Deleted
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May 20, 2024 14:41:35 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2016 20:13:16 GMT
Hmmmm... probably years of Threads like theseand the dozens and dozens and dozens in between threads like these
and these.I've seen, heard and experienced passionate discussion, but never personal attacks for having the "wrong opinion", and on top of that, then being condemned for objecting to be treated that way. I've also never experienced the interpretation here of what constitutes racism, xenophobia, homophobia, sexism, etc anywhere but here. I've never in my life, outside of here, seen anyone claim those based on nothing more than difference of opinion on how to accomplish the same desired outcome and we've seen that plenty here. Discussion doesn't really happen here. All discussions end up with the majority of voices coming from the Left and drowning out the voices on the Right with statements that are meant to silence. Eventually they all boil down to "you're a RACIST, SEXIST, BROWN PEOPLE HATING, XENOPHOBIC, MYSOGYNISTIC, HOMOPHOBE, topped off with such predictable accusations of "tit for tat" "you're frothing" "you need help" "I don't like your source" as well as the never ending list of ways (ranging anywhere from "subtle" nastiness, all the way to outright viciousness) to personally attack those that won't bend to "your" way of thinking. It's been asked, answered and explained here many times, by many Peas, especially in the last few months. I don't know why "you" refuse to hear it. Gia, most of us on the left refuse to engage with you any more because you have been so consistently ugly to us, so I don't really think you've got room to talk. If we're supposedly shutting you down as racist/sexist etc., then you're constantly shutting us down as "bullies" for standing up for what we believe in. Frankly I'm tired of being called a bully because I'm standing up for those who are truly oppressed in this country (newsflash: it's not the straight, white Christians). My question to wingnut pertained to this thread, which seemed to be what she was responding to, but congratulations on your well-maintained spreadsheet. No. I remain civil and respectful in stating my views. I'm almost always told I'm wrong. If I feel I'm right, I back up my views (if I haven't already) and always try to remain civil and respectful. I have to, because if I'm not that will become the focus and not the subject. I've even been complimented on it by a couple on the Left. As a rule, if I'm shown to be wrong, I acknowledge it. Something a lot of people here refuse to do. If I still believe I'm right and say why, often times, (if they haven't already) that's when the personal attacks come, often accompanied by a pile on. I try to remain civil in defending myself, but I do defend myself and turning the mirror back on the attacker might not be pleasant to hear, but I try to remain civil. I don't have the luxury of the sheer numbers the Left has backing them up that they can say anything and be as rude as they feel like and use personal attacks and still have lots of people backing them up. Your post just backs that up. I stated what the problem is and that gets the label of being "so consistently ugly to us". Those are the facts of the matter. If you feel they're wrong, you don't need a "spreadsheet" to prove it. Just use the very convenient, easy to use search feature this board provides and link to prove your point that I've "been so consistently ugly to us". If that's the case, I'm sure there are lots of proof. That isn't why people call others here a bully and you damn well know it. For the 875,000,000th time, calling people names, degrading them, dismissing their view and diminishing them in so many ways, is the reason. Your continued refusal to acknowledge that is on you and anyone else that does so. And by the way, for 3000th time, that way will NEVER get anyone to see your side.
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rodeomom
Pearl Clutcher
Refupee # 380 "I don't have to run fast, I just have to run faster than you."
Posts: 3,661
Location: Chickasaw Nation, Oklahoma
Jun 25, 2014 23:34:38 GMT
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Post by rodeomom on Nov 21, 2016 20:13:45 GMT
Last week I left the board as krazyscrapper and this week I'm back as fred. I didn't leave because in a two day period I was called a sanctimonious over the top liberal elitist. I left because I got tried of the words I was reading, not the "tone" but the words. I found them as depressing as hell. So I left. Yesterday morning I read a comment by a friend on Facebook that reminded me of what was going on here and in the country in general. Leading up to the election she made some political comments that surprised me only because she had not been very political in the past. Of course there were those who heartily disagreed with her and so she is taking a break from Facebook. Just like what is happening here and the rest of the country. Her comments gave me something to ponder. I believe that very few of us want to have a real discussion. Too many of us always want to be right and we don't want anyone proving us wrong. Too many of us look at things as black & white or either or. In our quest to always be right we quit talking to each other and instead talk past each other. Feelings get hurt, accusations are made, and we quit engaging. On this board, on Facebook, and in real life. And I think not engaging is a mistake and that is why I'm back. I think we can all agree this country has problems. If people quit engaging how can we find a way to fix this mess we are in? We all have our black and white topics. Mine happens to be guns. @lynlam is convinced I want the government to come and take away your guns. Well @lynlam is half right. I want guns gone but what I want is for gun owners to have a "come to Jesus meeting" and happily decide to get rid of their guns. Well that is not going to happen. But in reading the comments about gun ownership and why some folks have guns I have better understanding of why some folks do have a need to own a gun. My favorite story is the pea who said she had rifle to keep rattlesnakes off her driveway. Well yea. If I hadn't engaged with other peas on this board about guns I wouldn't have seen another point of view that I can see has merit. I may disagree with 95% of gun owners' views but agreeing with 5% is a start to change on how I see guns and gun ownership. A more realistic