|
Post by jackie on Nov 14, 2019 17:40:27 GMT
You guys, yes women should just say “Get your freaking hands off of me!” But this is not the real world. This isn’t corporate America where you can talk to HR. This is a game for a million dollars. To win the game you have to be liked and trusted and you have to avoid pissing people off. Say one wrong thing and it could cost you your game. You leave your families and jobs and live in super difficult surroundings all for the chance to win a million. What a person would do in that situation could be very, very different than what the would do in real life. It just is.
And I still contend that it was not stupid to not play the idol. If so, does that mean anytime a player gets an idol they should immediately play it at the next tribal? Because every tribal you go to w/o an immunity necklace around your neck there is a possibility you’ll get voted out. But that’s not how to play. When to play or not play those idols is a game of calculated risk. Kellee thought she was in very good shape with the people she aligned with so she made a decision. Sadly it was the wrong one but I definitely don’t think it makes her stupid or deserving to go home. Anyway, that’s my opinion.
|
|
|
Post by jackie on Nov 14, 2019 17:41:09 GMT
Oh, and I agree about Dan. I wouldn’t be surprised at all if some stuff comes out.
|
|
|
Post by bc2ca on Nov 14, 2019 17:52:51 GMT
I found this episode very disturbing & difficult to watch. But I watched it in real time & then double checked my recording, that yes in fact Missy was complaining about how she felt uncomfortable with Dan but then denied it when he confronted them and with Janet. Me too. You know what really irked me?? It was like Dan had NO IDEA about these allegations YET--what scrolled on the screen said otherwise. The whole thing stinks. I can't put my finger on it but something is not sitting right The whole episode made me sick. Jamal was the only guy that got it. Dan in tears, begging Jeff to let it go at tribal was gross and tells me he knew exactly what the allegations were and somehow thought the warning meant he was protected from things being made public. But then he frigging tried to run his hands through Kellee's hair and chased her to the water! I felt horrible for Janet and disgusted by everyone else.
|
|
|
Post by cadoodlebug on Nov 14, 2019 18:07:03 GMT
You guys, yes women should just say “Get your freaking hands off of me!” But this is not the real world. This isn’t corporate America where you can talk to HR. This is a game for a million dollars. To win the game you have to be liked and trusted and you have to avoid pissing people off. Say one wrong thing and it could cost you your game. You leave your families and jobs and live in super difficult surroundings all for the chance to win a million. What a person would do in that situation could be very, very different than what the would do in real life. It just is. And I still contend that it was not stupid to not play the idol. If so, does that mean anytime a player gets an idol they should immediately play it at the next tribal? Because every tribal you go to w/o an immunity necklace around your neck there is a possibility you’ll get voted out. But that’s not how to play. When to play or not play those idols is a game of calculated risk. Kellee thought she was in very good shape with the people she aligned with so she made a decision. Sadly it was the wrong one but I definitely don’t think it makes her stupid or deserving to go home. Anyway, that’s my opinion. When she turned to Lauren and whispered *Are we good Lo?* my heart just sank. THAT is what she based her decision on whether to play the idol or not.
|
|
mich5481
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,570
Member is Online
Oct 2, 2017 23:20:46 GMT
|
Post by mich5481 on Nov 14, 2019 19:19:58 GMT
You guys, yes women should just say “Get your freaking hands off of me!” But this is not the real world. This isn’t corporate America where you can talk to HR. This is a game for a million dollars. To win the game you have to be liked and trusted and you have to avoid pissing people off. Say one wrong thing and it could cost you your game. You leave your families and jobs and live in super difficult surroundings all for the chance to win a million. What a person would do in that situation could be very, very different than what the would do in real life. It just is. And I still contend that it was not stupid to not play the idol. If so, does that mean anytime a player gets an idol they should immediately play it at the next tribal? Because every tribal you go to w/o an immunity necklace around your neck there is a possibility you’ll get voted out. But that’s not how to play. When to play or not play those idols is a game of calculated risk. Kellee thought she was in very good shape with the people she aligned with so she made a decision. Sadly it was the wrong one but I definitely don’t think it makes her stupid or deserving to go home. Anyway, that’s my opinion. When she turned to Lauren and whispered *Are we good Lo?* my heart just sank. THAT is what she based her decision on whether to play the idol or not. That's the second time this season that a person asked "are we good?" has lied (the first was Aaron lying to Tommy). I think if you have to ask, you probably aren't good. I wonder if Dan bails on the reunion show. I also wonder what Ponderosa will be like after Dan is voted out, unless the other players keep him around as a goat - after all, who wants to give Captain Inappropriate a million dollars?
|
|
|
Post by bc2ca on Nov 14, 2019 19:25:51 GMT
Is it wrong I'm now hoping for a Janet, Noura and Karishma final three?
