Deleted
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Nov 24, 2024 13:49:53 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2020 23:25:23 GMT
The Atlantic just released a new article.. link“Trump: Americans Who Died in War Are ‘Losers’ and ‘Suckers’From the article “The president has repeatedly disparaged the intelligence of service members, and asked that wounded veterans be kept out of military parades, multiple sources tell The Atlantic. When President Donald Trump canceled a visit to the Aisne-Marne American Cemetery near Paris in 2018, he blamed rain for the last-minute decision, saying that “the helicopter couldn’t fly” and that the Secret Service wouldn’t drive him there. Neither claim was true. Trump rejected the idea of the visit because he feared his hair would become disheveled in the rain, and because he did not believe it important to honor American war dead, according to four people with firsthand knowledge of the discussion that day. In a conversation with senior staff members on the morning of the scheduled visit, Trump said, “Why should I go to that cemetery? It’s filled with losers.” In a separate conversation on the same trip, Trump referred to the more than 1,800 marines who lost their lives at Belleau Wood as “suckers” for getting killed.
Belleau Wood is a consequential battle in American history, and the ground on which it was fought is venerated by the Marine Corps. America and its allies stopped the German advance toward Paris there in the spring of 1918. But Trump, on that same trip, asked aides, “Who were the good guys in this war?” He also said that he didn’t understand why the United States would intervene on the side of the Allies. Trump’s understanding of concepts such as patriotism, service, and sacrifice have interested me since he expressed contempt for the war record of the late Senator John McCain, who spent more than five years as a prisoner of the North Vietnamese. “He’s not a war hero,” Trump said in 2015 while running for the Republican nomination for president. “I like people who weren’t captured.” There was no precedent in American politics for the expression of this sort of contempt, but the performatively patriotic Trump did no damage to his candidacy by attacking McCain in this manner. Nor did he set his campaign back by attacking the parents of Humayun Khan, an Army captain who was killed in Iraq in 2004.Trump remained fixated on McCain, one of the few prominent Republicans to continue criticizing him after he won the nomination. When McCain died, in August 2018, Trump told his senior staff, according to three sources with direct knowledge of this event, “We’re not going to support that loser’s funeral,” and he became furious, according to witnesses, when he saw flags lowered to half-staff. “What the fuck are we doing that for? Guy was a fucking loser,” the president told aides. Trump was not invited to McCain’s funeral. (These sources, and others quoted in this article, spoke on condition of anonymity. The White House did not return earlier calls for comment, but Alyssa Farah, a White House spokesperson, emailed me this statement shortly after this story was posted: “This report is false. President Trump holds the military in the highest regard. He’s demonstrated his commitment to them at every turn: delivering on his promise to give our troops a much needed pay raise, increasing military spending, signing critical veterans reforms, and supporting military spouses. This has no basis in fact.”) Trump’s understanding of heroism has not evolved since he became president. According to sources with knowledge of the president’s views, he seems to genuinely not understand why Americans treat former prisoners of war with respect. Nor does he understand why pilots who are shot down in combat are honored by the military. On at least two occasions since becoming president, according to three sources with direct knowledge of his views, Trump referred to former President George H. W. Bush as a “loser” for being shot down by the Japanese as a Navy pilot in World War II. (Bush escaped capture, but eight other men shot down during the same mission were caught, tortured, and executed by Japanese soldiers.)When lashing out at critics, Trump often reaches for illogical and corrosive insults, and members of the Bush family have publicly opposed him. But his cynicism about service and heroism extends even to the World War I dead buried outside Paris—people who were killed more than a quarter century before he was born. Trump finds the notion of military service difficult to understand, and the idea of volunteering to serve especially incomprehensible. (The president did not serve in the military; he received a medical deferment from the draft during the Vietnam War because of the alleged presence of bone spurs in his feet. In the 1990s, Trump said his efforts to avoid contracting sexually transmitted diseases constituted his “personal Vietnam.”) On Memorial Day 2017, Trump visited Arlington National Cemetery, a short drive from the White House. He was accompanied on this visit by John Kelly, who was then the secretary of homeland security, and who would, a short time later, be named the White House chief of staff. The two men were set to visit Section 60, the 14-acre area of the cemetery that is the burial ground for those killed in America’s most recent wars. Kelly’s son Robert is buried in Section 60. A first lieutenant in the Marine Corps, Robert Kelly was killed in 2010 in Afghanistan. He was 29. Trump was meant, on this visit, to join John Kelly in paying respects at his son’s grave, and to comfort the families of other fallen service members. But according to sources with knowledge of this visit, Trump, while standing by Robert Kelly’s grave, turned directly to his father and said, “I don’t get it. What was in it for them?” Kelly (who declined to comment for this story) initially believed, people close to him said, that Trump was making a ham-handed reference to the selflessness of America’s all-volunteer force. But later he came to realize that Trump simply does not