Rainbow
Pearl Clutcher
Where salt is in the air and sand is at my feet...
Posts: 4,103
Jun 26, 2014 5:57:41 GMT
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Post by Rainbow on Jun 9, 2016 23:11:10 GMT
I am SO glad that all of the criminals I know subscribe to 9th US Circuit Court of Appeals Daily so they can stay up to date on what is legal and what is illegal. I heard that the Bloods and Crips even organized a phone chain so that they could let everyone know. I'm sure they're pretty excited about it, less intervention when they commit a crime.
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Post by birukitty on Jun 9, 2016 23:14:14 GMT
Did anyone read this article? It's applies to California only. This is basically the same law that we have here in Maryland. In order to conceal carry here you have to have a good reason and prove that reason, not any Joe, Dick or Harry gets a concealed carry license. So it's not unconstitutional if it's the law in the state of Maryland.
I don't think it'll go to the Supreme Court. There's no need for it to. Since Maryland already has this law on it's books, California simply has to point to it as an example.
Personally I think it is a very good, common sense law and I'm very happy it's the law here where I live. I can go to IHOP not worried some guy is conceal carrying because in his mind he thinks he can help with a gun crime taking place there without the training that our police force has. I'd much rather trust my life to the police force itself or take my chances until the police force gets there. The last thing I want is a crossfire between the police, the "concerned citizen with his own gun" and the criminal. No thanks.
Debbie in MD.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Apr 29, 2024 3:10:38 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2016 23:17:32 GMT
I'll let my new son-in-law know- he wore one of his guns to IHOP yesterday for breakfast. I have to ask why? What is so dangerous about pancakes and waffles that he needed to go in armed?
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Rainbow
Pearl Clutcher
Where salt is in the air and sand is at my feet...
Posts: 4,103
Jun 26, 2014 5:57:41 GMT
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Post by Rainbow on Jun 9, 2016 23:19:01 GMT
I disagree. I think this law could slow the idiot who always takes his gun with him and gets irrationally pissed off about something and shoots someone, but I don't think it stops any stupid, crazy, or violent person from doing it on a whim. If you are doing it on a whim, you are not caring about the law. The reality is, with very few exceptions, there is no reason for anyone to take their guns out in public. Way too many take their guns out in public because they want to be a "big deal" as my dad use to say. You are correct if this law stands there are those wanting to be that "big deal" will break the law. But there are those who will follow the law if they have no specific threat that would necessitate them carrying a gun out in public. Which would mean less guns out in public and less mishaps. I really doubt this will stand. Effectively they are taking away the right to bear arms, and you can't do that. We have that as a right. It has NOTHING to do with being a "big deal" and has everything to do with self defense. When carrying concealed nobody sees it anyway so how is that a "big deal"?
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Jun 9, 2016 23:24:56 GMT
Well if the republicans would stop squashing bills that make it harder for bad guys to get guns... Bad guys don't care how many bills or laws you want to put on the books. They laugh at laws and continue to break them. You have to get to the criminal, not the law abiding citizen.The thing is those who push about their rights being left alone are the same who have nothing to propose as an alternative solution. They are a big part of the problem. It seems to be acceptable, to have casualties of dead children in school mass shootings, workplace, mall, random, etc. just so as not to limit the types of weapons that are out there for public purchase. Those who are doing everything right should NOT have to worry about their rights, if there are bills proposing to limit a type or to whom can apply for weapons. Okay, I'll try again. There isn't a person in the USA who needs to possess assault guns, AK's, multiple round machine gun et al, except law enforcement and military. If there is even mention of banned or prohibiting ownership of these--cries of my rights are being taken away ensue. It's possible to keep your rights AND prohibit certain types of weapons ---it would be a great start. Anytime bills are proposed for better screenings, limit on what types of weapons can be legally owned or where someone can carry, out comes the "my rights are being taken away" argument, and because many republicans are bought and paid for by the NRA and others in gun mfg. those bills get quashed. On another thread, you were adamant AND angry about the lives of 4 people working overseas who were killed. It's too bad that you cannot be JUST as adamant and angry about the THOUSANDS of innocent children and adults who are killed weekly by guns right here in the USA.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Apr 29, 2024 3:10:38 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2016 23:25:59 GMT
Did anyone read this article? It's applies to California only. This is basically the same law that we have here in Maryland. In order to conceal carry here you have to have a good reason and prove that reason, not any Joe, Dick or Harry gets a concealed carry license. So it's not unconstitutional if it's the law in the state of Maryland. I don't think it'll go to the Supreme Court. There's no need for it to. Since Maryland already has this law on it's books, California simply has to point to it as an example. Personally I think it is a very good, common sense law and I'm very happy it's the law here where I live. I can go to IHOP not worried some guy is conceal carrying because in his mind he thinks he can help with a gun crime taking place there without the training that our police force has. I'd much rather trust my life to the police force itself or take my chances until the police force gets there. The last thing I want is a crossfire between the police, the "concerned citizen with his own gun" and the criminal. No thanks. Debbie in MD. I think it will go to the Supreme Court for two reasons. First there are now two states that have this law. The NRA will not want this law spread. Second CA is a big enough state someone either here in the state or outside the state will challenge it. Again to stop this law from spreading.