view that I wouldn't have had if I decided not to engage. By not engaging how how do we learn things? I started a thread about jobs. I posted an op ed that made the case a real threat to US jobs is technology. I happen to agree with that and added my own 2 cents that not only is technology a threat to US jobs so is the fact for US companies the greatest potential for growth is outside the US and businesses have to make decisions based on that fact. The thread didn't get that much traction but a couple of peas made comments that shows , to me anyhow, just how complex the job market is. One comment was there were plenty of tech jobs available but for some reason weren't being filled. And, in this age of applications being submitted on line through a third party, maybe the most qualified are being rejected because of some algorithm. This makes me think the jobs are there but in the wrong place and maybe it's time to go back to the old fashion way of reviewing job applications. To me these are issues that need to be addressed and are not being addressed by the decision makers. Two of the issues I hadn't thought of and wouldn't have if I hadn't engaged with others on this board. What we do with this new found knowledge and belief is up to the individual. Hopefully it will make its way to what we want from our local, state, and federal politicians and we can reach a common ground we can all agree on. But nothing is going to happen if we don't engage but instead choose to sit silent in the corner. So I will voice my opinions and I will post opinion pieces or factual pieces to make my case. Folks will agree or disagree. Some will "consider the source" and scroll on by. But that is ok because I made the decision to engage. As to the topic at hand. We are a free society and as such we can voice our first amendment right of free speech. Trump/Pence have, in my opinion, dangerous views about how our country should be. To achieve their vision they are targeting certain segments of our society. Many of whom are members of the Hamiliton cast. To me they had every right right to voice their concern to one of the two men who have this misguided vision. Same with the booing from the audience As to the "right" place. If Pence had walked into the the theater and there was nothing but cheers and the Hamiliton cast had made a glowing speech on how great Pence is we wouldn't be having this discussion. But because some booed we are. Why is it "ok" to cheer a person at a theatre and not boo them? Are not cheering and booing a form of expressing their opinion about somebody? Why do we need the "right" place to express one type of opinion but another? Glad you came back!
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Nov 21, 2016 20:22:02 GMT
Hmmmm... probably years of Threads like theseand the dozens and dozens and dozens in between threads like these
and these.I've seen, heard and experienced passionate discussion, but never personal attacks for having the "wrong opinion", and on top of that, then being condemned for objecting to be treated that way. I've also never experienced the interpretation here of what constitutes racism, xenophobia, homophobia, sexism, etc anywhere but here. I've never in my life, outside of here, seen anyone claim those based on nothing more than difference of opinion on how to accomplish the same desired outcome and we've seen that plenty here. Discussion doesn't really happen here. All discussions end up with the majority of voices coming from the Left and drowning out the voices on the Right with statements that are meant to silence. Eventually they all boil down to "you're a RACIST, SEXIST, BROWN PEOPLE HATING, XENOPHOBIC, MYSOGYNISTIC, HOMOPHOBE, topped off with such predictable accusations of "tit for tat" "you're frothing" "you need help" "I don't like your source" as well as the never ending list of ways (ranging anywhere from "subtle" nastiness, all the way to outright viciousness) to personally attack those that won't bend to "your" way of thinking. It's been asked, answered and explained here many times, by many Peas, especially in the last few months. I don't know why "you" refuse to hear it. Gia, most of us on the left refuse to engage with you any more because you have been so consistently ugly to us, so I don't really think you've got room to talk. If we're supposedly shutting you down as racist/sexist etc., then you're constantly shutting us down as "bullies" for standing up for what we believe in. Frankly I'm tired of being called a bully because I'm standing up for those who are truly oppressed in this country (newsflash: it's not the straight, white Christians). My question to wingnut pertained to this thread, which seemed to be what she was responding to, but congratulations on your well-maintained spreadsheet. You are right mergeleft. I'm tired too!! Thank you.
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Post by snowsilver on Nov 21, 2016 20:22:07 GMT
Krazy/Fred, I'm not going to quote you because it WAS long . But I want to say thank you. I'm glad you came back and I'm glad you are tough enough to want to engage. I really appreciate the way you worded what you said. You and I almost never agree on anything. We probably never will. But how very MUCH I appreciate your willingness to actually discuss without name-calling. I've almost stopped engaging here as has almost all the conservative voices. We're called "butt hurt" if we stop talking, but honestly it just gets tiresome when all you get is "you're a racist, a moron, uneducated" etc. etc. which is pretty much how it has gone here for a long, long time. I actually admire Gia for her willingness to take the abuse that is thrown at her. I have never seen her throw out the ugly names, but she still gets accused of being an ugly conservative. I can easily name about five liberals who are far more nasty than she has ever been, but they just don't see it. SO, that said, I very very much appreciate the tone of your post. If most (we can't hope for all) of the Peas on BOTH sides of the debate would come to the table with your attitude, we might all actually learn from each other. THANK YOU!!!!!!
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Post by beebee on Nov 21, 2016 20:36:51 GMT
Fred, that was the best post I have ever read from you. I could not disagree with you more on every issue, but I do think it is possible to discuss things politely if people would only choose to do it. And like you, I like hearing the views from the other side.
