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Post by birukitty on Nov 16, 2019 2:14:51 GMT
I'm late getting to this thread and so much has been written about this last episode. I think women should always stick up for themselves whenever they feel violated no matter if it's in real life situations or on Survivor. I don't think it's worth the cost of a game or a chance at a million dollars to lie about it or let it go which is one of the many reasons I'm so pissed off at Missy and Elizabeth. Obviously it is up to the woman. Kellee tried. She told Dan in the first couple of episodes when it happened that she wasn't comfortable with his touching and that it had to stop. He ignored her and kept touching her in a way that made her feel creeped out. Can you imagine how extra stressful this made camp life and trying to play Surivor at the same time? Missy and Elizabeth also complained but I can't remember if it was directly to Dan or to other women. When they merged and Janet was there again they were so happy she was around again because she could "protect" them. They planned to vote Dan out (problem solved) but I think then the girls (Missy and Elizabeth) didn't hold to their promise with Janet to do so, and Janet was left looking as the bad guy. I feel so bad for Janet. She is the natural Mom figure. She was trying to help out her "girls" and instead they turned around and stabbed her in the back.
When Kellee was talking in the confessional on camera she broke down about Dan and his pawing her and that's when the camera guy said he could make it stop. That's when Jeff stepped in and the meetings were held. If it were me that was there and I was the one being pawed repeatedly by Dan after I'd told him it had to stop I would've reported his ass weeks ago. Yes, it might have very well put a target on my back, but my self worth, self dignity, and emotional health are worth a lot more than 1 million dollars. I do understand Kellee waiting-she's young and thought she could handle it herself. She's probably never come across something like this before. Missy and Elizabeth though-first saying yes, they were bothered by Dan's touching to Janet and then later denying they'd ever said anything, even going as far as telling Dan, "we're all good"-that was Elizabeth-well, they lost my respect forever and I hope they lose because they don't deserve to win. Yes, lying is part of Survivor, I get that. But like another Pea said, not this kind of lying. This kind of lying is the worst kind of lying. It's like the women who lie about being raped. What it did was instead of supporting Kellee like they should have, they let her down 100%. I will cheer like crazy when they get voted out.
Kellee and her idols. I was so sick inside when she didn't play at least one of her idols. She had two! She was so incredibly clever and played the game so well. She was playing 2 and 3 moves ahead and I was amazed by her game play. I was cheering so hard for her to win. I think she might have been tramautized emotionally be everything that was going on with Dan and especially by the girls who betrayed her that she wasn't thinking 100% clearly when she made her decision to not play an idol. That's the best reason I can come up with for someone who played the game so brillantly and then went home with 2 idols in their pocket. Yes, she trusted Lauren but as great as a player as she was I would think she would have played at least one of her idols since she had two.
I will continue to watch Survivor because I love it so. Hey I wasn't going to watch this season because Rob and Sandra were going to be coaches this time and Jackie talked me into giving it a try. Thanks so much for that Jackie! We've had horrible people on Survivor before. Remember one of the Hanz men (don't remember which one it was but I think it was Russell's nephew) who had to be taken out because he was having mental problems and becoming a danger to the other players? Dan is a total ass wipe and I know he won't win this game. With everything coming out I think he'll have to face the music when this season is over-at home and because of what he did to Kellee.
Oh, I almost forgot Jamal. I loved it when Jamal made that speech at tribal council and put Aaron in his place. He spoke from the heart and it was an eloquent and heartfelt speech that really hit the nail on the head. Good for Jamal. I wish he could have stayed longer and Aaron would have been voted out!
Right now I'm rooting for Janet and Elaine.
I haven't read anything that was posted by Dalton, Jeff or anything else like the apologies. I like to come and post my thoughts after watching the episode before reading anything online.
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Post by cadoodlebug on Nov 16, 2019 2:57:08 GMT
When we had the initial tribal swap, were Kellee and Dan still on the same tribe? I can't remember.
I can't remember what Elaine did but I'm lukewarm on her now.
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Post by kels99 on Nov 16, 2019 3:20:20 GMT
Oh, I almost forgot Jamal. I loved it when Jamal made that speech at tribal council and put Aaron in his place. He spoke from the heart and it was an eloquent and heartfelt speech that really hit the nail on the head. Good for Jamal. I wish he could have stayed longer and Aaron would have been voted out! Jamal definitely did good for his like-ability with that speech at Tribal. I watched his Ponderosa video (I'd never watched any of them before) and like him even more now! He seems like a good guy.
