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Post by cade387 on Jun 27, 2016 18:54:01 GMT
I feel like it's everywhere I look and everything I read. It's just ridiculous that I should feel awful because of my skin color. I can't help my skin color any more than I can help being a woman. I don't even have to do a single thing for people to talk about my color as being horrible, oppressive, insert anything in here that is awful. I'm tired of it. At least the people in real life who know me don't treat me like that. I don't understand how demanding a system of justice that treats all Americans fairly is asking you to "feel awful because of (your) skin color." The fact that our system is biased against poor people and people of color is well-documented. The affluenza case epitomizes this. I would cite examples of how poor and brown people are unjustly incarcerated in greater numbers than whites, but I won't waste my time because I doubt it will change your mind. I doubt you are interested in real conversation, anyhow. The bottom line is that "they" go to jail at much higher rates and receive much harsher sentences for the same crimes than "you" do. You may choose to deny this and play victim all you want, but it doesn't change the fact that our criminal justice system is heavily skewed against the most vulnerable people in our society. This isn't a fact that "they" have made up to burden "you", it's the truth about the way things have worked in this country for a very long time. Acknowledging this fact is different than asking "you" to have white guilt. I don't understand a worldview that is so narrow that it doesn't allow for much reasoning outside of "us" vs. "them."
I would also add that there isn't some finite number of folks who can be treated fairly. It shouldn't be "us" vs. "them". You don't have to put someone down to lift yourself up. You don't have to assume "you" will lose something so "they" get treated fairly.
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Rainbow
Pearl Clutcher
Where salt is in the air and sand is at my feet...
Posts: 4,103
Jun 26, 2014 5:57:41 GMT
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Post by Rainbow on Jun 27, 2016 18:55:20 GMT
I clearly do not feel awful for being white, that is true. I'm just tired of other people wanting me to feel that way. Like being white makes me guilty of something. [ You don't see it--do you? What if I change a few words, maybe that will help you understand: I clearly do not feel awful for being black, that is true. I'm just tired of the police wanting to pull me over for no other reason than being black. It works both ways, so?
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Post by secondlife on Jun 27, 2016 18:58:45 GMT
The point is that somewhere isn't the same for some folks as it is for others. I don't know where you got your start in life. I got mine in abject poverty but with highly intelligent and hardworking parents. So I started out the gate well ahead of many - and well behind others. My DH and I later lived in Richmond, CA, Oakland's murderous cousin to the north, where I discovered that my childhood of peaceful poverty was like paradise in comparison. Kids in my town end up working at Walmart or the lumber yard. Some kids in Richmond end up at San Quentin. Big difference. I learned decades ago that shaming a community for its shortcomings is not how you propel a community to productivity. I'm not shaming anyone, and by the same token I don't want others to do it to me. These days white=evil which is simply not the case. Can't we all just be citizens with no color distinction? My guess is no, because then there wouldn't be anything to leverage against white people. I can't help being the race that I am, and I feel like I'm being punished for it every day. It's not like I chose this race, it was chosen for me.Show me white = evil one single solitary place in my post and I will retract with extreme apology. That said, "You just need to do better and you won't be in this predicament" is absolutely a means of shaming a community. It ignores all of the social and cultural and economic and historic and relational factors that go into the difficulty experienced on a population level. It says, until you do better you are just getting what you deserve and ignores everything that came before you. In parallel, back in the early days of the AIDS epidemic, the gay community heard a lot about how if they would just stop having sex then there would be no AIDS. And there is a literal and direct sense in which that is true. But it also ignores that there was a problem already at work in the community - it is like saying if the captain of the Titanic just turned off his engine he wouldn't have hit that iceberg. The momentum is already there and it is already against you. So in both examples there is already a problem that needs more than just self-will to walk back the effect. Things like compassion, education, hope, purpose, care, diversion, respect, and other such.
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Rainbow
Pearl Clutcher
Where salt is in the air and sand is at my feet...