I really want the rest of these masterminds take each other out.
|
|
|
Post by cadoodlebug on Nov 14, 2019 19:27:24 GMT
|
|
|
Post by jackie on Nov 14, 2019 19:51:09 GMT
Is it wrong I'm now hoping for a Janet, Noura and Karishma final three? I really what the rest of these masterminds take each other out. Lol....I don’t p think that’s wrong. Never thought I could possibly root for Karishma or Noura but I just might, especially with what’s left. I’m on the fence though about Tommy and Elaine, maybe even Lauren. I’m not sure they were fully involved or aware of the ugliness. I’ll withhold my judgment on them for the moment. The rest of them can go fall in a sinkhole.
|
|
|
Post by femalebusiness on Nov 14, 2019 20:23:35 GMT
I don't care if you are in corporate America, in church or on Survivor no woman should let some random dude paw them without putting an immediate stop to it, million dollars or not. Women put up with that crap to keep a home, a job or a meal ticket too and I just don't get it. That is why men get away with it and why it keeps happening. There was no doubt that Dan was pawing Kellee, it was on film.
Kellee should have known she was at risk for complaining about Dan. Women rarely come out on top in those situations. If she only had one idol I could understand risking not playing it but two? Foolishness in the situation that she was in. How many times have people said, are we good and then gotten voted out? That is how Survivor is played.
|
|
|
Post by jackie on Nov 14, 2019 20:37:53 GMT
I don't care if you are in corporate America, in church or on Survivor no woman should let some random dude paw them without putting an immediate stop to it, million dollars or not. Women put up with that crap to keep a home, a job or a meal ticket too and I just don't get it. That is why men get away with it and why it keeps happening. There was no doubt that Dan was pawing Kellee, it was on film. Kellee should have known she was at risk for complaining about Dan. Women rarely come out on top in those situations. If she only had one idol I could understand risking not playing it but two? Foolishness in the situation that she was in. How many times have people said, are we good and then gotten voted out? That is how Survivor is played. Well just have to agree to disagree with most what you’ve just said. And that’s okay by me; it’s what we do here. Peas, if you haven’t read Dalton’s recap, you should. I thought he did a great job some really insightful analysis IMO.
|
|
|
Post by cadoodlebug on Nov 14, 2019 20:51:46 GMT
I don't care if you are in corporate America, in church or on Survivor no woman should let some random dude paw them without putting an immediate stop to it, million dollars or not. Women put up with that crap to keep a home, a job or a meal ticket too and I just don't get it. That is why men get away with it and why it keeps happening. There was no doubt that Dan was pawing Kellee, it was on film. Kellee should have known she was at risk for complaining about Dan. Women rarely come out on top in those situations. If she only had one idol I could understand risking not playing it but two? Foolishness in the situation that she was in. How many times have people said, are we good and then gotten voted out? That is how Survivor is played. Well just have to agree to disagree with most what you’ve just said. And that’s okay by me; it’s what we do here. Peas, if you haven’t read Dalton’s recap, you should. I thought he did a great job some really insightful analysis IMO. And the interview I posted with Dalton interviewing Jeff.
|
|
|
Post by jackie on Nov 14, 2019 21:36:28 GMT
Yes Joy, that too—good stuff, whether you agree or disagree with all of their thoughts.
|
|
Country Ham
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,313
Jun 25, 2014 19:32:08 GMT
|
Post by Country Ham on Nov 15, 2019 0:33:10 GMT
What have I missed? I watched every episode. Kellee said he made her feel uncomfortable, yet he's being accused of sexual assault on social media and Kellee is the 'victim' and him her 'harasser'. I have had males in my life make me feel uncomfortable and skeevish, even acted inappropriate in situations but it was a far cry from them abusing me. Be interesting to see what next week's episode holds. And those other 2 showed there is no limit to what people will do in order to win a game.
