & when you finish rotation then you can transfer to patrol/not before you reach 24 years of age. A minimum commitment of 18 months on patrol before transferring to specialized squads( ERT ,K-9, Detectives,Vice, SRO's & etc).
4) Patrol FTO should be a minimum of 6 months.
5) ALL patrol should do a round (2-3 weeks) at a mental health facility to see how to interact with mental subject and have mental health professions explain some common problems.
6) More than one week of mandatory in-service. With ore focus on mental health subjects, safety techniques, self defense & better communication with the public.
7) That after a certain amount of years higher up need to rise in rank or be demoted. The stagnate of having the same person in a leadership role who does nothing hurts the whole department.
8) Nationwide procedure for promotions, hiring & firings.
So much more, but this is a good start.
|
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
Jun 16, 2024 2:14:50 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2014 19:37:55 GMT
Come on ladies lets talk reform...Do we push for judicial reform, LEO reform, tougher sentencing for repeat offenders, more intervention for youth, more LEO, more training, national hiring standards....what we all know the system is flawed, how do we begin. Some standards from our department that astounded us: *Reading comprehension: Applicants must achieve a minimum score of 80 % to advance in selection process. Really...only 80 *No minimum college degree *Background investigation indicates a less than acceptable job performance with past employers. This sheriff has re-hired a deputy that was fired for shooting and killing a citizen 2 years ago. He lied during the IA investigation and was the major reason he was fired. His wife now is a SGT. in detectives and has pulled in favors. We have a Capt, who was cheating on his wife was demoted to slick sleeve and was transferred back to a supervisor position after the election. *Incidents of past physical or mental abuse of any person. We had two make it through the process recently and the ex-wife of one found out and flew from overseas to have his a** fired. The other one was found out when he applied for a class with the FBI.Obviously they need a better background investigator, but the Sheriff does nothing. *Behavior unsuitable or inappropriate for a Deputy Sheriff/Detention Officer as determined by the Sheriff. This is a BIG JOKE. The sheriff is a wonderful person, we are in the bible belt and his supporters believe because he attends church, volunteers in the community and has started citizen LEO academies he walks on water. But I digress he is a wonderful person, but a horrible leader. No BACKBONE. We talked last night over dinner, some thoughts from a group of about 15 LEO & their families...from guys with 20+ years to guys who have just started patrol. We are a Sheriffs department, so run a jail & the county courthouse. N.C has no unions and work at the pleasure of the sheriff, means he can fire you for ANY reason. So the training here might differ from other departments. The overwhelming response was the same...National standards for PD's, SO/ SD & State Police. 1) Raise the minimum age for patrol to 24. They all gave reason and hell 2 of the guys just turned 24. They all felt it was OK to keep the age at 21 for the jail & courts, but for anything patrol related 24. 2) A four year degree or 4 years of military service for any division in LEO. 3) Work a year in the jail, six moths front desk, six months in the courthouse & when you finish rotation then you can transfer to patrol/not before you reach 24 years of age. A minimum commitment of 18 months on patrol before transferring to specialized squads( ERT ,K-9, Detectives,Vice, SRO's & etc). 4) Patrol FTO should be a minimum of 6 months. 5) ALL patrol should do a round (2-3 weeks) at a mental health facility to see how to interact with mental subject and have mental health professions explain some common problems. 6) More than one week of mandatory in-service. With ore focus on mental health subjects, safety techniques, self defense & better communication with the public. 7) That after a certain amount of years higher up need to rise in rank or be demoted. The stagnate of having the same person in a leadership role who does nothing hurts the whole department. 8) Nationwide procedure for promotions, hiring & firings. So much more, but this is a good start. Here's some "reform" I thought of last night as I was watching our local news, giving a background of the NYC cop killer while he was here in Atlanta. This guy was arrested 19 times. NINETEEN. I know we cannot build enough prisons to house these repeat offenders, but something has to be done for someone who has been arrested NINETEEN times. There is no excuse for that nonsense. I know Eric Garner was also arrested a crazy amount of times. If someone cares so little about our laws and justice system that they're going to be arrested NINETEEN times, clearly they should not be permitted to live amongst those that choose to NOT commit crimes and be arrested time and time and time and time and time and time again. I think if we begin to get really serious with criminals, they'd consider thinking about making positive changes in their lives and make the decision to NOT commit crimes and risk arrest.
