MsKnit
Pearl Clutcher
RefuPea #1406
Posts: 2,648
Jun 26, 2014 19:06:42 GMT
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Post by MsKnit on Jan 26, 2017 17:09:38 GMT
I understand that some of the border land belongs to one of the Native American tribes, and they are considered a sovereign nation. How is Trump going to build a wall in that area?? Same way he is going to force that damn Dakota pipeline through. He does not give a shit about any thing but $$. Build the pipeline make $$ Nix the ACA saves $$ Education, who needs it saves $$ Women's health issues. Screw 'em. There are plenty more if a few die. saves $$ The elderly...they don't need SS or medicare. Let 'em die. They are a drain on society anyway. saves $$
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 20, 2024 20:12:43 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2017 17:13:27 GMT
I am against the wall because I think it is too expensive, I don't for a minute think that Mexico will pay for it, there are other ways that people can come in. My understanding is that there have been more deportations and fewer people coming in in recent years. I would build on what is working to make that happen. I do not want to see "dreamers" deported. Criminals? Yes. People who have been here for years and are productive members of society? No. I am mostly in the same opinion as you are on this. There are ways to make them pay, yes, it may take time yes. Do I think it is the best use of resources? No. I do think that we should send President Nieto a bill for every penny spent on deportation and detainment of any Mexican illegal immigrant. The same goes for every country for which we deport someone back to. Be it the Phillipines, Central America, or any other country. If we pick up an illegal alien from their country, they should foot the bill for sending them back. I do think we start with every single person every found of breaking a law, and sending them home. I do feel we should make legal immigration much easier. Much less expensive, but there must be punishment for breaking the law. Personally I think that a permanent ban on citizenship is one way to accomplish this. Along with that, a permanent ban on government assistance of any kind. Come here the right way, you get all the benefits. Come here the wrong way, you will never get any of them. I don't know where to start with all this. I think perhaps living in the States with only two borders to be concerned about you don't realize how virtually impossible it is for countries like Africa and Central America that have so many countries with porous borders to patrol. Not only that, virtually all these countries are so socially and economically disadvantaged already that they most likely cannot pay a "return to sender" bill. I do agree that the immigration process should be made more affordable. I actually had to sell my house and DH and I had to move in with relatives so we could pay the attorney's fees and all the fees that each application cost. We spent easy 5-6k to go through the system. I highly doubt most immigrants can afford that. As I said earlier, spend the money on overhauling the system than building an ineffective wall! And if assistance is to be terminated, I am cool with that. Just make sure you do it for ALL countries across the board. Including the billions we send to Israel!
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Post by jonda1974 on Jan 26, 2017 17:36:40 GMT
I am mostly in the same opinion as you are on this. There are ways to make them pay, yes, it may take time yes. Do I think it is the best use of resources? No. I do think that we should send President Nieto a bill for every penny spent on deportation and detainment of any Mexican illegal immigrant. The same goes for every country for which we deport someone back to. Be it the Phillipines, Central America, or any other country. If we pick up an illegal alien from their country, they should foot the bill for sending them back. I do think we start with every single person every found of breaking a law, and sending them home. I do feel we should make legal immigration much easier. Much less expensive, but there must be punishment for breaking the law. Personally I think that a permanent ban on citizenship is one way to accomplish this. Along with that, a permanent ban on government assistance of any kind. Come here the right way, you get all the benefits. Come here the wrong way, you will never get any of them. I don't know where to start with all this. I think perhaps living in the States with only two borders to be concerned about you don't realize how virtually impossible it is for countries like Africa and Central America that have so many countries with porous borders to patrol. Not only that, virtually all these countries are so socially and economically disadvantaged already that they most likely cannot pay a "return to sender" bill. I do agree that the immigration process should be made more affordable. I actually had to sell my house and DH and I had to move in with relatives so we could pay the attorney's fees and all the fees that each application cost. We spent easy 5-6k to go through the system. I highly doubt most immigrants can afford that. As I said earlier, spend the money on overhauling the system than building an ineffective wall! And if assistance is to be terminated, I am cool with that. Just make sure you do it for ALL countries across the board. Including the billions we send to Israel! Maybe Mexico should look at a barrier on it's southern border . Said in jest, but I do agree it is impossible to completely stem the tide of illegal immigration. That's why I would support making legal immigration easier for non-skilled labor, as well as people who currently cannot afford the application fees. I completely understand and think it's wrong how expensive the process is, and how convoluted it is. One shouldn't have to hire an attorney to immigrate. In terms of the "return to sender" bills...we just giving them foreign aid. Or reduce their foreign aid by the amount it costs us to capture, deport, and for those who have been here for a while, the cost of their care as well. In addition to that, you make illegal immigration undesirable. Make them not want to be here. While at the same time making legal immigration as desirable as possible. In terms of foreign assistance, definitely across the board, but I'm also talking a permanent ban on any form of personal assistance for anyone found here illegally. They can stay, but they will never be citizens and will never receive help. If they decide to go back home, then they can be put back in the queue for legal immigration.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 20, 2024 20:12:43 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2017 20:44:37 GMT
Jonda, for a lot of these people, especially those in high conflict regions, jail would be welcome respite from what their country is like. While there is poverty in the States, it just does not compare to poverty in Third World countries. I don't think it is possible to make it "bad enough" to be a deterrent.