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Post by refugeepea on Nov 21, 2016 21:19:46 GMT
I still think it's funny that the conservatives are the ones who get all butthurt on these threads, when they're the first to accuse liberals of needing a "safe space." Get your big girl panties on, or stick to the pressure cooker threads.It's comments like these that shut down any kind of discussion. I don't fit the conservative or liberal category. I could not stomach voting for Trump or Clinton. It baffles me, truly baffles me why they were the top 2 choices. Can you not see how this shuts out a lot of independent voters? Political threads have become nothing but liberals giving each other high fives and conservative peas leaving the political threads or even the board. They leave because they were "intolerant" They are all butthurt. They need to go find their own "safe space". The liberal peas leave because.... well it's okay that they left. I KNOW there are assholes on both sides. I KNOW that the liberal peas were told a lot of shit when Obama was president. What I did see was the ability to discuss. What I did see was the loudest, most quoted conservatives were their own brand of crazy. I saw this on the liberal side as well. Now, if you voted for Trump, you are the absolute scum of the earth; every.single.person. What's the point in baiting the Trump voters with a political thread...Trump voters tell me why? When there will be no good discussion. What's the point of having independent voters say anything where they might, possibly might see things from a conservative side as well? Because they immediately have become racist, misogynistic, xenophobic....
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River
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,515
Location: Alabama
Jun 26, 2014 15:26:04 GMT
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Post by River on Nov 21, 2016 21:22:27 GMT
I try not to post on political threads because I AM thinned skinned, but I just have to say... I'm really glad you are back @fred and your post was awesome! (even the points I didn't agree with ) Thank you for coming back!!
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Post by Merge on Nov 21, 2016 21:53:17 GMT
I still think it's funny that the conservatives are the ones who get all butthurt on these threads, when they're the first to accuse liberals of needing a "safe space." Get your big girl panties on, or stick to the pressure cooker threads.It's comments like these that shut down any kind of discussion. I don't fit the conservative or liberal category. I could not stomach voting for Trump or Clinton. It baffles me, truly baffles me why they were the top 2 choices. Can you not see how this shuts out a lot of independent voters? Political threads have become nothing but liberals giving each other high fives and conservative peas leaving the political threads or even the board. They leave because they were "intolerant" They are all butthurt. They need to go find their own "safe space". The liberal peas leave because.... well it's okay that they left. I KNOW there are assholes on both sides. I KNOW that the liberal peas were told a lot of shit when Obama was president. What I did see was the ability to discuss. What I did see was the loudest, most quoted conservatives were their own brand of crazy. I saw this on the liberal side as well. Now, if you voted for Trump, you are the absolute scum of the earth; every.single.person. What's the point in baiting the Trump voters with a political thread...Trump voters tell me why? When there will be no good discussion. What's the point of having independent voters say anything where they might, possibly might see things from a conservative side as well? Because they immediately have become racist, misogynistic, xenophobic.... How did this thread bait anyone? It stated a factual recent happening and opened up discussion. Plenty of people on both sides had their say. Honestly, it was a conversation until wingnut suddenly decided she didn't feel welcome. I honestly don't know what you want me to say. I feel like everything you're accusing me of is exactly what you're doing to me - shutting down my point of view. I'm not allowed to say how I feel because it will run off the conservatives or the independents. Why is my POV less valid than yours? Stating my opinion is not shutting down conversation. Accusing people of shutting down conversation - talking about the conversation rather than just continuing it - is shutting down conversation. It seems to me that no one is ever allowed to disagree with you and to state that. No one is ever allowed to say something actually is racist or misogynist. How is that not shutting down conversation, if I'm limited in the types of opinions I can have? Conservatives/independents/whoever can voice their opinion that all Muslims coming into the country should be considered potentially dangerous and subject to extreme vetting or banned entirely, but I can't voice that I think that's wrong and discriminatory? Can you really not see the double standard there?
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Post by Merge on Nov 21, 2016 22:03:05 GMT
Gia, most of us on the left refuse to engage with you any more because you have been so consistently ugly to us, so I don't really think you've got room to talk. If we're supposedly shutting you down as racist/sexist etc., then you're constantly shutting us down as "bullies" for standing up for what we believe in. Frankly I'm tired of being called a bully because I'm standing up for those who are truly oppressed in this country (newsflash: it's not the straight, white Christians). My question to wingnut pertained to this thread, which seemed to be what she was responding to, but congratulations on your well-maintained spreadsheet. No. I remain civil and respectful in stating my views. I'm almost always told I'm wrong. If I feel I'm right, I back up my views (if I haven't already) and always try to remain civil and respectful. I have to, because if I'm not that will become the focus and not the subject. I've even been complimented on it by a couple on the Left. As a rule, if I'm shown to be wrong, I acknowledge it. Something a lot of people here refuse to do. If I still believe I'm right and say why, often times, (if they haven't already) that's when the personal attacks come, often accompanied by a pile on. I try to remain civil in defending myself, but I do defend myself and turning the mirror back on the attacker might not be pleasant to hear, but I try to remain civil. I don't have the luxury of the sheer numbers the Left has backing them up that they can say anything and be as rude as they feel like and use personal attacks and still have lots of people backing them up. Your post just backs that up. I stated what the problem is and that gets the label of being "so consistently ugly to us". Those are the facts of the matter. If you feel they're wrong, you don't need a "spreadsheet" to prove it. Just use the very convenient, easy to use search feature this board provides and link to prove your point that I've "been so consistently ugly to us". If that's the case, I'm sure there are lots of proof. That isn't why people call others here a bully and you damn well know it. For the 875,000,000th time, calling people names, degrading them, dismissing their view and diminishing them in so many ways, is the reason. Your continued refusal to acknowledge that is on you and anyone else that does so. And by the way, for 3000th time, that way will NEVER get anyone to see your side. Calling me a bully, dismissing my view that certain things that are happening in the country right now are racist and wrong, degrading me by being ugly (and yes you HAVE, Gia - don't lie - there was an extremely ugly pile-on toward me a few months ago for starters) and generally telling me that my views aren't OK is exactly what you're accusing me of doing to you. And it doesn't convince me to see YOUR side, either. I get to have my opinions and I get to voice them. You don't have to like it, and I don't have to like yours. But please don't pretend that you are the poor, innocent wounded party in all this. People don't react to you the way they do because you're just here politely expressing your conservative views. You get the reaction you do because of your passive-aggressive circular "gotcha" arguments, that frequently devolve into accusations of bullying when you are called out on them.
