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Post by micheley on Jan 28, 2017 1:11:16 GMT
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AmeliaBloomer
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,842
Location: USA
Jun 26, 2014 5:01:45 GMT
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Post by AmeliaBloomer on Jan 28, 2017 1:42:42 GMT
WA @govinslee says if President Trump's border wall is anything like his inauguration crowd assessment... it'll be 8 inches high.I'm all about compromise. These are 14 inches high, which should make the new guy feel as if he's bargained hard. And he'll love the name. Let's just wait for a sale, haul a bunch of these down there, and call it a day. (I remember tripping over fences like this when I was a kid and getting all tangled up. We just need to slow 'em down, right? Or embarrass them into turning tail?)
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katybee
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,378
Jun 25, 2014 23:25:39 GMT
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Post by katybee on Jan 28, 2017 16:40:07 GMT
Interesting fact: Florida tends to have a pretty high number of undocumented workers. Query: Are they going to build a wall around my state? That wall, no matter how high, isn't going to stop anything around here-last I heard, the 'Mexicans' only make up less than 50% of the illegal immigrant population. The rest are comprised of a host of other nationalities (both South and Latin America and increasingly Chinese) and that damn wall would do zippo, zero, nada and nothing but cost ME money. Lord Jesus y'all, this is the most ridiculous non-solution ever dreamed up. It's not actually about stopping illegal immigration--it never was. It's about playing to his base and making his construction cronies BIlLLIONS of dollars.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 20, 2024 19:00:21 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2017 18:03:09 GMT
Interesting fact: Florida tends to have a pretty high number of undocumented workers. Query: Are they going to build a wall around my state? That wall, no matter how high, isn't going to stop anything around here-last I heard, the 'Mexicans' only make up less than 50% of the illegal immigrant population. The rest are comprised of a host of other nationalities (both South and Latin America and increasingly Chinese) and that damn wall would do zippo, zero, nada and nothing but cost ME money. Lord Jesus y'all, this is the most ridiculous non-solution ever dreamed up. It's not actually about stopping illegal immigration--it never was. It's about playing to his base and making his construction cronies BIlLLIONS of dollars. If Trump just wants to make his cronies billions, then why did Former President Obama and HRC vote in favor of H.R. 6061, The Secure Fence Act of 2006? I do know they changed their stance a couple of years later, but the approval was there.
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Post by verdepea on Jan 28, 2017 18:22:19 GMT
DING, DING, DING..... WE HAVE A WINNER KATYBEE... " Its about playing to his base and "making his construction cronies BILLIONS of Dollars"..and in return they make laws on how to avoid paying their fair share of taxes on our tax revenue. How can a man from NEW YORK CITY (thanks PACE PICANTE) understand the complexity of the situation and offer long term effective solutions? From CNN: Building Trump's wall: For Texans, it's complicated (If I cant get my link to work) CNN: Building Trump's wall: For Texans, it's complicated Texas Congressional Members DO NOT support WALLTRUMPLets play a game of true or false. (Hint believe it or not they are all true statements about the pathological liar Trump) Who has experience with developing projects? Who refuses to release his tax returns or divest from his numerous businesses? Who has not paid federal taxes on the millions of dollars he has earned over the last 10 years? It leads us back to the question who benefits most financially from WALLTRUMP? Very plausible answer: TRUMP and CRONIES SHELL CORPORATIONS, Llc. WALLTRUMP IS NOT THE SOLUTION. The US needs a more comprehensive can afford a more comprehensive boots and transportation ground led effort. We will need to follow the NARCO money. I am not sure if you realize this but the FEDs fight the drug trade not only with the product but the money laundering. This area is governed by the US Treasury Department. Do not give supply our allies with guns, they are stolen and used against us. The NRA convinces their base that it is overreach to track guns. We're part of America. We need representation and protection. NOT A FENCE.
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Post by verdepea on Jan 28, 2017 18:29:23 GMT
It's not actually about stopping illegal immigration--it never was. It's about playing to his base and making his construction cronies BIlLLIONS of dollars. If Trump just wants to make his cronies billions, then why did Former President Obama and HRC vote in favor of H.R. 6061, The Secure Fence Act of 2006? I do know they changed their stance a couple of years later, but the approval was there. 1. Neither Obama or Hillary hold seats in politics so that is no longer relevant to the discussion. 2. I will speculate that maybe they changed their minds because it was an ineffective money pit.
