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Post by fridaycat on Jun 29, 2015 19:25:05 GMT
Has reaffirmed they are anti-gay marriage? Would you keep attending that same church?
I'm struggling with this issue and Facebook isn't helping. Several church members who I am friends with have been vocal about their dissatisfaction with the ruling and how it goes against the teachings of the Bible. For me it complicates things by now being able to put a name and face on the situation.
I can elaborate more but that's the beginning of what I'm feeling.
Thanks for any helpful input you can provide me with.
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RosieKat
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Post by RosieKat on Jun 29, 2015 19:29:15 GMT
I'm all about trying to work change from within. It's not going to happen on a grand scale anytime, but I can work to subvert individuals.
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Post by monklady123 on Jun 29, 2015 19:33:03 GMT
Personally I wouldn't continue to attend a church that preached that, unless I had really REALLY good friends there. And maybe not even then. We can see our friends outside of church, after all.
I couldn't sit there and listen to that week after week...it would make me too angry.
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Post by meridon on Jun 29, 2015 19:33:07 GMT
I left the denomination I grew up in back in 1998 over this issue. My values and what I believed weren't in the official church doctrine and official doctrine included things I knew I could never believe. I get the whole "be an agent of change" thing but I have been so much happier in my new denomination, especially now that I have children and they are being raised in a tradition I am more comfortable with.
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kate
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Post by kate on Jun 29, 2015 19:34:23 GMT
That's a hard one. Twice in my life I have walked out of a church, never to return, after a particularly vehement anti-gay sermon. The churches I attend now are all about acceptance. All of those churches are Catholic.
Are you talking about changing denominations, or changing within a denomination? I think the former would be difficult for me. It would also be hard if I had deep ties in the community at the church where I was unhappy. Fortunately, the churches I abandoned were "new" to me at the time, not places I considered my parish home.
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Post by librarylady on Jun 29, 2015 19:35:09 GMT
I would have to leave that congregation.
Many years ago, I stumbled into a church that had openly gay members. When I realized it, I thought, "How nice that a person can be out and be accepted." When AIDs hit, that church had a team of caregivers....and demonstrated that Christ taught us all to love one another.
Yesterday we had a mini-celebration of the SC decision.
We figure Jesus' statement that the greatest commandment is to love your neighbor as yourself...and if we do that, all the other laws fall into place. (of course that is a paraphrase)
All those statements of condemnation were written by Paul....I happen to think Jesus' statement trumps what Paul said.
I believe God made gay people and I believe God loves all people. --Just like you, I have friends who think otherwise. I don't discuss this issue with them. Live and let live..........
But, I can't attend a church that preaches "ill will" towards any group of people.
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Post by peanutterbutter on Jun 29, 2015 19:35:57 GMT
Education and example are always the key to changing others beliefs. If your church makes you feel extremely uncomfortable or outcast because your beliefs and daily practice may differ, it might be time to find a more compatible church. If your church is at all open to change, or at least to not preaching a message of hate, and you have a positive religious and prayer life there, consider staying and working to change from within.
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oldcrow
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Post by oldcrow on Jun 29, 2015 19:37:17 GMT
Are there many or any gays that attend your church? I would guess probably not.
While the topic is fresh there will be talk. Once the freshness has worn off your church will seem to be just what it has always been.
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Nink
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Post by Nink on Jun 29, 2015 19:38:23 GMT
I have left a church over that very thing. It was very hard for me to stomach being around such a group of self righteous, judgmental, hypocrites week after week.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2015 19:44:40 GMT
I don't think I could stay. But, this is about you, and change from within is a sound theory. I think this is a very personal decision that revolves around what you and your family get from that congregation and pastoral care.
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stittsygirl
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Post by stittsygirl on Jun 29, 2015 19:48:07 GMT
I was faced with this same conflict about ten years ago. But at that time I already suspected I had a gay child (which I did). My biggest concern at the time was how could I foster a high sense of self-worth in my child and hope for a happy future if the church, and its God, taught him he was only worthy of earthly love if he lied about who he was, or otherwise remain celibate. That initiated a journey that took me out of that church, and eventually religion, for good. But obviously not everyone will follow the same path. As far as changing things from within, the church I left has little tolerance for public dissent or call for change, but yours might be different.
If you have children, think about what they are being taught about LGBTQ people in your current church, and then imagine if one of them was LGBTQ themselves.
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Post by bc2ca on Jun 29, 2015 19:48:49 GMT
We stopped attending church when the kids were in preschool because we couldn't reconcile our beliefs with church doctrine.
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Loydene
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Post by Loydene on Jun 29, 2015 19:48:46 GMT
I fall on the "crazy cake baking Christians" side of any religion -- if they are insufferable snots, then I'm not associating with them.
