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Post by freecharlie on Jun 10, 2016 2:04:19 GMT
Yep, they want to take away our right to carry at all. With or without it I'll have a weapon. Always. I was raised with guns and we have several. I am a registered republican and have never ever felt that gun laws would take away my right to own a gun. I personally would like to see gun control though. I cannot for the life of me see why regular citizens needs to own automatic weapons. I haven't heard any candidate say they want to take away the right to own a gun. first, an automatic weapon fires multiple times without pressing the trigger again. Those weapons are highly regulated in the US. A semiautomatic is a gun that automatically chambers the next bullet, but the trigger has to be pressed again. The problem with people fighting against semi-automatics is that they aren't all the "assault rifles" people think they are. Our .22 rifles are semi-automatic. They would not be a weapon of choice in mass shooting, but because of the soft recoil, light weight body, and ease of shooting are great for our kids to learn to shoot with. Our handgun is also a .22 semi automatic. If, for some reason, I was in a situation to use it, I would probably empty the clip. I don't want to have to reload or even recock to shoot.
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Post by 950nancy on Jun 10, 2016 2:12:50 GMT
They'll still carry, but it will be open carry instead of concealed. This law won't do anything except scare the flaky people. Open carry is not legal around here, so no they would not be open carrying. I think it is. Either that or I have just happened to have seen several ladies breaking the law in the last few weeks.
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Post by freecharlie on Jun 10, 2016 2:15:03 GMT
Open carry is not legal around here, so no they would not be open carrying. I think it is. Either that or I have just happened to have seen several ladies breaking the law in the last few weeks. My town it isn't. I know there are places in Colorado that allow it. Your area probably does Hmmm...I just looked it up. Only Denver has a blanket ban. I guess people around here just don't open carry very much.
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Post by birukitty on Jun 10, 2016 2:16:57 GMT
I asked you why you carry and you won't even give me one straight answer. I asked nicely, honestly and in a straight forward manner. I really wanted to know. I still want to know. How do you know I won't understand them? Yes, you are right, they won't make me change my mind, but at least I'd like to know what they are. This forum is for discussing issues and how can we have an open dialogue when you refuse to answer a question? But okay. If that's how you want to respond. So you carry a knife everywhere you go (well at least in every purse) and sometimes a knife and a gun? Wow-that's a lot of weight to carry. I always carry a journal to write down thoughts and things to remember. Funny, isn't it? The difference. I carry pen and paper and you carry a knife and a gun. Honestly with this last post I don't think you want the conversation. You just want to be right and frame me in a way that looks bad because I have a different opinion. How do I think that? You took an honest statement about me carrying a knife and why I carry them and then turned it into a you against me because you carry a pen and paper and I have a knife and gun. And you expect me to take you seriously now? For what its worth I always have a pen and notebook with me. I always have a knife with me. I don't always have a gun. I haven't made snarky comments as you have. So no I will not be discussing my personal reasons for carrying a gun with you at this time. If you can't understand why a knife is handy enough to be carried by a women, (because many many many men carry them daily without anyone blinking an eyeball) then you won't understand any reason i give for carrying a gun. I didn't go negative on you for your choices not to carry. I pointed out a scenario about law enforcement might not being as trained as you thought. I admitted that you do have a point with the fact that some concealed carry permit holders aren't exactly well trained either. I support your right not to carry. I didn't make fun of you for not having a knife handy. Yet it was okay for you to do so to me. I asked about travel because I haven't met anyone that stays in one single state all the time. So before I took my other argument further I wanted to make sure you weren't someone who actually only stays in the one state. Once again you refuse to answer my question. You've decided I don't want a conversation. You're wrong. I do want one. Otherwise I wouldn't be on here asking you more that once why you carry these items with you-a knife and a gun. You've told me now that you find a knife very handy to carry around. Okay I get that. I don't understand it but I get it-our lives are completely different and in my lifestyle I don't see a need for a knife except in my kitchen. If you find one handy for many reasons to carry around with you okay. I guess to you it's like what a guy uses a pocket knife for. Maybe your life is a lot more rugged than mine. What state do you live in by the way or do you mind my asking you that too? Maybe your lifestyle is more ranch, farmlike whereas here I live in the city of Annapolis, MD which is a very small historical tourist city where sailing is HUGE! I never said I stayed in one state all of the time. I was an army brat for most of my life-I wasn't even born in this country. Like I said I do travel but most of the time it is internationally. I was born in Germany to a German mother and an American father. My grandmother lived in Germany her entire life so I traveled a lot there while she was still alive. I rarely travel in the USA. When I take a vacation I like to travel internationally. Debbie in MD.