understand non-transactional life choices. “ He can’t fathom the idea of doing something for someone other than himself,” one of Kelly’s friends, a retired four-star general, told me. “He just thinks that anyone who does anything when there’s no direct personal gain to be had is a sucker. There’s no money in serving the nation.” Kelly’s friend went on to say, “Trump can’t imagine anyone else’s pain. That’s why he would say this to the father of a fallen marine on Memorial Day in the cemetery where he’s buried.”I’ve asked numerous general officers over the past year for their analysis of Trump’s seeming contempt for military service. They offer a number of explanations. Some of his cynicism is rooted in frustration, they say. Trump, unlike previous presidents, tends to believe that the military, like other departments of the federal government, is beholden only to him, and not the Constitution. Many senior officers have expressed worry about Trump’s understanding of the rules governing the use of the armed forces. This issue came to a head in early June, during demonstrations in Washington, D.C., in response to police killings of Black people. James Mattis, the retired Marine general and former secretary of defense, lambasted Trump at the time for ordering law-enforcement officers to forcibly clear protesters from Lafayette Square, and for using soldiers as props: “When I joined the military, some 50 years ago, I swore an oath to support and defend the Constitution,” Mattis wrote. “Never did I dream that troops taking that same oath would be ordered under any circumstance to violate the Constitutional rights of their fellow citizens—much less to provide a bizarre photo op for the elected commander-in-chief, with military leadership standing alongside.” Another explanation is more quotidian, and aligns with a broader understanding of Trump’s material-focused worldview. The president believes that nothing is worth doing without the promise of monetary payback, and that talented people who don’t pursue riches are “losers.” (According to eyewitnesses, after a White House briefing given by the then-chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, General Joe Dunford, Trump turned to aides and said, “That guy is smart. Why did he join the military?”) Yet another, related, explanation concerns what appears to be Trump’s pathological fear of appearing to look like a “sucker” himself. His capacious definition of sucker includes those who lose their lives in service to their country, as well as those who are taken prisoner, or are wounded in battle. “He has a lot of fear,” one officer with firsthand knowledge of Trump’s views said. “He doesn’t see the heroism in fighting.” Several observers told me that Trump is deeply anxious about dying or being disfigured, and this worry manifests itself as disgust for those who have suffered. Trump recently claimed that he has received the bodies of slain service members “many, many” times, but in fact he has traveled to Dover Air Force Base, the transfer point for the remains of fallen service members, only four times since becoming president. In another incident, Trump falsely claimed that he had called “virtually all” of the families of service members who had died during his term, then began rush-shipping condolence letters when families said the president was not telling the truth. Trump has been, for the duration of his presidency, fixated on staging military parades, but only of a certain sort. In a 2018 White House planning meeting for such an event, Trump asked his staff not to include wounded veterans, on grounds that spectators would feel uncomfortable in the presence of amputees. “Nobody wants to see that,” he said.”We’ve all seen trump struggle showing any sort of empathy toward others. We’ve seen how money drives the decisions he makes as president. I’m not surprised by anything in this article because of the behavior by trump that we have witnessed these past 3+ years. |
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stittsygirl
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,613 
Location: In the leaves and rain.
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Post by stittsygirl on Sept 3, 2020 23:34:59 GMT
Knowing how he treated John McCain I believe every word of this 😡.
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Sarah*H
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,030
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Post by Sarah*H on Sept 3, 2020 23:36:10 GMT
There is no bottom.
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Post by Eddie-n-Harley on Sept 3, 2020 23:40:07 GMT
Siiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiigh.
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Post by scrapsotime on Sept 3, 2020 23:43:12 GMT
What do you expect from a draft dodger?
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Deleted
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Nov 24, 2024 13:49:53 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2020 23:44:13 GMT
Unfortunately, the people that need to read this won't or will blow it off. For the rest of us, it's nothing new.
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paget
Drama Llama
Posts: 7,117
Jun 25, 2014 21:16:39 GMT
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Post by paget on Sept 3, 2020 23:47:56 GMT
Ok, you can’t believe everything you read (meaning I skimmed it and didn’t search the source, etc) but the very fact that it is entirely possible and in character for him to say something like this is just beyond disgusting. So whether he said it or not, he is gross and I am hoping our country dumps the trash in November. :::crosses finger really hard:::
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naby64
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,423
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Post by naby64 on Sept 3, 2020 23:50:25 GMT
As a mom to a sailor, I don't know how much madder I can get with that man but this has me having heart palpitations. I have to quit reading anything more on him.