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mallie
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Post by mallie on Jun 29, 2015 19:49:32 GMT
No. I would not stay. I'm not going to compromise my morality to conform with church dogma.
Through my work, I have dealt with a number of young people who have self esteem issues, self destructive behaviors and suicide attempts who were raised by loving parents who foolishly attended anti gay churches. The emotional destruction caused by anti gay religious rhetoric is real, even when The family is not anti gay or even, pro gay rights.
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Post by krazykatlady on Jun 29, 2015 19:49:57 GMT
We left our church of 25 years three years ago for a variety of reasons, this being one of them. Many of the members are my "friends" on Facebook and between this issue and the Confederate flag one, I am reminded why I left that congregation. It really makes me sad because otherwise I love these people. I know I need to unfriend them on Facebook because it only serves to irritate and sadden me to witness their complete unChristian attitudes.
We tried a different church but have ultimately given up on it too. I am currently completely disenchanted with 'organized' religion and really don't think I can ever go back to attending church.
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Post by freecharlie on Jun 29, 2015 19:51:14 GMT
I not only left a church that I grew up in, but I turned my back on religion in general because of its judgmental and exclusionary beliefs.
I could not handle the hypocrisy
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garcia5050
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Post by garcia5050 on Jun 29, 2015 19:53:29 GMT
I'm catholic (not devout), but very left-leaning. I've never heard the following topics discussed directly during mass: abortion, birth control, or gays/gay marriage. I've only heard a very generic "At the voting polls, remember you are Catholic first, then a Republican or Democrat." Whatever. I vote how I want. If my church harped on topics that I did not agree with, I would probably change. I really like the community/outreach programs and our main priest is very entertaining, so I stay.
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conchita
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Post by conchita on Jun 29, 2015 19:54:50 GMT
Pray about it. Ask God to lead and guide you and your family towards His perfect will in your lives.
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georgiapea
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Post by georgiapea on Jun 29, 2015 20:00:01 GMT
No, I would send the church a letter asking that my membership be terminated and tell them the reason.
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Dani-Mani
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Post by Dani-Mani on Jun 29, 2015 20:02:46 GMT
I have chosen to stay.
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Post by leftturnonly on Jun 29, 2015 20:27:28 GMT
Churches split and divide, creating new churches that meet the new needs of the people.
It has been happening for a long, long time.
The church I grew up in, which was built as a radical departure from the Quaker, has been torn down. Congregations move on.
So, if you're looking for permission to move on, why? Are you concerned the church needs your presence to survive? (A possible real concern.) Do you want to look for a church that you are less at odds with? Are you wanting time apart from churches in general?
I think your answer will lead you.
If you stay, I suggest introducing the idea that American Civil Rights cover people of every faith, just as God's love does.
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Post by compwalla on Jun 29, 2015 20:28:27 GMT
If you are in a church that says love the sinner, hate the sin then you're sitting in a paradox. Since gay is not a choice, no matter what anyone says to the contrary, then you are forced to believe that your deity created this gay person knowing in advance that he or she would be doomed to either a life of unrepentant sin by being in a gay relationship or doomed to a lonely life of celibacy if they chose to follow the teachings of the church. If they feel forced to choose the latter then you have think the deity relegating the person to a life without the fulfillment of a long term relationship is somehow not a complete asshole and is still worth of your love and devotion. I couldn't do it, personally. But I come at this as a person who never has and never will have any use for either a deity or a religion. I know it isn't as easy to leave faith behind for someone who hasn't come up secular like I did.
In the end you've got to follow your heart and do what you think is right.
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Post by scrapqueen01 on Jun 29, 2015 20:33:52 GMT
Such topics or politics have no business being preached about in the pulpit.
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anniebygaslight
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Post by anniebygaslight on Jun 29, 2015 20:36:35 GMT
I not only left a church that I grew up in, but I turned my back on religion in general because of its judgmental and exclusionary beliefs. I could not handle the hypocrisy That's me.
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bethany102399
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Post by bethany102399 on Jun 29, 2015 20:43:19 GMT
This would be the question I would ask. Congregations differ wildly depending on many factors. DH and I belong to a VERY liberal church sometimes too liberal IMO, but that's another thread. My mom on the other hand belongs to a church that is much more conservative, and would not participate in some of the things our church openly and joyously participates in.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2015 20:50:22 GMT
I left. I cannot personally be a part of something that discriminates against homosexuals, women, etc.
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Post by moveablefeast on Jun 29, 2015 21:43:51 GMT
I want to be part of a church that believes Jesus really existed, really was sent from God and lived and died and was resurrected, for our salvation. That's really important to me. I couldn't - for me - go to a church that believes that Jesus is one of many ways, not The Way as He said. I am really an orthodox/evangelical girl at heart (and I like a little charismatic thrown in there for good measure).