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Post by 950nancy on Jun 10, 2016 2:17:20 GMT
I was raised with guns and we have several. I am a registered republican and have never ever felt that gun laws would take away my right to own a gun. I personally would like to see gun control though. I cannot for the life of me see why regular citizens needs to own automatic weapons. I haven't heard any candidate say they want to take away the right to own a gun. first, an automatic weapon fires multiple times without pressing the trigger again. Those weapons are highly regulated in the US. A semiautomatic is a gun that automatically chambers the next bullet, but the trigger has to be pressed again. The problem with people fighting against semi-automatics is that they aren't all the "assault rifles" people think they are. Our .22 rifles are semi-automatic. They would not be a weapon of choice in mass shooting, but because of the soft recoil, light weight body, and ease of shooting are great for our kids to learn to shoot with. Our handgun is also a .22 semi automatic. If, for some reason, I was in a situation to use it, I would probably empty the clip. I don't want to have to reload or even recock to shoot. I have a friend who owns several hundred guns. He is a collector and shooter and responsible. I used the wrong term. I see no need for him to own a gun that can do what a machine gun can do. Even if he is responsible. He says it is the law so it makes it okay. He is correct that it is the law, but there are a lot of laws that need to change or have been changed in the 100 years.
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Post by freecharlie on Jun 10, 2016 2:23:37 GMT
I see no need for him to own a gun that can do what a machine gun can do. Automatic weapons like machine guns and those who dispense bullets without pressing the trigger again are heavily regulated. They must be registered and in order to transfer ownership there is a bunch of red tape and money involved. There may be no new guns of that type sold since the 60s (maybe 70s), There are some out there and they are owned by collectors, so your friend may have one. You've told me now that you find a knife very handy to carry around. Okay I get that. I don't understand it but I get it-our lives are completely different and in my lifestyle I don't see a need for a knife except in my kitchen. If you find one handy for many reasons to carry around with you okay. I guess to you it's like what a guy uses a pocket knife for. I know lots of people who carry a pocket knife all the time. I'm not sure why she shouldn't carry one because she is female.
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scrappinspidey2
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,511
Location: In the Parlor with the Fly
Mar 18, 2015 19:19:37 GMT
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Post by scrappinspidey2 on Jun 10, 2016 2:28:51 GMT
You didn't ask me why I carried a knife. I volunteered that information along with a reason. Your response to that information gave me all I needed to know about how you would react to my reasons for carrying. I have a long standing policy not to discuss my very personal reasons for carrying a gun. In fact history on this board will show I rarely get involved in these discussions because typically they end just like this. I have no clue what possessed me to enter into this one.
I live in near a major metropolitan city. I do not live in a rural area anymore. I spent most of my adult life in major metropolitan areas. I have lived in AZ, CA and MO. I used to camp and fish quite often, but have found a knife handy in every day life more than the camping and fishing needs. I guess I lean more towards a pocket knife than a pair of scissors? I don't know. I didn't realize when I made my comment that knifes were on the same level as carrying a gun for some. My mistake.
Since you don't travel much in the US outside of MD, my other argument doesn't hold well for your experiences. Any time you are in another state, you are probably around more carried concealed permit holders than you would think. But you don't travel so it doesn't work that way for you.
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Post by ilovelucydog on Jun 10, 2016 3:07:41 GMT
Ok, so I have a question about concealed carry. How exactly is concealed carry regulated? In my state, the person takes a class. It takes a few hours and I'm assuming a test, and then you have a concealed carry permit. This is where my question begins..... then what? Here's the perfect example... My BFF has a concealed weapons permit. She owns a handgun. She is the last freaking person in the world who should be carrying a concealed weapon. She's emotional, over-reacts, and takes LOADS of RX pain meds. She doesn't practice shooting. I wouldn't want her taking her gun out around me. I would feel better knowing that concealed weapons carriers were stable people who can accurately use their weapon. I like the idea that there are potentially people around me carrying concelaed who can actually help in a situation, but how many people are like my BFF. How can that be regulated or is it and I just don't know about it???
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Post by freecharlie on Jun 10, 2016 3:11:22 GMT
Ok, so I have a question about concealed carry. How exactly is concealed carry regulated? In my state, the person takes a class. It takes a few hours and I'm assuming a test, and then you have a concealed carry permit. This is where my question begins..... then what? Here's the perfect example... My BFF has a concealed weapons permit. She owns a handgun. She is the last freaking person in the world who should be carrying a concealed weapon. She's emotional, over-reacts, and takes LOADS of RX pain meds. She doesn't practice shooting. I wouldn't want her taking her gun out around me. I would feel better knowing that concealed weapons carriers were stable people who can accurately use their weapon. I like the idea that there are potentially people around me carrying concelaed who can actually help in a situation, but how many people are like my BFF. How can that be regulated or is it and I just don't know about it??? It is not regulated here in Colorado. You take the class, pass the test, pay the money and have your permit. It takes about 8 hours I think (I don't have a permit as I don't want to carry) I do know quite a few people who have their permit, but don't carry. Maybe she is one of them.