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Post by bc2ca on Nov 16, 2019 4:03:08 GMT
When we had the initial tribal swap, were Kellee and Dan still on the same tribe? I can't remember. I can't remember what Elaine did but I'm lukewarm on her now. No, it was the merge that brought them back together. birukitty , Kellee's initial problems with Dan went away when the swap put them on different tribes. She had to deal with Dan's touchy feely behavior again when the merge happened. In one of the links up thread, someone (Dalton? Jeff?) talks about why the cameras/production ended up in the episode. They didn't have any clean (meaning no cameras, etc.) video of Dan touching Kellee so used what they did have. The creepy wanting to touch her hair and chasing down the beach saying "my hands are clean" piece was a great example of what not to do after someone has had a heartfelt conversation with you a couple weeks ago and production issued warnings a day ago.
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Post by birukitty on Nov 16, 2019 22:51:12 GMT
When we had the initial tribal swap, were Kellee and Dan still on the same tribe? I can't remember. I can't remember what Elaine did but I'm lukewarm on her now. No, it was the merge that brought them back together. birukitty , Kellee's initial problems with Dan went away when the swap put them on different tribes. She had to deal with Dan's touchy feely behavior again when the merge happened. In one of the links up thread, someone (Dalton? Jeff?) talks about why the cameras/production ended up in the episode. They didn't have any clean (meaning no cameras, etc.) video of Dan touching Kellee so used what they did have. The creepy wanting to touch her hair and chasing down the beach saying "my hands are clean" piece was a great example of what not to do after someone has had a heartfelt conversation with you a couple weeks ago and production issued warnings a day ago. Oops, yes forgot that part about the swap putting Kellee and Dan on seperate tribes so she didn't have to deal with him for awhile, then with the merge there he was again right next to her and like you said touching her hair and chasing her down the beach. What a creep! To me he is a predator. It makes more sense to me now that Kellee broke down when she did while talking to the camera-she was faced with living with Dan again and he wasn't listening to her at all about not touching her-he was continuing whatever he wanted to do with his creepy ways. I still haven't watched any of the videos. I have a lot going on this weekend. It's my Dad's 80th birthday on Sunday. I'll get to the videos before the next episode on Wednesday.
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Post by SweetieBugs on Nov 17, 2019 0:52:47 GMT
It's been a while, but remember how Dan was the first few days. I remember him dripping sweat everywhere and trying to give everyone (girls mostly) back rubs and neck rubs. Didn't he lay his head in Kellee's lap without even asking?? All of that behavior would have set me completely over the top!!! Hearing his "heart felt" confusion and apology at tribal council means he is completely clueless!! I can't even imagine how many ladies he has made uncomfortable in his lifetime.
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mich5481
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,570
Oct 2, 2017 23:20:46 GMT
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Post by mich5481 on Nov 17, 2019 1:10:10 GMT
I'll add one more thing that's been bugging me. When Dan offered his "apology" during Tribal Council, he mentioned something about it being Kellee's truth. No, Dan, it was THE truth - the video tapes support it. By saying it was her truth, he undermines her because others could chalk it up to an overly emotional, hysterical female trope. 😡
I hope some of Dan's clients have fired him because of this situation.
Also, no exit interviews have been posted... I wonder if there is a reason behind the delay?
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Post by cme37 on Nov 18, 2019 15:05:25 GMT
I was late watching this episode, but finally got to it over the weekend. What I don't understand is why were the conversations with production not brought up at tribal? If they talked with everyone about it, why did some act like they didn't know what was going on? I was confused by that.
Those women (they are not girls) were awful. The way they ganged up on Janet back at camp when they were talking with Dan was horrible.
I was reading twitter about it, and some older players were trying to excuse everything by saying the way they edit the players made everything look worse than it was. I did wonder if they edited out Missy and Elisabeth not saying anything at tribal. They surely did not sit there the entire time and say nothing. And Janet tweeted that Tommy did stand up for her at tribal but they didn't show any of that. The editing doesn't excuse Dan at all because he was shown multiple times touching Kellee without her consent. But the fallout seems to have been edited quite a bit. This whole thing just feels so odd and weird to me. Like we are missing part of the story.