Posts: 4,103
Jun 26, 2014 5:57:41 GMT
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Post by Rainbow on Jun 27, 2016 18:59:06 GMT
As I've said before, I don't think it is really about race but instead SES. I've known two former students that got caught breaking the law, that were able to buy their ways out of the situations. No record, no community service, just Dad's checkbook. One was a white boy and one was a black girl. Their poor counterparts, who got caught with them (separate incidents) now have records. They couldn't afford fancy lawyers and hefty fines. This! For my .02 I believe we need to look at social class. Let's address the low income/ poverty in this country because that is where discrimination also is at. If you are a rich black man committing a crime (OJ) you can get away with murder. Just like if you are a poor white man and commit a crime you are doing jail time. I think there will always be some discrimination in this country and we need to be aware and try to change it. Let's face it, if you have a disability, over weight, not attractive or not in society's norm you will see discrimination. If you're white you will see discrimination too. Some don't want to admit that.
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katybee
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,378
Jun 25, 2014 23:25:39 GMT
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Post by katybee on Jun 27, 2016 18:59:23 GMT
] What I'm speaking of is not the system, it's the media bias mostly. And regardless of how fair or unfair the system is, if you don't do a crime you won't do time. It IS a simple concept. There are people coming out of the poorest neighborhoods who do not commit crimes or do drugs. They made a choice. You can choose good or you can choose bad. It's the same for any color. [/font][/font][/font][/quote][ What kind of idealized fantasy world do you live in? There are lots of people who don't do the crime and, yet, are doing the time. There are people who have been EXECUTED for crimes they didn't commit. And they are usually black. And that is NOT media bias. There are many factual, documented cases. Google it.
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Post by paperaddictedpea on Jun 27, 2016 18:59:46 GMT
Uh-OH...spaghetti-O's (I think it has weenies in it too!) Just mix in some blueberries and you'll have a festive addition to your 4th of July BBQ menu!
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Jun 27, 2016 19:00:02 GMT
Spaghetti-o's and hot dogs in aspic!!!! Lol Hot dogs! You slander that lovely...creation. It's Vienna sausages. Lol!!! Here, there is a distinctive different between a Vienna sausage and a hot dog!! Lol
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katybee
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,378
Jun 25, 2014 23:25:39 GMT
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Post by katybee on Jun 27, 2016 19:00:39 GMT
[ You don't see it--do you? What if I change a few words, maybe that will help you understand: I clearly do not feel awful for being black, that is true. I'm just tired of the police wanting to pull me over for no other reason than being black. It works both ways, so?Yeah-- but I think going to PRISON is a little harsher than having your feelings hurt...
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Post by mollycoddle on Jun 27, 2016 19:03:12 GMT
What the bloddy hell is that??? Good Lord. I'm speechless.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Jun 27, 2016 19:06:51 GMT
I don't understand how demanding a system of justice that treats all Americans fairly is asking you to "feel awful because of (your) skin color." The fact that our system is biased against poor people and people of color is well-documented. The affluenza case epitomizes this. I would cite examples of how poor and brown people are unjustly incarcerated in greater number than whites, but I won't waste my time because I doubt it will change your mind. The bottom line is that "they" go to jail at much higher rates and receive much harsher sentences than for the same crimes than "you" do. You may choose to deny this and play victim all you want, but it doesn't change the fact that our criminal justice system is heavily skewed against the most vulnerable people in our society. This isn't a fact that "they" have made up to burden "you", it's the truth about the way things have worked in this country for a very long time. Acknowledging this fact is different than asking "you" to have white guilt. I don't understand a worldview that is so narrow that it doesn't allow for much reasoning outside of "us" vs. "them." What I'm speaking of is not the system, it's the media bias mostly. And regardless of how fair or unfair the system is, if you don't do a crime you won't do time. It IS a simple concept. There are people coming out of the poorest neighborhoods who do not commit crimes or do drugs. They made a choice. You can choose good or you can choose bad. It's the same for any color. Quit committing crimes and you won't go to jail. Simple, no matter what color you are. It really isn't that simple. Unless you are a simpleton. Proportions of those who are eventually exonerated ( meaning didn't do the crime to begin with) are overwhelmingly AF males