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Post by 950nancy on Jun 10, 2016 3:39:03 GMT
I see no need for him to own a gun that can do what a machine gun can do. Automatic weapons like machine guns and those who dispense bullets without pressing the trigger again are heavily regulated. They must be registered and in order to transfer ownership there is a bunch of red tape and money involved. There may be no new guns of that type sold since the 60s (maybe 70s), There are some out there and they are owned by collectors, so your friend may have one. You've told me now that you find a knife very handy to carry around. Okay I get that. I don't understand it but I get it-our lives are completely different and in my lifestyle I don't see a need for a knife except in my kitchen. If you find one handy for many reasons to carry around with you okay. I guess to you it's like what a guy uses a pocket knife for. I know lots of people who carry a pocket knife all the time. I'm not sure why she shouldn't carry one because she is female. He has a gun safe built into his new house. It is the size of a bedroom. It is cement. He has every gun (legally) that I can imagine.
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Post by joylynaroundthebnd on Jun 10, 2016 4:03:47 GMT
I am in Texas, and while my instructor may not be the norm, he talked at length about how pulling your weapon should be a last resort, be ready to shoot decision. I agree that someone seeing a gun could escalate the situation. He discussed how to diffuse situations without using your weapon. But, there will be instances where self defense with a weapon is a good idea.
I am truly happy for those of you who can go to IHOP or anywhere else and feel completely and totally safe. It is not the case everywhere and to judge my world based on yours is not, IMO, a good argument. I don't think less of those who choose not to carry. I have lived in places where I did not feel the need to carry a weapon. That is not the case now and at the moment moving is not an option.
My point of view is that the weapons are already out there. The discussion about which ones should or should not be allowed is a waste of time. You can have all the laws on the books you want, it will not change the fact that criminals will always have weapons. It will not reduce gun related crimes.
There are laws against drinking and driving, there are still drunk driving related deaths. There are laws that classify certain drugs as illegal. They are still being sold and used. Laws do not necessarily fix the problem. It is even more difficult to purchase products that can be used to make these drugs. This has not been a fix for the situation.
I wish we lived in a world where human life is respected, people did not feel the need to drink to excess and people were confident in themselves and tried to help their neighbors. But, that is not likely to happen, at least not world wide.
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Post by 950nancy on Jun 10, 2016 4:37:27 GMT
I am in Texas, and while my instructor may not be the norm, he talked at length about how pulling your weapon should be a last resort, be ready to shoot decision. I agree that someone seeing a gun could escalate the situation. He discussed how to diffuse situations without using your weapon. But, there will be instances where self defense with a weapon is a good idea. I am truly happy for those of you who can go to IHOP or anywhere else and feel completely and totally safe. It is not the case everywhere and to judge my world based on yours is not, IMO, a good argument. I don't think less of those who choose not to carry. I have lived in places where I did not feel the need to carry a weapon. That is not the case now and at the moment moving is not an option. My point of view is that the weapons are already out there. The discussion about which ones should or should not be allowed is a waste of time. You can have all the laws on the books you want, it will not change the fact that criminals will always have weapons. It will not reduce gun related crimes. There are laws against drinking and driving, there are still drunk driving related deaths. There are laws that classify certain drugs as illegal. They are still being sold and used. Laws do not necessarily fix the problem. It is even more difficult to purchase products that can be used to make these drugs. This has not been a fix for the situation. I wish we lived in a world where human life is respected, people did not feel the need to drink to excess and people were confident in themselves and tried to help their neighbors. But, that is not likely to happen, at least not world wide. I think there would be even more drunk driving deaths if there were fewer laws about drinking and driving. My views on guns (I think) are pretty middle of the road. My feeling of strengthening the gun control laws comes from one situation. The day of the Sandy Hook shootings I sat in the hospital waiting room for hours and sat numb watching the trauma play out. My son had been in a bad auto accident that morning and perhaps his trauma transferred to me more acutely than it did some people. I felt what those parents were feeling. My son was alive, and many of theirs weren't, but the pain of not knowing is awful. Certainly something needs to change so guns are not as available for people who should not have them. Gun control will never ever get rid of the problem entirely, but what if it saves your child's life? Children are like sitting targets at school. People who want to get the most exposure for their killings often target school children to get the most notoriety. I don't know that putting guns in the hands of teachers is the best idea. Oftentimes there are a lot high flying tempers at schools with angry parents/teachers and the fewer guns in that situation the better. Schools simply cannot afford to staff every school with the protection they need. I don't the answer, but I believe there needs to be some give and take on both sides.
