Olan
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Post by Olan on Aug 4, 2020 17:31:56 GMT
I remember in a thread about black men being arrested in a Starbucks I shared an unpopular opinion (š) that allyship really looked more like a human shield to me than anything else. So Iām wondering whatās the consensus on what Black people really need from white allies. www.history.com/.amp/topics/abolitionist-movement/john-brown |
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Post by flanz on Aug 4, 2020 17:33:52 GMT
This may sound like a cop out, but I genuinely believe the answer is BOTH!
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Aug 4, 2020 17:34:58 GMT
This may sound like a cop out, but I genuinely believe the answer is BOTH! I meant to add both and human shield as responses but couldnāt edit  |
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schizo319
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Post by schizo319 on Aug 4, 2020 17:55:30 GMT
Both.
Also, I think we need to learn the *origins* and reasons of the disparities between our communities and acknowledge that the Black community has been systematically set up to fail - from. the. very. beginning. Maybe that fits under advocacy, but I don't think we can get anywhere until people figure that part out.
ETA: As a white person, it feels a little presumptuous for me to tell what black people need. We're in this situation largely because white people have always been the ones to decide what black people need.
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lindas
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Post by lindas on Aug 4, 2020 21:41:25 GMT
Iām going to regret this but here goes. I didnāt vote because Iām opposed to reparations and I think black people are perfectly capable of advocating for themselves.
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Post by pierogi on Aug 4, 2020 21:52:55 GMT
I would vote both, if I could.
Edit: You can vote both. (And I did.)
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Post by mrssmith on Aug 4, 2020 22:18:29 GMT
I voted both. I think Black people can advocate from themselves, it's more about us (White people) getting out of their way, if that makes sense. As in not saying we know best what to advocate for.
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luckyjune
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Post by luckyjune on Aug 4, 2020 22:29:59 GMT
I was looking for the "both" button too!
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Post by Really Red on Aug 4, 2020 22:34:50 GMT
I voted both. I think Black people can advocate from themselves, it's more about us (White people) getting out of their way, if that makes sense. As in not saying we know best what to advocate for. While I agree, I also think how powerful it is to make your statement and have people stand beside you in agreement. |
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Post by delila on Aug 5, 2020 1:29:13 GMT
As the mother of a black child now a grown man he tells me that we need compassion & kindness.
Not compassion & kindness to just black people but to all.
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ComplicatedLady
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Post by ComplicatedLady on Aug 5, 2020 6:26:10 GMT
I saw a video today of a Black man telling the story about getting pulled over by the police and for the first time ever for him, a white woman was nearby recording the police interaction.
He was saying thatās something white people can do. Stand by and be allies. I didnāt catch the whole clip because I was watching it with subtitles and no sound, but the story and the subtitles suggested standing alongside and helping people as people.
Advocacy is great but there has to be an engaged audience. Iām sure there are some people who are due reparations.
The biggest thing that Iām seeing and hearing is to walk with and be my friend. Paraphrasing an old saying here. Donāt walk in front as I may not follow. Donāt walk behind or I may get lost. Walk next to meātogether. I guess another way to say it is to not only talk the talk, but also walk the walk.
