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Post by katlady on Jan 26, 2017 4:50:43 GMT
I understand that some of the border land belongs to one of the Native American tribes, and they are considered a sovereign nation. How is Trump going to build a wall in that area??
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huskergal
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,002
Member is Online
Jun 25, 2014 20:22:13 GMT
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Post by huskergal on Jan 26, 2017 4:55:14 GMT
I have no problem with increasing our border patrol. I think if you allow immigrants easier access to work Visas, not as many would try to come in illegally. I am also bothered by the fact that the only illegals we are concerned with are those that cross our southern border. We have visitors whose Visas have run out who are still here.
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pudgygroundhog
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,643
Location: The Grand Canyon
Jun 25, 2014 20:18:39 GMT
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Post by pudgygroundhog on Jan 26, 2017 4:56:37 GMT
I understand that some of the border land belongs to one of the Native American tribes, and they are considered a sovereign nation. How is Trump going to build a wall in that area?? Send in the Feds!
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~Lauren~
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,876
Jun 26, 2014 3:33:18 GMT
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Post by ~Lauren~ on Jan 26, 2017 4:56:47 GMT
I'm interested in deporting those as well.
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Jan 26, 2017 4:57:26 GMT
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Jan 26, 2017 4:59:09 GMT
I understand that some of the border land belongs to one of the Native American tribes, and they are considered a sovereign nation. How is Trump going to build a wall in that area?? Probably the same way they are making the pipeline over native lands, even with protests that have gone on for months.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Jan 26, 2017 5:05:49 GMT
I find myself rooting against my own country in this scenario. Because my president is totally in the wrong on this. He can't expect another country to pay for his boondoggle. This is all a vanity project for him and we're going to pay for it with funds that could have been used for much-needed programs that would actually help Americans. I still can't believe that so many Americans were fooled by Trump. Oh girl, my cousin told me today that Trump was going to deport my liberal snowflake ass when I expressed doubt that that Mexico could be made to pay for a wall, so a lot of people believe in it. What the plan is essentially to rob Peter to pay Paul. We'll be paying for it however Trump tries to market it. I'm curious if anyone watched his interview this evening and how that might've been addressed. I did. He was asked directly and specifically if US taxpayers were going to pay for it (and then they would try to get paid back) and he evaded answering that question. He stated that Mexico WAS going to pay for it. He stated that they were going to start planning it immediately and that in a few months it would be underway. He said congress is looking for funds to pay for it. (You know, in that secret stash they have...or Trump once said on the campaign trail that more money could always be printed)
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Jan 26, 2017 5:07:25 GMT
Huh. I'm going to make that hungry homeless man who lives under the over-pass near me, pay for my dinner tonight... I have a $10 bill in my wallet. I was going to give the homeless man that $10 bill. Now I'm not giving him the $10 and buying my dinner with it instead. Woohoo, I made a homeless man pay for my dinner! Yeah, a free dinner for me! Is that how it works? In Lauren's math, yup!
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Jan 26, 2017 5:15:58 GMT
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Post by pjaye on Jan 26, 2017 5:19:30 GMT
O M G I just read that whole thing and it's tarrying (ETA: tarrying? no, I meant terrifying!). He's terrifying as a leader of any country, never mind one as powerful as the USA. He's condoning torture, his critics are all fools, he's still butt hurt over the popular vote thing, if the USA has taken all the oil out of Iraq there'd be no ISIS, the CIA all love him...on and on. Most of it makes little sense, lots of promises about things being better and great, but not one single concrete plan. Every time he opens his mouth it gets worse and worse.
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Post by pjaye on Jan 26, 2017 5:20:36 GMT
Well Trump's math too it seems.
