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Post by refugeepea on Sept 26, 2019 16:19:52 GMT
It depends on their level of commitment to the Democrats, Republicans, or Independents. During the last election, I stopped following people on Facebook from all of those parties. It was the CONSTANT political posts.
If they are Pro-Trump and post or say things that can easily be proven wrong, the friendship will probably not last.
I have Republican friends who do not act this way, there is a difference.
If they are Democrat and wish that all Republicans would go away and die, not going to work for me.
Another person that I unfollowed posted if you don't agree with me on this election then we can no longer be friends. Ok! Unfollow.
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Post by Merge on Sept 26, 2019 16:21:42 GMT
I think the problem is everyone is trying to make this into a moral decision. Politics is about more than one or two or ten issues. And I’m sure there will be a lot of responses saying it is a moral decision and I think that proves my point. I live in a blue neighborhood in a red state. I don’t typically talk politics with friends, but it is brought up by others. I can be friends with people who believe differently from me. For as many people say if you’re A you must believe B therefore we can’t be friends. I find that mindset sad. In 2019 it is a moral decision. Sorry not sorry. And the only point that proves is that Trumpism has destroyed the Republican Party to the point that decent people should not be associated with it in its current form. For way more than one or two or ten reasons.
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The Great Carpezio
Pearl Clutcher
Something profound goes here.
Posts: 2,930
Jun 25, 2014 21:50:33 GMT
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Post by The Great Carpezio on Sept 26, 2019 16:21:42 GMT
Political differences? Yes
Polarizing political differences? It depends on the people involved, but I would say it is hard to maintain an authentic relationship with anyone who sees the world from a diametrically opposed POV. I think you can maintain a superficial "friendly" relationship if you choose to be civil with each other or at least one person chooses to be silent. That isn't authentic. One or both of you have to silence part of who you are and what you believe; you have to compartmentalize your life.
I have done this with everyone I know who champions Trump. I can still be friendly with them. Sometimes it kills me inside. Some of the quieter ones, I have an easier time with. I stay silent most of the time, and if I do engage, I don't go low, but I cannot have a real relationship with someone who condones, actively supports him or dehumanizes large groups of people with their language/memes/money. A conservative/Libertarian who thinks Trump is an awful leader and dislikes most of what he stands for? Yep, we can talk truth, and I can be friends with them.
I do think there may be some people who can violently disagree and still maintain a friendship, but it has to be authentic and equal and both have to have thick skin and probably a strong history and a self- depreciating sense of humor. I think it is very rare since I rarely see Trump supporters who have a sense of humor about anything they believe. They only seem to be able to make fun of liberals. A lot of liberals are the same way, but I have to say, liberals tend to be better at laughing at themselves and seeing their own flaws and creating satire that pokes fun at themselves (but again, the more extremely liberal, the less likely one seems to be able to laugh at themselves. I think it is a problem for extremists. They lack the ability to look inward and discern sublty)
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Post by hop2 on Sept 26, 2019 16:22:05 GMT
I’m my experience, a friendship can survive alternate politics pretty well, and even include political discussion.
What kills a relationship is not politics or different view, it is willful ignorance, stupidity, closed mindedness no matter which side of the spectrum your coming from. The inability to separate what you believe you should do from what you believe should be legislated for all to do is also a problem. And lastly the need to own or top anyone not like you is also a problem. All of the things I mentioned exist on both sides of the spectrum and are not solely one party’s problem
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Post by Merge on Sept 26, 2019 16:25:26 GMT
I think it's heeeeeelarious that the same folks who have been all, oh, we don't have anything against gay people, we just don't want our kids to be around them or hear anything about them in school, and oh, we have nothing against black people, we just want our kids to be in the whitest school possible, are suddenly offended when some people don't want to hang around with them, either. Reap what you sow, folks. Reap what you sow.