|
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
Jun 16, 2024 2:14:50 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2014 19:54:52 GMT
OK LEO can do all the reform in the world but when the citizens you serve and protect do this .....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y74eM8OsICI&feature=youtu.be How do you not take that personal? As a human being I find that horrible and this is the reason our society is going the way it is. IGNORANCE. Disgusted does not even cover it
|
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
Jun 16, 2024 2:14:50 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2014 20:08:26 GMT
The overwhelming support from people is outstanding sometimes. Our local high school, where we spend so much of our free time, we run staff apprecation, are remodeling the media center, sit on school improvement and help with the science, community service & construction classes... parents think we work there, have stood up and spoke out on violence against LEO. They have done an all call asking for our students and families thought and prayers for our first responders over the holidays. They finished the call stating that no disrespect to LEO's will be tolerated upon the return of students. Any student found in violation will face suspension. I love my high school!!! One of our most liberal teachers just posted this to my wall....I love my teachers.
"Today, I will not answer the radio call that your boyfriend has come home drunk and is beating you again. Today I will not answer the radio call that your 16 year old daughter, who is very responsible, is four hours late coming home from school. Today I will not answer the radio call that your store has been robbed or your house has been burglarized. Today I will not stop a drunk driver from killing someone. I will not catch a rapist or a murderer or a car thief. Today I will not answer the radio call that a man has a gun or tried to abduct a child or that someone has been stabbed or has been in a terrible accident. Today I will not save your child that you locked in a car or the child you were to busy to watch who went outside and fell into the swimming pool, but that I revived. No, today I will not do that.
Why?
Because Today I was killed by a drunk driver while I was helping push a disabled car off the highway. Today I was shot and killed during a routine traffic stop to simply tell someone that they had a taillight out. Today I was killed in a traffic accident rushing to help a citizen. Today I was shot and killed serving a warrant on a known drug dealer. Today I was killed by a man when I came by to do a welfare check because his family was to busy. Today I was killed trying to stop a bank robbery or a grocery store robbery. Today I was killed doing my job.
A chaplain and an officer will go to a house and tell a mom and dad or a wife or husband or a child that their son or daughter or husband or wife or father or mother won’t be coming home today. The flags at many police stations were flown at half-mast today but most people won’t know why. There will be a funeral and my fellow officers will come, a twenty-one-gun salute will be given, and taps will be played as I am laid to rest. My name will be put on a plaque, on a wall, in a building, in a city somewhere. A folded flag will be placed on a mantel or a bookcase in a home somewhere and a family will mourn.
There will be no cries for justice. There will be no riots in the streets. There will be no officers marching, screaming “no justice, no peace.” No citizens will scream that something must be done. No windows will be smashed, no cars burned, no stones thrown, no names called. Only someone crying themselves to sleep tonight will be the only sign that I was cared about.
I was a police officer."
unknown
|
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
Jun 16, 2024 2:14:50 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2014 20:11:05 GMT
OK LEO can do all the reform in the world but when the citizens you serve and protect do this .....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y74eM8OsICI&feature=youtu.be How do you not take that personal? As a human being I find that horrible and this is the reason our society is going the way it is. IGNORANCE. Disgusted does not even cover it That is very disgusting! What's even more disgusting is whoever posted that video interjected that horrible phrase into the video. That video was from a cell phone. From high up. The shouted phrase is very clear. No way was it from that day or that march.
|
|
|
Post by freecharlie on Dec 23, 2014 20:58:08 GMT
I'm no saying the above are bad ideas, but here are some things to think about:
1) why not 22? If you are requiring a bachelor's, most people graduate around 22.