Anyways, Kellee should have definitely played one of her idols. And I was sad that Jamal was sent home too. He seems like a stand up guy.
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Country Ham
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,313
Jun 25, 2014 19:32:08 GMT
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Post by Country Ham on Nov 18, 2019 22:36:18 GMT
I was late watching this episode, but finally got to it over the weekend. What I don't understand is why were the conversations with production not brought up at tribal? If they talked with everyone about it, why did some act like they didn't know what was going on? I was confused by that. Some things did seem out of order to me. I wonder how things were edited. At some point during the episode they announced on screen that production spoke to Kellee and all the contestants and to Dan. Then it seemed like some were not on the same page. It makes me wonder the true order of events. Same with the online thoughts and analysis and public vs private apologies. What we saw didn't just happen last week. It happened months ago and nothing could be said about it until it aired. So everyone involved had lots of time to plan their reactions for when the show aired. I still question how he went from being creepy, or making someone uncomfortable to being accused of sexual assault in the media.
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Post by cadoodlebug on Nov 21, 2019 5:52:16 GMT
Wow, two strong players got knocked out tonight with a double elimination! Aaron and Missy were voted off after the survivors were put into 2 teams and the winner of each got immunity and the 2 groups went to separate TC's. Everyone expected Karishma and Janet to be voted out.
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Post by bc2ca on Nov 21, 2019 6:54:53 GMT
Wow, two strong players got knocked out tonight with a double elimination! Aaron and Missy were voted off after the survivors were put into 2 teams and the winner of each got immunity and the 2 groups went to separate TC's. Everyone expected Karishma and Janet to be voted out. I think it is fair to say Aaron, Missy and Elizabeth expected Karishma and Janet to be voted out, but really every other person was in on the votes weren't they? I loved the way this episode went down and Elaine has redeemed herself a bit IMHO. I love that no one is sitting back this season.
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Post by candygurl on Nov 21, 2019 13:28:03 GMT
Okay sorry to say but karishma is a little crazy lol! She did a good job hiding her idol though. Really, if you sit around and not help people will resent you. Be social and help! I’m kind of glad missy got out...I like her before but after she pulled the Dan stunt she’s like the leader of a girl group. She could’ve won the game I believe. Now I really want Elaine or Janet to win. Don’t think they will as they are both likeable and the others won’t want to sit next to them at the final three.
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Post by cadoodlebug on Nov 21, 2019 15:19:29 GMT
Wow, two strong players got knocked out tonight with a double elimination! Aaron and Missy were voted off after the survivors were put into 2 teams and the winner of each got immunity and the 2 groups went to separate TC's. Everyone expected Karishma and Janet to be voted out. I think it is fair to say Aaron, Missy and Elizabeth expected Karishma and Janet to be voted out, but really every other person was in on the votes weren't they? I loved the way this episode went down and Elaine has redeemed herself a bit IMHO. I love that no one is sitting back this season. I meant that before everything shook out and the immunity competition that the consensus seemed to be Karishma and Janet. But I could be wrong. Noura sure acted like Karishma was her choice.
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Post by cme37 on Nov 21, 2019 15:24:22 GMT
I was very happy with last night's evictions. I was a little confused by why elaine took credit for Missy's eviction. I thought it was Karishma who told them that Missy was targeting Tommy. If Karishma had not told them, they would not have known at all. And then when Tommy said to Missy, "you come for me, I come for you" (something like that) and she shot back she wasn't coming for him. She just voted for him!!! I'm really glad she is gone. Also I read this article of an interview that Jamal did about last week's episode. It makes more sense to me now that people didn't really know the whole story. He said that he believed when they had the group meeting with production that Dan probably didn't connect the dots that they were talking about him. The show made it look like they explicitly told Dan to knock it off, but in reality I think it was a more general conversation of respect people's boundaries without calling anyone out. I still think Missy and Elisabeth knew exactly what they were doing, but Aaron might have been out of the loop a bit so I will give him a slight pass on it. I'm still glad he was voted out last night.