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Post by femalebusiness on Sept 26, 2019 16:29:20 GMT
I can absolutely associate with someone who is conservative or until recently a republican. I could never have anything to do socially with anyone who supports trump. I am now at the point where I seriously question the loyalty to the country of anyone supporting the republican party. I've seen enough politics in my life to know how dangerous supporting trump and his sycophants is. My country is very dear to me and I will never understand nor have any respect for those who would put party loyalty over country.
So at this point, no. I cannot and will not be associated with trumpers. Luckily I live in a liberal state and very few people around me are foolish enough not to understand what is going on with this administration.
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Post by busy on Sept 26, 2019 16:30:06 GMT
I think the problem is everyone is trying to make this into a moral decision. Politics is about more than one or two or ten issues. And I’m sure there will be a lot of responses saying it is a moral decision and I think that proves my point. I live in a blue neighborhood in a red state. I don’t typically talk politics with friends, but it is brought up by others. I can be friends with people who believe differently from me. For as many people say if you’re A you must believe B therefore we can’t be friends. I find that mindset sad. Like I said in my post, there are some - even many - issues where disagreeing is just fine. But if (general) you believe in legislating against equal rights for everyone, we have a fundamental difference in values and that 100% is a moral decision. I don't care why you think trans people shouldn't have equal protection under law, for example. It's wrong. Period. End of story.
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Post by refugeepea on Sept 26, 2019 16:30:35 GMT
In 2019 it is a moral decision. Sorry not sorry. And the only point that proves is that Trumpism has destroyed the Republican Party to the point that decent people should not be associated with it in its current form. For way more than one or two or ten reasons. On a national level, I understand. On a local level, no. I refuse to stop researching, stop being informed and vote straight D on any ticket. That is how Trump got elected. He's not a Democrat! He's not Hillary! I voted close to all Democrat in my most recent elections, but one of the candidates had a higher approval rating with the NRA.
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Post by gar on Sept 26, 2019 16:36:01 GMT
It would be a shame indeed to ruin a relationship over a difference in tax code or most foreign policy, but I don't see any reason to continue having relationships with people who think that women, gay people and people of color should not have full and equal rights with straight, white men. Or who think that they are better than someone who struggles, or better than a brown person from south of our border because they had the good fortune to be born in the US. Those are not political differences. They are character differences. That's what I was trying to say
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Post by Merge on Sept 26, 2019 16:40:31 GMT
In 2019 it is a moral decision. Sorry not sorry. And the only point that proves is that Trumpism has destroyed the Republican Party to the point that decent people should not be associated with it in its current form. For way more than one or two or ten reasons. On a national level, I understand. On a local level, no. I refuse to stop researching, stop being informed and vote straight D on any ticket. That is how Trump got elected. He's not a Democrat! He's not Hillary! I voted close to all Democrat in my most recent elections, but one of the candidates had a higher approval rating with the NRA. Absolutely. There are Republicans here in TX who are good, principled leaders and I can’t fault anyone for voting for them, even if I might have preferred someone more progressive. On the national stage, however, if you’re supporting Trump or his supporters in Congress, then we have a fundamental disagreement about way too many really important things. I apologize that I didn’t specify the national party.
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Post by workingclassdog on Sept 26, 2019 16:46:14 GMT
My BFF and I have been friends since 1986. She is definitely in the Trump camp and so is most of the family (I am actually married into her family). I'm pretty much the middle of the road. Can't stand Trump though. But I am not on the other side either. She doesn't say too much about politics except mostly reposting stuff on FB. She doesn't research anything either. I am sure I make her eyes roll when I tell her that her story is fake.
But as friends we don't talk politics. We have sooooooooooo much more to talk about than that. Neither of us are 'political' so it just doesn't come up on a regular basis. If something is said, I let her have her opinion and she lets me have mine.. no biggie.. 33 years and still going strong.