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Post by anxiousmom on Jan 28, 2017 18:33:06 GMT
Interesting fact: Florida tends to have a pretty high number of undocumented workers. Query: Are they going to build a wall around my state? That wall, no matter how high, isn't going to stop anything around here-last I heard, the 'Mexicans' only make up less than 50% of the illegal immigrant population. The rest are comprised of a host of other nationalities (both South and Latin America and increasingly Chinese) and that damn wall would do zippo, zero, nada and nothing but cost ME money. Lord Jesus y'all, this is the most ridiculous non-solution ever dreamed up. It's not actually about stopping illegal immigration--it never was. It's about playing to his base and making his construction cronies BIlLLIONS of dollars. Of course it isn't about stopping illegal immigration. If it was, the stupid wall would be the very last solution. I get that people are sneaking around and slipping in, but that is not the only spot it happens...and frankly, if you want to completely stop it you need to build a flipping dome. A dome like in the book that can't be gone around, through, under, over or any other kind of way. No secret doors either. Solutions? Oh...their plenty. But seems to me that right up until the wall talk, no one wanted to pay for what it would take. Now? Oh sure, build a will and think you can force a whole other independent and autonomous county to do your bidding is just crazy talk. Mexico is not a wayward toddler than can be manipulated into doing your bidding. Stupidest damn idea ever. /rant
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 20, 2024 19:00:21 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2017 18:46:08 GMT
If Trump just wants to make his cronies billions, then why did Former President Obama and HRC vote in favor of H.R. 6061, The Secure Fence Act of 2006? I do know they changed their stance a couple of years later, but the approval was there. 1. Neither Obama or Hillary hold seats in politics so that is no longer relevant to the discussion. 2. I will speculate that maybe they changed their minds because it was an ineffective money pit. I disagree--it is relevant because this isn't the first time the issue of building a wall has come up, and it passed. There was democratic support then, but because now it's Trump it's self-serving. And the bit I heard about them changing their minds is because they didn't like what/how it was written (which I don't know those tidbits).
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katybee
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,378
Jun 25, 2014 23:25:39 GMT
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Post by katybee on Jan 28, 2017 18:59:34 GMT
1. Neither Obama or Hillary hold seats in politics so that is no longer relevant to the discussion. 2. I will speculate that maybe they changed their minds because it was an ineffective money pit. I disagree--it is relevant because this isn't the first time the issue of building a wall has come up, and it passed. There was democratic support then, but because now it's Trump it's self-serving. And the bit I heard about them changing their minds is because they didn't like what/how it was written (which I don't know those tidbits). Democrats were against the wall LONG BEFORE Trump suggested it. Maybe they changed their minds because they came to their senses and figured out what a ridiculous failure and waste of money it would be...
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used2scrap
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,036
Jan 29, 2016 3:02:55 GMT
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Post by used2scrap on Jan 28, 2017 19:42:36 GMT
I disagree--it is relevant because this isn't the first time the issue of building a wall has come up, and it passed. There was democratic support then, but because now it's Trump it's self-serving. And the bit I heard about them changing their minds is because they didn't like what/how it was written (which I don't know those tidbits). Democrats were against the wall LONG BEFORE Trump suggested it. Maybe they changed their minds because they came to their senses and figured out what a ridiculous failure and waste of money it would be... Or maybe because they found alternative, less costly means to reduce the flow across the southern border?
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 20, 2024 19:00:21 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2017 19:57:00 GMT
Democrats were against the wall LONG BEFORE Trump suggested it. Maybe they changed their minds because they came to their senses and figured out what a ridiculous failure and waste of money it would be... Or maybe because they found alternative, less costly means to reduce the flow across the southern border? That could very well be also. I also know not all of the Republicans are on board with this. The point is this issue, along with many other hot issues, are not all new to Trump. I agree with and can understand some of the anger, concerns, fears, and there's plenty to be pissed about Trump over. I get it, I really do. But this isn't our Country's first rodeo in trying to come up with a solution.
