Deleted
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May 20, 2024 14:10:59 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2016 0:09:56 GMT
snowsilver, I'm so sorry to hear about your father.
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Post by peano on Nov 23, 2016 1:08:33 GMT
It is the constitutional right of Muslims to believe in Allah. Etcetera. yep, they can believe in the non existent Allah... that doesn't change our constitution. Hear, O Israel, the Lord Our God, The Lord is One.
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Post by megop on Nov 23, 2016 3:05:59 GMT
Fascinating. I've been off board for a number of years, and upon a random check it out, I have an oddly strange "been there done that" regarding the convo on this thread. Honestly, it's like rereading 2008 and 2012 all over again!
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Post by DinCA on Nov 23, 2016 5:59:12 GMT
Merge, I don't have a problem with Lin-Manuel Miranda's words. His message is a good one. If he felt so strongly that the words needed to be said in that place at that time, he should have come out to speak them himself instead of allowing Brandon Dixon to read them to the audience. That said, I'm not a fan of the bully pulpit. Yes, theatre is art, and this production is political, but of much more historical relevance than politics per se. And I'm sure there were people in the audience who gladly welcomed his message but I'm equally sure that some people went to the theatre to escape real life and real-life politics. Some of these tickets were in the $2000 range and likely purchased some time ago, before this election became so divisive, so it's conceivable that some would find it intrusive. Even if there was only one person in the audience who was offended or put off, then it was inappropriate. I have a real problem with people claiming a right to do things even if that right infringes on the rights of others. Just because you can doesn't mean you should. And I feel like it could have been handled better. Perhaps Mr. Pence could have been invited backstage for a real conversation - which is what this was purported to be, as stated by Dixon - rather than a one-sided conversation. I would have been humiliated if it had happened to me, even if I was the vice-president elect.
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Deleted
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May 20, 2024 14:10:59 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2016 6:12:26 GMT
As humiliated as an LGBT person who is told daily that they're unnatural and depraved? Humiliated like that?
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Post by DinCA on Nov 23, 2016 6:19:01 GMT
As humiliated as an LGBT person who is told daily that they're unnatural and depraved? Humiliated like that? I am not Mike Pence. I said "I" would be humiliated. My sister is LGBT and my nephew is transgender so please do not preach to me about tolerance. Some people have expressed - not here - that the vice-president elect should expect it. And I'm sure that's true. But I personally would have been humiliated if I had been called out like that, particularly since no one knows for sure what's in my heart. Nothing I said deserved that response from you.
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Sarah*H
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,979
Jun 25, 2014 20:07:06 GMT
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Post by Sarah*H on Nov 23, 2016 11:22:26 GMT
While it is still his show, he is London right now. Once he was informed that Pence requested tickets that afternoon, he and Tommy Kail (the director) wrote the statement together.
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Sarah*H
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,979
Jun 25, 2014 20:07:06 GMT
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Post by Sarah*H on Nov 23, 2016 11:25:04 GMT
Snowsilver, I'm very sorry for the loss of your father.
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Post by mollycoddle on Nov 23, 2016 11:43:07 GMT
I missed that somehow. Elise, I'm very sorry about your father.
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Post by mollycoddle on Nov 23, 2016 11:44:21 GMT
Fascinating. I've been off board for a number of years, and upon a random check it out, I have an oddly strange "been there done that" regarding the convo on this thread. Honestly, it's like rereading 2008 and 2012 all over again! Right? Nothing new. I hope that you check in more often!
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Post by peasapie on Nov 23, 2016 12:13:49 GMT
Snow silver, I'm sorry about your dad. My parents are both gone, and I miss them every day. I know Thanksgiving will be an especially difficult day for you.
To the larger group here. There is something I don't understand about peas of all political persuasion who become offended about responses on political threads and who then leave the board. Why open those threads? To me, it is almost certain one will find very passionate responses during this particularly volatile time. Every where I look on social media, people on both sides are reacting to a candidate who spewed hateful vitriol, so is it at all reasonable to expect people to be thoughtful and measured in their responses? (I don't believe it is.)