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caro
Drama Llama
Refupea 1130
Posts: 5,222
Jun 26, 2014 14:10:36 GMT
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Post by caro on Sept 26, 2019 17:27:55 GMT
I think you need to not look down on your friend based on how they vote It's not how they vote, it's the values they hold to enable their vote. I must have missed this statement paigepea. I, in no way, look down on her or her right to vote differently than me. That’s democracy at its finest. I want to remain her friend and I hope we can. I want to present a side that she has not thought about because of her conservative views. Not to change her mind but to get her to think outside the box. And she probably wants me to think inside her box.
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Post by FuzzyMutt on Sept 26, 2019 17:40:50 GMT
I have no problem being friends with someone with whom I disagree politically.
What makes me wonder why I bother is people I barely know who are fanatics and don't seem to understand the difference between fact and opinion. It's still an opinion no matter how loud and sealed the echo chamber.
The people I surround myself by choice (friends) are good people. Regardless of their politics. My world and circle is big enough that I do realize that there aren't only 3 different kinds of people in the world. It's crazy, but true. I have gay friends that vote conservative tickets, Jewish friends that have no problem if you say Merry Christmas and appreciate when you ask about aspects of their religion. I could go on and on.
For me, if I feel the person is worth being friends with, if we can acknowledge a difference, discuss it with kindness rather than hate, I can be your friend. There is only one insanely political person in my life that escalates every conversation that touches politics to an argument, and my love for her is greater than any of what I view as her foolishness, so I usually cut the conversation with her with a simple "we're going to have to disagree on that" and a redirect, and it's fine. I also avoid her on days the Peas are whipped into a froth.
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Post by kernriver on Sept 26, 2019 17:43:46 GMT
My neighbor is pro-Trump AND an anti-vaxxer! I just avoid her. I’m pleasant but aloof.
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Post by papersilly on Sept 26, 2019 17:56:53 GMT
i am sad to say there is a particular friendship that i have neglected because of our opposing views. i've known this person for 25 years and yet the most recent presidential election really put a strain on what we can and cannot talk about.
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Post by disneypal on Sept 26, 2019 18:15:24 GMT
Anyone have ave a friend so radically different politically and survived? How? Yes - one of my dearest friends is a HUGE Trump supporter, I am not. We both know our political views are very different so we just decided that we would agree to disagree and we rarely discuss it - if it does get brought up, in a group setting for example, we will discuss our own viewpoints but won't argue or criticize the other's. We are both mature enough to know that even though we will never see eye to eye when it comes to Trump, that it is not worth ruining our 15 year long friendship over.
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Post by tentoes on Sept 26, 2019 19:14:26 GMT
Of course you can if you are each respectful and non-bullying. I am a conservative, my daughter-in-law is very liberal as is one of my favorite brothers-in-law. I love them both to distraction and they love me back. And Yes, we DO discuss politics. My neighbor (until she sold her house recently) was a strong liberal in a very conservative neighborhood. But she was well-liked because she was courteous in her views and the conservatives were courteous back. There is so much more in this world than politics to build a friendship on.The bolded part is so true! I can go a whole day or even a week without mentioning anything political! Everything doesn't have to be divisive or political. I have friends that are republicans and friends that are democrats. And yes, we can talk to each other face to face without rage or hatred.
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Post by mustlovecats on Sept 26, 2019 19:23:17 GMT
My deep struggle honestly, is when a friend accepts the racist and anti woman and anti LGBT agenda of the current admin. For me it is difficult to maintain close relationships that run counter to my values. Some conservative friends manage to be conservative without embracing the moral failure of the Republican Party however, and I find that very different.
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Post by chances on Sept 26, 2019 19:33:34 GMT
I find it smug to say that agreeing to diagree is about "maturity". It sounds more like just ignoring what doesnt affect them. Politics is about people and power. "Politics" is being used as a euphemism for racism, sexism, authoritarianism and that's not okay with me.
I dont have friends who can support an administration that cages children and argues they don't deserve soap or toothpaste (among many other things).
If that's maturity then fuck it.