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flute4peace
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,757
Jul 3, 2014 14:38:35 GMT
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Post by flute4peace on Jan 26, 2017 5:47:41 GMT
So, can someone answer a serious question I have? You're against the wall; you're against deporting people who are here illegally. How do you propose to deal with the never ending influx of people here illegally? How do you propose to deal with the financial drain on border states? How do you propose to deal with the crimes, the death, the injury and the losses caused by people who are here illegally (some of them whom have entered the country illegally several times?) I think people are turning to a wall because no solutions to these issues are proposed or enacted. Merely saying "enforce the laws better" means nothing, especially when you have cities refusing to abide by those laws. When you can show me that all those things put together cost more than $35 billion, I might consider it. How about all of the people who support the wall pay for it themselves? How much assistance could be given to needy families with that $35 billion? You know, things like health care, food, housing etc. For our citizens. Your friends & neighbors. Regular folks (like me) who work hard, live well frugally, but have to give up the medical care they need so they can pay the mortgage. Finally, where in the **** are we gonna get the $35 billion? It's not like it's laying around on the streets.
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Post by crazy4scraps on Jan 26, 2017 5:56:56 GMT
O M G I just read that whole thing and it's tarrying. He's terrifying as a leader of any country, never mind one as powerful as the USA. He's condoning torture, his critics are all fools, he's still butt hurt over the popular vote thing, if the USA has taken all the oil out of Iraq there'd be no ISIS, the CIA all love him...on and on. Most of it makes little sense, lots of promises about things being better and great, but not one single concrete plan. Every time he opens his mouth it gets worse and worse. I read that thing, and seriously just . What the heck WAS that? Lots and lots of word salad right there.
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PLurker
Prolific Pea
Posts: 9,745
Location: Behind the Cheddar Curtain
Jun 28, 2014 3:48:49 GMT
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Post by PLurker on Jan 26, 2017 6:04:01 GMT
O M G I just read that whole thing and it's tarrying. He's terrifying as a leader of any country, never mind one as powerful as the USA. He's condoning torture, his critics are all fools, he's still butt hurt over the popular vote thing, if the USA has taken all the oil out of Iraq there'd be no ISIS, the CIA all love him...on and on. Most of it makes little sense, lots of promises about things being better and great, but not one single concrete plan. Every time he opens his mouth it gets worse and worse. I read that thing, and seriously just . What the heck WAS that? Lots and lots of word salad right there. I saw it and if he had anything to say that I agreed with I would be hard pressed to notice because I have such a hard time getting by the me, me, me, best, best, best, blah, blah, blah. And just when you think there will be no more talk of his obviously vastest bestest biggest inauguration crowd ever, what does he end with? Showing David a pretty picture on the wall... ...of his obviously vastest bestest biggest inauguration crowd ever. "Look the crowd goes all the way to here and here and...." omg stfu
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 20, 2024 19:41:37 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2017 6:50:15 GMT
So, can someone answer a serious question I have? You're against the wall; you're against deporting people who are here illegally. How do you propose to deal with the never ending influx of people here illegally? How do you propose to deal with the financial drain on border states? How do you propose to deal with the crimes, the death, the injury and the losses caused by people who are here illegally (some of them whom have entered the country illegally several times?) I think people are turning to a wall because no solutions to these issues are proposed or enacted. Merely saying "enforce the laws better" means nothing, especially when you have cities refusing to abide by those laws. Finally, where in the **** are we gonna get the $35 billion? It's not like it's laying around on the streets. Start taxing churches. Mega churches should be able to fund that thing before he gets impeached.
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Post by roberta on Jan 26, 2017 7:14:57 GMT
Have any supporters of the wall considered what will happen to our next door neighbor if we suddenly cut off that aid???
Drug lords and our enemies getting a stronger hold so close to us. Doesn't that bother you at all? Think about the ripple effect to us if you don't care about those families. Think of all the good people effected there.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 20, 2024 19:41:37 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2017 7:25:27 GMT
The wall will not work and is the biggest waste of taxpayer money.