So over the years, I have stayed in the same church even though it's pretty conservative on the social stuff, mostly because it's a place where I have learned to follow Jesus and where I have been loved. Certainly the church is about much more than just the issue of human sexuality - we spend a lot more time talking about mission, caring for others, and reconciliation with God and each other than we do talking about sex. I've had opportunities to serve in really meaningful ways, and I've been served in really meaningful ways. I feel supported and built up here. I've never felt that I wanted to leave. My daughter has amazing friends here, and I do too. People who ask about you if you haven't been to church in a few weeks, things like that. I think if nothing else I feel respected here, and I've been able to talk about issues of sexual identity pretty freely in appropriate contexts, and I think we have a lot of understanding going on.
I suppose if there was a place that was pretty solid about Jesus but liberal on the social stuff, I'd be inclined to check it out. But I don't know that I've ever found that. I was an Episcopalian previous to this, and I think I've grown increasingly unhappy with the way TEC has viewed Jesus even though I respect their social positions and activities.
So I guess the long and short of it really is that I stayed because this is a place that is home for me, at least for this season of my life.
I've learned that there are some people here who are pretty harsh about homosexuals and I've learned to steer clear of them, honestly. I also felt, on the flip side, that as a person with a more evangelical theology I was not well suited in the Episcopal church, where such things are too simple-minded, not sophisticated enough (I know this is not how all Episcopalians feel, but that's how I felt our denominational leadership viewed me). I would have remained as part of the evangelical remnant, except then our Presiding Bishop said in open court, after the denomination sued fellow believers, that she would rather see an evangelical church's property sold and torn down for a saloon or a mosque than to see it in the hands of the evangelicals. And I knew TEC was done with me. I don't see how I could ever go back.
So there is not always a perfect place for anyone.
I think we make the best choices we can based on what's deepest and most crucial to us. I feel very free here. I hang out on the ideological fringe a little and that's okay with everybody.
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scrapaddie
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Post by scrapaddie on Jun 29, 2015 21:49:06 GMT
That's a hard one. Twice in my life I have walked out of a church, never to return, after a particularly vehement anti-gay sermon. The churches I attend now are all about acceptance. All of those churches are Catholic. Are you talking about changing denominations, or changing within a denomination? I think the former would be difficult for me. It would also be hard if I had deep ties in the community at the church where I was unhappy. Fortunately, the churches I abandoned were "new" to me at the time, not places I considered my parish home. I have never heard an anti-gay sermon. It was a little unclear in your post. Where the churches you left Catholic, or are the churches you are attending now Catholic? Just curious.
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Post by Skypea on Jun 29, 2015 21:51:22 GMT
I would have to leave that congregation. Many years ago, I stumbled into a church that had openly gay members. When I realized it, I thought, "How nice that a person can be out and be accepted." When AIDs hit, that church had a team of caregivers....and demonstrated that Christ taught us all to love one another. Yesterday we had a mini-celebration of the SC decision. We figure Jesus' statement that the greatest commandment is to love your neighbor as yourself...and if we do that, all the other laws fall into place. (of course that is a paraphrase) All those statements of condemnation were written by Paul....I happen to think Jesus' statement trumps what Paul said.
I believe God made gay people and I believe God loves all people. --Just like you, I have friends who think otherwise. I don't discuss this issue with them. Live and let live.......... But, I can't attend a church that preaches "ill will" towards any group of people.
IF the words of Paul were contrary to those of Jesus, I would agree. However, his words are NOT contrary to those of Jesus.
Matthew 19 (NKJV) ----- (Him and He = Jesus)
3 The Pharisees also came to Him, testing Him, and saying to Him, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for just any reason?”
4 And He answered and said to them, “Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning ‘made them male and female,’ 5 and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? 6 So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.”
fyi - Paul was specifically called by Jesus and spent 3 yrs with Jesus being taught what He wanted him to teach in his new earthly ministry. The teaching of salvation thru the death and resurrection of Christ comes from Paul. As does the teaching of the covenant now being of grace instead of the law.
The 2nd greatest commandment does not include supporting or taking part in sin. That is not showing love. No where does Jesus tell/command us to support or take part in sin. That IS contrary to His teachings. Both Hebrew and Greek have numerous meanings that are translated into English as 'love'. Look up 'love' in Strong's concordance as it is used in the 2nd great commandment and see if it doesn't say 'agape'. That is love like God has for us. God does not show us 'love' by encouraging or supporting sin in our lives. Completely the opposite.
A Christian church should welcome homosexuals if they come there. They should also continue to teach the truth as given in God's word.
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Post by leftturnonly on Jun 29, 2015 21:58:32 GMT
Skypea - males and females will continue to leave their parents and marry, just as you quoted. Where is the mention of those who were created both male and female, though? Because hermaphrodites have been with us throughout the human existence.
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