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DEX
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,355
Aug 9, 2014 23:13:22 GMT
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Post by DEX on Sept 26, 2019 20:06:12 GMT
This is a topic that breaks my heart. I have a best friend. We have been so, so close for almost 50 years. Our friendship has never been about discussing politics, more about talking, doing things together, and supporting each other through the happiness and sadness of life. In 2016, she made it very clear she supported Trump. This was something new, because, as I said, we had never talked about politics. There were too many other interesting things to talk about and do. I made the conscious decision that I would not let 40+ years of friendship be endangered by a political office that would last 8 years at most. She made an older friend who is wealthy and conservative. I got along great with her, too, when I met her. The more, the merrier! We all went to the beach with a group of women. I walked into the room where friend and her friend were talking and she pointed to me and said, “She’s a Hillary lover. She doesn’t like our Trump.” Anyhow, after that trip, things started fading away. Four of us from the old days used to go out to dinner once a month. The other two women are more politically liberal and BFF has cold-shouldered them, too. I tried to keep in touch for almost a year, but she stopped communicating. She owns a business, and for years I’ve worked for free for her from time to time, just to have fun and spend time together. It really makes me sad. I have thought and thought, trying to figure out if I did anything, but can’t think of what it could have been. It has felt sort of like a bad divorce. Sorry to run on, but this has been very sad for me. My friendship of 30 years ended similarly. I actually went to see a therapist to help me through the break up. I just got tired of being bullied, talked over, interrupted and spoken to in a harsh manner.
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Post by elaine on Sept 26, 2019 20:11:00 GMT
Yes, I can be friends with conservatives and I’m married to one. An ardent Trump supporter, however, has a fundamental difference in worldview that would make a real friendship between us very unlikely. This. Although W Bush’s administration was enough to push Dh to become a conservative Democrat, rather than a Republican. And he voted for him the first time (vs. Gore). He is still more conservative than I am on many issues, but was there beside me at the 2017 Women’s March. I have no problem with people holding many conservative views that differ from mine. Trump supporters are a different ball of wax, to me, because to support Trump’s administration is to support racism, sexism, White Supremacy, anti-science, selling the welfare of our country to Russia and the Ukraine for the benefit of the GOP, approving blatant lying multiple times per day by the President, spitting on the immigrant and free press foundations our country was built on and took pride in, among many other things. I had a number of friends from a social club I belong to who voted for Trump. They were the ones who reposted the Russian bot planted Facebook stories. We had a tense few months at our weekly Thursday lunch after inauguration until our summer break - we agreed to stay off of politics at our lunches. When we came back in the Fall of his first year in office, things had changed and not one person in this group who voted for Trump still supports him. We occasionally talk politics again now, one of many topics at today’s lunch included disgust at soliciting Ukraine’s interference in our election, then we moved on to talking about Dancing with the Stars and speculating whether the couple at the table near us were having an affair (the were in their late 40’s and clearly needed a bedroom somewhere, rather than making out in a brewpub). 😆 They are still card carrying Republicans, but they are just as disgusted to what Trump is doing to our country as my Democrat friends. Being a Trump supporter and being a conservative or a Republican are two/three very different things.
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Post by Merge on Sept 26, 2019 20:17:13 GMT
I find it smug to say that agreeing to diagree is about "maturity". It sounds more like just ignoring what doesnt affect them. Politics is about people and power. "Politics" is being used as a euphemism for racism, sexism, authoritarianism and that's not okay with me. I dont have friends who can support an administration that cages children and argues they don't deserve soap or toothpaste (among many other things). If that's maturity than fuck it. It's privilege, plain and simple. I had a good friend who happens to be gay explain this to me very clearly - at the time (13 years ago), I mentioned that I didn't really follow politics and considered myself apolitical. I'd grown disenchanted with the conservative ideology with which I'd been raised, but wasn't ready to swing left just yet. He told me very bluntly that he and his partner didn't have any choice - if they wanted to have equal rights with every straight human adult, they had to be political. It was a huge eye-opener for me. Being apolitical is a a privilege only for those who are not oppressed by our current system, who can live and be comfortable with the status quo.