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Aug 5, 2020 19:53:43 GMT
I saw a video today of a Black man telling the story about getting pulled over by the police and for the first time ever for him, a white woman was nearby recording the police interaction. He was saying thatās something white people can do. Stand by and be allies. I didnāt catch the whole clip because I was watching it with subtitles and no sound, but the story and the subtitles suggested standing alongside and helping people as people. Advocacy is great but there has to be an engaged audience. Iām sure there are some people who are due reparations. The biggest thing that Iām seeing and hearing is to walk with and be my friend. Paraphrasing an old saying here. Donāt walk in front as I may not follow. Donāt walk behind or I may get lost. Walk next to meātogether. I guess another way to say it is to not only talk the talk, but also walk the walk. I think my idea of the human shield isnāt far from this idea. Walk in front of me though. My body isnāt safe. We have to acknowledge that. If I had a white woman advocating for me and insisting I get the same treatment she does shit would have changed for me some time ago. Imagine what would have happened if white women spoke up during slavery and said no to at least splitting up families and raping women. Slavery still went on but those things that make my stomach turn as a woman...I really canāt see how white women allowed that to go down. I think white women are again being tasked with some hard choices and every time they decide to continue enjoying the comforts of privilege. When Tamir Rice died that should have been a call to at least take a look at how black communities were being policed. When I started the threads about police brutality everyone balked/complained ask why all I brought up were issues of race. Peas even agreed that if I was mistreated by police it would be because of something I said or did and not the propensity of police to bring harm/death to black women. That was the pea response just a few years ago. š¤·š¾āāļøWhen Black people revolt it shouldnāt have come from left field. We are tired. Lay your body on the line for me in the same way my ancestors fed your ancestors. There is most definitely a debt here. The idea that black people pay taxes in counties where police departments have long standing histories of brutalizing communities is crazy to me. Blowing them up even! So while Iām certain Iām owed reparations Iād settle for white people dismantling racist systems without my help and a couple decades of not funding my own mistreatment. |
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Aug 5, 2020 19:54:54 GMT
As the mother of a black child now a grown man he tells me that we need compassion & kindness. Not compassion & kindness to just black people but to all. Terry Crewsā mom is a pea? |
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Post by smalltowngirlie on Aug 5, 2020 20:35:25 GMT
My first thought, without seeing the choices, was a friend, an ally and if they are that they have your back, will advocate for you when you cannot and always be there for you.
I highlighted when you cannot because I feel people need to learn to advocate for themselves, to build that inner strength and realize how powerful of a person you are. Now if that cannot happen for whatever reason, then a friend standing beside you, or in front of you is pretty awesome.
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Aug 22, 2020 14:08:02 GMT
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Post by peano on Aug 22, 2020 17:31:08 GMT
I saw a video today of a Black man telling the story about getting pulled over by the police and for the first time ever for him, a white woman was nearby recording the police interaction. He was saying thatās something white people can do. Stand by and be allies. I didnāt catch the whole clip because I was watching it with subtitles and no sound, but the story and the subtitles suggested standing alongside and helping people as people. Advocacy is great but there has to be an engaged audience. Iām sure there are some people who are due reparations. The biggest thing that Iām seeing and hearing is to walk with and be my friend. Paraphrasing an old saying here. Donāt walk in front as I may not follow. Donāt walk behind or I may get lost. Walk next to meātogether. I guess another way to say it is to not only talk the talk, but also walk the walk. I think my idea of the human shield isnāt far from this idea. Walk in front of me though. My body isnāt safe. We have to acknowledge that. If I had a white woman advocating for me and insisting I get the same treatment she does shit would have changed for me some time ago. Imagine what would have happened if white women spoke up during slavery and said no to at least splitting up families and raping women. Slavery still went on but those things that make my stomach turn as a woman...I really canāt see how white women allowed that to go down. I think