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Deleted
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May 20, 2024 14:41:35 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2016 22:03:07 GMT
Krazy/Fred, I'm not going to quote you because it WAS long . But I want to say thank you. I'm glad you came back and I'm glad you are tough enough to want to engage. I really appreciate the way you worded what you said. You and I almost never agree on anything. We probably never will. But how very MUCH I appreciate your willingness to actually discuss without name-calling. I've almost stopped engaging here as has almost all the conservative voices. We're called "butt hurt" if we stop talking, but honestly it just gets tiresome when all you get is "you're a racist, a moron, uneducated" etc. etc. which is pretty much how it has gone here for a long, long time. I actually admire Gia for her willingness to take the abuse that is thrown at her. I have never seen her throw out the ugly names, but she still gets accused of being an ugly conservative. I can easily name about five liberals who are far more nasty than she has ever been, but they just don't see it. SO, that said, I very very much appreciate the tone of your post. If most (we can't hope for all) of the Peas on BOTH sides of the debate would come to the table with your attitude, we might all actually learn from each other. THANK YOU!!!!!! I really want to agree with you on this snowsilver, but krazy/fred was one of the first offenders when it came to calling Trump voters names like stupid and idiots. She did it over and over again, doubled down when called out on it, and then even got rude and nasty with other peas who agreed with her politically. It's nice that you appreciate those who don't name call, but krazy/fred definitely wasn't one of them. Hopefully, she'll change her ways.
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Post by Merge on Nov 21, 2016 22:11:02 GMT
I've almost stopped engaging here as has almost all the conservative voices. We're called "butt hurt" if we stop talking, but honestly it just gets tiresome when all you get is "you're a racist, a moron, uneducated" etc. etc. which is pretty much how it has gone here for a long, long time. No, I used the term "butthurt" to describe people who seem to flounce off when others don't agree with them. I guess I could have been more polite, but honestly, what word would you use? I think a lot of the problem here is that people have difficulty discerning the difference between "your candidate is a racist moron" (admittedly said frequently) and "you personally are a racist moron" (said very rarely here and by very few people as far as I know, and definitely never by me). I'm not sure why that is. Plenty of conservatives here have referred to Hillary as a liar, criminal, cheater, etc. and I have never thought they were applying those terms to me personally.
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Post by snowsilver on Nov 21, 2016 22:21:50 GMT
I'm going to answer you directly on this Merge. There was a thread several weeks ago. I had almost stopped posting here because truly it was nasty towards the conservative--PERSONALLY nasty. And my father had just died and quite frankly I wasn't in a place where I wanted to handle direct insults towards me or my opinions. I was in a place where I knew that I could get "butt hurt" so I had not participated here for a long, long time. But there were a couple threads that I really wanted to get involved in and so I dipped my toe in. I expressed the fact (and I did it politely) that I wished we could all stop and listen to each other rather than call names. I didn't whine or anything like that. A couple liberal Peas responded very nicely and asked me to express WHY I might consider voting for Trump (I had said I was voting for the platform--not the candidate). They asked what there was on the platform that I liked. I was all ready to type out my opinions when you came on the thread and did the "oh here we go again--conservatives getting all butt hurt if anyone hurts their little feelings" or something along that line. I just quietly closed the box where I was typing my response to the platform question and stopped posting again. Several people called me out later in the thread and asked why I didn't come back and answer the question--but you know what--it wasn't worth it! I was already raw with dealing my my dad's death and I simply walked away again. And that was YOU, Merge. Not that you are the only one. So, yes, it does get personal. And I wish it wouldn't.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Nov 21, 2016 22:23:16 GMT
It's comments like these that shut down any kind of discussion. I don't fit the conservative or liberal category. I could not stomach voting for Trump or Clinton. It baffles me, truly baffles me why they were the top 2 choices. Can you not see how this shuts out a lot of independent voters? Political threads have become nothing but liberals giving each other high fives and conservative peas leaving the political threads or even the board. They leave because they were "intolerant" They are all butthurt. They need to go find their own "safe space". The liberal peas leave because.... well it's okay that they left. I KNOW there are assholes on both sides. I KNOW that the liberal peas were told a lot of shit when Obama was president. What I did see was the ability to discuss. What I did see was the loudest, most quoted conservatives were their own brand of crazy. I saw this on the liberal side as well. Now, if you voted for Trump, you are the absolute scum of the earth; every.single.person. What's the point in baiting the Trump voters with a political thread...Trump voters tell me why? When there will be no good discussion. What's the point of having independent voters say anything where they might, possibly might see things from a conservative side as well? Because they immediately have become racist, misogynistic, xenophobic.... How did this thread bait anyone? It stated a factual recent happening and opened up discussion. Plenty of people on both sides had their say. Honestly, it was a conversation until wingnut suddenly decided she didn't feel welcome. I honestly don't know what you want me to say. I feel like everything you're accusing me of is exactly what you're doing to me - shutting down my point of view. I'm not allowed to say how I feel because it will run off the conservatives or the independents. Why is my POV less valid than yours? Stating my opinion is not shutting down conversation. Accusing people of shutting down conversation - talking about the conversation rather than just continuing it - is shutting down conversation. It seems to me that no one is ever allowed to disagree with you and to state that. No one is ever allowed to say something actually is racist or misogynist. How is that not shutting down conversation, if I'm limited in the types of opinions I can have? Conservatives/independents/whoever can voice their opinion that all Muslims coming into the country should be considered potentially dangerous and subject to extreme vetting or banned entirely, but I can't voice that I think that's wrong and discriminatory? Can you really not see the double standard there? Exactly!!! Plus couple it with the fact that not every liberal here has said all those things about conservatives!!! Not all lumped in and right now the only ones saying that EVERY AND ALL TRUMP SUPPORTERS ARE THOSE THINGS. many conservatives don't want discussions--they want anyone who doesn't believe what they do to sit down, shut up and take it. I'm tired of being told that conservatives in office know what's best for everyone.