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scrappinspidey2
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,511
Location: In the Parlor with the Fly
Mar 18, 2015 19:19:37 GMT
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Post by scrappinspidey2 on Jun 9, 2016 23:27:25 GMT
The last thing I want is a crossfire between the police, the "concerned citizen with his own gun" and the criminal. No thanks. Im asking this in all sincerity. I know that I have been a touch snarky in early posts but this is serious. Can you tell me the last time this actually happened? I lived in AZ for well over a decade. They had conceal carry and open carry laws. before I left the state they also had concealed carry without a permit. Not once did this scenario ever take place. That isn't to say it hasn't happened. Im sure it may possibly have, but I haven't heard of it in recent years, if ever.
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Rainbow
Pearl Clutcher
Where salt is in the air and sand is at my feet...
Posts: 4,103
Jun 26, 2014 5:57:41 GMT
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Post by Rainbow on Jun 9, 2016 23:34:32 GMT
Bad guys don't care how many bills or laws you want to put on the books. They laugh at laws and continue to break them. You have to get to the criminal, not the law abiding citizen. The thing is those who push about their rights being left alone are the same who have nothing to propose as an alternative solution. They are a big part of the problem. It seems to be acceptable, to have casualties of dead children in school mass shootings, workplace, mall, random, etc. just so as not to limit the types of weapons that are out there for public purchase. Those who are doing everything right should NOT have to worry about their rights, if there are bills proposing to limit a type or to whom can apply for weapons. Okay, I'll try again. There isn't a person in the USA who needs to possess assault guns, AK's, multiple round machine gun et al, except law enforcement and military. If there is even mention of banned or prohibiting ownership of these--cries of my rights are being taken away ensue. It's possible to keep your rights AND prohibit certain types of weapons ---it would be a great start. Anytime bills are proposed for better screenings, limit on what types of weapons can be legally owned or where someone can carry, out comes the "my rights are being taken away" argument, and because many republicans are bought and paid for by the NRA and others in gun mfg. those bills get quashed. On another thread, you were adamant AND angry about the lives of 4 people working overseas who were killed. It's too bad that you cannot be JUST as adamant and angry about the THOUSANDS of innocent children and adults who are killed weekly by guns right here in the USA. I have proposed you get to the CRIMINAL instead of flooding the rest of us with more restraints. CRIMINALS don't have any restraints. Go after them. Get them. Lock them up for a LONG TIME. Do not let them out. That is a start.
It isn't up to you to decide what kind of weapon I need. That is my decision. And who said I wasn't upset about innocent people being killed? It's upsetting to everyone, isn't it? I'm just not going to budge one inch of my rights because the left sees it as an opportunity to chip away.
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Rainbow
Pearl Clutcher
Where salt is in the air and sand is at my feet...
Posts: 4,103
Jun 26, 2014 5:57:41 GMT
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Post by Rainbow on Jun 9, 2016 23:37:31 GMT
Did anyone read this article? It's applies to California only. This is basically the same law that we have here in Maryland. In order to conceal carry here you have to have a good reason and prove that reason, not any Joe, Dick or Harry gets a concealed carry license. So it's not unconstitutional if it's the law in the state of Maryland. I don't think it'll go to the Supreme Court. There's no need for it to. Since Maryland already has this law on it's books, California simply has to point to it as an example. Personally I think it is a very good, common sense law and I'm very happy it's the law here where I live. I can go to IHOP not worried some guy is conceal carrying because in his mind he thinks he can help with a gun crime taking place there without the training that our police force has. I'd much rather trust my life to the police force itself or take my chances until the police force gets there. The last thing I want is a crossfire between the police, the "concerned citizen with his own gun" and the criminal. No thanks. Debbie in MD. You may be willing to wait until the police get there but others don't want to have to do that. You could be dead by then, along with a lot of others.