For 10 years, DH and I dealt with the immigration system....for 10 years!!!!!! I am actually FOR immigration reform BECAUSE of what we went through. It would cost WAY less to overhaul the system to make it more efficient. Currently, when you start the process, goes through at least three different departments (Department of State, Homeland Security, FBI). Files get misplaced or lost and not only that, the fees are astronomical! Correct me if I am wrong, but the terror attacks have all been committed by people that came here legally. Many of the illegals are visa overstays. Fix the freaking system to make it WORK! I mean jeez, FED EX and UPS can track packages but the government can't keep up with visas or these files?!?!?!?!
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used2scrap
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,036
Jan 29, 2016 3:02:55 GMT
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Post by used2scrap on Jan 26, 2017 9:41:00 GMT
So, can someone answer a serious question I have? You're against the wall; you're against deporting people who are here illegally. How do you propose to deal with the never ending influx of people here illegally? How do you propose to deal with the financial drain on border states? How do you propose to deal with the crimes, the death, the injury and the losses caused by people who are here illegally (some of them whom have entered the country illegally several times?) I think people are turning to a wall because no solutions to these issues are proposed or enacted. Merely saying "enforce the laws better" means nothing, especially when you have cities refusing to abide by those laws. When you can show me that all those things put together cost more than $35 billion, I might consider it. How about all of the people who support the wall pay for it themselves? How much assistance could be given to needy families with that $35 billion? You know, things like health care, food, housing etc. For our citizens. Your friends & neighbors. Regular folks (like me) who work hard, live well frugally, but have to give up the medical care they need so they can pay the mortgage. Finally, where in the **** are we gonna get the $35 billion? It's not like it's laying around on the streets. Didn't you listen when he spoke to the CIA? We're going back to Iraq and this time we are going to take the oil!
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Post by Merge on Jan 26, 2017 11:37:06 GMT
To the question of what are we going to do about all the "illegals" coming in - make work visas easier to get, and there won't be a need to come illegally. People come here to work and they're coming to do jobs no one here wants to do, so I say let them.
I agree that we need to be deporting criminals. Obama deported thousands of them. But Texas, which shares the longest border with Mexico and is home to millions of undocumented immigrants and their children, is not in favor of Trump building a wall along our southern border (why should northern elites get to make that decision for Texas?). They contribute billions more to our economy than they cost - though that will quickly change if you factor in the cost of a wall that was supposed to keep them out.
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pyccku
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,817
Jun 27, 2014 23:12:07 GMT
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Post by pyccku on Jan 26, 2017 11:54:56 GMT
One thing Mexicans seem to know how to do is work, and work hard. Their tunnels are amazing. They will have no tunnel finding a way under or over a wall.
There are many property owners (including Native American tribes) who do not want the wall built on their land. While the government may claim eminent domain, actual conservatives are likely to have an issue with landowners being forced at gunpoint (yes, it could come to that - these ranchers are almost always armed and take their rights seriously) to allow the Feds to start building. While they could force the issue, the optics would be very bad and make the DAPL protests look like child's play.
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TheOtherMeg
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,541
Jun 25, 2014 20:58:14 GMT
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Post by TheOtherMeg on Jan 26, 2017 12:12:05 GMT
One thing Mexicans seem to know how to do is work, and work hard. Their tunnels are amazing. They will have no tunnel finding a way under or over a wall. There are many property owners (including Native American tribes) who do not want the wall built on their land. While the government may claim eminent domain, actual conservatives are likely to have an issue with landowners being forced at gunpoint (yes, it could come to that - these ranchers are almost always armed and take their rights seriously) to allow the Feds to start building. While they could force the issue, the optics would be very bad and make the DAPL protests look like child's play. Fighting lawsuits and/or (en)forcing eminent domain will also add to the cost of the wall and the time it takes to build it.
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pyccku
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,817
Jun 27, 2014 23:12:07 GMT
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Post by pyccku on Jan 26, 2017 12:18:55 GMT
You are assuming that there will still be lawsuits that can be filed. Congress could so easily pass a law that saws border lands can be claimed for the purpose of national security, if they wanted to. We're building a wall on your land AND we aren't going to bother reimbursing you for it.
