scrapngranny
Pearl Clutcher
Only slightly senile
Posts: 4,763
Jun 25, 2014 23:21:30 GMT
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Post by scrapngranny on Sept 26, 2019 21:34:45 GMT
I just don’t talk politics with any of my friends who support Trump. It saves me from going crazy.
I don’t care if someone is conservative, or a Republican, I can not understand how any can find one redeeming feature about Trump. Trump is neither Republican or conservative. He is self serving using the presidency for his own benefit. I absolutely can’t believe his support him can’t see it.
It’s best to leave politics off the table.
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Sept 26, 2019 21:42:06 GMT
They are still card carrying Republicans, but they are just as disgusted to what Trump is doing to our country as my Democrat friends. Being a Trump supporter and being a conservative or a Republican are two/three very different things. So very true and many forget that!!
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Post by busy on Sept 26, 2019 22:02:04 GMT
There should be a lot more positives that you admire about the friend vs despising whom she chooses to vote for & support. If you're willing to walk away from friendship due to a political difference then the friendship isn't treasured, imo. If you're continually arguing politics then that's another issue. If there's mutual respect to accept the other's viewpoints and willingness to not debate I don't see why you can't appreciate the other values that you see in her. You like candidate A, she likes candidate B. So what? It's not always that simple. I once had a friend who was quite religious. I am not, but I have plenty of friends who are. No big deal. I knew that her religion believes homosexuality is a sin. She knew my brother was gay. We didn't talk about it and it was fine. It was her personal religious belief and while I completely disagreed with it, it wasn't a dealbreaker. UNTIL she started getting involved anti-gay marriage campaigns. That was the end of our friendship. You can believe whatever you like. But if you are out there actively trying to prevent some groups of people from having equal rights or take their rights away... no. That is a dealbreaker. It was sad, because I did like her tremendously. But I couldn't stay friends with someone who would take action like that any more than I could stay friends with someone who broke into people's homes and stole from them. (And if you think that's an unfair comparison, ask yourself why you value things more than rights? Perhaps because you've never had any of your personal rights at risk so can't even imagine what that would be like?) There are SOME political positions that I find inherently immoral and if someone holds that position, our core values are too far apart to be friends.
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caro
Drama Llama
Refupea 1130
Posts: 5,222
Jun 26, 2014 14:10:36 GMT
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Post by caro on Sept 26, 2019 22:48:00 GMT
My friend in my OP stated on FB that Trump was King David and Democrats were the Goliath’s of the world and she hoped he would slay them all. She said a good bit more about how she supported everything he did. It was so offensive to me but I asked myself if it was worth it to respond to her on FB. I decided not to respond. I may say something later or not. I don’t know if it is worth my mental state to talk about it with her.
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Post by elaine on Sept 26, 2019 22:52:38 GMT
My friend in my OP stated on FB that Trump was King David and Democrats were the Goliath’s of the world and she hoped he would slay them all. She said a good bit more about how she supported everything he did. It was so offensive to me but I asked myself if it was worth it to respond to her on FB. I decided not to respond. I may say something later or not. I don’t know if it is worth my mental state to talk about it with her. It is only something you can decide, but in that case, I’d just step away from the friendship without saying anything. You aren’t going to change her mind. If/when she notices you haven’t communicated with her/are distancing yourself and asks why - if she cares enough to - you could have the discussion then. I can pretty much guarantee if you respond to her FB post, without her asking for your input, she will become defensive as heck and not listen to a word you say.
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Post by teach4u on Sept 26, 2019 23:37:44 GMT
Yes. My good friend and I don't see eye to eye at all. We are great friends. We talk kids, baking, books, our lives.
There's much more to a person than political beliefs and if someone assumes people can't be decent because of xyz the issue lies with them.
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Post by 950nancy on Sept 26, 2019 23:48:35 GMT
Yes, so far we have done a pretty good job.
My friend is really very kind and compassionate, so I see her as one of the good guys who lives with a very right-winged man. He has 100's of guns and thinks all Democrats are out to get him. She loves him and I think has listened to his opinions and conspiracy theories for so long that it has rubbed off on her.
We were supposed to go to the Scrapbook Expo tomorrow (an hour away), but she cancelled on me. I don't know why. Didn't ask. I'll happily go by myself, but we would have had an interesting conversation due to the recent events with Trump.
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Post by pierkiss on Sept 26, 2019 23:59:05 GMT
I avoid politics with my trump loving friends and family. Avoidance works just fine with us.
Now if I were constantly discussing politics with those people, no, I wouldn’t be able to maintain a relationship. Because eventually gentle sparring over beliefs is going to devolve into fighting. It always comes to fighting with Trump.