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Post by cadoodlebug on Nov 21, 2019 16:47:37 GMT
I was very happy with last night's evictions. I was a little confused by why elaine took credit for Missy's eviction. I thought it was Karishma who told them that Missy was targeting Tommy. If Karishma had not told them, they would not have known at all. And then when Tommy said to Missy, "you come for me, I come for you" (something like that) and she shot back she wasn't coming for him. She just voted for him!!! I'm really glad she is gone. Also I read this article of an interview that Jamal did about last week's episode. It makes more sense to me now that people didn't really know the whole story. He said that he believed when they had the group meeting with production that Dan probably didn't connect the dots that they were talking about him. The show made it look like they explicitly told Dan to knock it off, but in reality I think it was a more general conversation of respect people's boundaries without calling anyone out. I still think Missy and Elisabeth knew exactly what they were doing, but Aaron might have been out of the loop a bit so I will give him a slight pass on it. I'm still glad he was voted out last night. Nope, this is a direct quote from Jeff Probst: When we met privately with Dan, we told him that his actions were making some of the women uncomfortable and reminded him that personal boundaries must be respected at all times. We also informed him this was an official warning.
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Post by cme37 on Nov 21, 2019 17:28:32 GMT
I was very happy with last night's evictions. I was a little confused by why elaine took credit for Missy's eviction. I thought it was Karishma who told them that Missy was targeting Tommy. If Karishma had not told them, they would not have known at all. And then when Tommy said to Missy, "you come for me, I come for you" (something like that) and she shot back she wasn't coming for him. She just voted for him!!! I'm really glad she is gone. Also I read this article of an interview that Jamal did about last week's episode. It makes more sense to me now that people didn't really know the whole story. He said that he believed when they had the group meeting with production that Dan probably didn't connect the dots that they were talking about him. The show made it look like they explicitly told Dan to knock it off, but in reality I think it was a more general conversation of respect people's boundaries without calling anyone out. I still think Missy and Elisabeth knew exactly what they were doing, but Aaron might have been out of the loop a bit so I will give him a slight pass on it. I'm still glad he was voted out last night. Nope, this is a direct quote from Jeff Probst: When we met privately with Dan, we told him that his actions were making some of the women uncomfortable and reminded him that personal boundaries must be respected at all times. We also informed him this was an official warning. I was just going by what Jamal said in the article. I think the whole thing was handled badly. If they did really meet privately with Dan, he should have been kicked off. And then this week they didn't even talk about it again. Like it never happened.
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Post by cadoodlebug on Nov 21, 2019 17:37:32 GMT
Nope, this is a direct quote from Jeff Probst: When we met privately with Dan, we told him that his actions were making some of the women uncomfortable and reminded him that personal boundaries must be respected at all times. We also informed him this was an official warning. I was just going by what Jamal said in the article. I think the whole thing was handled badly. If they did really meet privately with Dan, he should have been kicked off. And then this week they didn't even talk about it again. Like it never happened. Here is the entire interview with Probst. It may have been handled badly but it was the first time something like this had occurred so there was no precedent on what should happen. I don't think Kellee wanted him to be kicked off, she just wanted him to stop making her uncomfortable. It will be interesting to see what is said at the reunion. Jeff's interview with Dalton Ross
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Post by cindyupnorth on Nov 21, 2019 18:24:40 GMT
As they have been voting off all these athletic players this yr, I'm thinking. woah!! challenges are going to be a bust! People will be out in 20 sec's. Not very exciting.
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zella
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,884
Jul 7, 2014 19:36:30 GMT
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Post by zella on Nov 21, 2019 19:22:53 GMT
So I am a HUGE survivor fan. I'm on a FB Survivor group, I'm in a fantasy league, I've seen every episode of every season.
And I have to say that I found it difficult to watch last night. I am so utterly disgusted with the crap that went down last week that this season has been utterly spoiled for me. I am VERY glad Missy was voted off; partly because she deserved it because of last week, partly because of what we saw of her behavior this week. I believe it was Tommy who said that Karishma had been bullied (not just Karishma herself saying that); gee, I wonder who was the bully? But we're left with Elizabeth and creepy Dan. I CANNOT get past my feeling that at the very least Dan is an utter creep. His touchy-feely behavior began within the first couple of days. He shouldn't be getting a warning, he should be gone. And I don't understand Janet making up with him. I presume she hasn't seen any of his offensive behavior? I'm having a hard time wanting anyone to win at this point.