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Post by freecharlie on Jun 9, 2016 23:40:43 GMT
Okay, I'll try again. There isn't a person in the USA who needs to possess assault guns, AK's, multiple round machine gun et al, except law enforcement and military. If there is even mention of banned or prohibiting ownership of these--cries of my rights are being taken away ensue. It's possible to keep your rights AND prohibit certain types of weapons ---it would be a great start Machine guns are already banned. You cannot sell/buy one in the US without a ton of money and oversight.
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Post by birukitty on Jun 9, 2016 23:45:38 GMT
The reality is, with very few exceptions, there is no reason for anyone to take their guns out in public. Way too many take their guns out in public because they want to be a "big deal" as my dad use to say. You are correct if this law stands there are those wanting to be that "big deal" will break the law. But there are those who will follow the law if they have no specific threat that would necessitate them carrying a gun out in public. Which would mean less guns out in public and less mishaps. I really doubt this will stand. Effectively they are taking away the right to bear arms, and you can't do that. We have that as a right. It has NOTHING to do with being a "big deal" and has everything to do with self defense. When carrying concealed nobody sees it anyway so how is that a "big deal"? They aren't taking away the right to "bear arms". They are limiting the right to conceal carry. Big difference. You can still own guns here in the USA. No one is saying you can't and no one is passing a law that says you can't. You say, "When carrying concealed nobody sees it anyway so how is that a "big deal"? Well for some of us-it's a huge deal. I don't want every Tom, Dick and Harry carrying a concealed weapon into a store or restaurant where I shop or eat. I don't know what tests or qualifications they had to pass in order to obtain that conceal carry permit if I'm traveling across state lines. I have to look up every state and read their gun laws. Some are very lenient. Most are much too lenient in my opinion. Most importantly there is the issue of safety. Everyone who carries keeps talking about "their personal safety" and how it is their right to conceal carry. Fine, I get that. I really do. So what are their plans when they carry that gun in a crowded restaurant and 2 masked gunmen comes in to rob the place? Do I really believe they are only going to use their gun to protect themselves? No I don't. I don't know them-that's the scary part! Most of these folks I believe have a "hero" complex when it comes to their guns. Like I said above the last thing I want to see is a crossfire of bullets with this concealed weapon carrier "helping out". If you aren't trained for these situations like the police force is, you have no idea how to do what you need to do. In most cases you would do much more harm than good. That is what I believe. Of course the gun advocates will jump in and say differently. You asked what the "big deal" deal was. It's safety. From the above situation, to the gun going off accidentally and shooting someone the issue is safety. Personally I have to wonder what you gun advocates are so darn afraid of that you feel the need to carry your guns everywhere (including an IHOP?)? Geez, can you spell paranoid? I would hate to live with that much fear. Debbie in MD.
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Post by birukitty on Jun 9, 2016 23:51:45 GMT
Did anyone read this article? It's applies to California only. This is basically the same law that we have here in Maryland. In order to conceal carry here you have to have a good reason and prove that reason, not any Joe, Dick or Harry gets a concealed carry license. So it's not unconstitutional if it's the law in the state of Maryland. I don't think it'll go to the Supreme Court. There's no need for it to. Since Maryland already has this law on it's books, California simply has to point to it as an example. Personally I think it is a very good, common sense law and I'm very happy it's the law here where I live. I can go to IHOP not worried some guy is conceal carrying because in his mind he thinks he can help with a gun crime taking place there without the training that our police force has. I'd much rather trust my life to the police force itself or take my chances until the police force gets there. The last thing I want is a crossfire between the police, the "concerned citizen with his own gun" and the criminal. No thanks. Debbie in MD. You may be willing to wait until the police get there but others don't want to have to do that. You could be dead by then, along with a lot of others. Then don't move to Maryland-because that's the law as we have it here. It's wonderful going into a restaurant or going shopping knowing no one is conceal carrying, unless they've met the very strict criteria for it. It's very peaceful and I love it here. Debbie in MD.