I 100% support putting a large chunk of money to reforming the system. Cut waste, make it more efficient and better track issued visas.
The wall is not going to do a damn thing but bankrupt the middle class.
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Post by micheley on Jan 26, 2017 20:53:46 GMT
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 20, 2024 20:12:43 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2017 2:06:28 GMT
To the question of what are we going to do about all the "illegals" coming in - make work visas easier to get, and there won't be a need to come illegally. People come here to work and they're coming to do jobs no one here wants to do, so I say let them. I agree that we need to be deporting criminals. Obama deported thousands of them. But Texas, which shares the longest border with Mexico and is home to millions of undocumented immigrants and their children, is not in favor of Trump building a wall along our southern border (why should northern elites get to make that decision for Texas?). They contribute billions more to our economy than they cost - though that will quickly change if you factor in the cost of a wall that was supposed to keep them out. Mexico is the top export destination for three U.S. States (Texas, 35.7% of total exports went to Mexico in 2012; Arizona, 34.1%; and California, 16.3%)
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Post by Merge on Jan 27, 2017 2:09:37 GMT
To the question of what are we going to do about all the "illegals" coming in - make work visas easier to get, and there won't be a need to come illegally. People come here to work and they're coming to do jobs no one here wants to do, so I say let them. I agree that we need to be deporting criminals. Obama deported thousands of them. But Texas, which shares the longest border with Mexico and is home to millions of undocumented immigrants and their children, is not in favor of Trump building a wall along our southern border (why should northern elites get to make that decision for Texas?). They contribute billions more to our economy than they cost - though that will quickly change if you factor in the cost of a wall that was supposed to keep them out. Mexico is the top export destination for three U.S. States (Texas, 35.7% of total exports went to Mexico in 2012; Arizona, 34.1%; and California, 16.3%) I'm only half joking when I say we should be building the wall along the Red River, not the Rio Grande.
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huskergal
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,002
Jun 25, 2014 20:22:13 GMT
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Post by huskergal on Jan 27, 2017 2:41:55 GMT
I'm gonna be real mad when the cost of avocados goes through the roof!
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Post by txdancermom on Jan 27, 2017 2:43:41 GMT
The American people will pay for it - in the form of higher prices on anything that comes across the border from Mexico. And we will realize the full extent of what actually comes from Mexico and our costs for groceries, etc all go up.
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Post by Merge on Jan 27, 2017 2:55:42 GMT
The American people will pay for it - in the form of higher prices on anything that comes across the border from Mexico. And we will realize the full extent of what actually comes from Mexico and our costs for groceries, etc all go up. And it won't be the rich who bear the brunt of those costs - it will be the middle class and poor. As usual.
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katybee
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,378
Jun 25, 2014 23:25:39 GMT
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Post by katybee on Jan 27, 2017 3:02:47 GMT
Donald Trump and all of his minions know that the wall will never work. They know it!!! But consider this – someone is going to make a SHIT TON of money building it. BILLIONS of dollars! And the American taxpayers are going to fund it. So once again, Donald Trump is screwing over average Americans so he and his buddies can become even richer. And he's got the support of millions of us. I call him stupid all the time--but he actually is brilliant!