white women are again being tasked with some hard choices and every time they decide to continue enjoying the comforts of privilege. When Tamir Rice died that should have been a call to at least take a look at how black communities were being policed. When I started the threads about police brutality everyone balked/complained ask why all I brought up were issues of race. Peas even agreed that if I was mistreated by police it would be because of something I said or did and not the propensity of police to bring harm/death to black women. That was the pea response just a few years ago. š¤·š¾āāļøWhen Black people revolt it shouldnāt have come from left field. We are tired. Lay your body on the line for me in the same way my ancestors fed your ancestors. There is most definitely a debt here. The idea that black people pay taxes in counties where police departments have long standing histories of brutalizing communities is crazy to me. Blowing them up even! So while Iām certain Iām owed reparations Iād settle for white people dismantling racist systems without my help and a couple decades of not funding my own mistreatment. In response to your passage that I bolded for emphasis, what would have happened is that white women would have been punished in any number of āniceā, creative ways as they literally had no more legal rights than Black people at that time. They were more socially accepted, yes, obviously, but legally they were at the mercy of their husbands and fathers and dependent upon their goodwill. They were their husband's property and subject to their rules. Standing up to men at that time might have resulted in their medication into submission, threats to separate them/actually separate them from their children, physical violence, institutionalization, among others. Not exactly the breeding ground for social justice action. |
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Aug 22, 2020 22:03:59 GMT
I think my idea of the human shield isnāt far from this idea. Walk in front of me though. My body isnāt safe. We have to acknowledge that. If I had a white woman advocating for me and insisting I get the same treatment she does shit would have changed for me some time ago. Imagine what would have happened if white women spoke up during slavery and said no to at least splitting up families and raping women. Slavery still went on but those things that make my stomach turn as a woman...I really canāt see how white women allowed that to go down. I think white women are again being tasked with some hard choices and every time they decide to continue enjoying the comforts of privilege. When Tamir Rice died that should have been a call to at least take a look at how black communities were being policed. When I started the threads about police brutality everyone balked/complained ask why all I brought up were issues of race. Peas even agreed that if I was mistreated by police it would be because of something I said or did and not the propensity of police to bring harm/death to black women. That was the pea response just a few years ago. š¤·š¾āāļøWhen Black people revolt it shouldnāt have come from left field. We are tired. Lay your body on the line for me in the same way my ancestors fed your ancestors. There is most definitely a debt here. The idea that black people pay taxes in counties where police departments have long standing histories of brutalizing communities is crazy to me. Blowing them up even! So while Iām certain Iām owed reparations Iād settle for white people dismantling racist systems without my help and a couple decades of not funding my own mistreatment. In response to your passage that I bolded for emphasis, what would have happened is that white women would have been punished in any number of āniceā, creative ways as they literally had no more legal rights than Black people at that time. They were more socially accepted,Ā yes, obviously, but legally they were at the mercy of their husbands and fathers and dependent upon their goodwill. They were their husband's property and subject to their rules. Standing up to men at that time might have resulted in their medication into submission, threats to separate them/actually separate them from their children, physical violence, institutionalization, among others. Not exactly the breeding ground for social justice action.Ā Never seems to be š¤·š¾āāļø Note: Revisionist history and the unwillingness to confront Americaās past. Also the boldness in which the falsehoods are shared š Mothers of Mass Resistance would be an eye opening read. Elizabeth McRae is the author. |
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Post by peano on Aug 22, 2020 22:12:39 GMT
Well, I think there is more of a possibility now than there was back then. I guess I have hope and faith that other women like myself have been and will be galvanized into action by the glaring injustices in our society.
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Post by tryingtobewise on Aug 22, 2020 22:44:46 GMT
Both for sure.