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scrappinspidey2
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,511
Location: In the Parlor with the Fly
Mar 18, 2015 19:19:37 GMT
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Post by scrappinspidey2 on Jun 9, 2016 23:56:38 GMT
I don't want every Tom, Dick and Harry carrying a concealed weapon into a store or restaurant where I shop or eat. The surprising thing is how many people are carrying around you and you don't know. Its way more than you think. They aren't flashing them around and acting all crazy with them. You are right that you don't know what kind of training they have, but why assume they have minimum training. Most of the concealed carry permit holders I know train often, keep up their skills etc. You would be shocked at how many police officers do not shoot regularly once they have passed their yearly qualification. You would be surprised to know how many actually fail their qualifications as well. Used to drive my husband batty. So while you are waiting for the trained officers to show up, you can't be 100% for certain that they have the skills you need them to have. Any more than you can be 100% certain that the concealed permit carrier in your midst isn't up to date on his/her skills. If I were in a crowded place and two robbers showed up, they can have what ever they want. Even off duty officers are taught not to shoot in that circumstance. Why is it always a crowded place that is the example always given? When was the last time a concealed weapons holder got involved in a crossfire incident between police and bad guys? How many of those incidents have occurred in the last 5 years? I would be more concerned about a stray bullets which happens with police, violent gun crimes, etc. I carry when allowed. I am not afraid. I am not paranoid (well except of spiders....) Just because you can't understand why I feel it important to carry doesn't make me afraid or paranoid....It just means I have a different point of view
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AnotherPea
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,968
Jan 4, 2015 1:47:52 GMT
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Post by AnotherPea on Jun 9, 2016 23:58:20 GMT
Debbie, in one post you claim someone who carries is paranoid. Then in the next you state how wonderful it is to eat in a restaurant without worrying that someone could have a gun under his jacket. I'd think that worrying about someone who took a class and obtained a concealed carry permit is far more paranoid than worrying about criminals that mean to do harm.
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Rainbow
Pearl Clutcher
Where salt is in the air and sand is at my feet...
Posts: 4,103
Jun 26, 2014 5:57:41 GMT
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Post by Rainbow on Jun 10, 2016 0:07:57 GMT
I really doubt this will stand. Effectively they are taking away the right to bear arms, and you can't do that. We have that as a right. It has NOTHING to do with being a "big deal" and has everything to do with self defense. When carrying concealed nobody sees it anyway so how is that a "big deal"? They aren't taking away the right to "bear arms". They are limiting the right to conceal carry. Big difference. You can still own guns here in the USA. No one is saying you can't and no one is passing a law that says you can't. You say, "When carrying concealed nobody sees it anyway so how is that a "big deal"? Well for some of us-it's a huge deal. I don't want every Tom, Dick and Harry carrying a concealed weapon into a store or restaurant where I shop or eat. I don't know what tests or qualifications they had to pass in order to obtain that conceal carry permit if I'm traveling across state lines. I have to look up every state and read their gun laws. Some are very lenient. Most are much too lenient in my opinion. Most importantly there is the issue of safety. Everyone who carries keeps talking about "their personal safety" and how it is their right to conceal carry. Fine, I get that. I really do. So what are their plans when they carry that gun in a crowded restaurant and 2 masked gunmen comes in to rob the place? Do I really believe they are only going to use their gun to protect themselves? No I don't. I don't know them-that's the scary part! Most of these folks I believe have a "hero" complex when it comes to their guns. Like I said above the last thing I want to see is a crossfire of bullets with this concealed weapon carrier "helping out". If you aren't trained for these situations like the police force is, you have no idea how to do what you need to do. In most cases you would do much more harm than good. That is what I believe. Of course the gun advocates will jump in and say differently. You asked what the "big deal" deal was. It's safety. From the above situation, to the gun going off accidentally and shooting someone the issue is safety. Personally I have to wonder what you gun advocates are so darn afraid of that you feel the need to carry your guns everywhere (including an IHOP?)? Geez, can you spell paranoid? I would hate to live with that much fear. Debbie in MD. When you can't open or conceal carry - that is denying a right to BEAR arms. If you don't want a gun, don't have one. You won't prevent me from having one just because YOU are uncomfortable with it. Frankly, your comfort level means nothing to me if I have to give up my right to defend myself. You'll just have to get over it. 2A is here to stay. I don't budge on this. Ever. I don't believe this will stand.
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Rainbow
Pearl Clutcher
Where salt is in the air and sand is at my feet...
Posts: 4,103
Jun 26, 2014 5:57:41 GMT
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Post by Rainbow on Jun 10, 2016 0:09:33 GMT
You may be willing to wait until the police get there but others don't want to have to do that. You could be dead by then, along with a lot of others. Then don't move to Maryland-because that's the law as we have it here. It's wonderful going into a restaurant or going shopping knowing no one is conceal carrying, unless they've met the very strict criteria for it. It's very peaceful and I love it here. Debbie in MD. It's very peaceful conceal carrying as well. That is the point of it. Nobody knows, nobody gets upset.