BTW there was a sort of precedent, which was the Richard Hatch/Sue Hawk incident in the All Stars season. IMO this was handled terribly by production. Richard should never have been allowed to participate in a challenge naked when they KNEW there would be physical contact. I mean, come on! Yeah, this was prior to the whole MeToo movement, but common sense and decency should have prevailed. I don't have a problem with nudity at all, but when you are naked and rub your body against someone else, that I have a problem with. I hoped the production team would have learned, but they really haven't. Dan should have been pulled from the game and the decision of whether to remove him should NEVER have been on one of the other contestants. I'm just so disappointed.
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AmandaA
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,502
Aug 28, 2015 22:31:17 GMT
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Post by AmandaA on Nov 21, 2019 19:33:52 GMT
DH and I were both so pissed after last week, that we didn’t want to watch the rest of this season. But we watched last night for lack of anything better to do. I feel like karma bit Missy square in the ass where she deserved it. I enjoyed the twists last night, and while I still have some strong feelings about players still in the game I am sticking around to cheer for Janet now.
And I really wish they would have called medical in for Karishma after she played sick when looking for the idol. I would have loved to see her whisper to them “I am fine this is my strategy” 😂.
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Post by bc2ca on Nov 21, 2019 21:27:41 GMT
As they have been voting off all these athletic players this yr, I'm thinking. woah!! challenges are going to be a bust! People will be out in 20 sec's. Not very exciting. I don't watch to see an athlete go on a II win streak. I usually hate that athleticism can be an advantage after the merge - Culpepper came to mind first. I love the mix of challenges that give a player like Elaine a chance to wear the necklace.
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Country Ham
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,313
Jun 25, 2014 19:32:08 GMT
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Post by Country Ham on Nov 21, 2019 21:28:49 GMT
I was just going by what Jamal said in the article. I think the whole thing was handled badly. If they did really meet privately with Dan, he should have been kicked off. And then this week they didn't even talk about it again. Like it never happened. I believe it was originally blown out of proportion and then social media had a field day with exaggerations and accusations etc. In the game they know what happened, we don't. We see the edited version of events. These people live together in close quarters and sleep huddled up for body heat. I too am curious how this will play out during the reunion show. I might be eating my own words. and seriously... I agree with Jeff regarding the events of last nights tribal council, do you point something out and risk offending someone, or say nothing and risk offending someone.
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zella
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,884
Jul 7, 2014 19:36:30 GMT
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Post by zella on Nov 21, 2019 21:52:22 GMT
Country Ham, I have to disagree; there's a huge difference between snuggling up to someone for warmth and playing with their hair, touching their face, putting your hand on their hip, rubbing their back etc, all of which were the kind of things Dan was doing. There's video, it's not like it's just people saying it.
Speaking of Culpepper, he's a Personal Injury Attorney in Tampa Bay, and since we moved here I've seen multiple billboards with his face on it. Of course I was like "OMG, that's Brad Culpepper; he was on Survivor!" LOL
Also agree with what Jeff said last night; I was actually very surprised Missy brought it up. They RARELY have 2 people win immunity anyway, so it wasn't something that notable IMO. Having said that I do agree that women and minorities tend to be targeted more than white males, though that hasn't particularly been the case this season.
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Post by leslie132 on Nov 21, 2019 22:47:29 GMT
Ok...... I think the other team was brilliant to get rid of Aaron. He is very much a physical threat.
Now let’s move on to Missy complaining about the term Bully. Now let’s talk about how she was telling Elizabeth to run Elaine to the ground and get her back. She acts like the Survivor Gods put her in charge of this season. Her arrogance is so off putting.
As she corrected Jeff that he should have mentioned that a woman and a minority won immunity last week, i almost wanted Jeff to chime in that the same minority and woman who had that amazing immunity, were just voted off together.
I can’t stand her attitude!!!
Can I discuss Karma..... I feel like it bit Missy in the ass. I also think that Elizabeth will feel it soon.
I watch another reality show that had a challenge. The result was who ever came in last would be eliminated automatically. The dude that went home was amazing in the challenge. The girl he had for a partner......the same girl that bullied and pressured him to vote against one of his good friends.....blew it for them. She lost the challenge for them and he went home. As he walked away he said “if only I’d kept the other girl. I’d still be here”!
PLAY SMART PEOPLE!!! You won’t make it otherwise!
ETA..... I wrote my post and then thought of it for a few hours. If what I wrote in regards to her correcting Jeff (basically telling him how to do his job in my opinion) is offensive to someone please tell me. I will gladly remove it. I have it in the context of she is a bossy “bully-ish” player......