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Post by crazy4scraps on Sept 3, 2020 23:55:49 GMT
He is a vile, disgusting piece of crap.
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Sept 3, 2020 23:56:01 GMT
That was physically painful to read. It took me a while to finish it! My dt supporting 19 yr old DGS is presently in Army Boot camp. I could only wish his mother would read this! As a mom to a sailor, I don't know how much madder I can get with that man but this has me having heart palpitations. I have to quit reading anything more on him. This was a physical gut punch! naby64 ((((((((((((((((((((((HUGS))))))))))))))))))))) |
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Sarah*H
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,030
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Post by Sarah*H on Sept 4, 2020 0:10:05 GMT
Ok, you can’t believe everything you read (meaning I skimmed it and didn’t search the source, etc) but the very fact that it is entirely possible and in character for him to say something like this is just beyond disgusting. So whether he said it or not, he is gross and I am hoping our country dumps the trash in November. :::crosses finger really hard::: Four separate independent sources for the story and confirmed by a senior defense dept. official tonight. |
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Sept 4, 2020 0:20:17 GMT
It just makes me angrier as I think about it. My uncle never came home from WWII. Oh, most of him was found. He was buried in New Guinea, then moved to Manila, maybe more along to way, but we do know he is in Manila now. They asked my grandmother if she wanted him brought home. She said he had already been moved too many times.
I accidently found his name on a large wall plaque in the town hall where he lived and I grew up. I never knew it was there, she never told us. She never talked about him much. He was her 6'6" baby, youngest of four.
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casii
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,525
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Post by casii on Sept 4, 2020 0:21:53 GMT
It's been confirmed.
Fuck Trump.
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Sept 4, 2020 0:25:04 GMT
Well we know for sure how he treated John McCain.
His former best friend Lyin' Lindsey is way up dt's butt!
WE need to support Jamie Harrison in SC. He is running a very good race, but it is up hill!
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used2scrap
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,097
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Post by used2scrap on Sept 4, 2020 1:12:50 GMT
Sadly a whole lot of people simply will not care.
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luckyjune
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,687
Location: In the rainy, rainy WA
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Post by luckyjune on Sept 4, 2020 1:19:29 GMT
It started when he made fun of the reporter with CP. I remember thinking to myself, "That's it! He's done for! You just don't make fun of people who struggle with a disability and survive an election."
Each time something so weird you think you are reading The Onion happens, I say the same thing: "This will be it. This will be the tipping point.
He hasn't said a word about the bounty on soldiers' heads. And now this article, confirmed. How many MAGA hat wearing supporters are veterans? How many of them lost a dad or brother or friend in a war? How many of them themselves came home with injuries? Will this finally be the tipping point?
I'm not sure why I even ask anymore.
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Deleted
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Nov 24, 2024 13:49:53 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2020 1:22:54 GMT
James LaPorta of AP..
”A senior Defense Department official I just spoke with confirmed this story by @jeffreygoldberg in its entirety. Especially the grafs about the late Sen. John McCain and former Marine Gen. John Kelly, President @realdonaldtrump former chief of staff.”
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MaryMary
Pearl Clutcher
Lazy
Posts: 2,976
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Post by MaryMary on Sept 4, 2020 1:33:22 GMT
It started when he made fun of the reporter with CP. I remember thinking to myself, "That's it! He's done for! You just don't make fun of people who struggle with a disability and survive an election." Each time something so weird you think you are reading The Onion happens, I say the same thing: "This will be it. This will be the tipping point. He hasn't said a word about the bounty on soldiers' heads. And now this article, confirmed. How many MAGA hat wearing supporters are veterans? How many of them lost a dad or brother or friend in a war? How many of them themselves came home with injuries? Will this finally be the tipping point? I'm not sure why I even ask anymore. SAAAAAAAAME. I’m convinced that he is right... he could literally shoot someone and his supporters still won’t care as long as it’s someone they hate. He will be their hero. |
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Sept 4, 2020 1:39:54 GMT
Support MJ Hegar to beat John Cornyn in Texas!
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Post by Really Red on Sept 4, 2020 1:57:48 GMT
This is exactly what I was thinking. Each new low is so disgraceful  |
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Post by birdgate on Sept 4, 2020 2:18:21 GMT
BUT Nancy's hair appointment!
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purplebee
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,801
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Post by purplebee on Sept 4, 2020 2:56:24 GMT
Psychopath. I despise him.