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Post by *KAS* on Jan 26, 2017 12:42:15 GMT
I am for deporting illegals who commit crimes. I am for allowing immigrants who wish to work here, easy access to work visas. I support allowing a pathway to citizenship for those who came here illegally and are contributing members of our society. I would rather see more time and effort spent on finding those who participate in criminal activity and trying to stem the flow of drugs into the country. But supposing we do these things. How do we prevent even more illegals from just slipping into our country? The same way we could do it without a bajillion dollar wall, which will be symbolic more than anything. Criminals will find a way here. Tunnels, boat, overstay visa, etc. You deport criminals. Increase border security and processing agents and the like so that you have the ability to enforce laws. Help people that want to come here legally (or who have been here for years) - let them contribute and pay taxes and buy health insurance. As long as they aren't here committing crimes, and are contributing to society, they can stay. Anybody who commits a violent crime / drug related crime (I don't know where you draw the line - but I mean a serious crime like selling drugs, sex crimes, crimes with weapons - Not a traffic ticket), you go home. It seems like a fair compromise that both sides could meet in the middle and agree to.
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tduby1
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,979
Jun 27, 2014 18:32:45 GMT
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Post by tduby1 on Jan 26, 2017 12:58:29 GMT
I understand that some of the border land belongs to one of the Native American tribes, and they are considered a sovereign nation. How is Trump going to build a wall in that area?? Pipeline?
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twinsmomfla99
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,987
Jun 26, 2014 13:42:47 GMT
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Post by twinsmomfla99 on Jan 26, 2017 13:04:51 GMT
So, can someone answer a serious question I have? You're against the wall; you're against deporting people who are here illegally. How do you propose to deal with the never ending influx of people here illegally? How do you propose to deal with the financial drain on border states? How do you propose to deal with the crimes, the death, the injury and the losses caused by people who are here illegally (some of them whom have entered the country illegally several times?) I think people are turning to a wall because no solutions to these issues are proposed or enacted. Merely saying "enforce the laws better" means nothing, especially when you have cities refusing to abide by those laws. Address the root cause: why are they coming? Because we have employers who are willing to pay them under the table or accept false docjmentation with a wink and a nod. There may be a few who are trying to have "anchor babies," but even that motivation is related to the opportunity to work here and not be deported. So take away the incentive to cross the border for a job. 1. Set up a system to verify documentation in a more timely fashion, and follow up on the hits you get for invalid documentation. 2. Bring the hammer down on employers who hire under the table. Spend the money for forensic audits of companies whose official payroll doesn't quite add up. Adopt a no tolerance policy holding employers accountable for knowingly hiring workers without acceptable documents. ETA: Right now the risk of getting caught and having to pay a fine is outweighed by the financial benefits of hiring undocumented workers. 3. Create a sort of "clearinghouse" system for verifying worker status. Small employers who don't want to risk the liability for mistakes in verifying documents could send applicants to the clearinghouse for verification. Heck, you could have applicants be "pre-approved" before the interview, like being pre-approved for a mortgage before the realtor wastes time showing you a bunch of homes. ETA: I forgot to address the last part of the post. "Sanctuary cities" are NOT refusing to obey the law. They are refusing to commit local resources to do the Federal goverent's job of enforcing immigration policies. All sanctuary cities (to the best of my knowledge because I have yet to find an example to the contrary) are complying with federal laws that apply to them, i. e. confirming employee documentation, reporting when undocumented immigrants are arrested, turning over detainees when requested, etc.. What they are not doing is conducting investigations to find anyone who is here illegally or keeping someone in jail longer than allowed for a local violation just so the federal government can have more time to pick them up. It is a very basic constitutional concept that the states are not merely an extension of the federal government's authority and cannot be required to enforce feferal laws. One fairly recent landmark case on the issue involved a local government that did not want to comply with a federal mandate regarding background checks for gun purchases (I think, but I'm on my phone and can't search right now). Localities won another important case concerned withholding highway funds for failing to enforce a speed limit. The court ruled that money can be withheld, but placed serious limits on it because it could not be so disproportionately burdensome that it would have the effect of forcing the state to act on behalf of the federal government. Again I'm basing this on memory and the details could vary. ETA: The highway case may have bee about drinking age instead of speed limits--thought I should clarify in case anyone is trying to search for the case.