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Post by crazy4scraps on Jan 28, 2017 20:08:23 GMT
It's not actually about stopping illegal immigration--it never was. It's about playing to his base and making his construction cronies BIlLLIONS of dollars. If Trump just wants to make his cronies billions, then why did Former President Obama and HRC vote in favor of H.R. 6061, The Secure Fence Act of 2006? I do know they changed their stance a couple of years later, but the approval was there. I think there's a pretty big difference between a 700 mile long fence and an almost 2,000 mile long wall that will cost billions of dollars.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 20, 2024 19:00:21 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2017 20:23:24 GMT
If Trump just wants to make his cronies billions, then why did Former President Obama and HRC vote in favor of H.R. 6061, The Secure Fence Act of 2006? I do know they changed their stance a couple of years later, but the approval was there. I think there's a pretty big difference between a 700 mile long fence and an almost 2,000 mile long wall that will cost billions of dollars. So if it was just going to be 700 mile fence all would be on board still?
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Post by anxiousmom on Jan 28, 2017 20:33:05 GMT
Or maybe because they found alternative, less costly means to reduce the flow across the southern border? That could very well be also. I also know not all of the Republicans are on board with this. The point is this issue, along with many other hot issues, are not all new to Trump. I agree with and can understand some of the anger, concerns, fears, and there's plenty to be pissed about Trump over. I get it, I really do. But this isn't our Country's first rodeo in trying to come up with a solution. It may not be our first rodeo, but I swear that if we took the stupid wall (and prior to that fencing) completely out of the equation then people would look for alternative solutions because they would not use physical barriers as the automatic default. I'll also add that this is one of those situations that people have to be willing to put our money where our mouth is. People are clamoring for the solution that coincidentally don't think they have to pay for. If the issue is so intolerable, then step up and say you are willing to fund a solution and quit bitching.
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flute4peace
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,757
Jul 3, 2014 14:38:35 GMT
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Post by flute4peace on Jan 28, 2017 20:52:47 GMT
DING, DING, DING..... WE HAVE A WINNER KATYBEE... " Its about playing to his base and "making his construction cronies BILLIONS of Dollars"..and in return they make laws on how to avoid paying their fair share of taxes on our tax revenue. How can a man from NEW YORK CITY (thanks PACE PICANTE) understand the complexity of the situation and offer long term effective solutions? From CNN: Building Trump's wall: For Texans, it's complicated (If I cant get my link to work) CNN: Building Trump's wall: For Texans, it's complicated Texas Congressional Members DO NOT support WALLTRUMPLets play a game of true or false. (Hint believe it or not they are all true statements about the pathological liar Trump) Who has experience with developing projects? Who refuses to release his tax returns or divest from his numerous businesses? Who has not paid federal taxes on the millions of dollars he has earned over the last 10 years? It leads us back to the question who benefits most financially from WALLTRUMP? Very plausible answer: TRUMP and CRONIES SHELL CORPORATIONS, Llc. WALLTRUMP IS NOT THE SOLUTION. The US needs a more comprehensive can afford a more comprehensive boots and transportation ground led effort. We will need to follow the NARCO money. I am not sure if you realize this but the FEDs fight the drug trade not only with the product but the money laundering. This area is governed by the US Treasury Department. Do not give supply our allies with guns, they are stolen and used against us. The NRA convinces their base that it is overreach to track guns. We're part of America. We need representation and protection. NOT A FENCE. Maybe if we get a rope. ... (See what I did there??)
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flute4peace
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,757
Jul 3, 2014 14:38:35 GMT
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Post by flute4peace on Jan 28, 2017 20:55:35 GMT
Democrats were against the wall LONG BEFORE Trump suggested it. Maybe they changed their minds because they came to their senses and figured out what a ridiculous failure and waste of money it would be... Or maybe because they found alternative, less costly means to reduce the flow across the southern border? Exactly. How many extra border patrol officers could $35 bill pay for.