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LeaP
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,939
Location: Los Angeles, CA where 405 meets 101
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Post by LeaP on Sept 4, 2020 3:55:48 GMT
Trump is a horrible, horrible person. I was unhinged about this before the election.
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Post by aj2hall on Sept 4, 2020 3:59:49 GMT
Just when I think he’s hit rock bottom, he manages to set the bar even lower. His cowardly criticism is inexcusable and his ignorance of history and geography are appalling.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Nov 24, 2024 13:49:53 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2020 4:15:03 GMT
Psychopath. I despise him. He is not the problem. He is the symptom of the deeper and larger problem. His sycophants and toadies and followers and adorers are the real problem. THEY enable him. THEY allow someone like him to squeak by an electoral college vote. THEY are the ruination of a never-perfect but once-sane nation. |
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Post by Legacy Girl on Sept 4, 2020 4:25:34 GMT
Psychopath. I despise him. He is not the problem. He is the symptom of the deeper and larger problem. His sycophants and toadies and followers and adorers are the real problem. THEY enable him. THEY allow someone like him to squeak by an electoral college vote. THEY are the ruination of a never-perfect but once-sane nation. I have to respectfully disagree with you there. He IS a problem. And I know from your previous posts that you agree that his actions are despicable and unconscionable. They are also a problem, but to say that he isn't would seem to absolve him of responsibility, and I just can't go along with that. |
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Nov 24, 2024 13:49:53 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2020 5:08:25 GMT
trump’s response..
”I was never a big fan of John McCain, disagreed with him on many things including ridiculous endless wars and the lack of success he had in dealing with the VA and our great Vets, but the lowering of our Nations American Flags, and the first class funeral he was given by our....”
”..Country, had to be approved by me, as President, & I did so without hesitation or complaint. Quite the contrary, I felt it was well deserved. I even sent Air Force One to bring his body, in casket, from Arizona to Washington. It was my honor to do so. Also, I never called..”
”....John a loser and swear on whatever, or whoever, I was asked to swear on, that I never called our great fallen soldiers anything other than HEROES. This is more made up Fake News given by disgusting & jealous failures in a disgraceful attempt to influence the 2020 Election!”
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Deleted
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Nov 24, 2024 13:49:53 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2020 5:23:46 GMT
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Post by evnimom on Sept 4, 2020 11:44:19 GMT
Oh but I bet trump never knelt during the national anthem.  |
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Nov 24, 2024 13:49:53 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2020 11:53:29 GMT
reposted from reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/samharris/comments/im6g6z/trump_americans_who_died_in_war_are_losers_and/
Ok, so maybe Trump did say McCain was a loser, but this Atlantic article with its unnamed sources claiming he called dead soldiers losers is clearly fake right? I mean, the McCain thing was personal, what other possible evidence is there for Trump's disdain for the military? Of course, I mean besides:
• In May 2020, the White House ended National Guard deployments one day before they could claim benefits
• The Trump admin seized 5 million masks intended for VA hospitals. Kushner distributes these masks to private entities for a fee, who then sells the masks to the government
• Trump fired the captain of the USS Theodore Roosevelt after he warned superiors that COVID19 was spreading among his crew. The virus subsequently spread amongst the crew.
• After Iran's retaliatory strike, 109 US troops suffered brain injuries. Trump dismissed these as "headaches"
• On July 20, 2017, in room 2E924 of the Pentagon, Trump told a room full of Generals, "You’re a bunch of dopes and babies"
• Pardoned multiple war criminals, which stomped on long standing military values, discipline, and command.
• Trump mocked Lt. Col. Vindman for his rank and uniform. He threatened said purple heart officer, resulting in the Army providing him protection
• Trump’s Chief of Staff worked—in secret—to deny comprehensive health coverage to Vietnam Vets who suffered from Agent Orange.
• There is a facility in Tijuana for US veterans that Trump deported. Wounded war vet, Sen Duckworth (D) marked Veterans Day 2019 by visiting this facility
• Russia took control of the main U.S. military facility in Syria abandoned on Trump’s orders. Russia now owns the airstrip we built
• On Oct 7, 2019, Trump abruptly withdrew support from America's allies in Syria after a phone call with Turkey's president (Erdogan). Turkey subsequently bombed US Special Forces.
• In Sept 2019, he made an Air Force cargo crew, flying from the U.S. to Kuwait stop in Scotland (where there's no U.S. base) to refuel at a commercial airport (where it costs more), so they could stay overnight at a Trump property (which isn't close to the airport). Trump’s golf courses are losing money, so he's forcing the military to pay for 5-star nights there.