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blue tulip
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,986
Jun 25, 2014 20:53:57 GMT
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Post by blue tulip on Jan 26, 2017 13:26:41 GMT
OMFG. I couldn't even finish it my blood pressure was rising. he never answers anything! just turns it into a "how great am I, people love me" story, literally! take this example:
"DAVID MUIR: Mr. President, I just have one more question on this. And it's -- it's bigger picture. You took some heat after your visit to the CIA in front of that hallowed wall, 117 stars -- of those lost at the CIA. You talked about other things. But you also talked about crowd size at the inauguration, about the size of your rallies, about covers on Time magazine. And I just wanna ask you when does all of that matter just a little less? When do you let it roll off your back now that you're the president? ((bolding mine))
(OVERTALK)
PRESIDENT TRUMP: OK, so I'm glad you asked. So, I went to the CIA, my first step. I have great respect for the people in intelligence and CIA. I'm -- I don't have a lot of respect for, in particular one of the leaders. But that's okay. But I have a lot of respect for the people in the CIA.
That speech was a home run. That speech, if you look at Fox, OK, I'll mention you -- we see what Fox said. They said it was one of the great speeches. They showed the people applauding and screaming and -- and they were all CIA. There was -- somebody was asking Sean -- "Well, were they Trump people that were put--" we don't have Trump people. They were CIA people.
That location was given to me. Mike Pence went up before me, paid great homage to the wall. I then went up, paid great homage to the wall. I then spoke to the crowd. I got a standing ovation. In fact, they said it was the biggest standing ovation since Peyton Manning had won the Super Bowl and they said it was equal. I got a standing ovation. It lasted for a long period of time. What you do is take -- take out your tape -- you probably ran it live. I know when I do good speeches. I know when I do bad speeches. That speech was a total home run. They loved it. I could've ...
(OVERTALK) "
and then he KEEPS going on about much people loved the speech, before turning it into a "you and your network were demeaning and media blah blah blah.. never addresses the question.
"PRESIDENT TRUMP: People loved it. They loved it. They gave me a standing ovation for a long period of time. They never even sat down, most of them, during the speech. There was love in the room. You and other networks covered it very inaccurately. I hate to say this to you and you probably won't put it on but turn on Fox and see how it was covered. And see how people respond to that speech.
That speech was a good speech. And you and a couple of other networks tried to downplay that speech. And it was very, very unfortunate that you did. The people of the CIA loved the speech. If I was going to take a vote in that room, there were, like, 300, 350 people, over 1,000 wanted to be there but they couldn't. They were all CIA people. I would say I would've gotten 350 to nothing in that room. That's what the vote would've been. That speech was a big hit, a big success -- success. And then I came back and I watched you on television and a couple of others. "
I just can't.
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flute4peace
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,757
Jul 3, 2014 14:38:35 GMT
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Post by flute4peace on Jan 26, 2017 13:33:40 GMT
OMFG. I couldn't even finish it my blood pressure was rising. he never answers anything! just turns it into a "how great am I, people love me" story, literally! take this example:
"DAVID MUIR: Mr. President, I just have one more question on this. And it's -- it's bigger picture. You took some heat after your visit to the CIA in front of that hallowed wall, 117 stars -- of those lost at the CIA. You talked about other things. But you also talked about crowd size at the inauguration, about the size of your rallies, about covers on Time magazine. And I just wanna ask you when does all of that matter just a little less? When do you let it roll off your back now that you're the president? ((bolding mine))
(OVERTALK)
PRESIDENT TRUMP: OK, so I'm glad you asked. So, I went to the CIA, my first step. I have great respect for the people in intelligence and CIA. I'm -- I don't have a lot of respect for, in particular one of the leaders. But that's okay. But I have a lot of respect for the people in the CIA.