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Aug 22, 2020 23:30:24 GMT
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Aug 23, 2020 0:08:00 GMT
Another thought: I believe the other thing Black people need from white people is ownership. Ownership of what happened. White women were not powerless in the way peano described. Not by a long shot. This isnāt my opinion either. I feel like people will argue me down as if a historian hasnāt already uncovered the truth. And wrote about it. And do you see how the false narrative of powerlessness keeps us in the same cycle. Itās difficult to acknowledge the role white women played because IMHO (see?) that isnāt the nature of women. Most women are nurturing caretaker types which makes a white women raping enslaved African men, and allowing their husbands to rape other women hard to believe. Letās just say they basically had no rights so we donāt deal with it. š Weāve examined what racism did/does to black people but what has it done to white people to have perpetrated it. Again I just canāt fathom how another woman saw that type of thing go down and did nothing. I think we need to figure that out before we claim 2020 is the social justice hour Black people have been waiting on. 2018 peano response: I haven't watched a full video because I think watching the videos of black men being killed on dash cam or arrested for simply existing is a way of conditioning us to accept this treatment. I know people complain because it seems I am always screaming "do more" when really black Americans are actually saying do something, anything. No one has time for ineffectiveness when it's life or death. Actionable change. Also stop calling the police. How many of you will join black Americans in boycotting Starbucks? WTF?!!! That is the most ridiculous argument for not watching a video which literally shows a white man standing up for the two black men. You are not doing your mission any favors. How are we supposed to take what you say seriously when you refuse consider any possibilities beyond your own agenda. I respect reality; rhetoric not so much.Ā
Just so I'm on the record, I have done what those two men have done a gazillion times--used the bathroom at Starbucks before ordering, waiting on the person I'm meeting before ordering, sitting at a table before ordering. The Starbucks employee who called the police was totally, utterly, completely at fault and that was inexcusable to do to patrons who were just sitting there.āI respect reality; rhetoric not so much.ā Full thread: 2peasrefugees.boards.net/thread/77186/passing-buckIām committed to helping peas stand by the words they type. What was my agenda? How did my agenda and peano differ? Empathetic and compassionate responses would have cost nothing š¤·š¾āāļø. I posted links from health publications and opinions written by scholars about racial violence and itās effect on Black people. Only racial bias would describe it as rhetoric and not research. |
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Sept 19, 2020 11:32:22 GMT
amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/sep/17/critics-condemn-trumps-rewrite-of-americas-legacy-of-racism-in-dc-speechThe president, who called curriculum on race ātoxic propaganda, an ideological poison that, if not removed, will dissolve the civic bondsā, continued his administrationās efforts to restrict the telling of American history in schools to erase a legacy of racism, genocide and imperialism. The president recently threatened to cut funding to California schools that teach the 1619 Project. Trump has already cracked down on anti-racism training sessions in federal agencies. He also argued that Americaās founding āset in motion the unstoppable chain of events that abolished slavery, secured civil rights, defeated communism and fascism and built the most fair, equal and prosperous nation in human historyā. But he did not mention the 246 years of slavery in America, including the 89 years it was allowed to continue after the colonies declared independence from England. Nor did the president acknowledge the ongoing fight against racial injustice and police brutality, which has prompted months of protests this year.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2020 14:08:26 GMT
Both. Also, I think we need to learn the *origins* and reasons of the disparities between our communities and acknowledge that the Black community has been systematically set up to fail - from. the. very. beginning. Maybe that fits under advocacy, but I don't think we can get anywhere until people figure that part out. ETA: As a white person, it feels a little presumptuous for me to tell what black people need. We're in this situation largely because white people have always been the ones to decide what black people need. A-#$(*#$(*ING- MEN! If I hear one more person say "But people can succeed NOW!" Oh, FFS! Yes. Let's imagine a white person starts a 500 yard dash on the 400 yard line and a black person starts on the starting block. But, yeah, everyone can run NOW - so just run black person!!! |
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Sept 19, 2020 14:28:53 GMT