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buggirl47
Full Member
Posts: 181
Apr 7, 2015 21:54:54 GMT
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Post by buggirl47 on Sept 27, 2019 0:33:21 GMT
I don’t get it. So if people don’t agree on one area they can’t be friends wow. What about religion. Parenting. I mean if you disagree in one area and can’t be friends how do you have any friends. Tolerance is so not acceptable by people anymore. What about respecting the other person enough to agree to disagree.
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buggirl47
Full Member
Posts: 181
Apr 7, 2015 21:54:54 GMT
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Post by buggirl47 on Sept 27, 2019 0:36:28 GMT
I am a trump supporter so I guess I wouldn’t be anyone’s friend. Lol. I actually hate all politicians at this point. They all lie and have zero integrity. Funny how everything was Obama’s fault and now it is Trump. I meN the sky is cloudy today. Obama’s fault. It rained today. Trumps fault. Lol
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Post by Merge on Sept 27, 2019 0:40:14 GMT
I don’t get it. So if people don’t agree on one area they can’t be friends wow. What about religion. Parenting. I mean if you disagree in one area and can’t be friends how do you have any friends. Tolerance is so not acceptable by people anymore. What about respecting the other person enough to agree to disagree. As stated above, if the one area is that you’re a racist, misogynist and/or homophobe, and confirm this by voting for those who are or supporting policies that are, then no, we can’t be friends. To use your examples, could you be friends with someone whose religious beliefs were morally repugnant to you? Like they sacrifice babies or something? Could you be friends with someone who thought it was ok to beat their kids bloody? Of course not. We all have a moral line, and mine happens to fall on this side of treating other human beings as inferior - as the Trump administration does. If we disagree on the best way to stimulate the economy or the best path to peace in the Middle East, then sure. Agree to disagree.
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Post by MsChiff on Sept 27, 2019 0:45:31 GMT
It's not how they vote, it's the values they hold to enable their vote. I must have missed this statement paigepea. I, in no way, look down on her or her right to vote differently than me. That’s democracy at its finest. I want to remain her friend and I hope we can. I want to present a side that she has not thought about because of her conservative views. Not to change her mind but to get her to think outside the box. And she probably wants me to think inside her box. So it's OK for you to express your opinions and beliefs but it's not OK for her to do the same? Are you open to her presenting a side that you haven't thought about because of your liberal views? It's interesting that you "want to get her to think outside the box" yet assume she want's you "to think inside her box" when it sounds like you want exactly what you project that she wants.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Sept 27, 2019 0:48:37 GMT
There should be a lot more positives that you admire about the friend vs despising whom she chooses to vote for & support. If you're willing to walk away from friendship due to a political difference then the friendship isn't treasured, imo. If you're continually arguing politics then that's another issue. If there's mutual respect to accept the other's viewpoints and willingness to not debate I don't see why you can't appreciate the other values that you see in her. You like candidate A, she likes candidate B. So what? What if you are the parent of a trans child, for example? And candidate A is against having trans individuals serve in the military and wants to legislate against trans individuals in general. Or you are married to someone who immigrated from Mexico and your children are bi-racial and candidate A makes repeated public statements about Mexicans all being drug dealers and gang members and encourages negative stereotypes regarding your husband and your bi-racial children? Or you are a sexual assault survivor and having Candidate A publicly make statements about grabbing women by the pussy and how sexually attractive he finds his daughter is a trigger for you? And Candidate A repeatedly makes statements about how many women make up accusations of sexual assault about men? It only doesn’t matter to you if you live in an isolated vacuum and/or don’t care about the people negatively impacted by Candidate A, even if it is your own children. This. I cannot be friends to anyone who supports trump/republicans/pence/gop who are actively trying to erase the existence of LBGTQ humans. Same goes for the current backwards treatment of abused women. (That they are not to be believed). They are Working to erase protections for women in colleges, home, everywhere. It’s sickening. And it goes again for not caring for our environment. Who in their right mind would deny science??? Physical evidence of global warming??? Nope. Not worried about having that kind of person in my life. Now with family, I’ll repeat facts if they are spouting off lies, or where their support hurts another family member. I don’t purposely engage, but I’m not silent. Oh and anyone using religion in politics as an excuse to be racist, misogynistic, hateful, or holier than thou can suck it.
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Post by busy on Sept 27, 2019 0:49:50 GMT
I don’t get it. So if people don’t agree on one area they can’t be friends wow. What about religion. Parenting. I mean if you disagree in one area and can’t be friends how do you have any friends. Tolerance is so not acceptable by people anymore. What about respecting the other person enough to agree to disagree. It doesn’t feel like you read and considered the responses here.