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Jan 27, 2017 3:18:22 GMT
The American people will pay for it - in the form of higher prices on anything that comes across the border from Mexico. And we will realize the full extent of what actually comes from Mexico and our costs for groceries, etc all go up. And it won't be the rich who bear the brunt of those costs - it will be the middle class and poor. As usual. Too bad that Trump supporters only cannot just pay for it.
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pudgygroundhog
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,643
Location: The Grand Canyon
Jun 25, 2014 20:18:39 GMT
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Post by pudgygroundhog on Jan 27, 2017 14:34:27 GMT
And it won't be the rich who bear the brunt of those costs - it will be the middle class and poor. As usual. Too bad that Trump supporters only cannot just pay for it. Maybe they can fund it with private donations, just like they've said about Planned Parenthood.
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Post by crazy4scraps on Jan 27, 2017 14:50:55 GMT
Too bad that Trump supporters only cannot just pay for it. Maybe they can fund it with private donations, just like they've said about Planned Parenthood. Maybe there should be a checkbox on our tax forms for where we would prefer our tax dollars to go! It would make everybody happy!
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Post by jonda1974 on Jan 27, 2017 14:54:40 GMT
Jonda, for a lot of these people, especially those in high conflict regions, jail would be welcome respite from what their country is like. While there is poverty in the States, it just does not compare to poverty in Third World countries. I don't think it is possible to make it "bad enough" to be a deterrent. I 100% support putting a large chunk of money to reforming the system. Cut waste, make it more efficient and better track issued visas. The wall is not going to do a damn thing but bankrupt the middle class. I understand that, and agree that to many jail would be a welcome respite, but I'm not talking about our jails. I'm talking about sending them back to their jails, but I cannot and will never support open borders. I feel bad for them, but our own people are the priority for our dollars and our energies.
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Post by sabrinae on Jan 27, 2017 14:59:16 GMT
Jonda, for a lot of these people, especially those in high conflict regions, jail would be welcome respite from what their country is like. While there is poverty in the States, it just does not compare to poverty in Third World countries. I don't think it is possible to make it "bad enough" to be a deterrent. I 100% support putting a large chunk of money to reforming the system. Cut waste, make it more efficient and better track issued visas. The wall is not going to do a damn thing but bankrupt the middle class. I understand that, and agree that to many jail would be a welcome respite, but I'm not talking about our jails. I'm talking about sending them back to their jails, but I cannot and will never support open borders. I feel bad for them, but our own people are the priority for our dollars and our energies. How are you going to make other countries put them in jail. How are you going to make other countries pay any bills sent for the costs of deportation? Sure you can take it out of aid money, but you've already said that should be cut off. That money isn't going to go very far. Mexico could also make it much more difficult for the US to enforce borders. They could easily pass immigrant through to our border and not attempt to stop them at their own borders.
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Post by jonda1974 on Jan 27, 2017 16:28:23 GMT
I understand that, and agree that to many jail would be a welcome respite, but I'm not talking about our jails. I'm talking about sending them back to their jails, but I cannot and will never support open borders. I feel bad for them, but our own people are the priority for our dollars and our energies. How are you going to make other countries put them in jail. How are you going to make other countries pay any bills sent for the costs of deportation? Sure you can take it out of aid money, but you've already said that should be cut off. That money isn't going to go very far. Mexico could also make it much more difficult for the US to enforce borders. They could easily pass immigrant through to our border and not attempt to stop them at their own borders. Well the ideal would be to make the option of coming here illegally so horrible, and the idea of coming here legally so great, that people only come here legally. I think you make it 100% impossible for them to obtain work, housing, government benefits of any kind, and basically when caught they are put on the roster to never be able to apply for citizenship ever. In terms of making countries pay, and put the people in jail. You are right, we can't force it. But we can just drop these criminals off, and let them deal with them.
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Post by debmast on Jan 27, 2017 16:35:00 GMT
The American people will pay for it - in the form of higher prices on anything that comes across the border from Mexico. And we will realize the full extent of what actually comes from Mexico and our costs for groceries, etc all go up. And it won't be the rich who bear the brunt of those costs - it will be the middle class and poor. As usual. And he will still claim Mexico paid for it, and his minions will believe it.
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Post by micheley on Jan 27, 2017 16:39:07 GMT
Tweet I just saw:
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 20, 2024 20:12:43 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2017 16:44:27 GMT
I don't know if I've read this anywhere, but is Mexico against the U.S. protecting it's borders in general, or is the big issue Trump saying Mexico will pay for it?