Both. Also, I think we need to learn the *origins* and reasons of the disparities between our communities and acknowledge that the Black community has been systematically set up to fail - from. the. very. beginning. Maybe that fits under advocacy, but I don't think we can get anywhere until people figure that part out. ETA: As a white person, it feels a little presumptuous for me to tell what black people need. We're in this situation largely because white people have always been the ones to decide what black people need.Ā A-#$(*#$(*ING- MEN! If I hear one more person say "But people can succeed NOW!" Oh, FFS! Yes. Let's imagine a white person starts a 500 yard dash on the 400 yard line and a black person starts on the starting block. But, yeah, everyone can run NOWĀ - so just run black person!!! Believe it or not many Black people have a hard time with this too. Respectability politics will have me believe that because Iāve experienced a measure of success any black person who hasnāt simply didnāt work āas hardā as me. Here is a good tool for learning the origins of injustice and how they look very much like today. calendar.eji.org/racial-injustice/sep/19 |
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Jan 23, 2021 19:12:23 GMT
www.sandiegouniontribune.com/opinion/commentary/story/2021-01-15/opinion-reparations-moral-constitution-african-americans?_amp=trueRecent images of the Confederate flag being waved inside the Capitol building by insurrectionists who support President Donald Trump demonstrate that America has yet to confront its āoriginal sin.ā We urge President-elect Joe Bidenās new administration to follow Californiaās example and create a national commission to study reparations for slavery. This would not be the first time that the United States studied reparations. The United States has previously created commissions and boards to study and compensate victims of the Holocaust and Japanese internment camps as well as Native Americans. These three historic examples of reparations can help us understand how we may begin to confront the United Statesā āoriginal sin.ā
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Jan 23, 2021 19:18:34 GMT
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Post by SockMonkey on Jan 23, 2021 23:02:42 GMT
Discuss racism openly
Find out how slavery, the civil war, and Jim Crow are being taught in your school district. Advocate that it is taught correctly.This one has been particularly challenging in my district lately. Not because of our teachers or our admin; most of our staff (teachers AND admin) is working hard to counteract the traditional white-centric/white-supremacist narratives that have been so prevalent in education. Parents observing lessons remotely are BIG mad that we are discussing racism with students (including in conjunction with reading To Kill a Mockingbird, a decidedly NOT anti-racist book written by a white woman 60 years ago). They're mad we have prioritized equity and diversity, filing FOIA requests for any emails that contain BLM/Black Lives Matter. I guess their counterargument is that Black lives don't matter? It's fucking exhausting as a white person trying to effect change, and I can "opt out" any time because I'm white; the fact that Black women especially have to do so much lifting is unconscionable.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2021 23:06:33 GMT
Discuss racism openly
Find out how slavery, the civil war, and Jim Crow are being taught in your school district. Advocate that it is taught correctly.This one has been particularly challenging in my district lately. Not because of our teachers or our admin; most of our staff (teachers AND admin) is working hard to counteract the traditional white-centric/white-supremacist narratives that have been so prevalent in education.Ā Parents observing lessons remotely are BIG mad that we are discussing racism with students (including in conjunction with reading To Kill a Mockingbird, a decidedly NOT anti-racist book written by a white woman 60 years ago). They're mad we have prioritized equity and diversity, filing FOIA requests for any emails that contain BLM/Black Lives Matter. I guess their counterargument is that Black lives don't matter? It's fucking exhausting as a white person trying to effect change, and I can "opt out" any time because I'm white; the fact that Black women especially have to do so much lifting is unconscionable.Ā Holy fuck. Wow. What a bunch of butthead parents. |
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Post by SockMonkey on Jan 23, 2021 23:09:38 GMT
Discuss racism openly
Find out how slavery, the civil war, and Jim Crow are being taught in your school district. Advocate that it is taught correctly.This one has been particularly challenging in my district lately. Not because of our teachers or our admin; most of our staff (teachers AND admin) is working hard to counteract the traditional white-centric/white-supremacist narratives that have been so prevalent in education. Parents observing lessons remotely are BIG mad that we are discussing racism with students (including in conjunction with reading To Kill a Mockingbird, a decidedly NOT anti-racist book written by a white woman 60 years ago). They're mad we have prioritized equity and diversity, filing FOIA requests for any emails that contain BLM/Black Lives Matter. I guess their counterargument is that Black lives don't matter? It's fucking exhausting as a white person trying to effect change, and I can "opt out" any time because I'm white; the fact that Black women especially have to do so much lifting is unconscionable. Holy fuck. Wow. What a bunch of butthead parents. They've always been there, but because the school has been more vocal and purposeful about anti-bias anti-racist work, they're more vocal, too. |
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Post by peano on Jan 23, 2021 23:23:20 GMT
Read this yesterday and after doing so, I totally get your comment "It's fucking exhausting as a white person trying to effect change, and I can "opt out" any time because I'm white; the fact that Black women especially have to do so much lifting is unconscionable." link |
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