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rodeomom
Pearl Clutcher
Refupee # 380 "I don't have to run fast, I just have to run faster than you."
Posts: 3,661
Location: Chickasaw Nation, Oklahoma
Jun 25, 2014 23:34:38 GMT
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Post by rodeomom on Nov 21, 2016 22:25:32 GMT
I'm going to answer you directly on this Merge. There was a thread several weeks ago. I had almost stopped posting here because truly it was nasty towards the conservative--PERSONALLY nasty. And my father had just died and quite frankly I wasn't in a place where I wanted to handle direct insults towards me or my opinions. I was in a place where I knew that I could get "butt hurt" so I had not participated here for a long, long time. But there were a couple threads that I really wanted to get involved in and so I dipped my toe in. I expressed the fact (and I did it politely) that I wished we could all stop and listen to each other rather than call names. I didn't whine or anything like that. A couple liberal Peas responded very nicely and asked me to express WHY I might consider voting for Trump (I had said I was voting for the platform--not the candidate). They asked what there was on the platform that I liked. I was all ready to type out my opinions when you came on the thread and did the "oh here we go again--conservatives getting all butt hurt if anyone hurts their little feelings" or something along that line. I just quietly closed the box where I was typing my response to the platform question and stopped posting again. Several people called me out later in the thread and asked my I didn't come back and answer the question--but you know what--it wasn't worth it! I was already raw with dealing my my dad's death and I simply walked away again. And that was YOU, Merge. Not that you are the only one. So, yes, it does get personal. And I wish it wouldn't. I'm sorry about your Dad.
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Post by snowsilver on Nov 21, 2016 22:25:49 GMT
Krazy/Fred, I'm not going to quote you because it WAS long . But I want to say thank you. I'm glad you came back and I'm glad you are tough enough to want to engage. I really appreciate the way you worded what you said. You and I almost never agree on anything. We probably never will. But how very MUCH I appreciate your willingness to actually discuss without name-calling. I've almost stopped engaging here as has almost all the conservative voices. We're called "butt hurt" if we stop talking, but honestly it just gets tiresome when all you get is "you're a racist, a moron, uneducated" etc. etc. which is pretty much how it has gone here for a long, long time. I actually admire Gia for her willingness to take the abuse that is thrown at her. I have never seen her throw out the ugly names, but she still gets accused of being an ugly conservative. I can easily name about five liberals who are far more nasty than she has ever been, but they just don't see it. SO, that said, I very very much appreciate the tone of your post. If most (we can't hope for all) of the Peas on BOTH sides of the debate would come to the table with your attitude, we might all actually learn from each other. THANK YOU!!!!!! I really want to agree with you on this snowsilver , but krazy/fred was one of the first offenders when it came to calling Trump voters names like stupid and idiots. She did it over and over again, doubled down when called out on it, and then even got rude and nasty with other peas who agreed with her politically. It's nice that you appreciate those who don't name call, but krazy/fred definitely wasn't one of them. Hopefully, she'll change her ways. Well, you may be right. Somehow in my mind krazy/fred is one of the liberals who is VERY, VERY liberal without actually being nasty to the other side. Yes, she can be painfully pointed--the the degree that one feels it isn't worth engaging with her, but I myself have never put her on the really mean liberal list .
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oh yvonne
Prolific Pea
Posts: 8,003
Jun 26, 2014 0:45:23 GMT
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Post by oh yvonne on Nov 21, 2016 22:27:22 GMT
Awe Elise, <hugs> you darling. Love you to bits.