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Deleted
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Apr 29, 2024 1:39:17 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2016 6:42:23 GMT
But, there will be instances where self defense with a weapon is a good idea. My point of view is that the weapons are already out there. The discussion about which ones should or should not be allowed is a waste of time. You can have all the laws on the books you want, it will not change the fact that criminals will always have weapons. It will not reduce gun related crimes. The tale of the pool of stupid gun owners by me! First the vast majority of citizens of this country will never ever be in a position where " self defense with a weapon is a good idea". Anyone who thinks otherwise is buying into the garbage put out by the NRA. Some folks have an actual use or need for guns like hunters, folks who live in the boonies with wild animals and need the protection, occupations that require the guns for protection either for themselves or others in their charge. However the vast majority of gun owners do not have a creditable threat to themselves, their family members, or their livestock. Their reasons for owning guns are "just in case" and "what if" the two worse reasons for owning a gun. If the truth be told for this group of gun owners if they locked their guns up in a safe today they would never have a need to take the gun out of the safe for the rest of their lives. Unfortunately some of these guns owners don't have the sense to take proper care of their guns and as such some of these "responsible gun owners" expand the pool of stupid gun owners. This pool of stupid gun owners are responsible directly or indirectly for the deaths of 33,000 people a year. The more guns out there the larger the pool of stupid gun owners becomes. And the greater risk the safety to the citizens of this country. Less stupid gun owners the safer this country becomes. Second. Where do you think criminals get their guns from? Where do you think gangs get their guns from? I will tell you. A large % comes from the pool of stupid gun owners. Less guns out their from the pool of the stupid gun owners less guns for criminals and gangs. And we will all be safer. And it's not a waste of time to discuss the negative affect guns have on the general population. Not ever.
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Post by anxiousmom on Jun 10, 2016 12:14:46 GMT
You didn't ask me why I carried a knife. I volunteered that information along with a reason. Your response to that information gave me all I needed to know about how you would react to my reasons for carrying. I have a long standing policy not to discuss my very personal reasons for carrying a gun. In fact history on this board will show I rarely get involved in these discussions because typically they end just like this. I have no clue what possessed me to enter into this one. I live in near a major metropolitan city. I do not live in a rural area anymore. I spent most of my adult life in major metropolitan areas. I have lived in AZ, CA and MO. I used to camp and fish quite often, but have found a knife handy in every day life more than the camping and fishing needs. I guess I lean more towards a pocket knife than a pair of scissors? I don't know. I didn't realize when I made my comment that knifes were on the same level as carrying a gun for some. My mistake. Since you don't travel much in the US outside of MD, my other argument doesn't hold well for your experiences. Any time you are in another state, you are probably around more carried concealed permit holders than you would think. But you don't travel so it doesn't work that way for you. I cart around a swiss army knife in my purse. It has all kinds of gizmos and whatnots that are pretty handy. I will also admit that I have my eye on a pretty fancy Leatherman's Tool that makes me get a bit weak in the knees. Both of my boys were given pocket knives as kids-kind of a right of passage (or maybe the redneck roots eek out at the strangest times) and were told that a man should always have a knife. I suppose on some level I could use the knife in self-defense. Or the cork screw. It is perfectly spaced to wrap your hand around it and stab at stuff. The toothpick, not so much.
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Rainbow
Pearl Clutcher
Where salt is in the air and sand is at my feet...
Posts: 4,103
Jun 26, 2014 5:57:41 GMT
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Post by Rainbow on Jun 10, 2016 12:34:54 GMT
Yep, they want to take away our right to carry at all. With or without it I'll have a weapon. Always. I was raised with guns and we have several. I am a registered republican and have never ever felt that gun laws would take away my right to own a gun. I personally would like to see gun control though. I cannot for the life of me see why regular citizens needs to own automatic weapons. I haven't heard any candidate say they want to take away the right to own a gun. They won't be stupid enough to tell you outright. They'll attempt it slowly hoping you won't notice.
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Post by refugeepea on Jun 10, 2016 12:43:31 GMT
I do agree with this, but what truly bothers me is the actions of a few is considered to be how all concealed weapon holders behave. I have family members with permits. They aren't hot headed. They aren't stupid, paranoid, and they don't have a complex. They own other guns, NOT to always kill. They do target practice and yes they do kill animals because they have obtained a license to do so. I'm all for passing legislation, but when you hear comments like this, all civil discussion shuts down. I'm not sure how citing the results of studies shuts down civil discussion. That is what I was talking about. Not the results of the study.
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Rainbow
Pearl Clutcher
Where salt is in the air and sand is at my feet...
Posts: 4,103
Jun 26, 2014 5:57:41 GMT
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Post by Rainbow on Jun 10, 2016 12:50:17 GMT
I will also admit that I have my eye on a pretty fancy Leatherman's Tool that makes me get a bit weak in the knees. This made me laugh. I love your sense of humor.