in comparison to any other ethnicity. "Perhaps nowhere is this alarming phenomenon more apparent than in New York City. Over the course of 2014, numerous lawsuits have been filed against the city by wrongfully convicted criminal defendants – a disproportionate number of whom are Black. This year alone, plaintiffs filing civil suits against the city have included the "Central Park Five," who were collectively imprisoned for 41 years for the rape of Trisha Meili; Jabbar Collins, who spent 16 years in prison for a murder someone else committed; and Jonathan Fleming, who was wrongfully incarcerated for 25 years, also for murder. How have wrongful convictions historically been broken down by race? National Registry of Exonerations Reports Disproportionately High Numbers for Black Defendants Let's begin by looking at the general numbers. According to the National Registry of Exonerations, a total of 87 exonerations were documented in 2013. These exonerations spanned a wide variety of both violent and nonviolent offenses, ranging from drug possession to assault to murder – yet the same cannot be said of the recorded racial distribution. "Black defendants constitute 25% of prisoners incarcerated for rape," according to the Registry, "but 61% of those exonerated for such crimes." The five men who comprised the Central Park Five, for example, represent only a tiny fraction of this number. The increasing prevalence of DNA testing over the years has played a crucial role in clearing charges for previously convicted "criminals." The first DNA exoneration documented in the United States took place on August 14, 1989, clearing 22-year-old Gary Dotson of the alleged rape of Cathleen Crowell (who later admitted to fabricating her accusations and inflicting her own injuries). The National Registry currently cites a total of 1,417 exonerations – the majority of which are attributed to Black defendants." You ignored this post. It is not as simple as you claim. To simplify it for you, there are a staggering amount of AF who have been unjustly incarcerated--accused of a crime they did not do--who were finally exonerated, some jailed for dozens of years or more. All because of the color of their skin, not because they chose crime.
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Rainbow
Pearl Clutcher
Where salt is in the air and sand is at my feet...
Posts: 4,103
Jun 26, 2014 5:57:41 GMT
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Post by Rainbow on Jun 27, 2016 19:07:40 GMT
The solution works regardless of color. The problem is "just don't do it"is not a solution. It is like saying Well of course we can have world peace all we have to do is not have wars. To think you can eradicate crime is simplified wishful thinking, in my opinion you can blame human nature for that. Until people become something out of a sci-fi movies with no real brain or complex human thoughts and actions, that is not possible. There are many things that cause people to commit crimes, some are situational and some are not. So ultimately just don't do it will not work as a solution. But back to reality...since we do have to deal with crime, it is not preposterous for people to complain about injustice. As you said the color of your skin should not matter but it has been proven time and time again that it does. So since there has been crime since the beginning of time and just don't do it doesn't always work, I say lets start somewhere else. Maybe by trying to make the justice systems fair and by trying to help those who are in situations and surroundings that cultivate people to live violent lives. So that long winded rambling response basically is that I would rather look at fixing some of the real problems rather than think that a simple "just don't do it" will cure all of humanity. Since my response is already too long - let me add that I have committed crimes. Nothing earth shattering and nothing I have ever been arrested for or that would ruin my life, for which I am grateful. But I have done stupid things and that is even after having the advantage of growing up white, middle class, having loving parents and family, and a wonderful little Mayberry type town. I am very thankful that I did not have to grow up also dealing with some of the situations and in some of the places that I have seen or heard about. I am white and have never felt like I was being punished for it but I have seen how's it has it has provided me with some privileges. l I see what you are saying. I'm saying if you're griping about being incarcerated then you need to look to yourself to see how you got there, not blame everyone and everything around you. It starts with the person themselves. They are the ones who make the ultimate choices. I've seen some people who have had every program and whatever that there was and they still made bad choices. The persons themselves are the determining factor. Nobody else can change it but them. When I was working in the schools I had some teachers tell me, "you can't reach them all" and it was sad but true, and you can't blame society for that.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Jun 27, 2016 19:10:36 GMT
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Rainbow
Pearl Clutcher
Where salt is in the air and sand is at my feet...