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mimima
Drama Llama
Stay Gold, Ponyboy
Posts: 5,020
Jun 25, 2014 19:25:50 GMT
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Post by mimima on Nov 21, 2016 22:28:08 GMT
I'm sorry to hear, snowsilver. May his Memory be Eternal.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 20, 2024 14:41:35 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2016 22:29:40 GMT
I really want to agree with you on this snowsilver , but krazy/fred was one of the first offenders when it came to calling Trump voters names like stupid and idiots. She did it over and over again, doubled down when called out on it, and then even got rude and nasty with other peas who agreed with her politically. It's nice that you appreciate those who don't name call, but krazy/fred definitely wasn't one of them. Hopefully, she'll change her ways. Well, you may be right. Somehow in my mind krazy/fred is one of the liberals who is VERY, VERY liberal without actually being nasty to the other side. Yes, she can be painfully pointed--the the degree that one feels it isn't worth engaging with her, but I myself have never put her on the really mean liberal list . Well, I completely disagree with your opinion of krazyfred as I have watched her be nasty not just to conservatives, but to liberals as well. But I can still respect your opinion, b/c I know you try to give people the benefit of the doubt. I have to admit it's frustrating when some of the very nastiest peas are always defended and coddled, while other people get called out for far, far less nasty behaviors. Such is life, I guess. I also want to send you my condolences on the loss of your father. I've been through that, and it's tough, especially close to the holidays. So I'll send you some good thoughts and hope that you're starting to find comfort in good memories.
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Post by snowsilver on Nov 21, 2016 22:30:19 GMT
Awe Elise, <hugs> you darling. Love you to bits. Aww, Vonnie, love thank you. You know how I feel about you!
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Post by Merge on Nov 21, 2016 22:40:41 GMT
I'm going to answer you directly on this Merge. There was a thread several weeks ago. I had almost stopped posting here because truly it was nasty towards the conservative--PERSONALLY nasty. And my father had just died and quite frankly I wasn't in a place where I wanted to handle direct insults towards me or my opinions. I was in a place where I knew that I could get "butt hurt" so I had not participated here for a long, long time. But there were a couple threads that I really wanted to get involved in and so I dipped my toe in. I expressed the fact (and I did it politely) that I wished we could all stop and listen to each other rather than call names. I didn't whine or anything like that. A couple liberal Peas responded very nicely and asked me to express WHY I might consider voting for Trump (I had said I was voting for the platform--not the candidate). They asked what there was on the platform that I liked. I was all ready to type out my opinions when you came on the thread and did the "oh here we go again--conservatives getting all butt hurt if anyone hurts their little feelings" or something along that line. I just quietly closed the box where I was typing my response to the platform question and stopped posting again. Several people called me out later in the thread and asked why I didn't come back and answer the question--but you know what--it wasn't worth it! I was already raw with dealing my my dad's death and I simply walked away again. And that was YOU, Merge. Not that you are the only one. So, yes, it does get personal. And I wish it wouldn't. First, let me say that I am sorry about your dad. I've lost my parents, too, so I know how painful it is. I did have a quick look back through my posts and found the following, which is what I think you're referring to: This was in response specifically to Gia's continuing assertion a couple of posts above that liberals are running the conservatives off the board. It mentioned "a few" of the conservative peas and in was in no way directed at you. I still think my second paragraph is valid - there are relatively few of us left on either side. I am truly sorry you were hurt by my post. I do not, however, think it was anything close to the blanket statement you claim.
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Post by snowsilver on Nov 21, 2016 22:51:10 GMT
That is it EXACTLY Merge. Thank you for finding it. As I said, this came not too long my own post asking for more civility (or something along that line) and yes, I took it to mean my post since it came not long after I had posted. And I don't think I suggested a "blanket" statement. I think I was trying to say that you DO sometimes make it personal. I have read any number of posts here lately about the long-time conservative Peas who left sort of enmasse recently and most of them have been along the lines of "they couldn't take the heat". That really isn't the case. They left because they felt that there was no point in trying to engage in conversation. To say they were thin-skinned etc. doesn't take into account the fact that every.single.one of them had been here for years and been a big part of the board. If they were that thin-skinned, they would have left years ago. They left because they felt the ability to "discuss" is gone. So I was so GLAD to see krazy's post above. That meant more to me than she will ever know. And Merge, thank YOU for your response too.
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Post by refugeepea on Nov 21, 2016 23:09:14 GMT
How did this thread bait anyone? It stated a factual recent happening and opened up discussion. Plenty of people on both sides had their say. Honestly, it was a conversation until wingnut suddenly decided she didn't feel welcome. I honestly don't know what you want me to say. I feel like everything you're accusing me of is exactly what you're doing to me - shutting down my point of view. I'm not allowed to say how I feel because it will run off the conservatives or the independents. Why is my POV less valid than yours? Stating my opinion is not shutting down conversation. Accusing people of shutting down conversation - talking about the conversation rather than just continuing it - is shutting down conversation. It seems to me that no one is ever allowed to disagree with you and to state that. No one is ever allowed to say something actually is racist or misogynist. How is that not shutting down conversation, if I'm limited in the types of opinions I can have? Conservatives/independents/whoever can voice their opinion that all Muslims coming into the country should be considered potentially dangerous and subject to extreme vetting or banned entirely, but I can't voice that I think that's wrong and discriminatory? Can you really not see the double standard there? I'm sorry, I wasn't more clear. I was talking about the Trump voters threads....tell me why? I honestly don't care what you say. I find it surprising you were surprised that wingnut finally left. It wasn't just this thread. It's mostly every thread since the election. Gia posted some links that I thought were a good example. This is a good example of a positive discussion"Conservatives/independents/whoever can voice their opinion that all Muslims coming into the country should be considered potentially dangerous and subject to extreme vetting or banned entirely, but I can't voice that I think that's wrong and discriminatory?" It does not bother me at all if 2 people from opposing sides said either comment. I don't see that as a double standard. It's one thing to say I see it as wrong and discriminatory vs WOW! What's next interment camps? Banning Islam? Conservatives are so tolerant! All Republicans are incapable of understanding anything. It's the generalized, over the top statements. FTR, I DO see it from both sides. Go on stating what you feel, but there's some people like me that usually stop trying after page two. You can state your opinion, but when there's statements like stick to the instant pot threads, put your big girl panties on, it's obvious the intolerant peas are leaving the board,... a thread is quickly derailed. There goes the meaningful discussion and trying to understand the other side.