2) taxes will need to be raised to keep pay in line with that mandate. Why would I go to college for 4 yearsand incur that debt to get paid less than a manager at Starbucks and have to risk my life daily. (BTW I am in favor of better pay)
3) again not sure about the age. I think the jail requirement sounds good, but wouldn't you have a bunch of newbies always working the jail?
What about a mentor program? Extend otj training? Mandatory observations every 6 months or so after the otj ends?
4) idk what fto means in this example
5. Again, doesn't that screw the mental facility? What do you do in areas without wards? I think classes and a rotation isn't a bad idea, but it should be part of their training prior to employment AND can't just be a one time deal. Practice and training at least every year.
7. Some people like where they are and don't want to move up. I never want to be a principal, I want to be a teacher. Perhaps the beat cop feels the same way. You could term limit,
8) states rights come into play here and I have no idea how the different department or states do this.
Honestly, what it really comes down to is money. Mone for decent pay and raises, money for proper and then excellent training, money for education with the public, money for proper equipment and money for a system that can fairly evaluateofficer conduct without putting them on some stupid rubric that doesn't really evaluate anything.
And the people of this country and their elected officials don't want to pay for law enforcement
|
|
|
Post by newscrapper05 on Dec 23, 2014 21:07:02 GMT
I'm responding ONLY to those who say that good officers protect bad ones. What hurts is painting all officers with the same brush. My SIL is a LEO - there was a bad officer who was videotaped abusing a suspect. My SIL testified AGAINST that officer and that officer was fired. After a year in the courts the police department was ordered by the court to reinstate the officer and give him back pay. Please consider this when you feel that they protect each other to the end.
|
|
|
Post by freecharlie on Dec 23, 2014 21:09:50 GMT
I'm responding ONLY to those who say that good officers protect bad ones. What hurts is painting all officers with the same brush. My SIL is a LEO - there was a bad officer who was videotaped abusing a suspect. My SIL testified AGAINST that officer and that officer was fired. After a year in the courts the police department was ordered by the court to reinstate the officer and give him back pay. Please consider this when you feel that they protect each other to the end. yeah, the reinstatement thong seems bullshit, but sometimes they are fired based on the media coverage and not the facts. Maybe body and dash-cams for all is the answer, but won't the civil rights people and the aclu whine about people being taped without their permission or without being mirandized?
|
|
NoWomanNoCry
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,856
Jun 25, 2014 21:53:42 GMT
|
Post by NoWomanNoCry on Dec 23, 2014 21:19:48 GMT
Speaking of pay- some depts do offer decent money. Not all do and where we are at they don't. DH had a side dept he worked part time (because his FT dept don't pay well either) and the PT dept just got bumped up in pay when DH was there. The pay bump was $12.00/hr. This dept is not a full time dept so they are only ran by PT officers.
DH went to college. Heads all the drug work for his FT dept. works for the drug task force when they are in our area. He goes to tons of voluntary training in different things yearly as well as his mandatory training. His pay doesn't reflect any of this.
|
|
|
Post by not2peased on Dec 23, 2014 21:23:18 GMT
OK LEO can do all the reform in the world but when the citizens you serve and protect do this .....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y74eM8OsICI&feature=youtu.be How do you not take that personal? As a human being I find that horrible and this is the reason our society is going the way it is. IGNORANCE. Disgusted does not even cover it
I think people need to remember that when they see LEO's beating up, hassling and killing their family members and friends, it's also hard for them to not take the action personally.
some say we shouldn't judge unless we've walked a mile in a LEO's shoes-well, the same could be said for people of color who have been mistreated at the hands of LE. don't judge them, unless you've walked a mile in their shoes.
again, I have nothing but respect for LE in general, however, there is a LOT of clean up that needs to be done before people feel safe again.
|
|