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Rainbow
Pearl Clutcher
Where salt is in the air and sand is at my feet...
Posts: 4,103
Jun 26, 2014 5:57:41 GMT
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Post by Rainbow on Jun 10, 2016 12:59:36 GMT
I just want to apologize for my off-putting and over zealous manner in this thread. Some issues really trigger me and I'm trying to rein it in a bit. The importance of this issue is major to me and a lot of other people, here and elsewhere. I wish I had a mild manner, like my friend Kimberly Dobbs. I miss her so much.
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~Lauren~
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,876
Jun 26, 2014 3:33:18 GMT
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Post by ~Lauren~ on Jun 10, 2016 13:06:52 GMT
The 9th Circuit is probably the most far left Circuit court in the country. Based, where else, but in California.
Not surprised and in the end, not sure that it will hold up if scrutinized by the court of appeals.
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Post by refugeepea on Jun 10, 2016 13:13:44 GMT
The vast majority of gun owners I know do not own a gun for "just in case" or "what if". They do own them for various reasons. They hunt, they may be military or law enforcement, or they enjoy target shooting as a hobby. They have no intention of killing people and they certainly aren't stupid, stupid, stupid.
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Post by Merge on Jun 10, 2016 15:12:17 GMT
I just want to apologize for my off-putting and over zealous manner in this thread. Some issues really trigger me and I'm trying to rein it in a bit. The importance of this issue is major to me and a lot of other people, here and elsewhere. I wish I had a mild manner, like my friend Kimberly Dobbs. I miss her so much. I'm sure you won't be offended if I tell you that my jaw dropped a foot when I read this. Go you. And I mean that in all sincerity. I, too, am sorry if my comments in this thread were too pointed. Obviously this is an issue on which you and I are not going to agree, but showing a more human side (you, me and all of us) might help us to reach a greater level of understanding. Thank you for being the one to step up and change the tone of conversation here. Very commendable. What happened to KD anyway?
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Post by 950nancy on Jun 10, 2016 15:23:15 GMT
I was raised with guns and we have several. I am a registered republican and have never ever felt that gun laws would take away my right to own a gun. I personally would like to see gun control though. I cannot for the life of me see why regular citizens needs to own automatic weapons. I haven't heard any candidate say they want to take away the right to own a gun. They won't be stupid enough to tell you outright. They'll attempt it slowly hoping you won't notice.I don't believe that for a moment. There are extremes on both sides, but I don't believe that at all. I think most people want change though.
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Rainbow
Pearl Clutcher
Where salt is in the air and sand is at my feet...
Posts: 4,103
Jun 26, 2014 5:57:41 GMT
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Post by Rainbow on Jun 10, 2016 15:23:24 GMT
I just want to apologize for my off-putting and over zealous manner in this thread. Some issues really trigger me and I'm trying to rein it in a bit. The importance of this issue is major to me and a lot of other people, here and elsewhere. I wish I had a mild manner, like my friend Kimberly Dobbs. I miss her so much. I'm sure you won't be offended if I tell you that my jaw dropped a foot when I read this. Go you. And I mean that in all sincerity. I, too, am sorry if my comments in this thread were too pointed. Obviously this is an issue on which you and I are not going to agree, but showing a more human side (you, me and all of us) might help us to reach a greater level of understanding. Thank you for being the one to step up and change the tone of conversation here. Very commendable. What happened to KD anyway? She passed away, unfortunately.