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Post by crimsoncat05 on Jan 27, 2017 16:45:07 GMT
^^^ re: just saying he built it, and not following through... it's kinda like his voters believe he's a fabulously successful businessman despite all the bankruptcies, no tax returns, his quotes that it's his preferred method to borrow as much $$ as possible and not pay it back, etc. etc.
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Post by pierkiss on Jan 27, 2017 18:12:42 GMT
Maybe they can fund it with private donations, just like they've said about Planned Parenthood. Maybe there should be a checkbox on our tax forms for where we would prefer our tax dollars to go! It would make everybody happy! I think that would be a great idea. Everyone fills out a form on their tax return. Check all the boxes for all the programs you wish your tax dollars would fund. I'd love to see how the people of this country would choose to spend their collective money. See exactly which programs and entitlements come out on top (education, military, immigration, etc). I think it would be eye-opening.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 20, 2024 20:12:43 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2017 18:37:53 GMT
Tweet I just saw: Stealing this! LOL!
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Post by sabrinae on Jan 27, 2017 18:57:41 GMT
How are you going to make other countries put them in jail. How are you going to make other countries pay any bills sent for the costs of deportation? Sure you can take it out of aid money, but you've already said that should be cut off. That money isn't going to go very far. Mexico could also make it much more difficult for the US to enforce borders. They could easily pass immigrant through to our border and not attempt to stop them at their own borders. Well the ideal would be to make the option of coming here illegally so horrible, and the idea of coming here legally so great, that people only come here legally. I think you make it 100% impossible for them to obtain work, housing, government benefits of any kind, and basically when caught they are put on the roster to never be able to apply for citizenship ever. In terms of making countries pay, and put the people in jail. You are right, we can't force it. But we can just drop these criminals off, and let them deal with them. If they make it into the US, the country of origin doesn't have to accept them back. They could simply say nope, not ours, we're not taking them back. What then? Leave them sitting on detention here? I don't disagree with some of your ideas, but I think your greatly simplifying the ability to send them back, especially, if other countries don't want to cooperate and the expense of doing so. I would much rather continue with O'bamas policy of deporting those who are committing crimes here (other than being here illegally) and then focus on immigration reform to allow for easier immigration especially for those who are crossing the border to work on a agriculture and other related fields. I would also like to see some sort of solution for the Dreamers who didn't choose to come here but we're brought here as children. Given the conditions in many of the countries that these people are fleeing from, you're not going to be able to make the US seem so unwelcoming that it discourages them from coming. The other piece that I think is crucial is a crack down on businesses hiring illegal immigrants. Give them a legal. Way to bring immigrants in if they need them for work and then severely penalize businesses that hire illegal immigrants. Make is so expensive for the business that doing it costs them more than hiring people here legally.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 20, 2024 20:12:43 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2017 19:14:47 GMT
If they make it into the US, the country of origin doesn't have to accept them back. They could simply say nope, not ours, we're not taking them back. What then? Leave them sitting on detention here? I don't disagree with some of your ideas, but I think your greatly simplifying the ability to send them back, especially, if other countries don't want to cooperate and the expense of doing so. I would much rather continue with O'bamas policy of deporting those who are committing crimes here (other than being here illegally) and then focus on immigration reform to allow for easier immigration especially for those who are crossing the border to work on a agriculture and other related fields. I would also like to see some sort of solution for the Dreamers who didn't choose to come here but we're brought here as children. Given the conditions in many of the countries that these people are fleeing from, you're not going to be able to make the US seem so unwelcoming that it discourages them from coming. The other piece that I think is crucial is a crack down on businesses hiring illegal immigrants. Give them a legal. Way to bring immigrants in if they need them for work and then severely penalize businesses that hire illegal immigrants. Make is so expensive for the business that doing it costs them more than hiring people here legally. The last part...penalizing businesses will NEVER happen! These companies are making entirely too much money to give that up. They will fight Trump on this.