Posts: 4,103
Jun 26, 2014 5:57:41 GMT
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Post by Rainbow on Jun 27, 2016 19:12:07 GMT
I don't understand how demanding a system of justice that treats all Americans fairly is asking you to "feel awful because of (your) skin color." The fact that our system is biased against poor people and people of color is well-documented. The affluenza case epitomizes this. I would cite examples of how poor and brown people are unjustly incarcerated in greater numbers than whites, but I won't waste my time because I doubt it will change your mind. I doubt you are interested in real conversation, anyhow. The bottom line is that "they" go to jail at much higher rates and receive much harsher sentences for the same crimes than "you" do. You may choose to deny this and play victim all you want, but it doesn't change the fact that our criminal justice system is heavily skewed against the most vulnerable people in our society. This isn't a fact that "they" have made up to burden "you", it's the truth about the way things have worked in this country for a very long time. Acknowledging this fact is different than asking "you" to have white guilt. I don't understand a worldview that is so narrow that it doesn't allow for much reasoning outside of "us" vs. "them."
I would also add that there isn't some finite number of folks who can be treated fairly. It shouldn't be "us" vs. "them". You don't have to put someone down to lift yourself up. You don't have to assume "you" will lose something so "they" get treated fairly.
Apparently this gal in the video feels differently than you do. According to her, white people need to "give something up". Now exactly what that is, I'm not sure. Why should I, because I was born white, have to give something up? She doesn't even know me, and I don't know her. But because I'm white I have to give something up? I don't think so!
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 20, 2024 21:01:30 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2016 19:16:47 GMT
Too soon? I'm totally chortling at 'weenies'
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Rainbow
Pearl Clutcher
Where salt is in the air and sand is at my feet...
Posts: 4,103
Jun 26, 2014 5:57:41 GMT
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Post by Rainbow on Jun 27, 2016 19:17:08 GMT
I'm not shaming anyone, and by the same token I don't want others to do it to me. These days white=evil which is simply not the case. Can't we all just be citizens with no color distinction? My guess is no, because then there wouldn't be anything to leverage against white people. I can't help being the race that I am, and I feel like I'm being punished for it every day. It's not like I chose this race, it was chosen for me. Show me white = evil one single solitary place in my post and I will retract with extreme apology. That said, "You just need to do better and you won't be in this predicament" is absolutely a means of shaming a community. It ignores all of the social and cultural and economic and historic and relational factors that go into the difficulty experienced on a population level. It says, until you do better you are just getting what you deserve and ignores everything that came before you. In parallel, back in the early days of the AIDS epidemic, the gay community heard a lot about how if they would just stop having sex then there would be no AIDS. And there is a literal and direct sense in which that is true. But it also ignores that there was a problem already at work in the community - it is like saying if the captain of the Titanic just turned off his engine he wouldn't have hit that iceberg. The momentum is already there and it is already against you. So in both examples there is already a problem that needs more than just self-will to walk back the effect. I did not say that you posted white=evil. And there is no shaming involved in stating that actions have consequences.
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Rainbow
Pearl Clutcher
Where salt is in the air and sand is at my feet...
Posts: 4,103
Jun 26, 2014 5:57:41 GMT
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Post by Rainbow on Jun 27, 2016 19:21:10 GMT
] What I'm speaking of is not the system, it's the media bias mostly. And regardless of how fair or unfair the system is, if you don't do a crime you won't do time. It IS a simple concept. There are people coming out of the poorest neighborhoods who do not commit crimes or do drugs. They made a choice. You can choose good or you can choose bad. It's the same for any color. [/font][/font][/font][/quote][ What kind of idealized fantasy world do you live in? There are lots of people who don't do the crime and, yet, are doing the time. There are people who have been EXECUTED for crimes they didn't commit. And they are usually black. And that is NOT media bias. There are many factual, documented cases. Google it. [/quote] I suppose you could just let them all out and then disarm us. Would that be better?
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inkedup
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,837
Jun 26, 2014 5:00:26 GMT
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Post by inkedup on Jun 27, 2016 19:21:42 GMT
I would also add that there isn't some finite number of folks who can be treated fairly. It shouldn't be "us" vs. "them". You don't have to put someone down to lift yourself up. You don't have to assume "you" will lose something so "they" get treated fairly.