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Post by Merge on Jun 10, 2016 15:25:29 GMT
I'm sure you won't be offended if I tell you that my jaw dropped a foot when I read this. Go you. And I mean that in all sincerity. I, too, am sorry if my comments in this thread were too pointed. Obviously this is an issue on which you and I are not going to agree, but showing a more human side (you, me and all of us) might help us to reach a greater level of understanding. Thank you for being the one to step up and change the tone of conversation here. Very commendable. What happened to KD anyway? She passed away, unfortunately. I'm so sorry. I guess I had forgotten she was one of the peas we lost.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Apr 29, 2024 1:39:17 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2016 15:42:51 GMT
The vast majority of gun owners I know do not own a gun for "just in case" or "what if". They do own them for various reasons. They hunt, they may be military or law enforcement, or they enjoy target shooting as a hobby. They have no intention of killing people and they certainly aren't stupid, stupid, stupid. The pool of stupid gun owners would exist even if the "what if" or " just in case" crowd didn't buy guns. All they are doing is expanding an existing pool. I'm sure the majority of guns owners don't believe they are stupid. Doesn't matter if the have a reason for buying a gun or part of the "what if" crowd. But whether they mean to or not some gun owners will slide into that stupid gun owners pool. And when that happens people can and more often then will get hurt. A perfect example is the well publicized shooting in SF. What is very rarely mentioned is where the gun came from. It came from the parked on the street car of a BLM agent. From years of being told never leave anything of value in a parked car on the street in my world that means that anyone who leaves a gun in a car parked on the street is a dimwit. But he is not alone. In the Bay Area during the last year or so guns have been stolen out of parked cars belonging to the Chief of Police of Berkeley, a deputy sheriff, and two FBI agents. You would think these "professionals" would know better when it came to properly securing their guns. You say the people you know who own guns aren't stupid. I betcha donuts to dollars the group of individuals above felt the same way. So you see the stupid gun pool already exists without the "what if" crowd. Just because one has a reason to own gun does not preclude them from slipping into the stupid gun owners pool.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Jun 10, 2016 15:51:43 GMT
I just want to apologize for my off-putting and over zealous manner in this thread. Some issues really trigger me and I'm trying to rein it in a bit. The importance of this issue is major to me and a lot of other people, here and elsewhere. I wish I had a mild manner, like my friend Kimberly Dobbs. I miss her so much. I'm sure you won't be offended if I tell you that my jaw dropped a foot when I read this. Go you. And I mean that in all sincerity. I, too, am sorry if my comments in this thread were too pointed. Obviously this is an issue on which you and I are not going to agree, but showing a more human side (you, me and all of us) might help us to reach a greater level of understanding. Thank you for being the one to step up and change the tone of conversation here. Very commendable. What happened to KD anyway? Count me in the bench with mergeleft--I had to look who posted and rub my eyes a few times! I've stated before that we own guns. We have LEO's in immediate family. We also think that the amount of deaths by guns is absolutely ridiculous and needs to change. The 2nd is very interpretable (depends on which "side" you are on and has been debated for a long time. There needs to be changes because it's not getting any better, and this is something that I'm passionate about. I don't feel that some restrictions/limitations put in place would alter my rights (as a good and responsible gun owner). I don't feel paranoid that big brother wants to chip away to take away all my rights (they don't have the money, time, resources to be doing any of that nonsense). I feel that there are many sitting in Washington who have been bought and paid for by the NRA and gun manufacturers who quash any legislature proposed to try to make things better. Rainbow bunny suggested going after the criminals/stupid gun owners. Well that's not currently working either. These bad guys out number the LEO's greatly. Then, the bad guys scream that their rights have been violated because of one reason or another; LEO approach suspicious scenarios, then it's all over the news that they are targeting because of ethnicity or location. Current culture has police even cautious about approaching anyone for fear of being sued or worse--killed. Drug trade fuel guns. Lots of drugs that are being combatted by LEO that pull their resources. Stupid gun owners. Well, they "think" that they are responsible gun owners ---until something happens. Kids find them, accidentally kill themselves or hurt/kill someone else. Do the shooters or gun owners go to jail when this happens? Not usually, especially when it is family they claim that they have been punished enough by the death of a loved one. Well they become "stupid owners" who are not punished, so there us absolutely no message sent out that if you are a "stupid gun owner" you will have a swift and severe punishment (that might aid in deterring others from making those stupid mistakes) So, in a nutshell just going after the bad guys doesn't work. Then you have those who think that they are "going to save the day" (cue the Mighty Mouse theme song) who CC or OC and who are just so sure with their savvy and training that if they encounter a situation where they are in a store or restaurant (any establishment) and they see a person trying to rob the place , that they are going to whip out their weapon and stop the crime and be the hero. They don't realize that they can be prosecuted if they hurt or kill the robber! It's not so easy it clear cut anymore that just because you have a permit you can pull out your weapon with no repercussions. There are many cases where the original "bad guy" has sued (and won) against the person trying to save the day. As a legal carrier (non-LEO) , you first have a responsibility to remove yourself from the situation if at all possible. In these situations, You're fooling yourself if you think you know more about shooting a gun than the bad guy. Sure you might paper target/range practice however, the bad guys are unpredictable, often on drugs, desperate and not in their right mind. Overestimating your ability against these kinds of people get people killed. You aren't going to be asked by the LEO's to stick around and help out either! People just are not trained to be in those stress filled situations involving gun shoot outs and, you could likely shoot the wrong person. You could shoot someone who says they have a weapon, but then actually does not. All in all, guns have become out of control and things need to change. It's not working at the end user so need to make some changes further up the line so that it has a chance to trickle down, take affect, and help get guns away from those who think that they should have them but clearly should not. Merge--Kim died last year.
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Rainbow
Pearl Clutcher
Where salt is in the air and sand is at my feet...