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Post by birukitty on Jun 10, 2016 0:19:09 GMT
I don't want every Tom, Dick and Harry carrying a concealed weapon into a store or restaurant where I shop or eat. The surprising thing is how many people are carrying around you and you don't know. Its way more than you think. They aren't flashing them around and acting all crazy with them. You are right that you don't know what kind of training they have, but why assume they have minimum training. Most of the concealed carry permit holders I know train often, keep up their skills etc. You would be shocked at how many police officers do not shoot regularly once they have passed their yearly qualification. You would be surprised to know how many actually fail their qualifications as well. Used to drive my husband batty. So while you are waiting for the trained officers to show up, you can't be 100% for certain that they have the skills you need them to have. Any more than you can be 100% certain that the concealed permit carrier in your midst isn't up to date on his/her skills. If I were in a crowded place and two robbers showed up, they can have what ever they want. Even off duty officers are taught not to shoot in that circumstance. Why is it always a crowded place that is the example always given? When was the last time a concealed weapons holder got involved in a crossfire incident between police and bad guys? How many of those incidents have occurred in the last 5 years? I would be more concerned about a stray bullets which happens with police, violent gun crimes, etc. I carry when allowed. I am not afraid. I am not paranoid (well except of spiders....) Just because you can't understand why I feel it important to carry doesn't make me afraid or paranoid....It just means I have a different point of view No, there are not many people around me carrying that I don't know. I live in Maryland. The law here is very strict for conceal carry. Basically you cannot conceal carry unless you have a very good reason to do so. Maryland is a "may issue" state. Applicants must issue a good and substantial reason to carry a handgun. Permits are normally very difficult, but not impossible for ordinary citizens to obtain. We here in this state are different from other states in the USA. The problem with your analogy of training and skill of concealed carrier vs. the police force is that the training and skill required to obtain the concealed carry licence in various states vary greatly. I'd rather take my chances with trained police officers. That's my right and I have a right to my feelings. Fine, you are not afraid or paranoid. Excuse me for thinking you were. I just can't wrap my brain around why someone feels the need to carry around a gun "for protection" if they aren't afraid. Can you enlighten me why you carry it then? I don't feel the need to leave my house with a knife every time I go out shopping so really, I'm not being mean, I'm seriously asking. Why do you carry a gun when you go out shopping? Do you carry it to a restaurant? Debbie in MD.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Apr 29, 2024 3:10:38 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2016 0:22:07 GMT
Debbie, in one post you claim someone who carries is paranoid. Then in the next you state how wonderful it is to eat in a restaurant without worrying that someone could have a gun under his jacket. I'd think that worrying about someone who took a class and obtained a concealed carry permit is far more paranoid than worrying about criminals that mean to do harm. You are asking Debbie or any of us to "trust" the person with a concealed gun. To assume they took the necessary classes and to assume the person is not some sort of whack job. Trust someone we don't know sitting across the table with a gun. An item that was invented for one purpose which is to kill. Personally I don't think that is very prudent.
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Post by birukitty on Jun 10, 2016 0:24:09 GMT
Debbie, in one post you claim someone who carries is paranoid. Then in the next you state how wonderful it is to eat in a restaurant without worrying that someone could have a gun under his jacket. I'd think that worrying about someone who took a class and obtained a concealed carry permit is far more paranoid than worrying about criminals that mean to do harm. I don't worry about people who conceal carry because there are barely any here in Maryland. That's what's so wonderful about living here. I do see your point though. You think I'm paranoid because I worry about the conceal carriers more than the criminals. I never said that. I do worry about the conceal carriers. We aren't used to them here. And I went too far calling everyone who carries "paranoid". I'm sorry about that. Debbie in MD.
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Post by Merge on Jun 10, 2016 0:26:28 GMT
If I were in a crowded place and two robbers showed up, they can have what ever they want. Even off duty officers are taught not to shoot in that circumstance. Why is it always a crowded place that is the example always given? When was the last time a concealed weapons holder got involved in a crossfire incident between police and bad guys? It happened here in Houston a couple of weeks ago - we had a guy (not just any guy: a veteran who owned his weapons legally and was trained to use them) go crazy and start firing at people in public on a Sunday morning, and a concealed weapons holder pulled out his weapon to try to take him down. He ended up getting shot by the police when they arrived, because they had no way of telling the good guy with the gun from the bad guy with the gun. He's just lucky they didn't kill him, because they killed the bad guy. Numerous studies show that you are not safer with a gun in your possession. You are, in fact, more likely to be injured or killed by a gun (yours or someone else's) if you own one than if you don't. You're also more likely to be injured or killed by your own gun than to ever use to to protect yourself from someone else. But hey, if you want to take that risk, current interpretation of the 2nd amendment says it's your right. So have at it. I will remain safely unarmed, thank you.