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Post by jackie on Nov 22, 2019 4:40:17 GMT
I hated that they again didn’t have a separate reward challenge. Instead they lumped it in with immunity AND they had reward back at camp AND those looked like the least impressive PB&J sandwiches ever. I did think if they were going to have to do a double elimination, this was an awesome way to vote out two. It was great too that the group who went to tribal second got to see who the first group voted out. Watching the shock on the power players’ faces was awesome. It was too funny. When I saw lazy Karishma going out to get coconuts I was thinking, that woman better not find an idol. And if course she did. As much as I don’t care for her, it was funny to see her walking away from Missy as she tried to tell her what to do. Missy was SHOCKED she couldn’t just control Karishma. I loved Noura throwing her hoop in th air when she won immunity, completely forgetting she was supposed to keep playing on for the reward. I would have been so irritated with her. It was cute to see skinny little Tommy celebrating by lifting chubby little Elaine up. What did you guys think about what Missy said at TC—that Jeff should have brought up the two minorities winning immunity? I don’t know, I hate being insensitive, but I thought that was silly. We already have a very diverse cast this season, which is great; why do we also have to point out the victories. Now that Missy and Aaron are gone, we need Liz and Dan to shortly follow. Here are some links: Dalton’s recap (there are also links to Kelley’s and Jamal’s exit interviews here) Aaron and Missy’s Ponderosa
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Country Ham
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,313
Jun 25, 2014 19:32:08 GMT
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Post by Country Ham on Nov 22, 2019 19:06:00 GMT
it was funny to see her walking away from Missy as she tried to tell her what to do. Missy was SHOCKED she couldn’t just control Karishma. My favorite part of the whole episode
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Post by mimi3566 on Nov 22, 2019 21:04:25 GMT
it was funny to see her walking away from Missy as she tried to tell her what to do. Missy was SHOCKED she couldn’t just control Karishma. My favorite part of the whole episode Mine too....I really liked Missy for her strategic game play as she is very smart but the last 2 weeks has made me change my mind of her and I'm not liking her much at all. I think her telling Elizabeth to use the whole Dan, touch feely thing as a reason to vote him out was just wrong and the way she has treated Karishma is terrible then she calls out Jeff about how he should host the tribal council just pushed me over the edge and completely over shadowed her smart, strategic game play in my eyes that I wouldn't want to see her win anyways. I hope Dan & Elizabeth are next...I'm routing for either Elaine or Janet to win at this point. Of course that's subject to change based on upcoming episodes. All in all, I'm really liking this season.
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Post by cadoodlebug on Dec 5, 2019 5:54:15 GMT
Oh My! That was perhaps the craziest TC ever in the history of Survivor. The 4 *outcasts* had a workable plan until Dean told Tommy ~ do you think that was his plan all along? Or was it because Noura went crazy and started spewing stuff. When the 4 of them were at the camp and she was ranting, DH and I were laughing our heads off. I was surprised that Noura wasn't voted off but happy with the results. But it was stupid to take out someone who had little to no chance of winning. I loved watching the jury and Rob and Sandra during TC. Missy pretending she was eating popcorn while everyone is running around whispering.
I always enjoy the family day and seeing the loved ones. I thought Karishma talked earlier that her marriage was arranged and she wasn't happy in her marriage. Did I mis-remember?
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Post by christine58 on Dec 5, 2019 13:28:34 GMT
I always enjoy the family day and seeing the loved ones. I thought Karishma talked earlier that her marriage was arranged and she wasn't happy in her marriage. Did I mis-remember? She did early on...I think seeing him made her change her mind?? Also I think this show "plays" with us all the time. I wish Noura had gone home. Missy pretending she was eating popcorn while everyone is running around whispering. OMG that was HYSTERICAL
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tanya2
Pearl Clutcher
Refupea #1604
Posts: 4,423
Jun 27, 2014 2:27:09 GMT
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Post by tanya2 on Dec 5, 2019 13:39:00 GMT
that vote made no sense to me at all!!! First they're convinced that the bottom 4 should band together, then Dean spills the info to Tommy right behind Elaine (and not quietly!), then Noura pulls a crazy act again - but they all still voted Karishma out??? And the bottom 4 that were in on the Tommy plan voted with the rest of the group like it was the plan all along. This is why I like the 2 hour episodes, we get to see more of the action to clear some stuff up
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