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Post by catmom on Jan 26, 2021 21:39:48 GMT
These are some amazing articles and thoughts, and I'm prepping for an interview so I don't have time to even begin to dive in and do it justice (just preparing you for my imminent post and ghost) but I have some thoughts, which may or may not add anything to the discussion.
From a behavioural science perspective, it is human nature to make decisions from comparisons, and to derive well-being from doing slightly better than others. A well-known example is the choice given to participants to own either a) a 3,000 square foot house but everyone in your neighbourhood has a 4,000 or 5,000 square foot house OR b) a 2,000 square foot house but everyone in your neighbourhood has a 1,500 or smaller house (I don't remember the exact numbers but you get the idea). People will mostly choose the objectively smaller house that makes them comparatively better off than their neighbours. This is important because of last place aversion, which states that it we will actively avoid being in last place in our comparison group. An example of how this plays out is that the people who tend to be the most against increases in minimum wage are those make just above minimum wage, as it reflects a reduction in their relative place in the world which is a threat to their well-being. People who make much more money are not against increases, but not necessarily because they are so liberal, educated, evolved. It's because it doesn't impact their position in the world.
This is one explanation for the type of people who are most likely to be racist (vs not) and why it is so prevalent among women. It's a (immoral and unjust) way to avoid the existential pain of seeing oneself in last place - choose another group to lean down on. None of this is new of course. I think the notion of why people do not oppose the increases in minimum wage is just as important as those who do oppose it, especially if it's the same last place aversion that drives some racism. Just my opinion, but I think this is important when we think of ourselves as liberal anti-racists. Is it really that I have such evolved morality or is it just that black people aren't a lean-down group for me, and it doesn't cost me anything to talk the talk. I think as people who consider ourselves Liberals, this is a question we need to ask ourselves.
This isn't a very developed thought, but women are brought up to be human givers and part of that role is to be enforcers for white patriarchy. If we have human giver syndrome (and I do) we may have a little Aunt Lydia in us, which I suspect is a partial explanation for karens.
Finally, let's not forget that women are just as capable as men to be evil assholes. Society has been entrenched with the belief in white women as victims and this means we get away with just a ton of nonsense and bad behaviour. An example in my area is a woman who went to police claiming that she had been the abused wife of a serial killer, which the police believed because what other explanation could there be? Turns out, hubby only turned into a serial killer after marriage and horrifying video footage made it clear that she was at least an active participant, if not the instigator of the murders.
Which is a winding path to say, human nature + human giver syndrome + women are just as capable of evil as men.
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Jan 26, 2021 22:34:03 GMT
I get wanting to do slightly better than someone else being some human nature theory but I think enslaving Africans rises to levels much greater than making sure someone was beneath you. The treatment was heinous.
When I post studies about black babies dying...refuting, questioning excusing. When Iâve posted studies about white women and reporting rape more refuting questioning excusing personal attacks When I post a study about how police speak to black people during traffic stops again more refuting excusing and personal attacks Same for the studies about how girls are treating in school environments đ¤ˇđžââď¸
I think the low man on the totem pole thing doesnât explain away how white women were able to behave in the way that they did. Like not at all. That level of hate doesnât really go hand in hand with any human nature argument if you ask me. I think figuring that out would lead us to understanding the complicity of todays white women. Like Toni Morrison said examining what enslaving Africans did to the psyche of white people is a study that needs conducting.
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Post by SockMonkey on Jan 26, 2021 22:36:08 GMT
Would you unpack this for me. I do not understand what you are talking about? I'm using a term (I believe originally) coined by Dr. Carol Anderson, who wrote "White Rage: The Unspoken Truth of our Racial Divide." www.professorcarolanderson.org/white-rageEssentially, white rage is the reaction to any action taken by traditionally marginalized groups, and especially by Black Americans, within a white dominant culture. My comment related to the reaction of the white parents in the community against equity and diversity efforts: "Within days, outraged parents â most of them white â formed a political action committee and began packing school board meetings to voice their strong opposition. Some denounced the diversity plan as âMarxistâ and âleftist indoctrinationâ designed to âfix a problem that doesnât exist.â The opponents said they, too, wanted all students to feel safe at Carroll, but they argued that the district's plan would instead create âdiversity policeâ and amounted to âreverse racismâ against white children."I higly recommend Dr. Anderson's book, as it illustrates a number of historical examples of white rage in action, including the election of President Obama.
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Jan 26, 2021 22:37:14 GMT
She thought you were calling her out and got a bit worried is all.
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Post by SockMonkey on Jan 26, 2021 23:12:29 GMT
She thought you were calling her out and got a bit worried is all. Perhaps, but I should have included that info in my post originally anyway, because I should be citing Black women!
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Jan 26, 2021 23:39:26 GMT
I invite anyone who believes I have a savior complex to place me on ignore and never engage with me. I also invite being called out whenever I attack someone social justice muscle and say their activism isnât enough. Be sure it isnât white guilt at play and use the quote feature. Link the thread too. OlanAs always you will find that I do not pussyfoot around an issue. This is very high stakes for me. It was when I started my first âblack issuesâ thread and changed the way I participated here. Acknowledge the work that needs to be done or at the very least stop personally attacking me when I point out how long weâve got to go. Look at this very thread as a barometer for progress.