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Post by dulcemama on Jun 10, 2016 0:27:59 GMT
Maybe instead of trying to get caught up in a battle over concealed or open carry, or using this as a means to try and strike down the ability for the average joe to carry, maybe the Democrats could come up with some common sense regulations designed to make it harder for stupid, crazy, or violent people to own guns? That and legal repercussions for gun owners who are careless with their weapons. How many more times do we have to hear about a child getting their hands on a loaded gun or someone being accidentally shot because the person handling a gun didn't know it was loaded? this kind of carelessness needs to be prosecuted.
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Post by refugeepea on Jun 10, 2016 0:31:56 GMT
Numerous studies show that you are not safer with a gun in your possession. You are, in fact, more likely to be injured or killed by a gun (yours or someone else's) if you own one than if you don't. I do agree with this, but what truly bothers me is the actions of a few is considered to be how all concealed weapon holders behave. I have family members with permits. They aren't hot headed. They aren't stupid, paranoid, and they don't have a complex. They own other guns, NOT to always kill. They do target practice and yes they do kill animals because they have obtained a license to do so. I'm all for passing legislation, but when you hear comments like this, all civil discussion shuts down.
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Post by Merge on Jun 10, 2016 0:40:26 GMT
Numerous studies show that you are not safer with a gun in your possession. You are, in fact, more likely to be injured or killed by a gun (yours or someone else's) if you own one than if you don't. I do agree with this, but what truly bothers me is the actions of a few is considered to be how all concealed weapon holders behave. I have family members with permits. They aren't hot headed. They aren't stupid, paranoid, and they don't have a complex. They own other guns, NOT to always kill. They do target practice and yes they do kill animals because they have obtained a license to do so. I'm all for passing legislation, but when you hear comments like this, all civil discussion shuts down. I'm not sure how citing the results of studies shuts down civil discussion.
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scrappinspidey2
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,511
Location: In the Parlor with the Fly
Mar 18, 2015 19:19:37 GMT
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Post by scrappinspidey2 on Jun 10, 2016 0:48:57 GMT
No, there are not many people around me carrying that I don't know. I live in Maryland. The law here is very strict for conceal carry. Basically you cannot conceal carry unless you have a very good reason to do so. Maryland is a "may issue" state. Applicants must issue a good and substantial reason to carry a handgun. Permits are normally very difficult, but not impossible for ordinary citizens to obtain. We here in this state are different from other states in the USA. The problem with your analogy of training and skill of concealed carrier vs. the police force is that the training and skill required to obtain the concealed carry licence in various states vary greatly. I'd rather take my chances with trained police officers. That's my right and I have a right to my feelings. Fine, you are not afraid or paranoid. Excuse me for thinking you were. I just can't wrap my brain around why someone feels the need to carry around a gun "for protection" if they aren't afraid. Can you enlighten me why you carry it then? I don't feel the need to leave my house with a knife every time I go out shopping so really, I'm not being mean, I'm seriously asking. Why do you carry a gun when you go out shopping? Do you carry it to a restaurant? Do you not travel outside of Maryland? Again no snark intended...just want to make sure that is coming across If you do travel outside, do you look at the number of carry concealed permits in that area before going? I think you don't understand that I was married to a cop for 15+ years. I also have very dear friends in other states who are in law enforcement. This is an issue that is discussed all the time (cops training with firearms and the need for better training, more often). There are many concealed carry permit holders out there who are more trained and a better shot than officers on duty. Sure there are permit holders who aren't. But my point was you can't just assume because they are an officer that they are trained any more or any less than a permit holder in general. Again you would be surprised at the number of officers who can't qualify with their weapons without serious help every year. How many times has the news done stories where even stray bullets from officers have injured or hurt someone, or even better, officers firing multiple rounds and missing. (note: I am not a fan of the press at all and don't believe most of what they write, but I have known incidents where this has occurred) You do have a right to your feelings, as do I. I love law enforcement. Im almost obsessed It sucks that I have to point out their flaws but hey, they are human and as such are flawed. Every cop I know, can point out people in their department that should have more training with a firearm. Many of those officers do not do additional range time, do not take their weapons home, do not take additional firearms courses etc. You can't wrap your head around why I carry and I don't understand the fear I get from you in regards to carrying. I won't elaborate on my reasons for carrying because they are not necessary. You won't understand them anyway and it won't make you change your mind. I have never asked you why you don't carry. I don't care. All I care is that it is your right not to carry and I support that for you. I do have a right to carry and that is enough for me. I do leave the house with a knife. I have a knife in every purse. Not so much for protection but that they come in handy for a lot of things lol. I always joke I was a boy scout "always prepared". I honestly don't always carry a gun either. My choices are dependent on many things and there is no one size fits all answer for why i do what I do. Drove hubby bonkers too
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scrappinspidey2
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,511
Location: In the Parlor with the Fly
Mar 18, 2015 19:19:37 GMT
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Post by scrappinspidey2 on Jun 10, 2016 0:57:46 GMT