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Post by dewryce on Sept 27, 2019 1:12:37 GMT
I don’t get it. So if people don’t agree on one area they can’t be friends wow. What about religion. Parenting. I mean if you disagree in one area and can’t be friends how do you have any friends. Tolerance is so not acceptable by people anymore. What about respecting the other person enough to agree to disagree. This is not just about “one area” or issues like states’ rights and the budget and I think it’s disengenous to pretend it is. I will not tolerate the racism, hate, misogyny, homophobia, xenophobia and just plain lies by Trump and his administration. And I will not be friends with someone who does. How could I? I have no respect for anyone with those views and what is a friendship without respect?
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Post by dewryce on Sept 27, 2019 1:16:25 GMT
I am a trump supporter so I guess I wouldn’t be anyone’s friend. Lol. I actually hate all politicians at this point. They all lie and have zero integrity. Funny how everything was Obama’s fault and now it is Trump. I meN the sky is cloudy today. Obama’s fault. It rained today. Trumps fault. Lol I am confused as to how you can say, in the same breath, that you are a Trump supporter and have issues with politicians who lie and have zero integrity. I’m dumbfounded, actually.
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Post by lucyg on Sept 27, 2019 2:05:05 GMT
There should be a lot more positives that you admire about the friend vs despising whom she chooses to vote for & support. If you're willing to walk away from friendship due to a political difference then the friendship isn't treasured, imo. If you're continually arguing politics then that's another issue. If there's mutual respect to accept the other's viewpoints and willingness to not debate I don't see why you can't appreciate the other values that you see in her. You like candidate A, she likes candidate B. So what? Maybe because candidate B is trying to destroy democracy?
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ComplicatedLady
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,037
Location: Valley of the Sun
Jul 26, 2014 21:02:07 GMT
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Post by ComplicatedLady on Sept 27, 2019 4:22:29 GMT
There are SOME political positions that I find inherently immoral and if someone holds that position, our core values are too far apart to be friends. This. It’s not about a difference of political opinion. It’s about a difference in core values. Continuing a friendship with someone who supports white supremacy or with someone who supports violating human rights is something I couldn’t do. Luckily, I haven’t yet been put in a position where I’ve had to end a friendship—at least not yet.
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Post by lesserknownpea on Sept 27, 2019 5:48:03 GMT
I keep imagining living 160 years ago, and calling pro slavery “just a difference of opinion, nothing to lose a friendship over”. Or 1930’s Germany as you watch your Jewish neighbors persecuted and carted off.
Politics are the power behind some terrible actions. They are worth taking a stand over.
Eta: and anybody who thinks such things couldn’t happen here and now are not paying attention.
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snyder
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,956
Location: Colorado
Apr 26, 2017 6:14:47 GMT
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Post by snyder on Sept 27, 2019 6:01:35 GMT
I think a mature friendship could last. To me it is like choosing who your friends are based on their religion. Some religions I'm not in tune with, but I would not end a friendship over it unless it was a religion/cult into harming others, but I think I would maybe know that about the person before getting too deep into the relationship and choose not to develop a friendship with that person. That sounds kind of hypocritical, but in general, yes, but maybe in extreme cases no and I don't think differing political views is extreme.
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Post by dewryce on Sept 27, 2019 8:42:14 GMT
I think a mature friendship could last. To me it is like choosing who your friends are based on their religion. Some religions I'm not in tune with, but I would not end a friendship over it unless it was a religion/cult into harming others, but I think I would maybe know that about the person before getting too deep into the relationship and choose not to develop a friendship with that person. That sounds kind of hypocritical, but in general, yes, but maybe in extreme cases no and I don't think differing political views is extreme. Not to pick on you, but I keep wondering if people are reading the thread before responding. This is not about simple political differences of opinion. And people are being harmed by this administration. And I can guarantee you that the difference in views between many of us and Trump supporters is definitely extreme.
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Post by monklady123 on Sept 27, 2019 10:08:15 GMT
I think it really depends on the personalities, the shared history, and the nature of the differences in politics. There are some differences that would amount to not just political disagreements but also differences in fundamental values significant enough that I wouldn't see the point in having a relationship. We differ on tax policy and other economic issues? Fine. We differ on equal rights for everyone? Not fine. ETA: I'm liberal and so are most of my family and close friends. I live in a liberal part of the country and have my whole life, so this isn't surprising. However, I worked in banking for nearly 14 years and now work with an oil & gas client. As a result, I have *many* friends and colleagues with whom I disagree politically but we still get along well. It's worth noting almost none of them, despite being Republicans, are Trump supporters. I haven't read any more of the thread after busy's reply....but the part I bolded sums it up for me. You're a Republican? fine, because although we most likely disagree on many things you're probably still a decent person, and I know you feel the same about me. But if you are a trump-ite, or any of the slime that's crawled out from under a rock since trump came on the scene...well honestly I can't see why I would hang around with that toxicity.