There are many other interesting threads on this board. I post in them often. Why not stay away from posts where people are sure to have passionate feelings on one side or the other? This is just not the election to expect civil discourse from varying sides, given the candidate himself has inflamed so many with his rhetoric. I'm not saying not to express opinions. I'm saying that I think public political posts are best left for those with tough hides.
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M in Carolina
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,128
Jun 29, 2014 12:11:41 GMT
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Post by M in Carolina on Nov 23, 2016 12:22:05 GMT
Snowsilver, I'm so sorry you lost your dad. I've been there, and I know how badly that hurts. Even though I've had acute pancreatitis many times, I was shocked at how much my grief hurt physically. I felt like my heart had been sucked out between my ribs.
I don't understand what Pence was doing at Hamilton to begin with. A play about a bisexual politician, with a gay man playing Hamilton. Hamilton was in love with John Laurens--it's not speculation. There are explicit letters from Hamilton to Laurens.
My issue with Pence at Hamilton is his passing of discriminating legislation while he was governor of Indiana. Our constitution is supposed to give *every* person the same freedoms regardless of their beliefs. Legislation allowing discrimination isn't constitutional.
My problem with legislation like this is that if the shoe were on the other foot--a "liberal" governor signed a law making it legal to refuse to serve Christians, there would be outrage and pandemonium about the persecution of Christians. --and it would be persecution. But these people are supporting legislation taking away those same rights from another group of people. But it's "ok" because those people are *wrong*.
So when an intolerant politician goes to a play about another politician, ironically, dealing with the same issues of discrimination that the intolerant politician supported, what happened was kharmic and poetic justice. It was other citizens booing Pence. NOT the cast. The writers and actors addressed Pence incredibly politely and kindly. Much more kindly and politely than many, many conservative Christians have addressed LGBTGs.
This whole thing just shows how tone deaf Trump and Pence really are. Pence has alined himself with a horrible human being. One that has no respect for anyone and outspoken hatred of many people--mostly women--which, ironically, 99.999% of the posters belong to that group.
But when posters point out the hypocrisy of supporting such horrible politicians that are the antithesis of who Jesus is and what Christians should represent, we're accused of being bullies. Again, for the 1,999,9999th time, you don't have to support HRC. However, when you support Trump and say he's God's chosen leader, I'm going to disagree with you as strongly as I can. Respectfully--but I'll be totally honest, respect is quite a stretch.
Please, think about the seeds you're sowing. Supporting a racist, homophobic, misogynistic, Islamaphobe, isn't going to go well for you. When you support politicians and legislation that takes away the rights of certain people, those rights can then be taken away from you.
And for those pre-rapture Christians out there. That's going to happen. And you'll have nobody else to blame but yourselves because you supported the persecution of others.
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Deleted
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May 20, 2024 14:10:59 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2016 14:11:31 GMT
As humiliated as an LGBT person who is told daily that they're unnatural and depraved? Humiliated like that? I am not Mike Pence. I said "I" would be humiliated. My sister is LGBT and my nephew is transgender so please do not preach to me about tolerance. Some people have expressed - not here - that the vice-president elect should expect it. And I'm sure that's true. But I personally would have been humiliated if I had been called out like that, particularly since no one knows for sure what's in my heart. Nothing I said deserved that response from you. What I thought merited a response was Pence might be humiliated (based on extrapolating from how you would feel humiliated). And I pointed out that he obviously doesn't care about the humiliated feelings of men and women who just want to live and love the one person that they have found to share their life with.
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Post by scrapsotime on Nov 23, 2016 16:06:42 GMT
I thought we were throwing political correctness out the window.
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Post by crimsoncat05 on Nov 23, 2016 16:25:20 GMT
^^^ haha! for the win!