ETA: wonder if this will change the game in the future. Different sleeping arrangements, even on Big Brother, I always found it odd they never provided everyone with their own single beds.
|
|
Country Ham
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,313
Jun 25, 2014 19:32:08 GMT
|
Post by Country Ham on Nov 15, 2019 0:43:39 GMT
And I still contend that it was not stupid to not play the idol. If so, does that mean anytime a player gets an idol they should immediately play it at the next tribal? Because every tribal you go to w/o an immunity necklace around your neck there is a possibility you’ll get voted out. But that’s not how to play. When to play or not play those idols is a game of calculated risk. Kellee thought she was in very good shape with the people she aligned with so she made a decision. Sadly it was the wrong one but I definitely don’t think it makes her stupid or deserving to go home. Anyway, that’s my opinion. I would agree with everything you said here EXCEPT she had 2 idols. That's a different ballgame. Play one and the odds of anyone even suspecting you had another would be slim.
|
|
|
Post by Skellinton on Nov 15, 2019 1:01:51 GMT
And I still contend that it was not stupid to not play the idol. If so, does that mean anytime a player gets an idol they should immediately play it at the next tribal? Because every tribal you go to w/o an immunity necklace around your neck there is a possibility you’ll get voted out. But that’s not how to play. When to play or not play those idols is a game of calculated risk. Kellee thought she was in very good shape with the people she aligned with so she made a decision. Sadly it was the wrong one but I definitely don’t think it makes her stupid or deserving to go home. Anyway, that’s my opinion. I would agree with everything you said here EXCEPT she had 2 idols. That's a different ballgame. Play one and the odds of anyone even suspecting you had another would be slim. Yep, since she had two I think it was incredibly stupid not to play one. And after she played it another one would be planted and she had a good chance of finding it again.
|
|
zella
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,884
Jul 7, 2014 19:36:30 GMT
|
Post by zella on Nov 15, 2019 4:48:52 GMT
jackie, I agree with everything you said. Except. I am pretty sure if you go back and watch all the episodes that both Missy and Elizabeth had indeed complained about Dan's touchy-feeliness, and that they didn't like it. I think they are both shits for lying about it (that's what I believe they did) at TC and throwing poor Janet to the wolves. Janet is my fucking hero right now. She's the only one who did what she thought was right. I also give kudos to Jamal for his speech. He gets it. Good for you, Jamal. Right now I have to say I despise at least half of those left. These last two episodes have left a VERY bad taste in my mouth. And I am not at ALL sure the production team went far enough with how the handled the Dan situation. How many effing chances has he had? Way too many!
|
|
|
Post by jackie on Nov 15, 2019 5:53:46 GMT
Thanks Zella. I agree with everything you said too. I even rewatched a few episodes to remind me of all the Dan complaints. There were many, not just Kellee. I’ll be interested to see how this plays out and even more interested to hear what’s said at the reunion. Once Dan sees the show, if he has any integrity left, he should feel like a real shit after he sees what those women did to Janet and how tore up she was voting him out. I HATED listening to Liz and Missy telling Dan what a snake Janet was and how they weren’t going to speak to her the next day. Grrrr! Janet won’t win but I think she’s beloved by all the fans. Hey, maybe Sia will present her with a check at the finale. That would be cool!
|
|
mich5481
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,570
Member is Online
Oct 2, 2017 23:20:46 GMT
|
Post by mich5481 on Nov 15, 2019 13:37:55 GMT
So on www.ew.com/survivor there is an apology video from Aaron and an article about apologies from Missy and Elizabeth. Nothing from Dan (but I'd bet his attorneys and/or PR person advised him against speaking publicly about it). Also, no exit interviews from Kellee and Jamal. I did think it was interesting Dalton didn't specify anything about the timing of when those would be posted in his episode recap (normally he plugs his podcast with the booted players at the end of the recap). Next week is a double elimination. I wonder if Aaron will be targeted if he loses immunity since he's won both immunity challenges so far?
|
|
|
Post by jackie on Nov 15, 2019 14:14:06 GMT
Wow Mich, thanks for sharing that! This has really blown up. My thought is that when someone admits to a mistake and offers what appears to be a sincere apology, that’s good for me. I hope they don’t continue to suffer consequences for this. I’ll admit I was angry with those three during that episode. Very angry. I also recognize that the situation they’re in is stressful and high pressure, that there are nuances and conversations going on that they aren’t aware of, and that in the pursuit of winning This game, questionable decisions could be made. I would like to think I would never behave this way, but I would never go on a reality TV show either. And while I feel I would never behave the way they did, I know it’s possible that I could say or do things I was embarrassed about and later regretted. Good for them for stepping up. I’ve seen some situations where people on Survivor behaved terribly and refused to acknowledge it. So this goes a long way for me and hopefully this and the public support provide some comfort for Janet and Kellee.
I’ll be interested to hear what Dan has to say and how this all plays out at the reunion.
|
|
|
Post by leslie132 on Nov 15, 2019 14:40:58 GMT
Ok. I never post serious talk on these threads, but I have to be serious here.