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Post by gmcwife1 on Nov 21, 2016 23:32:50 GMT
Last week I left the board as krazyscrapper and this week I'm back as fred. Thanks for the info. It's helpful wrt the ignore feature. Yea, I was thinking the same thing. And someone might realize that many might not say anything about skybar/skypea because she might be on ignore.
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Post by Merge on Nov 21, 2016 23:51:24 GMT
How did this thread bait anyone? It stated a factual recent happening and opened up discussion. Plenty of people on both sides had their say. Honestly, it was a conversation until wingnut suddenly decided she didn't feel welcome. I honestly don't know what you want me to say. I feel like everything you're accusing me of is exactly what you're doing to me - shutting down my point of view. I'm not allowed to say how I feel because it will run off the conservatives or the independents. Why is my POV less valid than yours? Stating my opinion is not shutting down conversation. Accusing people of shutting down conversation - talking about the conversation rather than just continuing it - is shutting down conversation. It seems to me that no one is ever allowed to disagree with you and to state that. No one is ever allowed to say something actually is racist or misogynist. How is that not shutting down conversation, if I'm limited in the types of opinions I can have? Conservatives/independents/whoever can voice their opinion that all Muslims coming into the country should be considered potentially dangerous and subject to extreme vetting or banned entirely, but I can't voice that I think that's wrong and discriminatory? Can you really not see the double standard there? I made those comments in response to people saying (again) what bullies we liberals all are, not anyone's stated conservative opinion. The thread had already been derailed long since by the conservative who inexplicably announced that she didn't feel welcome on this thread.
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Post by Merge on Nov 21, 2016 23:57:45 GMT
How did this thread bait anyone? It stated a factual recent happening and opened up discussion. Plenty of people on both sides had their say. Honestly, it was a conversation until wingnut suddenly decided she didn't feel welcome. I honestly don't know what you want me to say. I feel like everything you're accusing me of is exactly what you're doing to me - shutting down my point of view. I'm not allowed to say how I feel because it will run off the conservatives or the independents. Why is my POV less valid than yours? Stating my opinion is not shutting down conversation. Accusing people of shutting down conversation - talking about the conversation rather than just continuing it - is shutting down conversation. It seems to me that no one is ever allowed to disagree with you and to state that. No one is ever allowed to say something actually is racist or misogynist. How is that not shutting down conversation, if I'm limited in the types of opinions I can have? Conservatives/independents/whoever can voice their opinion that all Muslims coming into the country should be considered potentially dangerous and subject to extreme vetting or banned entirely, but I can't voice that I think that's wrong and discriminatory? Can you really not see the double standard there? I'm sorry, I wasn't more clear. I was talking about the Trump voters threads....tell me why? I honestly don't care what you say. I find it surprising you were surprised that wingnut finally left. It wasn't just this thread. It's mostly every thread since the election. Gia posted some links that I thought were a good example. This is a good example of a positive discussion"Conservatives/independents/whoever can voice their opinion that all Muslims coming into the country should be considered potentially dangerous and subject to extreme vetting or banned entirely, but I can't voice that I think that's wrong and discriminatory?" It does not bother me at all if 2 people from opposing sides said either comment. But the thing is that the bully accusation usually gets whipped out when we make ANY negative response to a conservative's opinion. In the exchange you say is fine above, I would be called a bully for applying the terms wrong and discriminatory to the conservative's opinion. And if enough people agreed with me, the conservative would likely get mad and leave. It happens all the time.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 20, 2024 14:41:35 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2016 0:35:11 GMT
At this point, I'm so over all the accusations of why some of the conservatives left. If they don't like the political threads, they have the same choices as the rest of us: scroll right on by them, stop posting on them and contribute to other topics, or they can leave and blame it all on people that they disagree with. It makes no difference to me anymore. This board will be just fine.
If the fact that liberals will no longer sit down and shut up on political issues bothers them enough that they'll leave the board entirely, that's their choice and I'm good with it. It's unfortunate, but I won't be cowed into apologizing for my opinions or hounded for speaking out about them. Not with what's happening in this country. There are an awful lot of people lately that seem to have trouble distinguishing between lots of people voicing their disagreement and pile-ons or bullying.
There are name callers, excessively snarky peas, serial arguers, LASTWORD hounddogs, and relentless assholes on BOTH sides. The only thing that helps me deal with those minorities is the ignore feature. YMMV and if you need to leave or take a break, then so be it. It happens to lots of us.
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Post by refugeepea on Nov 22, 2016 1:07:26 GMT
But the thing is that the bully accusation usually gets whipped out when we make ANY negative response to a conservative's opinion. In the exchange you say is fine above, I would be called a bully for applying the terms wrong and discriminatory to the conservative's opinion. And if enough people agreed with me, the conservative would likely get mad and leave. It happens all the time. I didn't realize you were responding to bully comments and I was not calling you one. I was pointing out it derailed the thread, but since it already happened I guess you were free to say what you want. This is pointless. You know how things will end.