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M in Carolina
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,128
Jun 29, 2014 12:11:41 GMT
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Post by M in Carolina on Nov 23, 2016 17:35:16 GMT
When people booed Pence when he entered the theatre, he says that he nudged his kids and told them it was the 'sound of freedom'.
I'm officially impressed. Maybe there's a teensy, tiny glimmer of hope yet.
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M in Carolina
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,128
Jun 29, 2014 12:11:41 GMT
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Post by M in Carolina on Nov 23, 2016 17:51:19 GMT
I still can't believe that Trump is so thin skinned about all this. It's crazypants.
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Deleted
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May 20, 2024 14:10:59 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2016 18:01:10 GMT
It seems Brandon Dixon has an interesting twitter history: Daily Mail LinkSnopes validated the St Patty's Day tweet: Snopes
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Deleted
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May 20, 2024 14:10:59 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2016 18:03:42 GMT
Snow silver, I'm sorry about your dad. My parents are both gone, and I miss them every day. I know Thanksgiving will be an especially difficult day for you. To the larger group here. There is something I don't understand about peas of all political persuasion who become offended about responses on political threads and who then leave the board. Why open those threads? To me, it is almost certain one will find very passionate responses during this particularly volatile time. Every where I look on social media, people on both sides are reacting to a candidate who spewed hateful vitriol, so is it at all reasonable to expect people to be thoughtful and measured in their responses? (I don't believe it is.)
There are many other interesting threads on this board. I post in them often. Why not stay away from posts where people are sure to have passionate feelings on one side or the other? This is just not the election to expect civil discourse from varying sides, given the candidate himself has inflamed so many with his rhetoric. I'm not saying not to express opinions. I'm saying that I think public political posts are best left for those with tough hides. I think it's unreasonable to expect reasonable (even passionate, reasonable) Peas to decline to participate, so that the unreasonable assholes can take over threads in an attempt to personally destroy any Pea who doesn't hold the "correct" viewpoint.
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tincin
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,368
Jul 25, 2014 4:55:32 GMT
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Post by tincin on Nov 23, 2016 18:51:13 GMT
I thought we were throwing political correctness out the window. That's only allowed if you voted for the cgc. For liberals, not so much. We're bullies, or haven't you heard?
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Deleted
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May 20, 2024 14:10:59 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2016 20:28:24 GMT
It is the constitutional right of Muslims to believe in Allah. Etcetera. yep, they can believe in the non existent Allah... that doesn't change our constitution. Let me educate you , my dear, "Allah" in Arabic IS God. Hate to break it to ya, but Muslims worship the God of Abraham, which I am pretty sure is the same God you worship. I KNOW God exists. How about you? I hope he blesses you all the same.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 20, 2024 14:10:59 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2016 20:42:33 GMT
snowsilver, my condolences on the loss of your father. My prayers to you and your family.
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Post by DinCA on Nov 24, 2016 6:56:52 GMT
While it is still his show, he is London right now. Once he was informed that Pence requested tickets that afternoon, he and Tommy Kail (the director) wrote the statement together. Thanks, Sarah. I did not know he was out of town. It makes sense now. SaveSave
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Post by DinCA on Nov 24, 2016 7:02:27 GMT
I am not Mike Pence. I said "I" would be humiliated. My sister is LGBT and my nephew is transgender so please do not preach to me about tolerance. Some people have expressed - not here - that the vice-president elect should expect it. And I'm sure that's true. But I personally would have been humiliated if I had been called out like that, particularly since no one knows for sure what's in my heart. Nothing I said deserved that response from you. What I thought merited a response was Pence might be humiliated (based on extrapolating from how you would feel humiliated). And I pointed out that he obviously doesn't care about the humiliated feelings of men and women who just want to live and love the one person that they have found to share their life with. Thank you for that clarification. Maybe he is used to it, considering his views. I am hoping that he is now, based on the very idea he went to that particular show with his daughter, open to the rights of the LGBTQ community. I personally do not agree with views he has expressed in the past. SaveSave
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Post by DinCA on Nov 24, 2016 7:15:45 GMT
To the larger group here. There is something I don't understand about peas of all political persuasion who become offended about responses on political threads and who then leave the board. Why open those threads? To me, it is almost certain one will find very passionate responses during this particularly volatile time. Every where I look on social media, people on both sides are reacting to a candidate who spewed hateful vitriol, so is it at all reasonable to expect people to be thoughtful and measured in their responses? (I don't believe it is.) Regarding political threads, I am like a moth drawn to the flame, which is why I put myself into a self-imposed timeout for a little over two months. I didn't hair flip or delete my account. I just didn't participate. I found them to be maddening and it was affecting my real life so I did what was best for me. That said, because I love a great political discussion - many of which I enjoyed here previous to this election - I am willing to try it again and see how it goes.