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Post by crazy4scraps on Jan 28, 2017 23:50:55 GMT
I think there's a pretty big difference between a 700 mile long fence and an almost 2,000 mile long wall that will cost billions of dollars. So if it was just going to be 700 mile fence all would be on board still? They already put up a bunch of fencing. From Wikipedia (bolded emphasis mine):
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Dalai Mama
Drama Llama
La Pea Boheme
Posts: 6,985
Jun 26, 2014 0:31:31 GMT
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Post by Dalai Mama on Jan 28, 2017 23:55:25 GMT
I think there's a pretty big difference between a 700 mile long fence and an almost 2,000 mile long wall that will cost billions of dollars. So if it was just going to be 700 mile fence all would be on board still? No, but at least the stupidity would come with a lower price tag.
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Post by jonda1974 on Jan 31, 2017 18:27:00 GMT
Well the ideal would be to make the option of coming here illegally so horrible, and the idea of coming here legally so great, that people only come here legally. I think you make it 100% impossible for them to obtain work, housing, government benefits of any kind, and basically when caught they are put on the roster to never be able to apply for citizenship ever. In terms of making countries pay, and put the people in jail. You are right, we can't force it. But we can just drop these criminals off, and let them deal with them. If they make it into the US, the country of origin doesn't have to accept them back. They could simply say nope, not ours, we're not taking them back. What then? Leave them sitting on detention here? I don't disagree with some of your ideas, but I think your greatly simplifying the ability to send them back, especially, if other countries don't want to cooperate and the expense of doing so. I would much rather continue with O'bamas policy of deporting those who are committing crimes here (other than being here illegally) and then focus on immigration reform to allow for easier immigration especially for those who are crossing the border to work on a agriculture and other related fields. I would also like to see some sort of solution for the Dreamers who didn't choose to come here but we're brought here as children. Given the conditions in many of the countries that these people are fleeing from, you're not going to be able to make the US seem so unwelcoming that it discourages them from coming. The other piece that I think is crucial is a crack down on businesses hiring illegal immigrants. Give them a legal. Way to bring immigrants in if they need them for work and then severely penalize businesses that hire illegal immigrants. Make is so expensive for the business that doing it costs them more than hiring people here legally. My thought is you just put them on a plane, and when they land they are their problem. Or take away all aid, and put sanctions on the countries refusing to take them back. Everything else I agree with.
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Post by friendly on Jan 31, 2017 18:56:37 GMT
I think through bullying them, or as he puts is "making deals". I don't know how much we give Mexico for other things each year, but he could just say "we are keeping that money as your first payment." I don't know how many decades it would take to pay for our billion dollar wall. Not sure. But then again, if you consider the "savings" in welfare monies, educating, providing medical care for and the costs of crimes committed by illegal aliens, it'll get paid a lot quicker. Illegal aliens cannot get welfare or medicaid.
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Post by crimsoncat05 on Jan 31, 2017 19:05:09 GMT
oh, let's not confuse the conversation with facts, now...
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Post by Darcy Collins on Jan 31, 2017 20:55:29 GMT
Not sure. But then again, if you consider the "savings" in welfare monies, educating, providing medical care for and the costs of crimes committed by illegal aliens, it'll get paid a lot quicker. Illegal aliens cannot get welfare or medicaid. While not eligible for medicaid, we do however provide emergency services and federal funds do reimburse hospitals for at least part of those costs.
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Post by friendly on Jan 31, 2017 21:57:44 GMT
Illegal aliens cannot get welfare or medicaid. While not eligible for medicaid, we do however provide emergency services and federal funds do reimburse hospitals for at least part of those costs. Right, but they can only get emergency care but not medicaid or welfare.
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Post by papersilly on Jan 31, 2017 22:06:58 GMT
While not eligible for medicaid, we do however provide emergency services and federal funds do reimburse hospitals for at least part of those costs. Right, but they can only get emergency care but not medicaid or welfare. does cancer treatment count as emergency care? i ask because i know someone who received chemo treatment when he got cancer. he is undocumented. he is unable to pay but he got treatment until his cancer went into remission. no questions asked about his immigration status. they just treated his cancer.
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Post by friendly on Feb 1, 2017 1:23:22 GMT
Right, but they can only get emergency care but not medicaid or welfare. does cancer treatment count as emergency care? i ask because i know someone who received chemo treatment when he got cancer. he is undocumented. he is unable to pay but he got treatment until his cancer went into remission. no questions asked about his immigration status. they just treated his cancer. I have no idea.
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