Apparently this gal in the video feels differently than you do. According to her, white people need to "give something up". Now exactly what that is, I'm not sure. Why should I, because I was born white, have to give something up? She doesn't even know me, and I don't know her. But because I'm white I have to give something up? I don't think so!Um...who is this woman? (I couldn't see a video.) Does she have the power to incarcerate you? Does she run a media empire or have the power to turn the American public against white people? I don't agree with this woman, for the record, if your quotes are accurate. I don't think this video bolsters your claims in any way. I could find video of a white person being racist and say, "see! It proves my point. All white people are racist." It wouldn't be true.
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Rainbow
Pearl Clutcher
Where salt is in the air and sand is at my feet...
Posts: 4,103
Jun 26, 2014 5:57:41 GMT
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Post by Rainbow on Jun 27, 2016 19:23:34 GMT
Yeah-- but I think going to PRISON is a little harsher than having your feelings hurt... We weren't talking about prison.
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Post by crimsoncat05 on Jun 27, 2016 19:24:05 GMT
now, this actually looks ALMOST appetizing (but then again, it's lunchtime and I'm hungry...)
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Post by secondlife on Jun 27, 2016 19:25:54 GMT
now, this actually looks ALMOST appetizing (but then again, it's lunchtime and I'm hungry...) What in the... Is that spaghettio's pizza??
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Rainbow
Pearl Clutcher
Where salt is in the air and sand is at my feet...
Posts: 4,103
Jun 26, 2014 5:57:41 GMT
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Post by Rainbow on Jun 27, 2016 19:26:04 GMT
Apparently this gal in the video feels differently than you do. According to her, white people need to "give something up". Now exactly what that is, I'm not sure. Why should I, because I was born white, have to give something up? She doesn't even know me, and I don't know her. But because I'm white I have to give something up? I don't think so! Um...who is this woman? (I couldn't see a video.) Does she have the power to incarcerate you? Does she run a media empire or have the power to turn the American public against white people? I don't agree with this woman, for the record, if your quotes are accurate. I don't think this video bolsters your claims in any way. I could find video of a white person being racist and say, "see! It proves my point. All white people are racist." It wouldn't be true. It was just an example.
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Post by leftturnonly on Jun 27, 2016 19:37:41 GMT
Uh-OH...spaghetti-O's (I think it has weenies in it too!) Just mix in some blueberries and you'll have a festive addition to your 4th of July BBQ menu! Mommy, I'm scared!
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Post by leftturnonly on Jun 27, 2016 19:45:33 GMT
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Post by elaine on Jun 27, 2016 19:57:09 GMT
[/font][/font][/font][/quote][ What kind of idealized fantasy world do you live in? There are lots of people who don't do the crime and, yet, are doing the time. There are people who have been EXECUTED for crimes they didn't commit. And they are usually black. And that is NOT media bias. There are many factual, documented cases. Google it. [/quote] I suppose you could just let them all out and then disarm us. Would that be better?[/quote] Them is a set not identified. So that allows us to assign any value to it, no? [/quote] Here Lefty- embedded for you!
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Post by ktdoesntscrap on Jun 27, 2016 19:58:50 GMT
White men are arrested for 69% of all violent crimes. Yet African Americans are 6 x more likely to be found guilty and make up nearly 50% of the population in prison. They are also given longer sentences for committing the same crime. You can pretend the race doesn't matter in America and that being black is not a burden, but you would quite simply be wrong. SO throw your stones, cast your aspersions. YOU are the problem not part of the solution. Quit committing crimes and you won't go to jail. Simple, no matter what color you are.Quit being white and then you won't have to post this nonsense.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 20, 2024 21:01:30 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2016 19:59:23 GMT
Sweet fancy Moses, Lainey, is that the Hoff?! If so, it's a welcome change from the infinite crotch and wrinkly puppy photos we usually see
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Jun 27, 2016 20:01:47 GMT
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Post by elaine on Jun 27, 2016 20:02:38 GMT
I still think that the title questions are better suited for this issue:
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 20, 2024 21:01:30 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2016 20:03:19 GMT
Read the book Under Our Skin by Benjamin Watson. He plays for the New Orleans Saints. This book opened my eyes to the many ways racism pervades our culture without us even realizing it. It's written from a Christian perspective, so there is a lot of talk about God, if that would bother anyone.
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Post by miss_lizzie on Jun 27, 2016 20:03:19 GMT
I miss cherryeye from the old board. She would post the most random things in posts.
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