Merge thank you for sharing that. I had not heard of any incidents like that which is why I asked. So I do appreciate having someone find one. Im curious how many more are out there. As for the studies, i don't know. Yes they are out there. There are others that say its not quite that way. I swear studies can say whatever you want if you are paying for it. But that is just my thoughts. I struggle with studies and statistics because when I research things (Not necessarily guns, more of my nursing school research) studies contradict each other frequently. I will admit that I have not researched this particular topic regarding what you quoted and I in no way consider my self an expert on the matter. That and legal repercussions for gun owners who are careless with their weapons. How many more times do we have to hear about a child getting their hands on a loaded gun or someone being accidentally shot because the person handling a gun didn't know it was loaded? this kind of carelessness needs to be prosecuted. I have a different mindset. I feel that we as a country do not value children in general. Not just gun related. I posted on it before, but I still stand by it. We treat people who are neglectful of animals worse than we treat people who are neglectful of children (which leaving a loaded weapon around for children to find is a form of neglect in my opinion). Until we start treating ALL neglectful incidents involving children more seriously, nothing will move on that front. But that might be a whole different thread lol.
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Post by 950nancy on Jun 10, 2016 1:09:13 GMT
But then you miss out on the fun guy at the gas station wearing pearl handled revolvers in old western holsters actually happened in AZ lol. He was a daily customer so I would see him once a week when I filled up with gas lol. I don't think this will be upheld because you run into severe constitutional issues. It says right to keep and bear arms. If you take away concealed, you only leave open carry. But I guess the point of the OP is that this could be the way to strike down the ability for the average joe to carry period. Im just guessing though, I could be wrong. Yep, they want to take away our right to carry at all. With or without it I'll have a weapon. Always.I was raised with guns and we have several. I am a registered republican and have never ever felt that gun laws would take away my right to own a gun. I personally would like to see gun control though. I cannot for the life of me see why regular citizens needs to own automatic weapons. I haven't heard any candidate say they want to take away the right to own a gun.
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Post by birukitty on Jun 10, 2016 1:28:02 GMT
No, there are not many people around me carrying that I don't know. I live in Maryland. The law here is very strict for conceal carry. Basically you cannot conceal carry unless you have a very good reason to do so. Maryland is a "may issue" state. Applicants must issue a good and substantial reason to carry a handgun. Permits are normally very difficult, but not impossible for ordinary citizens to obtain. We here in this state are different from other states in the USA. The problem with your analogy of training and skill of concealed carrier vs. the police force is that the training and skill required to obtain the concealed carry licence in various states vary greatly. I'd rather take my chances with trained police officers. That's my right and I have a right to my feelings. Fine, you are not afraid or paranoid. Excuse me for thinking you were. I just can't wrap my brain around why someone feels the need to carry around a gun "for protection" if they aren't afraid. Can you enlighten me why you carry it then? I don't feel the need to leave my house with a knife every time I go out shopping so really, I'm not being mean, I'm seriously asking. Why do you carry a gun when you go out shopping? Do you carry it to a restaurant? Do you not travel outside of Maryland? Again no snark intended...just want to make sure that is coming across If you do travel outside, do you look at the number of carry concealed permits in that area before going? I think you don't understand that I was married to a cop for 15+ years. I also have very dear friends in other states who are in law enforcement. This is an issue that is discussed all the time (cops training with firearms and the need for better training, more often). There are many concealed carry permit holders out there who are more trained and a better shot than officers on duty. Sure there are permit holders who aren't. But my point was you can't just assume because they are an officer that they are trained any more or any less than a permit holder in general. Again you would be surprised at the number of officers who can't qualify with their weapons without serious help every year. How many times has the news done stories where even stray bullets from officers have injured or hurt someone, or even better, officers firing multiple rounds and missing. (note: I am not a fan of the press at all and don't believe most of what they write, but I have known incidents where this has occurred) You do have a right to your feelings, as do I. I love law enforcement. Im almost obsessed It sucks that I have to point out their flaws but hey, they are human and as such are flawed. Every cop I know, can point out people in their department that should have more training with a firearm. Many of those officers do not do additional range time, do not take their weapons home, do not take additional firearms courses etc. You can't wrap your head around why I carry and I don't understand the fear I get from you in regards to carrying. I won't elaborate on my reasons for carrying because they are not necessary. You won't understand them anyway and it won't make you change your mind. I have never asked you why you don't carry. I don't care. All I care is that it is your right not to carry and I support that for you. I do have a right to carry and that is enough for me. I do leave the house with a knife. I have a knife in every purse. Not so much for protection but that they come in handy for a lot of things lol. I always joke I was a boy scout "always prepared". I honestly don't always carry a gun either. My choices are dependent on many things and there is no one size fits all answer for why i do what I do. Drove hubby bonkers too Yes I travel outside Maryland. But 99% of the time it is internationally. When I travel internationally I don't have to worry about gun control, or rather lack there of. The places I travel to-usually Europe, sometimes Japan almost always have more sane laws than we do regarding gun control. I asked you why you carry and you won't even give me one straight answer. I asked nicely, honestly and in a straight forward manner. I really wanted to know. I still want to know. How do you know I won't understand them? Yes, you are right, they won't make me change my mind, but at least I'd like to know what they are. This forum is for discussing issues and how can we have an open dialogue when you refuse to answer a question? But okay. If that's how you want to respond. So you carry a knife everywhere you go (well at least in every purse) and sometimes a knife and a gun? Wow-that's a lot of weight to carry. I always carry a journal to write down thoughts and things to remember. Funny, isn't it? The difference. I carry pen and paper and you carry a knife and a gun. Debbie in MD.