Those 2 woman, and then Aaron completely turned my stomach on Thursday. I sat there with my mouth hanging open and listened to them say they will say whatever to further their game, and they can easily separate it from reality verse game play. Saying lies or even half truths on such a serious matter is not game play. There is a line. When you cross it that is a HUGE look at who YOU are as a person.
It reminds me of the guy trying to play too hard at tribal and he outed Zeke. It was his way of playing the game until it all clicked, and he then realized in so many days the game play was over and he had just ruined someone’s life, as they knew it. The game lasts 39 days on the island......what are they thinking will happen for the rest of their lives.
Because of their lies they trivialized Kellee and her situation, and make it harder on all the other woman who are trying to find their voice. 2 strong athletic woman just made a bad mistake in this game....throw out the rice, let the chickens run wild, hide someone’s bag....... don’t make up lies that effect other people at this level.
I could not stand Jamal. He had a really aggressive nature about him in the beginning. Maybe not aggressive, but it’s my way because that’s the best way. I did not like him......but what he said last night was amazing. Aaron is arrogant and needed to be brought down. I’m glad Jamal did that before he left the game.
Janet is going to be a fan favorite and will get called to play again. She played with her moral code and that says a lot about her. She really impressed me...... she actually has since the game started. I’d love her or Tommy to win at this point!
IMO..... Dan isn’t a stranger to these accusations. He is going to find himself in a storm of controversy. I do think there are more stories that will be coming out about him!
|
|
|
Post by jackie on Nov 15, 2019 14:59:34 GMT
Absolutely agree with everything you said Leslie. Either Dalton or Jeff brought up the whole Zeke outing in their commentary—its a valid comparison. I agree that some lies are okay and part of the game, but this stuff transcends that. Very well said. Did you read the apology links Mich posted? What are your thoughts on those?
|
|
|
Post by leslie132 on Nov 15, 2019 15:33:05 GMT
Absolutely agree with everything you said Leslie. Either Dalton or Jeff brought up the whole Zeke outing in their commentary—its a valid comparison. I agree that some lies are okay and part of the game, but this stuff transcends that. Very well said. Did you read the apology links Mich posted? What are your thoughts on those? I didn’t know anyone else compared it to Zeke..... I’m glad that my memory of game play is crisp . I will say that at least at Zekes outing the opponent got what he did. It may have taken HOURS of sitting there, but when I watched that episode it was like watching a light bulb go off over his head. His eyes changed and he realized what he did. As wrong as he was, my heart ached because the worst lessons to learn are the ones you can’t go back and fix! I just read the apologies and watched the video. Elizabeth felt very sincere. The other 2 girls..... not so much. They did it as damage control and nothing more. Aaron’s apology....I expected to get mad watching it. I hate apologizes that try to explain instead of appease. Aaron in my opinion gave a terrific apology. He didn’t give one reason for why he did it, instead he apologized and stated there was no call for it. He was wrong. There is no way to justify that behavior. I LOVE a good apology, and I appreciate how hard it can be to give a good apology. Aaron really delivered in my opinion!! Jackie.... what did you think of the apologies.
|
|
|
Post by cadoodlebug on Nov 15, 2019 17:08:44 GMT
I watched Aaron's apology and it seemed genuine. A lot of people aren't buying it. And I read that his wife said it is the editing that is at fault. What a tool. What she said isn't helpful to his cause.
In the world of social media, unfortunately many are cynical and say people only apologize when they are crucified online. I was listening to a radio show this morning and they wondered if society has always been like this and it's just that now people can say anything they want online anonymously or has social media made people like this.
|
|
mich5481
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,570
Member is Online
Oct 2, 2017 23:20:46 GMT
|
Post by mich5481 on Nov 15, 2019 17:42:26 GMT
I noticed Kellee's Twitter retweeted Aaron's apology yesterday and thanked him for it. When I looked earlier, she hadn't commented about the other apologies.
|
|
finaledition
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,896
Jun 26, 2014 0:30:34 GMT
|
Post by finaledition on Nov 15, 2019 18:25:51 GMT
@leslie123 I 100% agree with you. I have watched every single episode from every single season, but I’m will not finish out this season. I’m done. I just found Liz and Missy’s behavior so over the line. In this era where women are asking and demanding to be heard, needing the support of other women- to dismiss what Dan did and insult other women, it just disgusts me. It really is a slap in the face to all women who have bravely stood up and shared their truth. So I just can’t watch how this plays out this season. I wish Janet all the best and I hope she feels the gratitude of all the women she was trying to support.