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Jan 26, 2021 23:59:33 GMT
How much time could one possibly need to own having passed off historically inaccurate information as fact? This a 2 page thread from August 2020. You donât have to sift through many responses to see the flow the dialogue took. There was no savior complex or even insistence you do the work in fact I did all the leg work for you. Graciously admitting you were wrong should have happened at time. Even a like would be acknowledgement. Instead in January 2021 you tell me I have a savior complex and am a bit much. You go even further and say you can educate yourself without my help. Totally unprompted by the way. In 2018 I posted scientific information about the physiological damage Black people go through watching one another experience racial violence. Itâs conditioning and I stand by that statement. If peano wants to address anything letâs address that! What was rhetoric and what was reality? Who decides? What do you think my mission was in 2018? When you say I am doing it no favors, what did you mean? What could have happened if peas were receptive regardless of how little they liked Olan As Iâve said I am committed to ensuring peas stand by the words they type. Look at the responses and the way people spoke to me. Look at o say the last year and then back to how urgent my calls to action were beginning in 2016.  Savior complex? Ummm for my own black ass life. I urged everyone to start looking for ways to become more anti racist before it was trending. If magic shaving powder became a pea thing why couldnât white women deeply invested in ending racism become a thing too? FTR She started another thread. Her apology was very white women-esque. If you take offense to that I donât know what to tell ya. And she got a standing ovation. A soliloquy with no regard for harm caused. A blame game with no proof. Those questions I asked? It was soliloquy so answering them didnât fit the theme. A utterly half assed apology painting me to be this horrible undeserving Black woman who makes you jump and then tells you didnât jump high enough. That way someone can say she took the high road by even offering an apology. Itâs like no one gets it. And when you do the shift will be apparent. Black people have been in a constant loop of mistreatment and you guys are acting like weâve got all the time in the world to fix this. People are dying. I just donât get it.
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Post by catmom on Jan 27, 2021 0:02:54 GMT
I get wanting to do slightly better than someone else being some human nature theory but I think enslaving Africans rises to levels much greater than making sure someone was beneath you. The treatment was heinous. When I post studies about black babies dying...refuting, questioning excusing. When Iâve posted studies about white women and reporting rape more refuting questioning excusing personal attacks When I post a study about how police speak to black people during traffic stops again more refuting excusing and personal attacks Same for the studies about how girls are treating in school environments đ¤ˇđžââď¸ I think the low man on the totem pole thing doesnât explain away how white women were able to behave in the way that they did. Like not at all. That level of hate doesnât really go hand in hand with any human nature argument if you ask me. I think figuring that out would lead us to understanding the complicity of todays white women. Like Toni Morrison said examining what enslaving Africans did to the psyche of white people is a study that needs conducting. I agree. I don't have an answer, but I completely agree.
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Post by peano on Jan 27, 2021 0:36:38 GMT
Would you unpack this for me. I do not understand what you are talking about? I'm using a term (I believe originally) coined by Dr. Carol Anderson, who wrote "White Rage: The Unspoken Truth of our Racial Divide." www.professorcarolanderson.org/white-rageEssentially, white rage is the reaction to any action taken by traditionally marginalized groups, and especially by Black Americans, within a white dominant culture. My comment related to the reaction of the white parents in the community against equity and diversity efforts: "Within days, outraged parents â most of them white â formed a political action committee and began packing school board meetings to voice their strong opposition. Some denounced the diversity plan as âMarxistâ and âleftist indoctrinationâ designed to âfix a problem that doesnât exist.â The opponents said they, too, wanted all students to feel safe at Carroll, but they argued that the district's plan would instead create âdiversity policeâ and amounted to âreverse racismâ against white children."I higly recommend Dr. Anderson's book, as it illustrates a number of historical examples of white rage in action, including the election of President Obama. Ohhhhh, just like this article I posted on my Facebook wall on Friday, with the comment "My level of frustration when reading this is so off the charts, that I can't EVEN imagine what this is like for POC. And then to know it happens over and over and over..." And also posted on this thread page 1. Thanks for the recommendation.
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Post by peano on Jan 27, 2021 0:39:24 GMT
Peace be with you, Olan.
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Jan 27, 2021 1:19:32 GMT
May truth and personal responsibility dwell in you.
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Mar 16, 2021 13:46:47 GMT
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Apr 9, 2021 13:14:59 GMT
I think my idea of the human shield isnât far from this idea. Walk in front of me though. My body isnât safe. We have to acknowledge that. If I had a white woman advocating for me and insisting I get the same treatment she does shit would have changed for me some time ago. Imagine what would have happened if white women spoke up during slavery and said no to at least splitting up families and raping women. Slavery still went on but those things that make my stomach turn as a woman...I really canât see how white women allowed that to go down. I think white women are again being tasked with some hard choices and every time they decide to continue enjoying the comforts of privilege. When Tamir Rice died that should have been a call to at least take a look at how black communities were being policed. When I started the threads about police brutality everyone balked/complained ask why all I brought up were issues of race. Peas even agreed that if I was mistreated by police it would be because of something I said or did and not the propensity of police to bring harm/death to black women. That was the pea response just a few years ago. đ¤ˇđžââď¸When Black people revolt it shouldnât have come from left field. We are tired. Lay your body on the line for me in the same way my ancestors fed your ancestors. There is most definitely a debt here. The idea that black people pay taxes in counties where police departments have long standing histories of brutalizing communities is crazy to me. Blowing them up even! So while Iâm certain Iâm owed reparations Iâd settle for white people dismantling racist systems without my help and a couple decades of not funding my own mistreatment. White women had very little power on their own at that time.  Perhaps they might try to influence their husbands but more often than not they would have been told to ga back to managing the household. If you are a pea who loves âcorrectingâ me hows about you spread the love.
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Aug 14, 2022 13:27:23 GMT
This bump means my older thread /topic moves to the top of the thread list. You have to click Olan to see my responses but you wonât find all the woke teacher threads that way. Indignant+revisionist.
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Post by catmom on Aug 14, 2022 13:52:19 GMT
Hey Olan glad to see you back!
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