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flute4peace
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,757
Jul 3, 2014 14:38:35 GMT
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Post by flute4peace on Nov 22, 2016 1:15:46 GMT
I believe that very few of us want to have a real discussion. Too many of us always want to be right and we don't want anyone proving us wrong. Too many of us look at things as black & white or either or. In our quest to always be right we quit talking to each other and instead talk past each other. Feelings get hurt, accusations are made, and we quit engaging. On this board, on Facebook, and in real life. I totally agree with this. I was raised in a home and church that strongly believes in mediation and conflict resolution. To support/have compassion for the underdog. I have a hard time with some of the back & forth here, and I know I've snapped a few times about it - some in good ways and some not.
We need to remind ourselves that this is the internet, we don't know what shoes the other person is standing in when they post.
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Post by mollycoddle on Nov 22, 2016 1:25:59 GMT
But the thing is that the bully accusation usually gets whipped out when we make ANY negative response to a conservative's opinion. In the exchange you say is fine above, I would be called a bully for applying the terms wrong and discriminatory to the conservative's opinion. And if enough people agreed with me, the conservative would likely get mad and leave. It happens all the time. I didn't realize you were responding to bully comments and I was not calling you one. I was pointing out it derailed the thread, but since it already happened I guess you were free to say what you want. This is pointless. You know how things will end. It is true that a few threads got out of hand, especially right after the election, but political threads during a presidential election have always been tough. This is nothing new. The main difference is that there are fewer conservatives here. I guess that they feel like they don't have a voice, and are drowned out by liberals. That is probably true. It seems to me that in the past few days, the harshness has abated somewhat.. I guess that wingnut would disagree. I'm still not sure what upset her about that particular thread. And I feel that you are singling out Merge when in fact many of us have been active participants on political threads. I don't remember an election like this in my lifetime. While many conservatives feel that they have been called names-and yeah, that has definitely happened, liberals are terrified of this man and his VP, as well as some of the people that might be in his Cabinet. So it cuts both ways.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 20, 2024 14:41:35 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2016 19:45:24 GMT
No. I remain civil and respectful in stating my views. I'm almost always told I'm wrong. If I feel I'm right, I back up my views (if I haven't already) and always try to remain civil and respectful. I have to, because if I'm not that will become the focus and not the subject. I've even been complimented on it by a couple on the Left. As a rule, if I'm shown to be wrong, I acknowledge it. Something a lot of people here refuse to do. If I still believe I'm right and say why, often times, (if they haven't already) that's when the personal attacks come, often accompanied by a pile on. I try to remain civil in defending myself, but I do defend myself and turning the mirror back on the attacker might not be pleasant to hear, but I try to remain civil. I don't have the luxury of the sheer numbers the Left has backing them up that they can say anything and be as rude as they feel like and use personal attacks and still have lots of people backing them up. Your post just backs that up. I stated what the problem is and that gets the label of being "so consistently ugly to us". Those are the facts of the matter. If you feel they're wrong, you don't need a "spreadsheet" to prove it. Just use the very convenient, easy to use search feature this board provides and link to prove your point that I've "been so consistently ugly to us". If that's the case, I'm sure there are lots of proof. That isn't why people call others here a bully and you damn well know it. For the 875,000,000th time, calling people names, degrading them, dismissing their view and diminishing them in so many ways, is the reason. Your continued refusal to acknowledge that is on you and anyone else that does so. And by the way, for 3000th time, that way will NEVER get anyone to see your side. Calling me a bully, dismissing my view that certain things that are happening in the country right now are racist and wrong, degrading me by being ugly (and yes you HAVE, Gia - don't lie - there was an extremely ugly pile-on toward me a few months ago for starters) and generally telling me that my views aren't OK is exactly what you're accusing me of doing to you. And it doesn't convince me to see YOUR side, either. I get to have my opinions and I get to voice them. You don't have to like it, and I don't have to like yours. But please don't pretend that you are the poor, innocent wounded party in all this. People don't react to you the way they do because you're just here politely expressing your conservative views. You get the reaction you do because of your passive-aggressive circular "gotcha" arguments, that frequently devolve into accusations of bullying when you are called out on them. I did not call you a bully. I've never done that. You mean this thread where even people on your side were telling you that you were being a condescending jerk along with attributing things to them that they didn't say?I was not ugly to you there at all. I didn't even respond to you to begin with, I was talking to someone else and you responded to me and then later claimed I responded to you first and then you still argued with me when I told you it didn't happen that way, despite the thread being the actual proof. I sometimes think you see things a different way than they actually happened. You had me and at least one other person that you were trying to say things they said or did on that thread that they didn't say or do. And insisting on it, despite the actual thread contradicting you. So don't say I'm lying about being ugly to you and try to list that thread as proof, especially when you very conveniently don't even provide the link, relying on people taking your word for your version of the thread. So there's the link to the thread to contradict your version yet again. If you would listen to ALL of the Peas that have been saying it's not the difference of opinion that anyone has a problem with. It's the condescending attitude, the pile on, the name calling, the demeaning and diminishing of the actual person vs. the viewpoint that makes people not want to engage with you and those that do it. That thread is just one example of you doing that and even people on your own side trying to tell you that you do that.
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