Posts: 4,103
Jun 26, 2014 5:57:41 GMT
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Post by Rainbow on Jun 10, 2016 15:52:11 GMT
The vast majority of gun owners I know do not own a gun for "just in case" or "what if". They do own them for various reasons. They hunt, they may be military or law enforcement, or they enjoy target shooting as a hobby. They have no intention of killing people and they certainly aren't stupid, stupid, stupid. The pool of stupid gun owners would exist even if the "what if" or " just in case" crowd didn't buy guns. All they are doing is expanding an existing pool. I'm sure the majority of guns owners don't believe they are stupid. Doesn't matter if the have a reason for buying a gun or part of the "what if" crowd. But whether they mean to or not some gun owners will slide into that stupid gun owners pool. And when that happens people can and more often then will get hurt. A perfect example is the well publicized shooting in SF. What is very rarely mentioned is where the gun came from. It came from the parked on the street car of a BLM agent. From years of being told never leave anything of value in a parked car on the street in my world that means that anyone who leaves a gun in a car parked on the street is a dimwit. But he is not alone. In the Bay Area during the last year or so guns have been stolen out of parked cars belonging to the Chief of Police of Berkeley, a deputy sheriff, and two FBI agents. You would think these "professionals" would know better when it came to properly securing their guns. You say the people you know who own guns aren't stupid. I betcha donuts to dollars the group of individuals above felt the same way. So you see the stupid gun pool already exists without the "what if" crowd. Just because one has a reason to own gun does not preclude them from slipping into the stupid gun owners pool. Those professionals should have known better. They really have no excuse. A much better option would have been a gun safe secured in the vehicle. It's like a small locked box tethered with a steel cord that could be looped through something so the box could not be removed. Then, chances are the criminal wouldn't hang around long enough to try breaking into the locked box. Some of them are almost impossible to break open with hand tools or whatever.
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Post by freecharlie on Jun 10, 2016 16:13:00 GMT
The vast majority of gun owners I know do not own a gun for "just in case" or "what if". They do own them for various reasons. They hunt, they may be military or law enforcement, or they enjoy target shooting as a hobby. They have no intention of killing people and they certainly aren't stupid, stupid, stupid. agreed. We own guns because the boys hunt and because we go target shooting. We do have a loaded handgun in a safe in our bedroom. I do not anticipate ever using it. I do know some people who carry because they are idiots who think x, y, and z, so not everybody is likebus.
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Rainbow
Pearl Clutcher
Where salt is in the air and sand is at my feet...
Posts: 4,103
Jun 26, 2014 5:57:41 GMT
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Post by Rainbow on Jun 10, 2016 16:38:37 GMT
I'm sure you won't be offended if I tell you that my jaw dropped a foot when I read this. Go you. And I mean that in all sincerity. I, too, am sorry if my comments in this thread were too pointed. Obviously this is an issue on which you and I are not going to agree, but showing a more human side (you, me and all of us) might help us to reach a greater level of understanding. Thank you for being the one to step up and change the tone of conversation here. Very commendable. What happened to KD anyway? Count me in the bench with mergeleft--I had to look who posted and rub my eyes a few times! I've stated before that we own guns. We have LEO's in immediate family. We also think that the amount of deaths by guns is absolutely ridiculous and needs to change. The 2nd is very interpretable (depends on which "side" you are on and has been debated for a long time. There needs to be changes because it's not getting any better, and this is something that I'm passionate about. I don't feel that some restrictions/limitations put in place would alter my rights (as a good and responsible gun owner). I don't feel paranoid that big brother wants to chip away to take away all my rights (they don't have the money, time, resources to be doing any of that nonsense). I feel that there are many sitting in Washington who have been bought and paid for by the NRA and gun manufacturers who quash any legislature proposed to try to make things better. Rainbow bunny suggested going after the criminals/stupid gun owners. Well that's not currently working either. These bad guys out number the LEO's greatly. Then, the bad guys scream that their rights have been violated because of one reason or another; LEO approach suspicious scenarios, then it's all over the news that they are targeting because of ethnicity or location. Current culture has police even cautious about approaching anyone for fear of being sued or worse--killed. Drug trade fuel guns. Lots of drugs that are being combatted by LEO that pull their resources. Stupid gun owners. Well, they "think" that they are responsible gun owners ---until something happens. Kids find them, accidentally kill themselves or hurt/kill someone else. Do the shooters or gun owners go to jail when this happens? Not usually, especially when it is family they claim that they have been punished enough by the death of a loved one. Well they become "stupid owners" who are not punished, so there us absolutely no message sent out that if you are a "stupid gun owner" you will have a swift and severe punishment (that might aid in deterring others from making those stupid mistakes) So, in a nutshell just going after the bad guys doesn't work. Then you have those who think that they are "going to save the day" (cue the Mighty Mouse theme song) who CC or OC and who are just so sure with their savvy and training that if they encounter a situation where they are in a store or restaurant (any establishment) and they see a person trying to rob the place , that they are going to whip out their weapon and stop the crime and be the hero. They don't realize that they can be prosecuted if they hurt or kill the robber! It's not so easy it clear cut anymore that just because you have a permit you can pull out your weapon with no repercussions. There are many cases where the original "bad guy" has sued (and won) against the person trying to save the day. As a legal carrier (non-LEO) , you first have a responsibility to remove yourself from the situation if at all possible. In these situations, You're fooling yourself if you think you know more about shooting a gun than the bad guy. Sure you might paper target/range practice however, the bad guys are unpredictable, often on drugs, desperate and not in their right mind. Overestimating your ability against these kinds of people get people killed. You aren't going to be asked by the LEO's to stick around and help out either! People just are not trained to be in those stress filled situations involving gun shoot outs and, you could likely shoot the wrong person. You could shoot someone who says they have a weapon, but then actually does not. All in all, guns have become out of control and things need to change. It's not working at the end user so need to make some changes further up the line so that it has a chance to trickle down, take affect, and help get guns away from those who think that they should have them but clearly should not. Merge--Kim died last year. I completely agree with toughening up the laws in regard to stupid people who do not secure their weapons and someone is injured or killed because of it. (This is not agreeing with storage laws, which is different.) There should be swift and severe penalties for being careless.