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Post by DinCA on Nov 24, 2016 7:16:56 GMT
snowsilver, I am so sorry to hear about your dad. I'll be thinking about you this weekend. Hugs!
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Nov 24, 2016 12:01:28 GMT
I thought we were throwing political correctness out the window. That's only allowed if you voted for the cgc. For liberals, not so much. We're bullies, or haven't you heard? Apparently now we're "assholes" too according to Gia. And I thought the republican conservatives were so perfectly polite and abhorred name calling. Smh.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Nov 24, 2016 12:03:23 GMT
Snow silver, I'm sorry about your dad. My parents are both gone, and I miss them every day. I know Thanksgiving will be an especially difficult day for you. To the larger group here. There is something I don't understand about peas of all political persuasion who become offended about responses on political threads and who then leave the board. Why open those threads? To me, it is almost certain one will find very passionate responses during this particularly volatile time. Every where I look on social media, people on both sides are reacting to a candidate who spewed hateful vitriol, so is it at all reasonable to expect people to be thoughtful and measured in their responses? (I don't believe it is.)
There are many other interesting threads on this board. I post in them often. Why not stay away from posts where people are sure to have passionate feelings on one side or the other? This is just not the election to expect civil discourse from varying sides, given the candidate himself has inflamed so many with his rhetoric. I'm not saying not to express opinions. I'm saying that I think public political posts are best left for those with tough hides. I think it's unreasonable to expect reasonable (even passionate, reasonable) Peas to decline to participate, so that the unreasonable assholes can take over threads in an attempt to personally destroy any Pea who doesn't hold the "correct" viewpoint.
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AmeliaBloomer
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,842
Location: USA
Jun 26, 2014 5:01:45 GMT
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Post by AmeliaBloomer on Nov 24, 2016 15:08:39 GMT
While it is still his show, he is London right now. Once he was informed that Pence requested tickets that afternoon, he and Tommy Kail (the director) wrote the statement together. Thanks, Sarah. I did not know he was out of town. It makes sense now. SaveSaveAnd the account I read (New York Times, I think) was a little different: (paraphrasing) Miranda and the director and a producer wrote the statement with input from the cast. Of course, we don't know if Miranda's presence in NY would have changed things, but I think it's important to remember that while he's the creator/composer/lyricist of the play, the production is a creative collaboration. My guess is that the an actor reading the statement on stage with first person plural wording ("We are..." "We hope...") was supposed to reflect that collaboration.
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tincin
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,368
Jul 25, 2014 4:55:32 GMT
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Post by tincin on Nov 24, 2016 19:39:47 GMT
That's only allowed if you voted for the cgc. For liberals, not so much. We're bullies, or haven't you heard? Apparently now we're "assholes" too according to Gia. And I thought the republican conservatives were so perfectly polite and abhorred name calling. Smh. Nope, now they are tired of being PC and are going to "tell it like it is." If I had a dollar for every time my conservative friends told me that is why they voted for him, I would be rich. Funny it didn't apply when I said he was a racist, sexist, etc. Save
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