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Post by giatocj on Sept 27, 2019 10:15:14 GMT
My group of friends are all from the Midwest and I am from MA...there is a big difference in our political views. We just never venture into those waters and our friendships are very, very strong. Politics is definitely not a defining factor in our relationships.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 18, 2024 7:07:01 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2019 11:03:25 GMT
I was brought up in the uk and really politics are not discussed. I have no idea how any of my family voted ..ever! I'm quite old now and live in Spain and find the present political situation in the UK embarrassing to say the least. I find it bizzar that anyone would have anything to do with such an unkind person as Mr Trump. I imagine there’s quite a lot of discussion amongst the expats in Spain regarding their status after Brexit. Most of this has already been dealt with to cover the transitional period, which there will be whether there's a deal or not. Spain has agreed to adopt the same as the UK has put in place towards EU citizens. The EU has left it to each individual member country to sort their own out. link
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 18, 2024 7:07:01 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2019 11:29:05 GMT
I don’t get it. So if people don’t agree on one area they can’t be friends wow. What about religion. Parenting. I mean if you disagree in one area and can’t be friends how do you have any friends. Tolerance is so not acceptable by people anymore. What about respecting the other person enough to agree to disagree. When someone displays openly their basic moral character and refers to a personal history of honesty, fairness, and respect for the rights of others I could be friends with them whatever side of the political fence they are on. But if they don't align with my beliefs of what is morally right and wrong, then no, I can't be their friends. We have nothing in common. I detest Trump with every fibre of my body but it's not because of republican policies it's because of the person he is. I have nothing in common with people who supported him and continue to support him and turn a blind eye to his actions.
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snyder
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,956
Location: Colorado
Apr 26, 2017 6:14:47 GMT
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Post by snyder on Sept 27, 2019 17:39:01 GMT
I think a mature friendship could last. To me it is like choosing who your friends are based on their religion. Some religions I'm not in tune with, but I would not end a friendship over it unless it was a religion/cult into harming others, but I think I would maybe know that about the person before getting too deep into the relationship and choose not to develop a friendship with that person. That sounds kind of hypocritical, but in general, yes, but maybe in extreme cases no and I don't think differing political views is extreme. Not to pick on you, but I keep wondering if people are reading the thread before responding. This is not about simple political differences of opinion. And people are being harmed by this administration. And I can guarantee you that the difference in views between many of us and Trump supporters is definitely extreme. I understand what you are saying, but I think I left out a few words. Yes, there are some extreme differing views, but I don't feel that a person's political beliefs or religious beliefs should be a factor to a relationship unless that belief contains extreme conditions, such are murdering people ie, Hitler,
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Post by mustlovecats on Sept 27, 2019 17:39:38 GMT
Not to pick on you, but I keep wondering if people are reading the thread before responding. This is not about simple political differences of opinion. And people are being harmed by this administration. And I can guarantee you that the difference in views between many of us and Trump supporters is definitely extreme. I understand what you are saying, but I think I left out a few words. Yes, there are some extreme differing views, but I don't feel that a person's political beliefs or religious beliefs should be a factor to a relationship unless that belief contains extreme conditions, such are murdering people ie, Hitler, Babies in cages is extreme to me.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 18, 2024 7:07:01 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2019 17:51:50 GMT
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 18, 2024 7:07:01 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2019 17:54:43 GMT
If there’s a modicum of respect from both sides. I respect that my friends and family have the right to their own opinions and the right to their own political world views. As long as they respect that I have the same rights, we can be friends.
I am a listener. I can listen to others without feeling attacked.
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Post by dewryce on Sept 27, 2019 18:19:41 GMT
This was discussed at the time it came to light with the current administration. I will say that I think it was a bad idea to begin with, but we should at least acknowledge the circumstances are different. When it first occurred it was due to a crazy unexpected influx of, from what I remember, unaccompanied minors and there was no plan in place to deal with that so this was a “quick throw something together fix.” Again, a bad one. In the ensuing years, from both administrations, a better plan should have been made to deal with situations like this. That being said, when the Trump administration really started using it was in a situation they purposefully created, knowing full well they didn’t have a better plan in place. They were purposefully separating children from their parents and putting them in these cages, as a political ploy to “discourage” immigrants and those seeking asylum.
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