|
|
|
Post by femalebusiness on Nov 15, 2019 19:39:08 GMT
@leslie123 I 100% agree with you. I have watched every single episode from every single season, but I’m will not finish out this season. I’m done. I just found Liz and Missy’s behavior so over the line. In this era where women are asking and demanding to be heard, needing the support of other women- to dismiss what Dan did and insult other women, it just disgusts me. It really is a slap in the face to all women who have bravely stood up and shared their truth. So I just can’t watch how this plays out this season. I wish Janet all the best and I hope she feels the gratitude of all the women she was trying to support. I agree. I am probably done with Survivor. I can't watch Big Brother any more either after that last season of racism. It has all gotten too scummy.
|
|
|
Post by jackie on Nov 15, 2019 20:17:38 GMT
I’m kind of a sap—I want to believe every one of them. People make mistakes and do or say really stupid things, especially in high stress situations like this. I can honestly say I do t think I would EVER behave the way some of them did, not even for the chance to win a mil. But, I could see me doing and saying some regrettable things, especially being filmed 24/7. I believe people deserve forgiveness and second chances. I absolutely will not root for any of them to win or make it to the finals though. They do NOT deserve that. It’s funny though. I went to breakfast with my son and his boyfriend. They don’t watch Survivor, but they see some of it in passing while they’re home. I was telling them about what had happened and about the Twitter apologies. They both looked skeptical. I was like come on, people can mess up. Everyone should get a chance to apologize! My son said that he thinks eight out of ten apologies are insincere and motivated by social media. Where did he get his cynicism? I’m also most certainly not done with Survivor, or even this season. I understand why some are. IMO there are still a few to root for. And I just still love this show. Every season is different. You just don’t know what you’re going to get. Sometimes it’s damn ugly, but sometimes it’s beautiful. We’ve seen some really wonderful behavior and moving speeches. Unfortunately the people who made them are mostly gone, but not all of them! It’s just like life—there’s some ugly and there’s some wonderful. So yeah, I’m definitely still in.
|
|
|
Post by leslie132 on Nov 15, 2019 22:10:21 GMT
Oh, I’m still in. I refuse to let liars and cheats run me off of a good show! I’m there to root for the good guys! I did watch Big Brother last season and had to stop when there were no more good guys left. I hope they cast better this next season!! jackie......your son maybe cynical, but he is right. They did a public apology to save face. I would think more of those girls if they had reached out to Janet and Keller privately and said their apologies. It will be brought up at the reunion and then either lady would have said how they apologized privately, and sincerely!!!! It weighs out a lot more that way.......but again, I give Aaron kudos because I believe his! I’m strange like that!
|
|
caangel
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,458
Location: So Cal
Jun 26, 2014 16:42:12 GMT
|
Post by caangel on Nov 16, 2019 0:25:08 GMT
Oh, I’m still in. I refuse to let liars and cheats run me off of a good show! I’m there to root for the good guys! I did watch Big Brother last season and had to stop when there were no more good guys left. I hope they cast better this next season!! jackie......your son maybe cynical, but he is right. They did a public apology to save face. I would think more of those girls if they had reached out to Janet and Keller privately and said their apologies. It will be brought up at the reunion and then either lady would have said how they apologized privately, and sincerely!!!! It weighs out a lot more that way.......but again, I give Aaron kudos because I believe his! I’m strange like that! But they could have already privately apologized. We don't know that they haven't. I think a public apology (in addition to a private apology) for something that happened publicly is appropriate.
|
|
|
Post by leslie132 on Nov 16, 2019 0:38:08 GMT
Oh, I’m still in. I refuse to let liars and cheats run me off of a good show! I’m there to root for the good guys! I did watch Big Brother last season and had to stop when there were no more good guys left. I hope they cast better this next season!! jackie......your son maybe cynical, but he is right. They did a public apology to save face. I would think more of those girls if they had reached out to Janet and Keller privately and said their apologies. It will be brought up at the reunion and then either lady would have said how they apologized privately, and sincerely!!!! It weighs out a lot more that way.......but again, I give Aaron kudos because I believe his! I’m strange like that! But they could have already privately apologized. We don't know that they haven't. I think a public apology (in addition to a private apology) for something that happened publicly is appropriate. Most cases that have a public apology tend to ring false to me. Or maybe I should say they ring like they are being done to save face. That is because I feel the world is driven by social media and having everything be public. Not everything needs to be public. I would have respected it more if both ladies (and Lauren) said I realize that I was not aware of all the facts. I’ve reached out and privately apologized. I felt those specific apologies were scripted, and not sincere in the slightest!! I also say if you like the public apology I’m glad you got it. What makes me more comfortable may not work for the next person. That is what makes the world a fascinating place
|
|