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Peamac
Pearl Clutcher
Refupea # 418
Posts: 4,218
Jun 26, 2014 0:09:18 GMT
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Post by Peamac on Jun 10, 2016 1:39:34 GMT
I'll let my new son-in-law know- he wore one of his guns to IHOP yesterday for breakfast. I have to ask why? What is so dangerous about pancakes and waffles that he needed to go in armed? I wondered too. DH thinks that DSIL took it along because that's what he's used to doing. His dad always carries, so he does too. His family has several rifles also, since they are farmers and have trouble with coyotes attacking their sheep. And for the record, DSIL graduated with a degree in criminal justice and will start law school in the fall. He hunts often, is a great shot, and is both sane and responsible.
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scrappinspidey2
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,511
Location: In the Parlor with the Fly
Mar 18, 2015 19:19:37 GMT
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Post by scrappinspidey2 on Jun 10, 2016 1:41:14 GMT
I asked you why you carry and you won't even give me one straight answer. I asked nicely, honestly and in a straight forward manner. I really wanted to know. I still want to know. How do you know I won't understand them? Yes, you are right, they won't make me change my mind, but at least I'd like to know what they are. This forum is for discussing issues and how can we have an open dialogue when you refuse to answer a question? But okay. If that's how you want to respond. So you carry a knife everywhere you go (well at least in every purse) and sometimes a knife and a gun? Wow-that's a lot of weight to carry. I always carry a journal to write down thoughts and things to remember. Funny, isn't it? The difference. I carry pen and paper and you carry a knife and a gun. Honestly with this last post I don't think you want the conversation. You just want to be right and frame me in a way that looks bad because I have a different opinion. How do I think that? You took an honest statement about me carrying a knife and why I carry them and then turned it into a you against me because you carry a pen and paper and I have a knife and gun. And you expect me to take you seriously now? For what its worth I always have a pen and notebook with me. I always have a knife with me. I don't always have a gun. I haven't made snarky comments as you have. So no I will not be discussing my personal reasons for carrying a gun with you at this time. If you can't understand why a knife is handy enough to be carried by a women, (because many many many men carry them daily without anyone blinking an eyeball) then you won't understand any reason i give for carrying a gun. I didn't go negative on you for your choices not to carry. I pointed out a scenario about law enforcement might not being as trained as you thought. I admitted that you do have a point with the fact that some concealed carry permit holders aren't exactly well trained either. I support your right not to carry. I didn't make fun of you for not having a knife handy. Yet it was okay for you to do so to me. I asked about travel because I haven't met anyone that stays in one single state all the time. So before I took my other argument further I wanted to make sure you weren't someone who actually only stays in the one state.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Apr 29, 2024 3:10:38 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2016 1:42:40 GMT
I have to ask why? What is so dangerous about pancakes and waffles that he needed to go in armed? I wondered too. DH thinks that DSIL took it along because that's what he's used to doing. His dad always carries, so he does too. His family has several rifles also, since they are farmers and have trouble with coyotes attacking their sheep. And for the record, DSIL graduated with a degree in criminal justice and will start law school in the fall. He hunts often, is a great shot, and is both sane and responsible. I've yet to be in an IHOP that has a coyote problem. I really don't see the need to run around armed at all time.
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