That speech was a home run. That speech, if you look at Fox, OK, I'll mention you -- we see what Fox said. They said it was one of the great speeches. They showed the people applauding and screaming and -- and they were all CIA. There was -- somebody was asking Sean -- "Well, were they Trump people that were put--" we don't have Trump people. They were CIA people.
That location was given to me. Mike Pence went up before me, paid great homage to the wall. I then went up, paid great homage to the wall. I then spoke to the crowd. I got a standing ovation. In fact, they said it was the biggest standing ovation since Peyton Manning had won the Super Bowl and they said it was equal. I got a standing ovation. It lasted for a long period of time. What you do is take -- take out your tape -- you probably ran it live. I know when I do good speeches. I know when I do bad speeches. That speech was a total home run. They loved it. I could've ...
(OVERTALK) "
and then he KEEPS going on about much people loved the speech, before turning it into a "you and your network were demeaning and media blah blah blah.. never addresses the question.
"PRESIDENT TRUMP: People loved it. They loved it. They gave me a standing ovation for a long period of time. They never even sat down, most of them, during the speech. There was love in the room. You and other networks covered it very inaccurately. I hate to say this to you and you probably won't put it on but turn on Fox and see how it was covered. And see how people respond to that speech.
That speech was a good speech. And you and a couple of other networks tried to downplay that speech. And it was very, very unfortunate that you did. The people of the CIA loved the speech. If I was going to take a vote in that room, there were, like, 300, 350 people, over 1,000 wanted to be there but they couldn't. They were all CIA people. I would say I would've gotten 350 to nothing in that room. That's what the vote would've been. That speech was a big hit, a big success -- success. And then I came back and I watched you on television and a couple of others. "
I just can't.
Wooly crap that's the craziest one yet.
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flute4peace
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,757
Jul 3, 2014 14:38:35 GMT
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Post by flute4peace on Jan 26, 2017 13:41:03 GMT
Have any supporters of the wall considered what will happen to our next door neighbor if we suddenly cut off that aid??? Drug lords and our enemies getting a stronger hold so close to us. Doesn't that bother you at all? Think about the ripple effect to us if you don't care about those families. Think of all the good people effected there. Not to mention the influx of people, no doubt including some of those drug lords, who scramble to get across before the wall is finished. Kinda like the runs on milk & TP before a big storm. It's not like the thing will pop up overnight. I wouldn't be surprised if it's already happening.
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flute4peace
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,757
Jul 3, 2014 14:38:35 GMT
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Post by flute4peace on Jan 26, 2017 13:42:47 GMT
The wall will not work and is the biggest waste of taxpayer money. For 10 years, DH and I dealt with the immigration system....for 10 years!!!!!! I am actually FOR immigration reform BECAUSE of what we went through. It would cost WAY less to overhaul the system to make it more efficient. Currently, when you start the process, goes through at least three different departments (Department of State, Homeland Security, FBI). Files get misplaced or lost and not only that, the fees are astronomical! Correct me if I am wrong, but the terror attacks have all been committed by people that came here legally. Many of the illegals are visa overstays. Fix the freaking system to make it WORK! I mean jeez, FED EX and UPS can track packages but the government can't keep up with visas or these files?!?!?!?! YES!! I have relatives who have been through the citizenship process. Took years.
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imsirius
Prolific Pea
Call it as I see it.
Posts: 7,661
Location: Floating in the black veil.
Jul 12, 2014 19:59:28 GMT
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Post by imsirius on Jan 26, 2017 13:46:47 GMT
Instead of building a wall, why not take that money and train new border patrol guards? He talks a big talk about hiring only Americans and creating more jobs than anyone else who ever lived...blah blah..
Put the money into better vetting, more border guards and stations, and concentrating on getting rid of the criminals and people who are there on illegal visas?
Oh right....the wall looks better and sounds better in the long run for his adoring fans.
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