• In Sept, 2019, Pentagon pulled funds for military schools, military housing funds, and daycare to pay for Trump's border wall.
• In Aug, 2019, emails revealed that three of Trump's Mar-a-Lago pals, who are now running Veterans Affairs, are rampant with meddling. "They had no experience in veterans affairs (none of them even served in the military) nor underwent any kind of approval process to serve as de facto managers. Yet, with Trump’s approval, they directed actions and criticized operations without any oversight. They wasted valuable staff time in hundreds of pages of communications and meetings, emails show. Emails reveal disdainful attitudes within the department to the trio’s meddling."
• Veterans graves will be "dug up" for the border wall, after Trump instructed aides to seize private property. Trump told officials he would pardon them if they break the law by illegally seizing property
• Children of deployed US troops are no longer guaranteed citizenship. This includes US troops posted abroad for years at a time (August 28, 2019)
• On Aug 2, 2019, Trump requisitioned military retirement funds towards border wall
• On July 31, 2019, Trump ordered the Navy rescind medals to prosecutors who were prosecuted war criminals
• Trump denied a U.S. Marine of 6 years entry into the United States for his citizenship interview (Reported July 17, 2019)
• In June, 2019, Trump sent troops to the border to paint the fence for a better "aesthetic appearance"
• Trump purged 200,000 vets' healthcare applications (due to known administrative errors within VA’s enrollment system) (reported on May 13, 2019)
• Trump deported a spouse of fallen Army soldier killed in Afghanistan, leaving their daughter parentless (April 16, 2019)
• Between 12/22/2018, and 1/25/2019, Trump refused to sign his party's funding bill, which shut down the government, forcing the Coast Guard to go without pay, which made service members rely on food pantries. However, his appointees got a $10,000 pay raise
• He banned service members from serving based on gender identity (1/22/2019)
• He tried to deport a marine vet who is a U.S.-born citizen (Jan 16, 2019)
• When a man was caught swindling veterans pensions for high-interest “cash advances," Trump's Consumer Financial Protection Bureau fined him $1 (Jan 26, 2019)
• He called a retired general a 'dog' with a 'big, dumb mouth' (Jan 1, 2019)
• He finally visited troops 2 years after taking office, but only after 154 vacation days at his properties (Dec 26, 2018)
• Trump lied to deployed troops that he gave them a 10% raise (12/26/2018). He tried giving the military a raise that was lower than the standard living adjustment. Congress told him that idea wasn't going to work. Then after giving them the raise that Congress made him, he lied about it pretending that it was larger than Obama's. It wasn't.
• He called troops on Thanksgiving and told them he's most thankful for himself (Thanksgiving, 2018)
• He urged Florida to not count deployed military votes (Nov 12, 2018)
• He used troops as a political prop by sending them on a phantom mission to the border and made them miss Thanksgiving with their families (Oct-Dec, 2018)
• He stopped using troops as a political prop immediately after the election. However, the troops remained in muddy camps on the border (Nov 7, 2018)
• Trump doubled the rejection rate for veterans requesting family deportation protections (July 5, 2018)
• Trump deported active-duty spouses (11,800 military families face this problem as of April 2018)
• He forgot a fallen soldier's name (below) during a call to his pregnant widow, then attacked her the next day (Oct 23-24, 2017)
• He said he knows more about ISIS than American generals (Oct 2016)
• On Oct 3, 2016, Trump said vets get PTSD because they aren't strong (note: yes, he said it's 'because they aren't strong.' He didn't say it's 'because they're weak.' This distinction is important because of Snopes)
• Trump attacks Gold Star families: Myeshia Johnson (gold star widow), Khan family (gold star parents) etc. (2016-present)
• Trump sent funds raised from a Jan 2016 veterans benefit to the Donald J Trump Foundation instead of veterans charities (the foundation has since been ordered shut because of fraud) (Jan, 2016)
• Trump said he has "more training militarily than a lot of the guys that go into the military" because he went to a military-style academy (2015 biography)
• Trump said he doesn't consider POWs heroes because they were caught. He said he prefers people who were not caught (July 18, 2015)
• Trump said having unprotected sex was his own personal Vietnam (1998)
• For a decade, Trump sought to kick veterans off of Fifth Avenue because he found them unsightly nuisances outside of Trump Tower. 1991
• Trump dodged the draft 5 times by having a doctor diagnose him with bone spurs.
• No Trump in America has ever served in the military; this spans 5 generations, and every branch of the family tree. In fact, the reason his grandfather immigrated to America was to avoid military service.
But yeah, i'm sure the Atlantic just made the whole thing up for shits and giggles, because everything in there is totally out of character for him.
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