I do not agree with "They don't realize that they can be prosecuted if they hurt or kill the robber!" Anyone who has gone through training will know that this is a possibility. I don't take that lightly at all. I have kids and grandkids (I'm a Nana y'all!) that I love and want to see. The last thing I want is to spend time in jail or injure/kill an innocent person. As a matter of fact, I realize that I may never need to use my weapon in defense, ever. I'm just glad it's there if the unthinkable were to ever happen. I take that very seriously.
I also do not agree that "As a legal carrier (non-LEO) , you first have a responsibility to remove yourself from the situation if at all possible." This is not true in my state. We have the Castle Doctrine and there is no duty to retreat. That doesn't mean that I would not, just that it is not required of me. I might first leave the situation if I could, hide if I could not leave, and defend if that were my last option.
And this "You could shoot someone who says they have a weapon, but then actually does not." should not happen with training. Like you don't shoot at rustling bushes because you don't know what/who is in there. Training, training, training.
I don't expect you to know these things, I don't believe you live in NC and have no idea if you've had any training.
And to the pea who recommended the 5.11 range bag - it's awesome! A bit large, but plenty of room to carry everything and I love the padding in it and the cup for spent brass!
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Post by joylynaroundthebnd on Jun 10, 2016 17:03:30 GMT
But, there will be instances where self defense with a weapon is a good idea. My point of view is that the weapons are already out there. The discussion about which ones should or should not be allowed is a waste of time. You can have all the laws on the books you want, it will not change the fact that criminals will always have weapons. It will not reduce gun related crimes. The tale of the pool of stupid gun owners by me! First the vast majority of citizens of this country will never ever be in a position where " self defense with a weapon is a good idea". Anyone who thinks otherwise is buying into the garbage put out by the NRA. Some folks have an actual use or need for guns like hunters, folks who live in the boonies with wild animals and need the protection, occupations that require the guns for protection either for themselves or others in their charge. However the vast majority of gun owners do not have a creditable threat to themselves, their family members, or their livestock. Their reasons for owning guns are "just in case" and "what if" the two worse reasons for owning a gun. If the truth be told for this group of gun owners if they locked their guns up in a safe today they would never have a need to take the gun out of the safe for the rest of their lives. Unfortunately some of these guns owners don't have the sense to take proper care of their guns and as such some of these "responsible gun owners" expand the pool of stupid gun owners. This pool of stupid gun owners are responsible directly or indirectly for the deaths of 33,000 people a year. The more guns out there the larger the pool of stupid gun owners becomes. And the greater risk the safety to the citizens of this country. Less stupid gun owners the safer this country becomes. Second. Where do you think criminals get their guns from? Where do you think gangs get their guns from? I will tell you. A large % comes from the pool of stupid gun owners. Less guns out their from the pool of the stupid gun owners less guns for criminals and gangs. And we will all be safer. And it's not a waste of time to discuss the negative affect guns have on the general population. Not ever. Well, my perspective is based on my life and my world. As is yours. I do not believe everything I read or watch, from the NRA or other groups. Every group has an agenda and will only publish information that supports their position. I do watch the news, read articles and stories from both sides of every argument, not just gun control. I realize there are gun owners who are not responsible in the handling and storing of their weapons. Not sure how more laws will keep "stupid" people from becoming gun owners. Maybe I need to research the proposals and laws in other states more to see if they will keep "stupid" people from purchasing guns. I get angry at people who leave their guns out for anyone to take/use, especially if children are around. Again, not sure how more laws will stop that from happening. I do know that criminals steal weapons that are then out there to be used as they see fit. I guess sometimes I look at the arguments for more gun control and think the proponents think it will completely take care of the problem.
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