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Post by sabrinae on Jan 27, 2017 19:36:31 GMT
If they make it into the US, the country of origin doesn't have to accept them back. They could simply say nope, not ours, we're not taking them back. What then? Leave them sitting on detention here? I don't disagree with some of your ideas, but I think your greatly simplifying the ability to send them back, especially, if other countries don't want to cooperate and the expense of doing so. I would much rather continue with O'bamas policy of deporting those who are committing crimes here (other than being here illegally) and then focus on immigration reform to allow for easier immigration especially for those who are crossing the border to work on a agriculture and other related fields. I would also like to see some sort of solution for the Dreamers who didn't choose to come here but we're brought here as children. Given the conditions in many of the countries that these people are fleeing from, you're not going to be able to make the US seem so unwelcoming that it discourages them from coming. The other piece that I think is crucial is a crack down on businesses hiring illegal immigrants. Give them a legal. Way to bring immigrants in if they need them for work and then severely penalize businesses that hire illegal immigrants. Make is so expensive for the business that doing it costs them more than hiring people here legally. The last part...penalizing businesses will NEVER happen! These companies are making entirely too much money to give that up. They will fight Trump on this. I don't think it will happen either for those same reasons, but I think if the immigration issues are going to be addressed both sides of the issue have to be addressed.
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pudgygroundhog
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,643
Location: The Grand Canyon
Jun 25, 2014 20:18:39 GMT
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Post by pudgygroundhog on Jan 27, 2017 20:11:56 GMT
It goes deeper than employers hiring illegal immigrants. Americans want their goods, services, and food cheap. I think a lot of people say they want to stop illegal immigration, but there isn't necessarily a lot of incentive for certain industries/businesses to do so. And states benefit as well too - illegal immigrants pay a lot of money in taxes.
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suzastampin
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,587
Jun 28, 2014 14:32:59 GMT
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Post by suzastampin on Jan 27, 2017 21:41:14 GMT
Well the ideal would be to make the option of coming here illegally so horrible, and the idea of coming here legally so great, that people only come here legally. I think you make it 100% impossible for them to obtain work, housing, government benefits of any kind, and basically when caught they are put on the roster to never be able to apply for citizenship ever. In terms of making countries pay, and put the people in jail. You are right, we can't force it. But we can just drop these criminals off, and let them deal with them. If they make it into the US, the country of origin doesn't have to accept them back. They could simply say nope, not ours, we're not taking them back. What then? Leave them sitting on detention here? I don't disagree with some of your ideas, but I think your greatly simplifying the ability to send them back, especially, if other countries don't want to cooperate and the expense of doing so. I would much rather continue with O'bamas policy of deporting those who are committing crimes here (other than being here illegally) and then focus on immigration reform to allow for easier immigration especially for those who are crossing the border to work on a agriculture and other related fields. I would also like to see some sort of solution for the Dreamers who didn't choose to come here but we're brought here as children. Given the conditions in many of the countries that these people are fleeing from, you're not going to be able to make the US seem so unwelcoming that it discourages them from coming. The other piece that I think is crucial is a crack down on businesses hiring illegal immigrants. Give them a legal. Way to bring immigrants in if they need them for work and then severely penalize businesses that hire illegal immigrants. Make is so expensive for the business that doing it costs them more than hiring people here legally. I live in an area where there is horse racing in the summer. ICE makes a couple of visits each season to round up illegals working as grooms or hot walkers. Many of the trainers now require documentation before they will hire anybody to cover their butts. But, for only $1500 the illegals can get all the legitimate documentation they need to be here. Social security numbers so they pay taxes, etc., and they are able to get their NYS racing license, drivers license, etc.
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jayfab
Drama Llama
procastinating
Posts: 5,521
Jun 26, 2014 21:55:15 GMT
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Post by jayfab on Jan 28, 2017 0:31:23 GMT
How about a little funny. The gov of Washington comment about the wall video of the comment KING 5 News ✔@king5seattle WATCH >> WA @govinslee says if President Trump's border wall is anything like his inauguration crowd assessment... it'll be 8 inches high: 6:25 PM - 25 Jan 2017
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Post by anxiousmom on Jan 28, 2017 1:05:18 GMT
Interesting fact: Florida tends to have a pretty high number of undocumented workers.
Query: Are they going to build a wall around my state?
That wall, no matter how high, isn't going to stop anything around here-last I heard, the 'Mexicans' only make up less than 50% of the illegal immigrant population. The rest are comprised of a host of other nationalities (both South and Latin America and increasingly Chinese) and that damn wall would do zippo, zero, nada and nothing but cost ME money. Lord Jesus y'all, this is the most ridiculous non-solution ever dreamed up.
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