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Post by mrst on Sept 26, 2019 20:25:50 GMT
I was brought up in the uk and really politics are not discussed. I have no idea how any of my family voted ..ever! I'm quite old now and live in Spain and find the present political situation in the UK embarrassing to say the least. I find it bizzar that anyone would have anything to do with such an unkind person as Mr Trump.
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muggins
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,861
Jul 30, 2017 3:38:57 GMT
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Post by muggins on Sept 26, 2019 20:57:26 GMT
I was brought up in the uk and really politics are not discussed. I have no idea how any of my family voted ..ever! I'm quite old now and live in Spain and find the present political situation in the UK embarrassing to say the least. I find it bizzar that anyone would have anything to do with such an unkind person as Mr Trump. I imagine there’s quite a lot of discussion amongst the expats in Spain regarding their status after Brexit.
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muggins
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,861
Jul 30, 2017 3:38:57 GMT
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Post by muggins on Sept 26, 2019 20:57:39 GMT
I was brought up in the uk and really politics are not discussed. I have no idea how any of my family voted ..ever! I'm quite old now and live in Spain and find the present political situation in the UK embarrassing to say the least. I find it bizzar that anyone would have anything to do with such an unkind person as Mr Trump. I imagine there’s quite a lot of discussion amongst the expats in Spain regarding their status after Brexit.
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muggins
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,861
Jul 30, 2017 3:38:57 GMT
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Post by muggins on Sept 26, 2019 20:59:40 GMT
I can associate with Republicans, but I’ve distanced myself from Trump supporters. Fortunately there are none in my family so I don’t have that problem.
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Post by ladytrisha on Sept 26, 2019 21:01:38 GMT
Sadly, nope. I walked away after election day. We had been friends 40 years.
It wasn't just pro-orange, it was anti-Mexican everything. And she'd whisper "but the Mexicans get this"... all Fox sound bites. Her kids deserved free college, not those people. Every single time we got together. Day after election day I realized I couldn't do it anymore. We've touched base on FB one time when a mutual friend passed away (though to be honest that was awkward AF because she had bragged about sleeping with the husband years ago).
My hubby asked what took me so long to walk away. I guess I can thank the orange.
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Post by gritzi on Sept 26, 2019 21:07:46 GMT
There should be a lot more positives that you admire about the friend vs despising whom she chooses to vote for & support. If you're willing to walk away from friendship due to a political difference then the friendship isn't treasured, imo. If you're continually arguing politics then that's another issue. If there's mutual respect to accept the other's viewpoints and willingness to not debate I don't see why you can't appreciate the other values that you see in her. You like candidate A, she likes candidate B. So what?
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Post by cmpeter on Sept 26, 2019 21:15:22 GMT
I can be and am friends with Republicans. I can’t be friends with pro-Trumpers...for all the reasons stated above.
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Post by elaine on Sept 26, 2019 21:17:56 GMT
There should be a lot more positives that you admire about the friend vs despising whom she chooses to vote for & support. If you're willing to walk away from friendship due to a political difference then the friendship isn't treasured, imo. If you're continually arguing politics then that's another issue. If there's mutual respect to accept the other's viewpoints and willingness to not debate I don't see why you can't appreciate the other values that you see in her. You like candidate A, she likes candidate B. So what? What if you are the parent of a trans child, for example? And candidate A is against having trans individuals serve in the military and wants to legislate against trans individuals in general. Or you are married to someone who immigrated from Mexico and your children are bi-racial and candidate A makes repeated public statements about Mexicans all being drug dealers and gang members and encourages negative stereotypes regarding your husband and your bi-racial children? Or you are a sexual assault survivor and having Candidate A publicly make statements about grabbing women by the pussy and how sexually attractive he finds his daughter is a trigger for you? And Candidate A repeatedly makes statements about how many women make up accusations of sexual assault about men? It only doesn’t matter to you if you live in an isolated vacuum and/or don’t care about the people negatively impacted by Candidate A, even if it is your own children.
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